Natadrol blood results!! Now in!*

[halberstram]

We just concluded a Ghenerate study on GH deficient people 7 people went up in values (100-500%) and one person went down.

A single person isn't indicative of anything, but I still scratch my head on what "placebo" you are talking about. It's showing a marked cortisol lowering effect which is great! Unless they can measure androgenic herbs, it's not going to show anything there and test levels remained constant, which is about what you would expect.

Taking 2g of GABA will achieve the same effect, too bad it does nothing.

Are you purposely not reading the part where cortisol fluctuates widely, and that the drop means ABSOLUTELY NOTHING. I knew LG would try to worm their way out of this one by trying to find something positive. All the reps are now latching on the cortisol going down, never mind the fact that cortisol can drop simply from having a better night sleep.

LG is the definition of pathetic.

[weebay]

Just a question. does one blood test speak for it all then?

You're right, one blood test doesn't prove anything. But it is one more piece of evidence against Natadrol being legit.

Natadrol is advertised as being like a PH but with more mild side effects. PCT is still recommended for it. I think LG suggested T-911.

If Natadrol actually works and requires PCT, then why doesn't OP's bloodwork show any changes in his test levels? I don't think I've ever seen someone post Natadrol bloodwork pre-cycle, post-cycle, and post-PCT to demonstrate that there is an actual change. I have seen this for other products, like Hdrol and Mdrol, which Natadrol is supposed to be an alternative to.

[Liftergym33]

I agree but people were told to expect suppression of natural testosterone production hence the recommendation by LG to run (LG's) PCT afterward.

They were told "It can/may".. I seen people run it with out a PCT, I see some that do. If its possible it can sht you down, then its only correct we suggest a mild PCT. It would be unorthodox if we knew it would shut you down and not recommend anything at all. agree?

[Liftergym33]

Taking 2g of GABA will achieve the same effect, too bad it does nothing.

Are you purposely not reading the part where cortisol fluctuates widely, and that the drop means ABSOLUTELY NOTHING. I knew LG would try to worm their way out of this one by trying to find something positive. All the reps are now latching on the cortisol going down, never mind the fact that cortisol can drop simply from having a better night sleep.

LG is the definition of pathetic.

So whats the point of the blood work then i ask?


I'm saying this was never marketed as a test booster. So his test levels didn't drop.. great! this is why we suggest a mild PCT, Is it necessary? I will say its recommend

[Liftergym33]

You're right, one blood test doesn't prove anything. But it is one more piece of evidence against Natadrol being legit.

Natadrol is advertised as being like a PH but with more mild side effects. PCT is still recommended for it. I think LG suggested T-911.

If Natadrol actually works and requires PCT, then why doesn't OP's bloodwork show any changes in his test levels? I don't think I've ever seen someone post Natadrol bloodwork pre-cycle, post-cycle, and post-PCT to demonstrate that there is an actual change. I have seen this for other products, like Hdrol and Mdrol, which Natadrol is supposed to be an alternative to.

I see where your coming from, and trust me I understand your stand on this.. but check this out.. this just came in.. does this mean the Ghenerate and low dose of I-gh-1 works or doesnt work?

Ghenerate + 2 Capsules of IGH-1

Tested 7 subjects that had LOW growth hormone levels - remember this is different than healthy subjects which had an over 4000% increase. These are people who take sub-q GH and wanted an alternative:

Subject 1 - 43% Increase
Pre 615
Post 883

Subject 2 - 32% Increase
Pre 465
Post 614

Subject 3 - 370% Increase
Pre 202
Post 749

Subject 4 - 477% Increase
Pre 331
Post 1580

Subject 5 - 94% Increase
Pre 94
Post 182

Subject 6 - 280% Decrease
Pre 558
Post 198

Subject 7 - 296% Increase
Pre 138
Post 408

[athenrye]

They were told "It can/may".. I seen people run it with out a PCT, I see some that do. If its possible it can sht you down, then its only correct we suggest a mild PCT. It would be unorthodox if we knew it would shut you down and not recommend anything at all. agree?

If there was proof it supressed testosterone then of course I'd agree. I've yet to see any though. I agree this one blood test isn't enough to judge it on but where's the blood tests showing test suppression has occurred in anyone?

