Official Law Student/Lawyer Thread

[LordBroski]

Lawyer here. Passed the summer 2011 bar. This is total truth. I spoke with a partner at the largest firm in TX during my job search and he told me that now he couldn't even hire himself... and he graduated near the top of a decent school.

I've seen bad lawyers - booksmart smart idiots with no common sense, the last person you'd want in front of a jury - get hired in litigation just because they went to the right school. There's an argument that some firms value credentials over competence. On the other hand, those law school credentials can mean competence.

Not to mention firm or client 'diversity' requirements. Fuark that chit.

I always lol @ how firms talk about "culture", "fit", etc.

Nobody cares about that nonsense.

If you've got the grades from a top school, don't mind working 100 hours a week, and aren't completely hideous, you're in.

[BrbGettingSwole]

I always lol @ how firms talk about "culture", "fit", etc.

Nobody cares about that nonsense.

If you've got the grades from a top school, don't mind working 100 hours a week, and aren't completely hideous, you're in.

I disagree to a certain extent. Several firms have their pick of the litter and they can afford to pick people who match their "culture" (and judging by where my classmates are going, they do). Likewise, many people who are juggling between several offers choose based on culture/fit. That stuff is actually pretty important when you're spending more time with these people than your family.

[liore22]

Just started reading getting to maybe. Has some good info but a lot of the examples are too advanced for me. He's bringing up all this stuff about contract law and crim law and I don't know jack about those topics. He extrapolates on these examples to illustrate his point e.g. policy or fork in the law fork in the facts. Kinda tempted to just stop reading and then read this book perhaps during the 1st semester. I don't know enough about contracts or crim law to understand what this guy is saying.

your thoughts? or nah should I just toughen up and read it now?

[outdoorsofficer]

Maybe its pointless to bring up in this thread since me and Brbgettinswole are the only ones using Themis for bar prep, but man I killed it today. For me anyways. We had our simulated bar exam today and yesterday. Today was the AM and PM portions for the MBE. My scores have gone way up from the first two milestone exams, but more importantly I'm closing the gap between my score and the average.

My AM MBE Score was a 61, Themis average 64

My PM MBE Score was a 57, Themis average 60.

Those definitely have to be in the meaty part of the bell curve. You would think. I wish the bar exam was as transparent with scores and percentiles as the LSAT is. Anyways - so motivated now for this finals 3 weeks.

(oh and I did my simulated exam completely closed book under exam conditions. You know at least some of the higher scores were people looking stuff up lol).

[BrbGettingSwole]

Nice! I also did my simulated yesterday, While doing it I felt like I was getting rekt, but everything turned out better than expected. Still getting 50's on graded essays though. Not sure if I'm retarded or my grader is

[outdoorsofficer]

Nice! I also did my simulated yesterday, While doing it I felt like I was getting rekt, but everything turned out better than expected. Still getting 50's on graded essays though. Not sure if I'm retarded or my grader is

Nice dude. You'll do well. Especially considering property is your money maker and it is the worst subject for everyone else.

Essays - I'll consistently get 6/10 and 7/10, but I think the graders are told to grade low on purpose to "motivate" you to "learn everything harder." Like I'm not actually making that up, I think thats part of the strategy to get you to pass. So I wouldn't worry.

[RJlawgic]

In for later, rising 2L here.

[Future24]

In for later, rising 2L here.

Same. Freaking out about post grad jobs already smh.

[BrbGettingSwole]

Same. Freaking out about post grad jobs already smh.

You'll be fine. People seem to have a positive outlook on the legal market nowadays.

[Laverna]

Clerkship application time is upon us Aussies. God have mercy on us all.

[Alvos]

IN.

2 years PQE. Already burned out. Want to GTFO, but have back injury so need $ for doctors and potential surgery.

[chrismophat]

sheise guys good luck you'll need it

[BrbGettingSwole]

Nice dude. You'll do well. Especially considering property is your money maker and it is the worst subject for everyone else.

Essays - I'll consistently get 6/10 and 7/10, but I think the graders are told to grade low on purpose to "motivate" you to "learn everything harder." Like I'm not actually making that up, I think thats part of the strategy to get you to pass. So I wouldn't worry.

How are you doing? Just two full days left mate

[outdoorsofficer]

Sorry man i haven't been on misc recently. I think i did well. The MEE was super easy. BUT obviously the curve will probably suck. I didn't think the mbe was too bad but many others i know thought it was EXTREMELY difficult. As in they weren't prepared at all for those types of questions. And those are people smarter than me. So maybe i missed something. Idk. All i know is September 15th can't come soon enough. How did it go for you?

