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  1. #1
    Adapt or Die. El Elyon's Avatar
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    How do MMA fighters increase strength but stay 'in weight'?

    We all know hypertrophy makes you bigger and heavier. I know powerlifting makes you strong but doesn't increase much mass. But you will still build muscle from building strength. So how do MMA fighters continue to build strength but stay in their weight catagory?

    I'm aiming to build to 205lbs, but i want to be as strong as possible.
    "You want science and studies? F*** you, I've got scars and blood and vomit." - Jim Wendler.
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  2. #2
    Power Level: Over 9000 Workout4ever's Avatar
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    They eat alot and lift heavy, then come fight time they just cut mostly water weight to make there required weight class
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  3. #3
    Adapt or Die. El Elyon's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Workout4ever View Post
    They eat alot and lift heavy, then come fight time they just cut mostly water weight to make there required weight class
    But that would mean come the next fight they'd have to do the exact same to hit the weight. Therefor they can't go over a certain weight between fights, I.E not working on strength to mcuh so they don't get too heavy.

    So if you're right, then there is a cap to every fighters strength where he can't get get any stronger incase he doesn't make weight.
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  4. #4
    deracate chinese frower Mindi912's Avatar
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    Stay in rep range 1 - 5, it builds strength but not too much muscle.

    Most fighters however don't walking around at their fight weight, they tend to cut.
    Perfection in mind, perfect body!

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    Amateur 1 - 0 - 0

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  5. #5
    Adapt or Die. El Elyon's Avatar
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    brahs, i don't want to know how to do strength training. I already know how to do that lol. No one has answered the question:

    How do the fighters continue to get stronger without getting heavier?
    "You want science and studies? F*** you, I've got scars and blood and vomit." - Jim Wendler.
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  6. #6
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    Originally Posted by El Elyon View Post
    brahs, i don't want to know how to do strength training. I already know how to do that lol. No one has answered the question:

    How do the fighters continue to get stronger without getting heavier?
    They don't since it's impossible. You're only hope is to lose a little fat and fill that weight void with more muscle.
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  7. #7
    Registered User BringtheNoise's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by El Elyon View Post
    I know powerlifting makes you strong but doesn't increase much mass.
    srs?
    Training log: http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=152183263
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  8. #8
    All I Need Is My Belt.. IAmBatman's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by El Elyon View Post
    brahs, i don't want to know how to do strength training. I already know how to do that lol. No one has answered the question:

    How do the fighters continue to get stronger without getting heavier?
    Disregard all the previous. You can easily get stronger without gaining weight, assuming you're fairly new to strength training. It really comes down to your nervous system and a lot of biology you don't need to know.

    Pick a beginners strength program like Starting Strength or Madcows and use that. Size is a product of diet for the most part. If you eat maintenance calories you won't gain much size at all. You'll probably gain some muscle but also experience a slight leaning out.

    You must remember though it's going to become harder to train the various martial arts, keep conditioning up, and gain strength without upping the calories. It can be done easily in the initial stages.
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  9. #9
    Registered User Peacenukka1129's Avatar
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    who says they are getting stronger while not getting bigger? they are not bodybuilders they dont have to bench 300 to be effective in their sport...what would a 155er or something need to bench that much weight for anyways...they prolly hit a desired 1 RM with each major exercise and just maintain
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  10. #10
    The White Rampage Blue Blazer's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by El Elyon View Post
    We all know hypertrophy makes you bigger and heavier. I know powerlifting makes you strong but doesn't increase much mass. But you will still build muscle from building strength. So how do MMA fighters continue to build strength but stay in their weight catagory?

    I'm aiming to build to 205lbs, but i want to be as strong as possible.
    if you have any mma aspirations I think you are taking the wrong approach...

    you're 25 and 180ish and want to get to 205 to fight there...205ers don't weight 205, they make weight, meaning they could be walking around anywhere from 205-240 (showing extremes here, I'm sure the average is 220-230)

    As you already know strength isn't the most important factor in mma, but it is a valuable asset. You don't need to be the strongest mofo in there, you need strength, speed, balance, etc.

    To be quite honest I have no idea why you are even worrying about this. You're 180ish and want to fight at 205...my only suggestion to you is to eat and lift like a mofo while doing the rest of your training and hope for the best while preparing for the worst.
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  11. #11
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    Ever heard of the grappler strength????

    Fighters have different type of strengths and leverage is a big part as well.


