Why won't my squat go up?

[GoJu]

Hi, thread title says it all.

Right now, I'm 5'10 and weigh roughly 190-200lbs and have been doing rippetoes for my squat since I still can't lift 315 for a single I figured I'd do a basic routine, I started at 185lbs and have been adding only 5lbs a session for a while but recently I've been stuck at only 240 for the last several sessions (like the last 6-8 of them) usually at 3x3@240. I figured I would just stick with 240 till I got 3 sets of 5 and increase then but I haven't been able to get to the 3 sets of 5 reps and its quite frustrating. I read all the time that people make extremely fast and easy gains on rippetoes (or any routine for that matter) at my level and I've never seen anyone my size stuck at so low a weight.

I've done several squat routines in the past but nothing seems to have worked, however I'm squatting 'correctly' for the first time with proper flexibility but I still think I should've made faster progress than this.

My sticking point seems to be right at parallel where the bar just stops moving, I've been squatting a lot faster lately but my bounce out of the hole hasn't been propelling me past that sticking point fast enough.

A powerlifter friend of mine suggested my glutes aren't firing properly, could that be the case? I also think my core is weak so I have been doing work like ab pulldowns and ab wheel to try and fix it, anything esle I could do? Should I work the low back more for this sticking point? Should I go on a different routine? I've even stopped oly lifting short of bar work for both lifts so I could focus on the squat and even being fresh doesn't seem to be doing anything.

Sorry for the long read, but any and all help is appreciated.

[boykid28]

Hi, thread title says it all.

Right now, I'm 5'10 and weigh roughly 190-200lbs and have been doing rippetoes for my squat since I still can't lift 315 for a single I figured I'd do a basic routine, I started at 185lbs and have been adding only 5lbs a session for a while but recently I've been stuck at only 240 for the last several sessions (like the last 6-8 of them) usually at 3x3@240. I figured I would just stick with 240 till I got 3 sets of 5 and increase then but I haven't been able to get to the 3 sets of 5 reps and its quite frustrating. I read all the time that people make extremely fast and easy gains on rippetoes (or any routine for that matter) at my level and I've never seen anyone my size stuck at so low a weight.

I've done several squat routines in the past but nothing seems to have worked, however I'm squatting 'correctly' for the first time with proper flexibility but I still think I should've made faster progress than this.

My sticking point seems to be right at parallel where the bar just stops moving, I've been squatting a lot faster lately but my bounce out of the hole hasn't been propelling me past that sticking point fast enough.

A powerlifter friend of mine suggested my glutes aren't firing properly, could that be the case? I also think my core is weak so I have been doing work like ab pulldowns and ab wheel to try and fix it, anything esle I could do? Should I work the low back more for this sticking point? Should I go on a different routine? I've even stopped oly lifting short of bar work for both lifts so I could focus on the squat and even being fresh doesn't seem to be doing anything.

Sorry for the long read, but any and all help is appreciated.

have u tried pause squats. when i first started working out i was squating first and only. i did a whole week of max singles (prolly 3 sesions.every session trying to beat my old max. minimum of 10 sets per workout). then for 3 weeks i would do 10 sets of 3 reps @85%of my max, with 2-3 min rest between sets (best lift out of that week), and atleast 3 sessions per week. i would repeat the cycle next month. i did this for both back squats and fronts squats, and this was my only workout (and exercise for that matter) until i could both back squat and front squat 2x my bodyweight. it took me 4months(september 09- december 09). hope this helps.

[Exane]

I would definitely say work on the lower back, it should help since you put so much strain on it while squatting. And if you don't deadlift, try that. I know that DLing has help me get some serious gains on my squats.

[3rd pull]

he explains how to progress in the book once you stall

[GoJu]

he explains how to progress in the book once you stall

I could reset to 90kg or so but I didn't think the progress would end so quickly so I figured there was something else wrong.

[JeepCreeper]

Have you ever done box squats? They will definitely help with the posterior chain.


http://www.elitefts.com/documents/posterior_chain.htm

http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/schultz22.htm

[GoJu]

Have you ever done box squats? They will definitely help with the posterior chain.


http://www.elitefts.com/documents/posterior_chain.htm

http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/schultz22.htm

Yes, when i was more into powerlifting, but box squats don't help that much with olympic lifting as I need the flexiblity garnered from an actual full/olympic squat and the excessive sitting back in the box squat is somewhat detrimental to what you need in an olympic squat.

[Butterfull]

Do you have any video of your squats that we can look at?

[DougBarger]

One way to kind of "change it up" on your muscles is to find a good weight you can do 10 reps for reasonably easy (but not too easy) and then do 20 reps at that weight in just 1 set.

Sounds crazy, but it really works your muscles good and you'll definitely feel it.

First time I tried it, I could only do 15, but it was enough to shock my quads
and then I went heavy.

I picked up this suggestion from a report and decided to give it a go because
the science behind it is more GH (growth hormone) is released because of the
increased intensity and adds more strength to help you bust through the plateau
next time you go heavy.

