How to lose fat for Noobs - Part II

[TrueQBN]

Finally dropped the damn pounds. Time to adjust just a snitch.

Feels good man.

Real good. Reps to the information in here.

[legends159]

Refeeds are not part of the 3 rules. Any views on whether they are important?

[TrueQBN]

Refeeds are not part of the 3 rules. Any views on whether they are important?

Mentally they are a must in my book.

Nutritionally? Well, I personally have one once a week the day before my heavy workout, and thus far I have been able to run over my goals on each of those days in the gym.

Theoretically, if done right, they seem to be beneficial. At least in MY experience. Could differ for others.

If you want to look at the numbers though, say if your cutting at 1500kcal a day, maintenance at 2500kcal, and your dropping 2lbs a week, essentially your burning off 7500kcal each week.

If you refeed once a week, that weekly burn gets knocked down to 6500kcal a week, but you gain a day of feeling great mentally, and more so often physically.

Definitely not part of the 3 rules however. You can still cut fat just fine.

[legends159]

Mentally they are a must in my book.

Nutritionally? Well, I personally have one once a week the day before my heavy workout, and thus far I have been able to run over my goals on each of those days in the gym.

Theoretically, if done right, they seem to be beneficial. At least in MY experience. Could differ for others.

If you want to look at the numbers though, say if your cutting at 1500kcal a day, maintenance at 2500kcal, and your dropping 2lbs a week, essentially your burning off 7500kcal each week.

If you refeed once a week, that weekly burn gets knocked down to 6500kcal a week, but you gain a day of feeling great mentally, and more so often physically.

Definitely not part of the 3 rules however. You can still cut fat just fine.

well i'm wondering whether refeeds help prevent your body from lowering its BMR.

say your BMR starting out is 3000kcal and after 2 months of eating at 2500kcal your BMR becomes 2500kcal. Now you have to eat even less to lose weight.

Will periodic refeeds prevent this?

[iDrive]

yea you're right im not arguing that diet and exercise are the most important things and I guess I ignored the "for noobs" part in the op so I apologize for that.

No worries

I guess I was referring more to intermediate people who already have 1 or 2 successful cuts under their belt.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1619985
but here's a study on obese women showing ec prevents loss of FFM even with no exercise. it's not directly transferable to lean persons who exercise because that's 2 different variables but surely it proves something?

No offense but I lol'd a bit, you're targeting intermediate's with a study done on obese women who don't exercise?

but yea you're right for people just starting out it's not important because they need to get diet+exercise down first.

At least we agree here

lol stop nit picking bro. no sht they will use the word may based on only one study. idk why people here are hating on medicines but there is no denying they work. that being said diet+exercise is the most important.

Goes back to the whole "noobs" thing. You need to take out all the un necessary (20%) and give them the basic, bare bone essentials. Fat burners increase the energy out part of the equation without making a person move more or eat less but it's like cutting through the jungle with a scalpel

[ratbutt]

I got the diet, got the workout, negative results... What's wrong

[TrueQBN]

well i'm wondering whether refeeds help prevent your body from lowering its BMR.

say your BMR starting out is 3000kcal and after 2 months of eating at 2500kcal your BMR becomes 2500kcal. Now you have to eat even less to lose weight.

Will periodic refeeds prevent this?

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm almost positive that Lyle McDonald states that for the most part "cutting" doesn't really lower your BMR that much, not significantly anyways.

From what I have gathered, is that even though your dropping fat and weight, theoretically your maintenance should drop too, but since your composition is turning into more muscle than fat, theoretically (again) your metabolism (BMR) raises as muscle is much more energy demanding to sustain.

Many report refeeds to be beneficial for when weight loss stalls, to this I cannot comment on... Yet. However, I refeed yesterday (ton of carbs) and I steamrolled my heavy, most difficult workout in the last 5 weeks.

Again, these are my experiences and my accumulated knowledge of the the general consensus here on the forums.

My opinion, incorporate them once a week, 99.9% of the time reffeds net a favorable effect.