[SquirrelMaster0]

I see where your coming from, and trust me I understand your stand on this.. but check this out.. this just came in.. does this mean the Ghenerate and low dose of I-gh-1 works or doesnt work?

Ghenerate + 2 Capsules of IGH-1

Tested 7 subjects that had LOW growth hormone levels - remember this is different than healthy subjects which had an over 4000% increase. These are people who take sub-q GH and wanted an alternative:

Subject 1 - 43% Increase
Pre 615
Post 883

Subject 2 - 32% Increase
Pre 465
Post 614

Subject 3 - 370% Increase
Pre 202
Post 749

Subject 4 - 477% Increase
Pre 331
Post 1580

Subject 5 - 94% Increase
Pre 94
Post 182

Subject 6 - 280% Decrease
Pre 558
Post 198

Subject 7 - 296% Increase
Pre 138
Post 408

Thanks, Ill definitely believe you didn't pull these numbers out of your butt with all the back up you posted to go along with that. I am a believer now.

[Liftergym33]

Fixed

Cleaver...

[Liftergym33]

Thanks, Ill definitely believe you didn't pull these numbers out of your butt with all the back up you posted to go along with that. I am a believer now.

Serioulsy?

[GBROS]

Clever...

Fixed again

[GBROS]

Seriously?

AND again...

[Liftergym33]

Fixed again

You sure are doing allot of fixing!

[kev4me]

So whats the point of the blood work then i ask?


I'm saying this was never marketed as a test booster. So his test levels didn't drop.. great! this is why we suggest a mild PCT, Is it necessary? I will say its recommend

Yeah. But it was marketed as androgenic as methyl test... so when its androgenic as methyl test - there must be a drop in test levels after 4 weeks of use...

where is it?!...

[GBROS]

You sure are doing a lot of fixing!

AND...again? Ok now this is becoming weird. I'll stop

[Liftergym33]

AND...again? Ok now this is becoming weird. I'll stop

Thank you.

[GBROS]

Thank you.

Oh my god! You're improving!

[Billton]

Yeah. But it was marketed as androgenic as methyl test... so when its androgenic as methyl test - there must be a drop in test levels after 4 weeks of use...

where is it?!...

You must remember that a lot of the suppression caused by methyl-test comes from methy-estrogen. Androgenic activity does cause suppression, but not on the same scale as estrogenic activity.

[thebigt2]

ive never tried natadrol. but i enjoy several lg products.

lipo protein-great value
speed v2-when i added 200mg of caffeine fantastic stim
t-911-one of the best libido boosters available.
igh-1/ghenerate-when combined better sleep/recovery.

would i buy natadrol-no.
but this thread would never stop me from using the lg products that i enjoy.

[kev4me]

You must remember that a lot of the suppression caused by methyl-test comes from methy-estrogen. Androgenic activity does cause suppression, but not on the same scale as estrogenic activity.

Right. But: "Androgenic activity does cause suppression" - so when Nata D is an androgenic, there must be supression. In this bloodwork is NO suppression at all...

[Billton]

Right. But: "Androgenic activity does cause suppression" - so when Nata D is an androgenic, there must be supression. In this bloodwork is NO suppression at all...

Yes, there should be some suppression if it is truly androgenic. No argument there. I'm just not saying that it should or shouldn't be as suppressive as methyl-test.

[ACE79]

anyone want 2 bottles of natadrol? ...

Hell ya I do!

Id like to run Natadrol in the furture.


OP, what is your age?

[Liftergym33]

Hell ya I do!

Id like to run Natadrol in the furture.


OP, what is your age?

hes 20

[ZB126]

Are you purposely not reading the part where cortisol fluctuates widely, and that the drop means ABSOLUTELY NOTHING. I knew LG would try to worm their way out of this one by trying to find something positive. All the reps are now latching on the cortisol going down, never mind the fact that cortisol can drop simply from having a better night sleep.

Well hello again, I seem to remember you from somewhere... Obviously this guys interdependent blood test doesn't answer any of the questions that are being asked. Sure cortisol can drop from other factors but christ dude this is some guy doing his own experiment, not LG. Please, blame them for not controlling the OP's cycle and blood tests like a double blind study lol.