The old bb pros call these "20 rep breathers" because this definitely gets you breathing between reps on your way to 20.

Hope this may be what you were looking for and that you bust through your wall.

[BTBAM]

Do you have any vids of your squat?

Perhaps taking a look at them , I could analyze a bit further.

[GoJu]

these are some squats from july when I was doing the bulgarian one rep max for the day almost everyday thing



I squat faster than in this video now though, I've brought my feet out some so I'm more upright as well, I'll get some more recent vids tomorrow

[Squinky]

What's the highest volume you're ever done with the squats?

[someonefat]

your squatting abnormally slow in that video not taking advantage of stretch reflex at all

maybe squat less frequently like once a week? You obviously tried high volume not working as well for you could try less frequent squatting. The Chinese for example don't seem to squat that frequently I believe for some of the lifters.

Tried bring up front squat for awhile and forget about back squat and then go back to bs when you hit pr in front squat?

tried working accessory exercises like say good mornings, pulls, machine squats like hack machine leg press ext-I know machines seems taboo for olympic lifting but they really can target weakness well-

what programs have you done so far for lifting/squatting? Sheiko seems to work well

[sammers62]

I strongly suggest getting on a routine. Most people who are having trouble gaining on a lift, go too intense during their workouts. Going till failure is too much and a lot of people i see doing it, do it every workout.

The Bulgarian way of training, squatting up to a max, is just that UP TO a max, not going to failure, or actually setting a new max. Going to failure/finding a new max every workout is A) too much and B) not what the bulgarians do.

Smolov

Edit: http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showth...hp?p=281358411 read Cracky's post at the bottom.
And if you want to squat olympic, squat olympic, IF you are flexible enough to get down low and not have a butt wink, and if you keep tension in your hamstrings, your glutes will get hit.

[crackyflipside]

The Bulgarian way of training, squatting up to a max, is just that UP TO a max, not going to failure, or actually setting a new max. Going to failure/finding a new max every workout is A) too much and B) not what the bulgarians do.
read Cracky's post at the bottom.

That was an old post. I had stopped training like that when reaching burnout. The Bulgarian method does work if you keep lifting through the burnout phase that takes a few weeks.

I lift with GoJu a lot and I have always felt the problem is technique and not any programming issues. He should get the video and play it in reverse, the way he comes up with the squat is not the way he is going down. They should be the same. Don't start the squat breaking at your knees, start it at your hips, and let your knees move when they need to maintain balance and keep torso up. Again, reverse the video and you will see the right technique to descend in the squat.

[sammers62]

That was an old post. I had stopped training like that when reaching burnout. The Bulgarian method does work if you keep lifting through the burnout phase that takes a few weeks.

I lift with GoJu a lot and I have always felt the problem is technique and not any programming issues. He should get the video and play it in reverse, the way he comes up with the squat is not the way he is going down. They should be the same. Don't start the squat breaking at your knees, start it at your hips, and let your knees move when they need to maintain balance and keep torso up. Again, reverse the video and you will see the right technique to descend in the squat.

Ok i see what you mean.

[crackyflipside]

Feel free to pause it a lot, especially near the start, remember it is just reverse video so the timing will seem extremely weird on the right side.

[GoJu]

Well to be fair this is the only vid I have of me squatting but my form has changed slightly since this vid I am taking more advantage of the stretch reflex now but I found breaking at the hips didn't do it for me and breaking at the knees helped me squat faster and stay tighter.

someonefat - I've tried literally every program under the sun, rippetoes, bill starr, smolov, sheiko, westside, bulgarian, texas method, dinosaur training, soviet weightlifting training, the only one I haven't actually done is the russian squat routine and that's way more volume than what I'm doing now, but I've done alot more in the past.

Though I don't think perfect technique is a must for the squat (as plenty of guys lift big weights without it) when I tried all these routines my form really was subpar by any stretch of the imagination so I think that's why they just weren't helpful.

I've been doing clean grip deads once a week up to a heavy 5 like rippetoe suggests, I occasionally do weighted hypers and mostly have been doing heavy ab pulldowns lately for the core if that helps any. I have been thinking of lowering my frequency latley though.

I'll get a more recent vid up tomorrow see if that helps more.

[3rd pull]

try resetting to 10lbs less than the last weight that you successfully got the set of 5 with. If you are really doing SS then you do 3x5 increasing weight each set to start off with. sets across dont come until later.

[crackyflipside]

Well to be fair this is the only vid I have of me squatting but my form has changed slightly since this vid I am taking more advantage of the stretch reflex now but I found breaking at the hips didn't do it for me and breaking at the knees helped me squat faster and stay tighter.

God dammit Carlos f^cking listen to me for one damn minute. I don't care how much faster or tighter things are, you need to squat with joint angles like the right side of the video. Until you change and do that, you will be stuck squatting 240 forever while everybody else around you is making gains and you are stuck hitting your head against a wall and making another thread next year on what new (or old) program you need to perform to make you stronger. The joint angles you have now when squatting are extremely inefficient. I know you are one of the most stubborn people I have ever met in a gym, still you are the person that introduced me to Oly lifting so I feel a need to always lend you a hand... but it doesn't help if you don't listen.