[BrbGettingSwole]

Sorry man i haven't been on misc recently. I think i did well. The MEE was super easy. BUT obviously the curve will probably suck. I didn't think the mbe was too bad but many others i know thought it was EXTREMELY difficult. As in they weren't prepared at all for those types of questions. And those are people smarter than me. So maybe i missed something. Idk. All i know is September 15th can't come soon enough. How did it go for you?

The NY essays were a lot tougher than I expected, and talking to people afterwards it seems like people approached them in many different ways, so I'm curious how they'll be awarding points for those. The MBE i breezed through, but there were quite a few questions where several choices seemed correct, so there was some guess work going on.

Themis didn't prepare me well for those civ pro questions though. The course prioritized subject matter jurisdiction and all the different filing timelines, and the exam itself only had one or two questions in those areas.

Are you expecting results September 15th? NY doesn't release until October/November

[outdoorsofficer]

The NY essays were a lot tougher than I expected, and talking to people afterwards it seems like people approached them in many different ways, so I'm curious how they'll be awarding points for those. The MBE i breezed through, but there were quite a few questions where several choices seemed correct, so there was some guess work going on.

Themis didn't prepare me well for those civ pro questions though. The course prioritized subject matter jurisdiction and all the different filing timelines, and the exam itself only had one or two questions in those areas.

Are you expecting results September 15th? NY doesn't release until October/November

Yes, our results are coming September 16th, but Missouri is posting a list of successful people on the 15th. Agreed about Themis missing the point on civ pro, HOWEVER one of our essays was about subject matter jurisdiction. So that actually really helped. Otherwise I thought themis did a decent job on the multiple choice.

[Laverna]

IN.

2 years PQE. Already burned out. Want to GTFO, but have back injury so need $ for doctors and potential surgery.

Doing my applications this weekend. Any advice for cover letters?

[HGM1989]

Brahs who have been through the 1L grind how did you balance everything out and make time for the gym and a little bit of free time.

[BrbGettingSwole]

Brahs who have been through the 1L grind how did you balance everything out and make time for the gym and a little bit of free time.

You try to make it work for a while, but when you're two months from finals you pretty much have to drop everything else and focus solely on studying. I wouldn't give up gym time though, taking a few hours a week to workout is a good way to keep your mind fresh.

[predator187]

For better or worse, this profession is filled with prestige whores. Firms are ranked, schools are ranked, and prospective law students are ranked almost solely by their LSAT and GPA. The lower on the ladder you start, the harder it'll be to convince an employer to hire you. And at a time when tons of students are graduating with 200k in debt and there are no jobs for many of them, it's hardly wise to make life more difficult for yourself than it needs to be.

Just my 2 cents

Lawyer here. There are still plenty of jobs, depending on what market you get licensed in. NV has a super open job market, it just has a crazy hard bar exam.





My advice:

1) Go to the highest ranked school you can that offers you the most amount of scholarship money. Don't choose a school solely based on ranking because a job in biglaw is not guaranteed just because you go to a t-14. Therefore, you want to minimize the amount of debt you graduate with.

2) Go where the jobs are. I went to a T2 in NYC (on a full tuition scholarship). I moved to Nevada because the job market was better. NYC is over saturated with lawyers and too expensive to live. I got a job as a law clerk within 3 weeks of taking the bar, and I got two job offers within 2 weeks of being admitted (one of which I am currently working as an Associate at).

3) Grades don't matter at all unless you want to go into big law. I never had one employer ask me for my transcripts even for my many interships and clerkships during law school. Ditto with law review/moot court/ mock trial. It only matters if you want to go into big law.

4) When applying for jobs, ignore the required experience (for the most part). Meaning, if a job says it requires 1-3 years of experience apply. My current job was looking for somebody with 2 years of experience. I had about a year of internship/clerkship experience.

5) Don't act like a dumbass with your student loan money. I took out money for living expenses and I was extremely irresponsible with it. I lived above my means. It was fun but it was incredibly stupid.

[liore22]

been busy as hell since I started school. Not necessarily hard but I'm always on the go. Case after case after case. Some classes the workload is manageable but for some, it is very high volume reading. Reading 4 cases a night for some classes whereas for other classes they give me two days or three days to read 2 cases.


been slacking on the gym. getting so skinny. Feels badman.

[BrbGettingSwole]

been busy as hell since I started school. Not necessarily hard but I'm always on the go. Case after case after case. Some classes the workload is manageable but for some, it is very high volume reading. Reading 4 cases a night for some classes whereas for other classes they give me two days or three days to read 2 cases.


been slacking on the gym. getting so skinny. Feels badman.