[nondualism]

I seem to recall that the lauded metabolic increases due to added muscle are actually pretty miniscule.

[TrueQBN]

I seem to recall that the lauded metabolic increases due to added muscle are actually pretty miniscule.

I can't comment on my own experiences to this, yet.

However, when I look around and see what other BB'ers are cutting on, typically people here on the forums, those with a lot of excess fat seem to have to cut a lot less than their lower fat counterparts.

A 200lb male at 25% Body Fat needs to cut on significantly less calories than a 200lb male at 15% Body Fat, taking genetics out of the equation.

[TrueQBN]

I got the diet, got the workout, negative results... What's wrong

Track your calories for 2 weeks, and be consistent. Your probably eating too much.

[Smoked33]

Well my 2 week weigh-in shows me still at 222 lbs and 27% bf according to the scale. I've been pretty steady at about 70 grams of fat, 150 grams of protein and 300 grams of carbs daily for 2500 cal. I'm definitely working out muscles i've never worked before, namely chest and some back so I'm thinking that there is some body compositional changes I can't really see yet...but I think I look better lol

I'm going to stay at 2500 for another week or two to see what happens but I am going to replace a daily afternoon snack of pretzels with come cucumber to lower the carb intake by 40gram a day. I'm feeling they're empty carbs and i'm not enjoying them like I would have. If I still dont' see a drop on the scale i'll lower the cals by 200 or 300 and go from there.

Noob here putting my starting flag in the ground. I'm 6'5", 222lbs at the moment(electronic scale has me around 27% bf). On Jan 4/11 I weighed in at 236lbs and have been low-carb up until this past friday.

Using the tool recommended in the first thread to determine my maintenance level of caloric intake it spat out approx 3500. I'm going to use 2500 cals per day as my guideline(which also happens to be my doctor's recommendation for dropping a few pounds), and am buying my first protein shake mix tonight. My goal for protein will be 160grams per day. I lift weights 3 times per week already and am going to alter my workout to be a little closers to Wave's outline but I'm also doing cardio right now because I'm training for a climb of the 1776 steps of the CN Tower in Toronto on April 16th.

My plan is to up my caloric intake on cardio training days by an additional 300 so I don't fall greater than a 1000cal. deficit and my goal is to be in the teens bf % by the summer.

If I'm missing anything I'd appreciate some feedback but I wanted to 'publish' my goals as motivation to get this going

Thanks!

[Jaaaaaamie]

Well. Just read the whole thread, and it seemed rude not to say thanks to all the contributors.

So thanks.


Right, thats the first post out the way.

[wave_length]

I got the diet, got the workout, negative results... What's wrong

If by negative you mean you didn't lose any weight, you haven't been following all 3 rules.

[nondualism]

If by negative you mean you didn't lose any weight, you haven't been following all 3 rules.

Exactly. It's physics. I've been cutting according to the three rules and IF for 4 days (again) and my weight doesn't 'seem' to be dropping - but I can't weigh at optimal times lately (end of fast, after waking up), so I know some of it is water weight - for instance. That doesn't mean I'm not losing fat.

[Smoked33]

Okay so I just read the entire first noob thread...took a few weeks and I feel dizzy now

I have a question. Do I have to do cardio?

LOL kidding.

ps...for anyone struggling(or just disliking) calorie counting. There are cool apps available for Android smartphones that do all the work for you. I have one called Calorie Counter that breaks down my day into the three meals plus snacks. It has an extensive library of food and all the cal/carb/fat/prot data for them and serving size customability. It has a barcode scanner for packaged foods and knows about most major restaraunt menus'. It's made calorie counting so easy. Nice widget on my homescreen for quick glance. Just an fyi for any that weren't aware

[trev71]

I have one called Calorie Counter that breaks down my day into the three meals plus snacks. It has a barcode scanner for packaged foods and knows about most major restaraunt menus'.

Good find on the bar code scanner, I use an iPhone app 'Muscle Gain' that tracks weight, fat intake, protein and calories. Good stuff, the bar code scanner however.. that wins me over. Need to check that one out!


BTW: 3 Rules!! For The Win!!