We all want to get to the bottom of how effective this is and lots of accusations have flown around, many unfounded. Everyone take a step back and relax. LG presented studies and came out with the product and its very affordable. Many herbal products seem to treat everyone differently so if you are that curious then try it. People who have used the product seem to have mostly good reviews, with most having little to no shutdown. Cool. If you want to buy it, buy it; if not then don't. All this bickering isn't helping the consumer in the end and just confuses them more.

Cortisol can directly influence test levels. Too much cortisol can cause lower T levels. Cissus lowers cortisol and is in natadrol, therefore this is likely attributable to that. How much lowering of T production is being done by T.c. also comes into play--Do the two effects balance each other out at first? Which has a greater effect on the T levels at any given point in administration? This blood test doesn't answer any of that yet everyone is jumping to the conclusions they seem to want to hear.

You're right, one blood test doesn't prove anything. But it is one more piece of evidence against Natadrol being legit.

Natadrol is advertised as being like a PH but with more mild side effects. PCT is still recommended for it. I think LG suggested T-911.

If Natadrol actually works and requires PCT, then why doesn't OP's bloodwork show any changes in his test levels? I don't think I've ever seen someone post Natadrol bloodwork pre-cycle, post-cycle, and post-PCT to demonstrate that there is an actual change. I have seen this for other products, like Hdrol and Mdrol, which Natadrol is supposed to be an alternative to.

If you are taking anything that may be remotely androgenic and is known to be mild, would you rather not do a PCT or would you rather find out you needed it after not having one ready? Yes, natadrol isn't as strong as designer steroids, its a natural supplement that seems to be in line with the industry trend to try to provide legal, safer alternatives to avoid harsh government interventions that hurt the industry. Yes, I've used Hdrol and Natadrol. Yes Hdrol was stronger and certainly shut me down more as well as gave me additional side effects. Natadrol didnt give me any sides and while the gains were milder than Hdrol, there were less sides. Sure superdrol is awesome for packing on muscle... if you can deal with massive shutdown, back pumps and a long and comprehensive PCT and support supplement line up.

Thanks, Ill definitely believe you didn't pull these numbers out of your butt with all the back up you posted to go along with that. I am a believer now.

Why don't we ask all supplement companies for the names, numbers and addresses of the participants in their in house trials? That way we can call and verify its true. lol...

But seriously, clinical trials cost a lot of money and I believe those numbers were from a small early stage exploratory study that is meant to be expanded upon. Would you rather they provided nothing at all?

AND...again? Ok now this is becoming weird. I'll stop

Hello, Lt. Grammar Nazi!

ive never tried natadrol. but i enjoy several lg products.

lipo protein-great value
speed v2-when i added 200mg of caffeine fantastic stim
t-911-one of the best libido boosters available.
igh-1/ghenerate-when combined better sleep/recovery.

would i buy natadrol-no.
but this thread would never stop me from using the lg products that i enjoy.

I like this attitude and I think that more people should take a step back and realize not every product works for everyone and not ever product in a brand's lineup is going to necessarily be as stellar as the next. Plenty of great brands have had some real misses and some once unknown brands or still little known ones have had great hits. Broad generalizations aren't going to help matters, so lets try to keep things in perspective

[GBROS]

Hello, Lt. Grammar Nazi!

Lol good name. I may take it

[dallasmuscles]

brb taking natadrol without nolva

Well hello again, I seem to remember you from somewhere... Obviously this guys interdependent blood test doesn't answer any of the questions that are being asked. Sure cortisol can drop from other factors but christ dude this is some guy doing his own experiment, not LG. Please, blame them for not controlling the OP's cycle and blood tests like a double blind study lol.

We all want to get to the bottom of how effective this is and lots of accusations have flown around, many unfounded. Everyone take a step back and relax. LG presented studies and came out with the product and its very affordable. Many herbal products seem to treat everyone differently so if you are that curious then try it. People who have used the product seem to have mostly good reviews, with most having little to no shutdown. Cool. If you want to buy it, buy it; if not then don't. All this bickering isn't helping the consumer in the end and just confuses them more.

Cortisol can directly influence test levels. Too much cortisol can cause lower T levels. Cissus lowers cortisol and is in natadrol, therefore this is likely attributable to that. How much lowering of T production is being done by T.c. also comes into play--Do the two effects balance each other out at first? Which has a greater effect on the T levels at any given point in administration? This blood test doesn't answer any of that yet everyone is jumping to the conclusions they seem to want to hear.