Welcome to the rest of your life

[outdoorsofficer]

Oh fuk yes, Misc! I passed the bar exam on the first attempt! Just when I thought I couldn't possible share any less in common with Hillary Clinton, Michelle Obama, or Joe Biden. (Missouri)

[BrbGettingSwole]

Oh fuk yes, Misc! I passed the bar exam on the first attempt! Just when I thought I couldn't possible share any less in common with Hillary Clinton, Michelle Obama, or Joe Biden. (Missouri)

Congrats! I won't get results till late October/early November unfortunately.

[outdoorsofficer]

Congrats! I won't get results till late October/early November unfortunately.

Based on your Themis midterm, you'll do more than just fine. You honestly will pass. I'm not just saying that to be a reassuring stranger on the Internet - my scaled MBE score was a couple points higher than I'd been doing on Themis's sets, so you're more than golden.

[TheSpectre]

Misc lawyer and law student bros, what is the consensus on retaking the LSAT? October scores came in, and I didn't do as well as I anticipated (165, 91st percentile). I was really aiming for 95th percentile, so this was a huge disappointment. I usually excel at LG, it's always been my easiest section srs. But on the actual LSAT I didn't manage my time on the logic games well, panicked, and ended up bubbling "C" on 5-6 sections, completely blindly without even eliminating options (obviously). I feel strongly that I could do better, but I'm not sure if it's worth it if the top schools are going to look down on taking it again. I did very little prep and am confident that my score would improve (although I do recognize the possibility of doing the same or worse). Background on me, I'm a pharmacist (PharmD, RPh). My GPA isn't great as a result of going through 4 years of a doctorate program with technically only two years of undergrad. I was really counting on my LSAT to really boost my applications. I'm only interested in attending a top 14 school.

Any advice here or any PMs are greatly appreciated.

[outdoorsofficer]

Misc lawyer and law student bros, what is the consensus on retaking the LSAT? October scores came in, and I didn't do as well as I anticipated (165, 91st percentile). I was really aiming for 95th percentile, so this was a huge disappointment. I usually excel at LG, it's always been my easiest section srs. But on the actual LSAT I didn't manage my time on the logic games well, panicked, and ended up bubbling "C" on 5-6 sections, completely blindly without even eliminating options (obviously). I feel strongly that I could do better, but I'm not sure if it's worth it if the top schools are going to look down on taking it again. I did very little prep and am confident that my score would improve (although I do recognize the possibility of doing the same or worse). Background on me, I'm a pharmacist (PharmD, RPh). My GPA isn't great as a result of going through 4 years of a doctorate program with technically only two years of undergrad. I was really counting on my LSAT to really boost my applications. I'm only interested in attending a top 14 school.

Any advice here or any PMs are greatly appreciated.

I don't think top schools will look down on you for retaking the LSAT. Some schools might take both scores into consideration or average them. HOWEVER, they'll report your better score for the rankings system, and thats what they really care about. So retaking it will not hurt you. If you get a higher score, they'll still want you so they can report your higher score in with the other scores that make up their class.

Your score was much better than mine though and I'm doing pretty well right now. Passed the bar in July and have a good job with the military. A 165 is NOTHING to scoff at.

[TheSpectre]

I don't think top schools will look down on you for retaking the LSAT. Some schools might take both scores into consideration or average them. HOWEVER, they'll report your better score for the rankings system, and thats what they really care about. So retaking it will not hurt you. If you get a higher score, they'll still want you so they can report your higher score in with the other scores that make up their class.

Your score was much better than mine though and I'm doing pretty well right now. Passed the bar in July and have a good job with the military. A 165 is NOTHING to scoff at.

I realize that whining about a 165 might sound like a humble brag, but my undergrad GPA is extremely weak, being comprised of two years of hard science pre-reqs and then two years of a four year professional degree. Additionally, all of my practice tests were higher than 165. I really could only allow myself to go to a top school that *ahem* "guarantees" a more lucrative career to offset years of a forgone pharmacist salary.

[jcook996]

I realize that whining about a 165 might sound like a humble brag, but my undergrad GPA is extremely weak, being comprised of two years of hard science pre-reqs and then two years of a four year professional degree. Additionally, all of my practice tests were higher than 165. I really could only allow myself to go to a top school that *ahem* "guarantees" a more lucrative career to offset years of a forgone pharmacist salary.

Retake it.

There are no guarantees though, just higher probabilities. Additionally, the high salary usually comes with a job in BigLaw and is that something you want to do?

[TheSpectre]

Retake it.

There are no guarantees though, just higher probabilities. Additionally, the high salary usually comes with a job in BigLaw and is that something you want to do?

Yeah, I definitely understand the lack of guarantees. I imagine I would gravitate towards IP law since I have a hard science and research background. But nothing is set in stone.