5x5 vs. 12,10,8,6 vs. 10,8,6,4

[BruceBruce325]

which rep range is best for mass growth, cutting, strength, etc... please support your statement with a solid reason. thank you

i do 5x5's when im looking to increase strength

i normally do warm up's then 12x10x8 to put on size

i do 4 sets of certain weight till failure to get cut.

[Bobby1291]

Disagree with just this part (rest looked good). When cutting, the general consensus on these boards is heavy weight, high intensity, reps are in dispute and depend on how intense you can go (can do a ton of singles/doubles or 5x5 and call it a day). It's "easier" (aka still sucks but works better) to keep your muscle mass together when you are pushing high intensity compared to burning out a ton of half ass reps.

This. When cutting, it's best to use heavy weight/low reps because since you're at a caloric deficit, it's gonna be hard to keep gaining strength, if at all. So keeping low reps and heavy weight will help keep that strength and muscle that you already gained. Correct me if I'm wrong.

[LCGJR]

2-6 rep sets for strength and mass; 7-12 rep sets for size and aesthetics.

Pretty simple, bro.

[JeremyLeon]

Canada. I think it's because our health care is covered so there is longer waiting. You guys have to pay for it in full (am I right??) which means you get it when you feel like paying for it. That could be completely incorrect I'm totally guessing. I know a girl who potentially tore her ACL in february and only was just able to get an MRI a month ago.

ah i see. yeah u guys have the chillin health care plan... im from New York and if u dont have health insurance, you better have a fat pocket full of cash.. that's terrible tho the girl must have been in such pain :/ . . can u not pay for lets say an MRI? like is it mandatory that the government takes care of the bills or can independantly wealthy people just straight up take care of medical expenses... pretty interesting

I've been doing a 10-8-6-4 pyramid routine with bench press for a while, and getting some pretty good strength gains so far. When I first started my 1RM was at about 210, and after consistently increasing the weight by 5 or 10 lbs each week for about 6 weeks I am at 250. I still haven't hit a plateau, and hope to sucessfully complete my sets at the 255 level tomorrow.....and 260 the following week. (i know the plateau is coming soon)

As for size increase with this routine; it's hard for me to say since I do a wide variety of chest exercises that contribute to that. Overall, I'd say it's a good workout for maintaing endurance and gaining strength.

no question about successfully completing tomorrow bro... you ARE GOING TO DO IT what does it look like tho ie: 10x200, 8x215, 6x230, 4x250? or 10X200, 8X230, 6X250, 4X225 ... i may sound like a dummy but pyramids are triangle shaped im just trying to get the gist of whether this routine goes up in weight and then back down or just from lower to higher weight... plz explain thanks

try doing both..

start with a few warm-up sets with the bar or light weight.

then put weight that u can do explosive 8 times ,then heavy weight 5RM,then deload and do 2sets of explosive 10-12 reps.

by explosive i mean giving the best possible acceleration when pushing pulling and slowing down when going back with bar/dumbell for static tension.
Power is force times velocity,so giving the best possible acceleration you will increase your power(all that matters in the end,aint?)

thats what im doing now

p.s just be careful not to injure urself(warm up properly))

sick advice... but now lemme flip the concept.. what about slow controlled working sets. IE: i did the smolov jr chest for strength (not mass) and each set i was focusing on form and slow speed reps... i get the physics principle but pause reps and slow reps also are effective... what say you on that my friend? assuming the same as most of the other workout principles, switching between high rep low rep explosive and controlled reps is prob the best.. lemme know ur thoughts dude

Disagree with just this part (rest looked good). When cutting, the general consensus on these boards is heavy weight, high intensity, reps are in dispute and depend on how intense you can go (can do a ton of singles/doubles or 5x5 and call it a day). It's "easier" (aka still sucks but works better) to keep your muscle mass together when you are pushing high intensity compared to burning out a ton of half ass reps.

right i find myself dripping sweat when intensely working out.. don't necessarily need to be doing lots and lots just cranking **** out. i feel like there will never be one answer. thanks for ur feed

[ThickAsABrick]

1 star thread

[shainesboostin]

5 reps is better for 5 rep strength.

10 reps is better for 10 rep strength
etc.. S.A.I.D. principle..

For size, 8-12 reps is the better than any other specific range, but all rep ranges still beats 8-12.
http://www.abcbodybuilding.com/SkeletalMuscle.pdf

"-Research has determined muscle hypertrophy to be greatest in the 8-12 repetition range; this is likely due to the combined effects of myofibrillar and sarcoplasmic hypertrophy being greatest at this rep range"

For cutting, it's about losing fat, which is about diet and calories burned, not rep range.

When doing the 12-8 rep range. Say for bench, would you increase, decrease or keep the weight each set?

[JeremyLeon]

i do 5x5's when im looking to increase strength

i normally do warm up's then 12x10x8 to put on size

i do 4 sets of certain weight till failure to get cut.

good generalization, agreed.