    Some mma fighters may lift more but others are stronger from doing grappling and building there bodies up with whatever martial art they are expert at
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  12. #12
    deracate chinese frower Mindi912's Avatar
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    sigh

    Strength does not equal size and size does not equal strength!
    Perfection in mind, perfect body!

    MMA Fight Record:

    Amateur 1 - 0 - 0

    Pro - 0 - 0 - 1 :(
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  13. #13
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    Originally Posted by Mindi912 View Post
    sigh

    Strength does not equal size and size does not equal strength!
    No. They do not equal. But there is a correlation. The more muscle mass the more potential for strength. There's a reason the world's strongest men and strongest powerlifters are big guys.
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  14. #14
    deracate chinese frower Mindi912's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Defiant1 View Post
    Strength consists of (trainable factors):

    Skill
    Neuromuscular efficiency
    myofibrillar hypertrophy of certain myofibrils-high threshold

    Of the three, only the last one directly affects size.

    Size consists of (trainable factors):

    Myofibrillar hypertrophy of all myofibrils
    Sarcoplasmic hypertrophy (non contractile elements of muscle...not non-FUNCTIONAL...people confuse this)
    nutrient supercompensation (glycogen etc-related to the second one)

    So, there is some overlap.

    Strength development will contribute to size, but training for strength is not the optimum way to train for size.
    I will give you it can make a difference the other way around but it's not necessarily always true either.

    I've seen some pretty strong dudes be in the middle when it comes to overall size.
    Perfection in mind, perfect body!

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  15. #15
    Fixedthe Fernback AWhislyle's Avatar
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    I don't know what the **** you are all debating about or why, the question this guy asked is can top level mma fighters keep getting stronger in perpetuity while fighting at the same weight, and I think the answer is no, there is a plateau reached in strength that can be reached at the maximum weight they can be and still cut to their weight
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  16. #16
    deracate chinese frower Mindi912's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by AWhislyle View Post
    I don't know what the **** you are all debating about or why, the question this guy asked is can top level mma fighters keep getting stronger in perpetuity while fighting at the same weight, and I think the answer is no, there is a plateau reached in strength that can be reached at the maximum weight they can be and still cut to their weight
    he didn't ask "can they," he asked how do they do it.

    Just because you are training for strength doesn't necessarily mean you are naturally going to increase in size.
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  17. #17
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    Here you go OP:

    1. Lift weights for strength
    2. Eat the amount of food such that your weight doesn't change.


    Hope that helps
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    Originally Posted by Darkwatcher759 View Post
    Here you go OP:

    1. Lift weights for strength
    2. Eat the amount of food such that your weight doesn't change.


    Hope that helps
    pretty much this

    Its the same way olympic weightlifters or powerlifters stay in same weight class but get stronger.

    yes maybe some fighters could get even stronger if bulked out of weight class but then they probably be weak for that weight class. Fighters try to find right weight class where they can be strongest, quickest ext for their size.
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  19. #19
    Fixedthe Fernback AWhislyle's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Mindi912 View Post

    Just because you are training for strength doesn't necessarily mean you are naturally going to increase in size.
    Obviously, but do you think a fighter who has been fighting at 155 for 10 years, and weight training the whole time is still getting stronger? There is a point where you have maximized your strength per size and you can't get stronger without getting bigger.
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    Originally Posted by AWhislyle View Post
    Obviously, but do you think a fighter who has been fighting at 155 for 10 years, and weight training the whole time is still getting stronger? There is a point where you have maximized your strength per size and you can't get stronger without getting bigger.
    yes

    many pro weightlifters get stronger even after 10 years

    their is a cap no matter what you weigh, yet as fighter you realize what weight class be strongest in and stick with it.
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    You don't even need conventional weight training to do MMA or any martial arts sure it can help.

    But loads of other strength & conditioning workouts you can do such as Kettlebells.

    Many a martial artist wants to train like a Bodybuilder too it wastes a LOT of time not too mention valuable recovery time.
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    deracate chinese frower Mindi912's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by someonefat View Post
    yes

    many pro weightlifters get stronger even after 10 years

    their is a cap no matter what you weigh, yet as fighter you realize what weight class be strongest in and stick with it.
    This

    Originally Posted by DragonDude View Post
    You don't even need conventional weight training to do MMA or any martial arts sure it can help.

    But loads of other strength & conditioning workouts you can do such as Kettlebells.