It was my blind adherence to generalities of technique that work for everybody that got me to a decent squat, not programming. Stop making excuses and fix the technical errors you have in the squat.

[3rd pull]

and the gloves come off...

[GoJu]

Are you sure about that 3rd pull? I thought 3 sets of 5 across was the standard program, I thought going up to one heavy set was bill starr's variation.

God dammit Carlos f^cking listen to me for one damn minute. I don't care how much faster or tighter things are, you need to squat with joint angles like the right side of the video. Until you change and do that, you will be stuck squatting 240 forever while everybody else around you is making gains and you are stuck hitting your head against a wall and making another thread next year on what new (or old) program you need to perform to make you stronger. The joint angles you have now when squatting are extremely inefficient. I know you are one of the most stubborn people I have ever met in a gym, still you are the person that introduced me to Oly lifting so I feel a need to always lend you a hand... but it doesn't help if you don't listen.

It was my blind adherence to generalities of technique that work for everybody that got me to a decent squat, not programming. Stop making excuses and fix the technical errors you have in the squat.

Well first of all I love you too Chris.

Second of all, the way I'm squatting now feels like its what your describing (I think), you'll see in the vid tomorrow.

[3rd pull]

no definitely not. its 3 x 5 pyramiding up, then there are a couple more progressions, then sets across is like the 4th or 5th stage (dont hold me to that number though).

[justroberson]

no definitely not. its 3 x 5 pyramiding up, then there are a couple more progressions, then sets across is like the 4th or 5th stage (dont hold me to that number though).

This information is incorrect. It is 3x5 across. There is no pyramiding in SS, unless you are referring to the very first day in which you find your starting weight.

To OP, you should reset slightly as the book suggests. Then when you stall again, consider doing the light back squats or front squats on the middle day. Probably light back squats because you want to nail the form.

[crackyflipside]

Well I haven't seen you lift in a few months but even if you think it's doing better, watch the joint angles in the right side of the video.

[3rd pull]

"Work sets are the heavy sets that produce the training
effect of the workout. They may be progressive—they may go
up five or ten pounds per set until they are all done—or they
may be done "across," with the same weight for all sets."

That's from practical programing. I've always had success with pyramiding up and then saving the sets across after I can no longer keep pyramiding up to heavier weights. I suppose you can do either one. I actually hadn't looked at the book in about a year and remembered it being pyramiding first, but I guess not. I've used pyramiding then switching to sets across to get to 182.5 at 70. Not fantastic, but not that bad either.

I did go back an check SS too and it does say sets across, though, my mistake.

[GoJu]

Well I haven't seen you lift in a few months but even if you think it's doing better, watch the joint angles in the right side of the video.

Yeah I watched them, I WAS breaking at my hips like the right side when I started my little rippetoe cycle up till 240 and honestly it felt harder than breaking at the knees not easier, but I'll get both on video and see what you guys think.

[nova6868]

box squats don't help that much with olympic lifting as I need the flexiblity garnered from an actual full/olympic squat and the excessive sitting back in the box squat is somewhat detrimental to what you need in an olympic squat.

Definitely agree with this. For me, box squats actually make my olympic squat worse.

And I agree with Cracky when he says:

The problem is technique and not any programming issues. He should get the video and play it in reverse, the way he comes up with the squat is not the way he is going down. They should be the same. Don't start the squat breaking at your knees, start it at your hips, and let your knees move when they need to maintain balance and keep torso up. Again, reverse the video and you will see the right technique to descend in the squat.

That would be my main two tips. Break at the hips first, and stop focusing on your knees. Only move your knees as needed to keep your torso upright.

Also, speed it up to about 3 times the current speed! Seriously.

[science.boi]

What's with all the emphasis on technique? His technique isn't "textbook" but it's not disasterous either. He is staying tight on the way down (though probably coming down too slow and not using the stretch), and so he should still be able to apply force correctly, albeit not as efficiently.

What have your programs been like? What have your warm-ups been like? I need setsxreps, weights used and dates.
Has your bodyweight been increasing, decreasing or staying the same? How long have you been at this bodyweight?

You realise that the gains with rippetoe eventually wear off because you eventually reach a weight that becomes to difficult to recover from 3x a week, and so you need to reduce the high intensity squatting and introduce a light day to facilitate recovery.


What have all the other lifts been like? Not cleans/snatches, but the presses, deadlifts, rows i.e. the slow strength lifts that you have been doing along with the squat? Have they been increasing as well?

[slowman41]

GoJu if you still squat like how you did in that video, then you need to change your form.

you're weight is wayyyy too far forward, and your knees go way too far forward also.

You need to think of "sitting back" like you were to sit down in a chair, and keep your weight back over your heels. Also, speed it up a bit, descent is way too slow.

[edit] whatever Cracky was saying too. Just saw that he also commented on technique (and lol at rant)