if there's more protein than fat in diet?

[jagadzie]

i apologize in advance because i assume this is asked frequently, but -- i searched and couldn't find anything.

if i have more calories from protein than fat in my diet, what does that cause? why is that bad? i'm having a hard time getting fat to be higher than protein. i teeter on the edge of them just being equal of fat a tiny bit lower than protein.

loving the spicy mayo though... i'll try to load up on that more if i must!

also- if i don't get into ketosis (on day 2 for my first time trying), and my macros are, say, 123f/34c/119p for a 64%f / 8% c /28% p split, what effect will that have? i'll still be using carbs as fuel, but just not much of them, would it be bad news for my body fat to have that much fat if not in ketosis?

[DennisR1977]

i apologize in advance because i assume this is asked frequently, but -- i searched and couldn't find anything.

if i have more calories from protein than fat in my diet, what does that cause? why is that bad? i'm having a hard time getting fat to be higher than protein. i teeter on the edge of them just being equal of fat a tiny bit lower than protein.

loving the spicy mayo though... i'll try to load up on that more if i must!

also- if i don't get into ketosis (on day 2 for my first time trying), and my macros are, say, 123f/34c/119p for a 64%f / 8% c /28% p split, what effect will that have? i'll still be using carbs as fuel, but just not much of them, would it be bad news for my body fat to have that much fat if not in ketosis?

Your macros look fine there, you should have no problem getting into ketosis. You're just above 30 grams of carbs, but not much. Give it a try for a week, and see how it does. Oh yea, I'm also in Wisconsin!

[MdFitness]

id not out carbs completely other than green veggies or fiber.

maybe just add in a piece of cheese to up the fat and protein.

give it times it takes quite a few days for some people.

[jagadzie]

thanks for the encouragement guys!

I really do not have any grains or fruits in my diet, all the carbs (34g) are coming from nuts, cheeses, my yogurt and some "meat"balls (fake meat - i'm a vegetarian trying to do this!) so it would truly be very difficult to cut carbs even lower, i know they're not at the ideal 5%, and i CAN cut more if i need to. my meatballs have some and some nuts/dairy have more than others, so i can be more strict but starting here to see if it works... i'd hate to limit my options even more unless i really have to!

dennis, where in Wi are you? i'm just W of milwaukee.

[Brianterz]

i apologize in advance because i assume this is asked frequently, but -- i searched and couldn't find anything.

if i have more calories from protein than fat in my diet, what does that cause? why is that bad? i'm having a hard time getting fat to be higher than protein. i teeter on the edge of them just being equal of fat a tiny bit lower than protein.

loving the spicy mayo though... i'll try to load up on that more if i must!

also- if i don't get into ketosis (on day 2 for my first time trying), and my macros are, say, 123f/34c/119p for a 64%f / 8% c /28% p split, what effect will that have? i'll still be using carbs as fuel, but just not much of them, would it be bad news for my body fat to have that much fat if not in ketosis?

As long as your macros are good you will get into ketosis...... average keto macros are 65% fat 30% protein....OR 60% fat 35% protein.... you still at an average keto macro.. your good

[DennisR1977]

I'm in Milwaukee. Bayview area. Good luck! Keto is awesome!

[K41N]

Similar question, if your fat is lower - say 20% fat, 13% carbs and 67% protein - but total intake is only 1400 calories (45g fat, 25g carbs, 150g protein) will you still maintain keto? or will the body convert protein>?

i was under the impression with those macros, carbs < 30g, and protein requirement met, wont the lack of fats just make the body more tired? ie- less fuel for energy? but if one was able to maintain the same workout, they would simply see larger results?

[Brianterz]

Similar question, if your fat is lower - say 20% fat, 13% carbs and 67% protein - but total intake is only 1400 calories (45g fat, 25g carbs, 150g protein) will you still maintain keto? or will the body convert protein>?

i was under the impression with those macros, carbs < 30g, and protein requirement met, wont the lack of fats just make the body more tired? ie- less fuel for energy? but if one was able to maintain the same workout, they would simply see larger results?

yes.. that is a PSMF diet.. very low calories.. high protein, low carb low fat..

and yes.. it will make you tired.. fat = energy...PSMF is a great diet but only temp.

[K41N]

yes.. that is a PSMF diet.. very low calories.. high protein, low carb low fat..

and yes.. it will make you tired.. fat = energy...PSMF is a great diet but only temp.

ok, cheers. guess im uping my fat intake.

[rosedanield]

yes.. that is a PSMF diet.. very low calories.. high protein, low carb low fat..

and yes.. it will make you tired.. fat = energy...PSMF is a great diet but only temp.