    Many a martial artist wants to train like a Bodybuilder too it wastes a LOT of time not too mention valuable recovery time.
    Who mentioned conventional workouts?
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    Originally Posted by Mindi912 View Post
    sigh

    Strength does always not equal size and size does not always equal strength!
    fixed, Min. But fighters don't always do strength lifting. There's plyos and power/ballistic lifting which focuses more on rep speed and force than weight. Add that into the fact that they don't consume the calories in protein needed to gain muscle mass the way a bber would and their weight stays at their "normal" range 9or walk around weight). Remember they then usually drop down and try to keep as much muscle as they can so they can gain back a certain amount of stored glycogen and fat for the fight the next day. Uriah recently stated that he went from 135 at weigh in to 155 fight night. That's not new muscle mass he gained, yet he looked lean. He depleted he muscles of water and glycogen, then filled them back up. wrestlers have been doing this for ever, I suck at it for myself lol.
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    Originally Posted by parkerbro1 View Post
    fixed, Min. But fighters don't always do strength lifting. There's plyos and power/ballistic lifting which focuses more on rep speed and force than weight. Add that into the fact that they don't consume the calories in protein needed to gain muscle mass the way a bber would and their weight stays at their "normal" range 9or walk around weight). Remember they then usually drop down and try to keep as much muscle as they can so they can gain back a certain amount of stored glycogen and fat for the fight the next day. Uriah recently stated that he went from 135 at weigh in to 155 fight night. That's not new muscle mass he gained, yet he looked lean. He depleted he muscles of water and glycogen, then filled them back up. wrestlers have been doing this for ever, I suck at it for myself lol.
    agreed all the way with this.
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    Some great responses here brahs... Very true about the glycogen and water depletion at weigh in to then filling that back up at fight day to give yourself the advantage.

    So is it possible to be 190-200lb muscular dude when walking about but then cut down to 185lbs in the weigh in? Does glycogen and water really weigh that much? Or am i going to lose muscular mass when i'm approaching the weigh in?

    Cheers for the responses so far.
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    Originally Posted by El Elyon View Post
    Some great responses here brahs... Very true about the glycogen and water depletion at weigh in to then filling that back up at fight day to give yourself the advantage.

    So is it possible to be 190-200lb muscular dude when walking about but then cut down to 185lbs in the weigh in? Does glycogen and water really weigh that much? Or am i going to lose muscular mass when i'm approaching the weigh in?

    Cheers for the responses so far.
    Not the glycogen that much, but water can be a lot of what you lose and what you need to gain back (just be careful, if you dehydrate too much, it can be too difficult to hydrate enough by the time of the fight). Can definitely go from 200, or especially 190, to 185 (five pounds can be lost over night in water weight. ever wonder why your weight can fluctuate through out the day? Food and water). most middle weights I know are those stats exactly. My suggestion is to do a slow cut over a longer time period than normal. Think bodybuilder style (for lack of a better term). Faber said that's what he did for the cut to 135 and he was back at 150 something day of and feeling great. Always been a big fan of the slower time for adaption and to make adjustments than the last minute cuts.
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    Just found some figures. This seems crazy:

    Georges St. Pierre: walk around at 190-195. (185 five day before fight)

    Chuck liddell walk around at 220-225

    Matt Lindland walk around at 200-205

    Ed Herman walk around at 210-212

    Josh Koscheck walk around at 190-192

    Jason Mcdonald walk around 200-205

    Jon Fitch walk around at 190

    Wanderlei silva walk around at 215-218

    Mac danzig walk around at 170

    Thiago Alves Walk around at 185

    Okami walk aroud 210

    Andreson Silva walks around at 215

    Tito walks around at almost 230

    Huston Alexander doesn't cut weight

    Lesnar is approximately 280

    So you're telling me the fighters, sometimes a few days before the fight, do not eat/drink anything to make weight? Then the One/Two days left before the fighter they bulk back up?

    Explains why i look at people like GSP and think, no ****ing way is he 170lbs at my height.
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    Originally Posted by El Elyon View Post
    Just found some figures. This seems crazy:

    Georges St. Pierre: walk around at 190-195. (185 five day before fight)

    Lesnar is approximately 280

    So you're telling me the fighters, sometimes a few days before the fight, do not eat/drink anything to make weight? Then the One/Two days left before the fighter they bulk back up?

    Explains why i look at people like GSP and think, no ****ing way is he 170lbs at my height.
    OP i don't think many people understood what u meant since we're now talking about cutting weight...

    gsp is the perfect example... starting his career he cut weight like he does now but he was much weaker.. he said recently he changed strength coaches and he's lifting like 10X more on certain excersizes yet he is still able to cut to 170... how is this possible? how does one achieve this?

    what's the maximum strength someone can obtain while only weighing 170 (on cut, 195 walking weight)?
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