This. When cutting, it's best to use heavy weight/low reps because since you're at a caloric deficit, it's gonna be hard to keep gaining strength, if at all. So keeping low reps and heavy weight will help keep that strength and muscle that you already gained. Correct me if I'm wrong.

also agreed

2-6 rep sets for strength and mass; 7-12 rep sets for size and aesthetics.

Pretty simple, bro.

and agreed on this too..



ok ladies and gentlemen
according to the masses:

(this is as averaged out i can get from all the poster's opinions)
CUTTING: Higher Weight -- 4-8 reps
BULKING: Medium to High Weight -- 6-12 reps
StRENGTH: Highest Weight -- 2-6 reps

its funny because before this thread i swear i thought that higher reps were optimal for cutting... glad to have ironed this out.. regardless, WE ALL NEED TO TURN THE F-ING INTENSITY UP 5 NOTCHES

Meat Head Nation
Join the Revolution

[JeremyLeon]

1 star thread

word.. all i gotta say is 5'8'' 215 lbs is beast mode dude.. good ****

When doing the 12-8 rep range. Say for bench, would you increase, decrease or keep the weight each set?

definitely don't stay the same... if you can do 12 reps at 250 on bench say, then you can do higher weight for 6... hands down no questions asked...

[Alabamaman]

To Jeremy:

Thanks for the encouragement, about to go to the gym and knock that out in just a few minutes.

At 255, here's how my pyramid looks.

135 X 10 (warmup)

155 X 10 (first set of pyramind, works like a second warmup, rest 2 min)
180 X 8 (70% of max - rest 2 min)
205 X 6 (80% of max - rest 4 min)
230 X 4+ (90% of max) do as many as you can on this.

So, just look at a chart to calculate your %'s, and you're all set. If done correctly, you will have enough strength to do a few more reps on the first 3 sets, but don't do them. Essentially this workout is designed around working up to that last set and going maximum effort until failure. If you have a spotter (and your joints are feeling up to it) do a few forced reps and/or negatives with that heaviest weight. Give this a workout a try, it got me through a very frustrating plateau and is still working.

[dday39]

And the alternating styles will keep the body guessing and youll be getting both power and size.

Do you honestly believe this? Muscles respond to stimulus. Switching workouts doesn't confuse the muscle.

[JeremyLeon]

To Jeremy:

Thanks for the encouragement, about to go to the gym and knock that out in just a few minutes.

At 255, here's how my pyramid looks.

135 X 10 (warmup)

155 X 10 (first set of pyramind, works like a second warmup, rest 2 min)
180 X 8 (70% of max - rest 2 min)
205 X 6 (80% of max - rest 4 min)
230 X 4+ (90% of max) do as many as you can on this.

So, just look at a chart to calculate your %'s, and you're all set. If done correctly, you will have enough strength to do a few more reps on the first 3 sets, but don't do them. Essentially this workout is designed around working up to that last set and going maximum effort until failure. If you have a spotter (and your joints are feeling up to it) do a few forced reps and/or negatives with that heaviest weight. Give this a workout a try, it got me through a very frustrating plateau and is still working.

word bro my chest/back day is today and im gonna do some pyramid work as well i was just confused with the actual name... because i hear pyramid and think about those big triangle stone buildings in egypt... lol so i assumed pyramid meant low higher highest higher low, ya know what im sayin? i would assume that incremental increases to the highest weight would be "ramping" but who cares i do just this already and im happy with it. hit those weights hard today bro... repped

Do you honestly believe this? Muscles respond to stimulus. Switching workouts doesn't confuse the muscle.

yo as much as your statement is true... stimulus isn't as effective if u keep doing the same thing... say u plateau at 245 on the bench... and u can do this over and over but cant get the weight up higher... well its time to add in a different exercise, to "stimulate" other muscle fibers and encourage growth... a long distance biker like lance armstrong will burn X amount of calories the first time he rides 100 miles.... but if u ride 100 miles over and over again your body isn't as stimulated, thus resulting in higher efficiency but less calories burnt. same thing with muscle growth.

[Maartin77]

I've been doing a 10-8-6-4 pyramid routine with bench press for a while, and getting some pretty good strength gains so far. When I first started my 1RM was at about 210, and after consistently increasing the weight by 5 or 10 lbs each week for about 6 weeks I am at 250. I still haven't hit a plateau, and hope to sucessfully complete my sets at the 255 level tomorrow.....and 260 the following week. (i know the plateau is coming soon)

As for size increase with this routine; it's hard for me to say since I do a wide variety of chest exercises that contribute to that. Overall, I'd say it's a good workout for maintaing endurance and gaining strength.

Could you please write how you planned the cycle 10-8-6-4 how many % against 1RM or 4RM. I want to start the same cycle and I plan to start from 90%of my 4reps max. 60kg-10 reps, 70kg-8reps, 80kg-6reps, 90kg-4 reps, next week I will add 5kg to last set and 1,2,3 set accordingly or only 2,5kg. DO you think it is a good idea? What was your plan?

[SuffolkPunch]

Check dates of threads before bumping - this is from 2010