If you are taking anything that may be remotely androgenic and is known to be mild, would you rather not do a PCT or would you rather find out you needed it after not having one ready? Yes, natadrol isn't as strong as designer steroids, its a natural supplement that seems to be in line with the industry trend to try to provide legal, safer alternatives to avoid harsh government interventions that hurt the industry. Yes, I've used Hdrol and Natadrol. Yes Hdrol was stronger and certainly shut me down more as well as gave me additional side effects. Natadrol didnt give me any sides and while the gains were milder than Hdrol, there were less sides. Sure superdrol is awesome for packing on muscle... if you can deal with massive shutdown, back pumps and a long and comprehensive PCT and support supplement line up.



Why don't we ask all supplement companies for the names, numbers and addresses of the participants in their in house trials? That way we can call and verify its true. lol...

But seriously, clinical trials cost a lot of money and I believe those numbers were from a small early stage exploratory study that is meant to be expanded upon. Would you rather they provided nothing at all?



Hello, Lt. Grammar Nazi!



I like this attitude and I think that more people should take a step back and realize not every product works for everyone and not ever product in a brand's lineup is going to necessarily be as stellar as the next. Plenty of great brands have had some real misses and some once unknown brands or still little known ones have had great hits. Broad generalizations aren't going to help matters, so lets try to keep things in perspective

good phucking post dude

[weebay]

If you want to buy it, buy it; if not then don't. All this bickering isn't helping the consumer in the end and just confuses them more.

I'm going to have to disagree here. Discussion like this is necessary so that consumers can make informed decisions. If I acted solely based on the opinions of company reps and shills I'd be taking Pink Magic and Anabolic Halo right now.

If you are taking anything that may be remotely androgenic and is known to be mild, would you rather not do a PCT or would you rather find out you needed it after not having one ready? Yes, natadrol isn't as strong as designer steroids, its a natural supplement that seems to be in line with the industry trend to try to provide legal, safer alternatives to avoid harsh government interventions that hurt the industry. Yes, I've used Hdrol and Natadrol. Yes Hdrol was stronger and certainly shut me down more as well as gave me additional side effects. Natadrol didnt give me any sides and while the gains were milder than Hdrol, there were less sides. Sure superdrol is awesome for packing on muscle... if you can deal with massive shutdown, back pumps and a long and comprehensive PCT and support supplement line up.

I would agree completely with this if there was any evidence that Natadrol has any androgenic or anabolic properties at all. If it really was a milder version of Hdrol I'd buy more of it. As it stands I'd rather shell out a little extra for some cycle support and nolva/clomid than buy an herbal product that doesn't work.

[CraigMatthew]

good phucking post dude

Agreed.
A good debate is awesome but some of the personal attacks on reps and the company is a little much.

Look forward to the final bloods to see exactly where he ends up.

[ZB126]

I'm going to have to disagree here. Discussion like this is necessary so that consumers can make informed decisions. If I acted solely based on the opinions of company reps and shills I'd be taking Pink Magic and Anabolic Halo right now.

I agree that discussion is necessary, I just think some people are getting a little to heated and losing sight of the point of all this. And I'll be the first to admit that the beta run of PM that I was given did increase my libido. I picked up a presale deal of the final run with the extra two ingredients and not sure what the deal was but it hasn't done the same, that's for sure. Sold the second bottle and the free Prime haha. Anyway, speaking of loosing sight of the point, I just did. So anyway..

I would agree completely with this if there was any evidence that Natadrol has any androgenic or anabolic properties at all. If it really was a milder version of Hdrol I'd buy more of it. As it stands I'd rather shell out a little extra for some cycle support and nolva/clomid than buy an herbal product that doesn't work.

"The plant contains a high amount of Vitamin C, carotine A, anabolic steroidal substance and calcium."

EFFECT OF ClSSUS QUADRANGULAR/S IN ACCELERATING HEALING PROCESS OF EXPERIMENTALLY FRACTURED RADIUS-ULNA OF DOG: A PRELIMINARY STUDY
D.K. DEKA, L.C. LAHON, J. SAIKIA** A. MUKIT***
Departments of Pharmacology_and Toxicology, Surgery and Radiology and Veterinary Pathology, College of Veterinary Science, Assam Agricultural University, Khanapara, Guwahati

Also some good stuff in:
Chopra, S.S. “Studies of Cissus quadrangularis in experimental fracture repair : a histopathological study.” Indian Journal of Medical Research. 64.9 (1976): 1365-8.