If it isn't working, then you need to follow rules 1,2 and 3, cause your not.

[KiTinMacho]

Another noob question by me, Would it be better to cut 200-300 calories from my current diet or 500 calories? I was going to cut 500 calories in the next few weeks but then I started thinking, The 506 calories is from milk which I get around 25g of protein from and the 200-300 calories is from a simple sandwich which probably has around 12g of protein. If I cut the milk do I need to add a protein shake which is 120 calories or am I overthinking this?

[vrundmc]

Another noob question by me, Would it be better to cut 200-300 calories from my current diet or 500 calories? I was going to cut 500 calories in the next few weeks but then I started thinking, The 506 calories is from milk which I get around 25g of protein from and the 200-300 calories is from a simple sandwich which probably has around 12g of protein. If I cut the milk do I need to add a protein shake which is 120 calories or am I overthinking this?

Why don't you start with 200-300 under what you think your maintence is. Evaluate after two weeks, and then cut more if you need to. It's all about evaluation and TIME.

[iDrive]

Another noob question by me, Would it be better to cut 200-300 calories from my current diet or 500 calories? I was going to cut 500 calories in the next few weeks but then I started thinking, The 506 calories is from milk which I get around 25g of protein from and the 200-300 calories is from a simple sandwich which probably has around 12g of protein. If I cut the milk do I need to add a protein shake which is 120 calories or am I overthinking this?

Over-thinking, Personally I would rather be under cals and miss protein than hit protein and be over cals.

It shouldn't be that hard to hit protein in the first place most people probably don't need much more than ~150g (600 cals) anyway.

FWIW a scoop of whey isolate has 25g protein in like 120 cals vs your milk at 500

[vrundmc]

Over-thinking, Personally I would rather be under cals and miss protein than hit protein and be over cals.

It shouldn't be that hard to hit protein in the first place most people probably don't need much more than ~150g (600 cals) anyway.

FWIW a scoop of whey isolate has 25g protein in like 120 cals vs your milk at 500

Yep...I eat 1400 cals/day right now and I rarely use whey powder. I eat real food and make it work. Sometimes I need like 20g of protein at the end of the night and I have cals to spare so I drink some whey. Supplement...

[DeathAtAFuneral]

I'm trying out the keto diet because it's easier for me to diet when I restrict carbs, I know that has nothing to do with the rules but for health purposes could I be eating too much fat? I eat multiple eggs, pieces of bacon and pieces of cheese everyday.

[iDrive]

Yep...I eat 1400 cals/day right now and I rarely use whey powder. I eat real food and make it work. Sometimes I need like 20g of protein at the end of the night and I have cals to spare so I drink some whey. Supplement...

That's how its supposed to work!

I'm trying out the keto diet because it's easier for me to diet when I restrict carbs, I know that has nothing to do with the rules but for health purposes could I be eating too much fat? I eat multiple eggs, pieces of bacon and pieces of cheese everyday.

Keto diets tend to fall into the 3 rules so you're fine. When you're in keto you need the fat. AFAIK there's nothing wrong with eating that much fat on keto. I'm not the most knowledgeable about that check the Keto section in the Nutrition forum

[Shr3dJunki3]

I'm trying out the keto diet because it's easier for me to diet when I restrict carbs, I know that has nothing to do with the rules but for health purposes could I be eating too much fat? I eat multiple eggs, pieces of bacon and pieces of cheese everyday.

Careful as an excess of protein will take you out of keto.

[Smoked33]

I'm trying out the keto diet because it's easier for me to diet when I restrict carbs, I know that has nothing to do with the rules but for health purposes could I be eating too much fat? I eat multiple eggs, pieces of bacon and pieces of cheese everyday.

I've done low carb on an off for over 10 years and had blood work done before and after several times to see what it was really doing to me.... nothing bad by the way As mentioned, don't worry about fat intake but make sure you're getting minimum of 2 liters of water a day... but favourably even more. The water helps flush out your system aside from it's other benefits.