Actually its not a PSMF at least I think by definitions of how percentages on a keto are derived.
I believe that normal numbers are 65%/35%/0% ((100% true keto numbers).
However, these numbers are on total calories consumed not grams of macronutrients consumed.
Therefore with the given numbers:

Calories: 1105 (not 1400, values don't add up)
Protein: 405 (37%)
Fat: 600 (54%)
Carbs: 100 (9%)

Also, your body doesn't process food as grams but as calories so you need to use caloric percentages of macronutrients not grams.
I believe a PSMF would consist of more like >80% protein consumption and is generally stated to be a sub 1000 caloric intake diet.

I believe what is being described here is a VLCD (very low calorie diet).

I am currently on a macro split (based upon calories) of:

48% protein
46% fat
6% carbs

The goal was a 50/50/0 split (theoretically, practically impossible to hit perfectly)

I am attempting to reach and stay in ketosis without losing muscle and having my protein converted to kick me out of ketosis (which I have read can happen), but at the same time trying to keep protein high enough to have a protein muscle sparing effect, by having an equal split of fat I hope to give my body the calories it needs from fat to give it fuel and stay away from converting protein for fuel and stay in ketosis. All while being on a VLCD (1100 calories, I am 5'9 200 pounds, approx. 18% BF). So not a lot of room to play with in way of hitting macro numbers where I want them. Current numbers in grams are approx 140/60/15 pro/fat/carbs (little but of round off), but as I said before in terms of calories its 48/46/6 (percent of total calories).

[Atavis]

Stop using ratio's and percentages.

The whole problem goes away.

[mpawlicki]

To be in ketosis your body must make a shift from preferring glucose to ketones for fuel. That's why we eat a lot of fat and next to no carbs.
Your body will always try to use the easiest fuel source for energy. That's carbs. If you don't give it carbs, it will go for protein. Too much protein and not enough fat in the diet and it will start converting protein for fuel and even cannibalize your muscles.
The low fat, moderate protein, and high fat ratio is designed to get your body to use fat for fuel and spare protein for muscle synthesis.

[weiss1967]

Methink, if there is a caloies deficit, there will be some level of ketosis no matter what we eat. Isn't it how we burn fat cutting on moderate carb diets?

[xJellyBirdx]

To be in ketosis your body must make a shift from preferring glucose to ketones for fuel. That's why we eat a lot of fat and next to no carbs.
Your body will always try to use the easiest fuel source for energy. That's carbs.

Your preferred fuel source is indirectly controlled by your CHO intake not what is easiest. The less carbs you eat, the more fat your body will burn for energy. The body doesn't need to convert protein over for fuel. It can burn the amino acids for fuel, convert them to glucose, or lastly and in rare cases, convert them over to fat. The reason for this is the body can't really store protein anywhere so it has to do something with it. Fat can be stored in adipose tissue while glucose can be stored in the liver, muscles, or converted over to fat for storage. Since the liver can hold ~120g, anything under that could technically be considered nutritional ketosis. Since protein converts over at ~53% it really isn't a viable energy source compared to glucose or fat. The only time your body will use LBM is under large deficits/malnourished or if it needs amino acids.

Methink, if there is a caloies deficit, there will be some level of ketosis no matter what we eat. Isn't it how we burn fat cutting on moderate carb diets?

Refer to my above response as well. You burn fat because it is stored energy. You are always producing trace amounts of ketones for certain organs like the heart.

[Looton]

thanks for the encouragement guys!

I really do not have any grains or fruits in my diet, all the carbs (34g) are coming from nuts, cheeses, my yogurt and some "meat"balls (fake meat - i'm a vegetarian trying to do this!) so it would truly be very difficult to cut carbs even lower, i know they're not at the ideal 5%, and i CAN cut more if i need to. my meatballs have some and some nuts/dairy have more than others, so i can be more strict but starting here to see if it works... i'd hate to limit my options even more unless i really have to!

dennis, where in Wi are you? i'm just W of milwaukee.

Yogurt, yeah I hear that. I love Brown Cow organic Cherry vanilla - my new drug of choice- but it's almost all my daily carbs. I need to nix yogurt.

[BrianGA]

I just posted this in another thread with a similar question about raising fat:

Foods that are equal in fat grams and equal or less in protein grams will always yield a higher fat ratio due to the fact that a gram of fat is 9 calories where a gram of protein is 4 calories. Eggs are a staple for me because of that. Fatty meats such as sausage or bacon are good too. If I'm eating hamburger meat it's always 80/20 or higher fat ratio. But usually the protein will be higher. So I'll cook a hamburger patty, cook me an egg to eat with it, use a tablespoon of butter to cook the egg in to add more fat, and I'll sautee some mushrooms with a tablespoon of butter, then pour heavy cream in (more fat), put over low heat to reduce the cream, and make a nice mushroom gravy to eat with the hamburger patty and egg.

Here is a typical breakfast for me, a couple of eggs with an oz or more of cheese....eggs cooked in butter of course, a cup of coffee with two tablespoons of cream. That's probably a 70-80% fat meal right that. But using foods like eggs, cheese, bacon, etc that are about 70-80% fat without modifying is the easiest way. And add butter and oil when you cook.