The plant stem and aerial part contain the following steroids: beta-sitosterol, d-sitosterol, 20b-hydroxy ecdysone, ecdysterone, Makisterone A, giloinsterol

Singh, S.S. “Chemical and medicinal properties of Tinospora cordifolia.” Indian Journal of Pharmacology. (2003): 83-91

Whose androgenic potentials are addressed in:

Androgenic action of Tinospora cordifolia ethanolic extract in prostate cancer cell line LNCaP, P Kapur, BMJ Pereira, W Wuttke… - Phytomedicine, 2009

But i've lost the fulltext of that one :-\ anyone still at college want to pull it up haha

[halberstram]

I agree that discussion is necessary, I just think some people are getting a little to heated and losing sight of the point of all this. And I'll be the first to admit that the beta run of PM that I was given did increase my libido. I picked up a presale deal of the final run with the extra two ingredients and not sure what the deal was but it hasn't done the same, that's for sure. Sold the second bottle and the free Prime haha. Anyway, speaking of loosing sight of the point, I just did. So anyway..

"The plant contains a high amount of Vitamin C, carotine A, anabolic steroidal substance and calcium."

EFFECT OF ClSSUS QUADRANGULAR/S IN ACCELERATING HEALING PROCESS OF EXPERIMENTALLY FRACTURED RADIUS-ULNA OF DOG: A PRELIMINARY STUDY
D.K. DEKA, L.C. LAHON, J. SAIKIA** A. MUKIT***
Departments of Pharmacology_and Toxicology, Surgery and Radiology and Veterinary Pathology, College of Veterinary Science, Assam Agricultural University, Khanapara, Guwahati

Also some good stuff in:
Chopra, S.S. “Studies of Cissus quadrangularis in experimental fracture repair : a histopathological study.” Indian Journal of Medical Research. 64.9 (1976): 1365-8.

The plant stem and aerial part contain the following steroids: beta-sitosterol, d-sitosterol, 20b-hydroxy ecdysone, ecdysterone, Makisterone A, giloinsterol

Singh, S.S. “Chemical and medicinal properties of Tinospora cordifolia.” Indian Journal of Pharmacology. (2003): 83-91

Whose androgenic potentials are addressed in:

Androgenic action of Tinospora cordifolia ethanolic extract in prostate cancer cell line LNCaP, P Kapur, BMJ Pereira, W Wuttke… - Phytomedicine, 2009

But i've lost the fulltext of that one :-\ anyone still at college want to pull it up haha

This study is worthless btw, it's done on a petri dish in a cancer cell line.

[On Fire]

We should also stop referring to Cissus Quadrangularis as the anabolic compound in Natadrol.

Natadrol's Cissus content isn't even listed (it's in a 550mg prop blend per pill, along with the rest of the product's ingredients), and it's listed as "highly standardized" but doesn't list the % it's standardized to. Highly suspect, is more like it.

For comparison's sake, USP Labs SuperSissus RX (a very popular JOINT supplement on BB.com) contains 800mg of Cissus per cap. Here are the label directions:

As a dietary supplement, take 1-2 capsules with meals. For best results, take 4-5 capsules per day.

For more immediate results, begin with a 14-21 day "loading phase" of three (3) capsules, three times per day with meals, followed by a maintenance phase of three (3) capsules with morning meal and two (2) capsules with last meal of the day.

Now, if you followed the loading phase of SuperCissus RX (and I have), you'd be taking in 7.2grams of Cissus ALONE.

Natadrol dosed at 8 caps per day (this is the dosage I ran, beyond the recommended 4-6 caps daily) only contains 4.4grams of their ENTIRE formulation. Even if you were lucky enough that half of that was actually their listed 'anabolic compound' cissus, that would only be 2.2grams of cissus, each day, and it may be much less than that.

Why aren't people on Cissus joint supports gaining 45 pounds on all their lifts on a per-week basis?

Where there's smoke there's fire, gentlemen. I believe we've been had.