When I low carb I have eggs and ham/sausage/bacon for breakfast, meatballs for lunch, peanuts and kolbassa for snacks, chicken/pork/cheese sausages/beef for dinner... pretty much all of it fad laden. There are great low-carb protein shake/bar suppliments too to help get your protein requirements.

[legends159]

Just showing this thread some love.

Since following the 3 simple rules I've lost 7.2lbs in one month -- with NO cardio (life is good)

Before following the 3 rules I only lost 3.8lbs the month before -- and I was doing cardio too which I dreaded.

My lifts have been consistent in the past two months so I hope I'm not losing much muscle mass. All my pants are too loose now though haha.

I never realized how important diet is until now. Without proper diet, you're wasting your workouts.

[dublinsworld]

Ive recently started a cut everyone. SO far, I've lost .3% bodyfat every week for 3 weeks. I wanted to lose 5% BF by may 18th, and my goal tracker states i must lose .4% every week. For some reason, I consistently lose.3%. My question... Is a .3% drop in BF a good rate???

I've also been losing about 2 pounds per week... Idont want too get scrawny

[AnchorNut]

Blah, I've been getting a net average of 1850 cals/day for two weeks as of today, and the scale has not moved at all. 152 pounds, give or take 0.2 each day.

I'd previously estimated my maintenance as 2500, based on a few online calculators and my rate of weight loss.

I typically eat about 2100 calories (plus or minus 100) per day, then on rest days I do an hour to an hour and a half of cardio and burn about 400-600 calories. So I end up getting a good amount more in terms of net calories on lifting days.

My average intake for the past two weeks is 1850. I'm pretty lean already, close to 10%, I'd wager.

Should I cut calories further, make any dietary/training/other changes, or give it a little more time?

[iDrive]

Just showing this thread some love.

Since following the 3 simple rules I've lost 7.2lbs in one month -- with NO cardio (life is good)

Before following the 3 rules I only lost 3.8lbs the month before -- and I was doing cardio too which I dreaded.

My lifts have been consistent in the past two months so I hope I'm not losing much muscle mass. All my pants are too loose now though haha.

I never realized how important diet is until now. Without proper diet, you're wasting your workouts.

GJDM

Ive recently started a cut everyone. SO far, I've lost .3% bodyfat every week for 3 weeks. I wanted to lose 5% BF by may 18th, and my goal tracker states i must lose .4% every week. For some reason, I consistently lose.3%. My question... Is a .3% drop in BF a good rate???

I've also been losing about 2 pounds per week... Idont want too get scrawny

You're too focused on the numbers, go until with you're happy with how you look then focus on adding mass. Many people overestimate the weight they'll weigh when they look acceptable. You'll either A) Go to that point or B) stop above that point and try to add mass and cut again

Blah, I've been getting a net average of 1850 cals/day for two weeks as of today, and the scale has not moved at all. 152 pounds, give or take 0.2 each day.

I'd previously estimated my maintenance as 2500, based on a few online calculators and my rate of weight loss.

I typically eat about 2100 calories (plus or minus 100) per day, then on rest days I do an hour to an hour and a half of cardio and burn about 400-600 calories. So I end up getting a good amount more in terms of net calories on lifting days.

My average intake for the past two weeks is 1850. I'm pretty lean already, close to 10%, I'd wager.

Should I cut calories further, make any dietary/training/other changes, or give it a little more time?

The lower the BF the harder it is.

Take exercise out of the equation, is your intake 2100 or 1800? Set the intake and then exercise will be a bonus. Your weight loss could be being masked by water weight.

Either way rule 3 takes care of this issue. The only answer is eat less or move more you can't really fight physics

[Canadianguy_22_]

just want to get your guys input,,,, Do you think eating 2300 cals a day would be a good deficit for someone thats trying to lose weight and is currently 335 LBS. Also does it matter how many carbs you eat a day? thanks guys I appreciate it

[iDrive]

Do you think eating 2300 cals a day would be a good deficit for someone thats trying to lose weight and is currently 335 LBS.

Should be, try and find out.

Also does it matter how many carbs you eat a day?

Nope