How to lose fat for Noobs - Part II

[th3pwn3r]

Another quick question.

In a thread I read earlier, someone stated that if you were at 6% bodyfat and ate your caloric maintenance level in ice cream, you would gain BF.

But if a calorie is a just a calorie (as Wavelength is saying, or I believe he is saying, correct me if I'm wrong), then that's not possible right? Body fat is created when you have a calorie surplus.

Am I right or wrong?

There are things such as thermic effect of foods. Anyhow, do you think you'd be able to maintain your lean body mass with a diet of pure ice cream?

[idz21]

There are things such as thermic effect of foods. Anyhow, do you think you'd be able to maintain your lean body mass with a diet of pure ice cream?

So a calorie is not just a calorie?

I honestly don't know... I've read a ton of threads in the nutrition forum and there's a lot of conflicting information. From what I've read and I may be way off, in fact with my level of knowledge, I probably am, clean vs. dirty foods are really irrelevant. Fat is burned by calories in and calories out. If you have a deficit and are getting ample protein, exercise, what foods you eat are irrelevant. Is that line of thinking wrong? Or maybe I'm confusing weight loss with maintenance? Are there different rules for maintenance?

As for the thermic effect of foods, I've read a little about that in the nutrition forum and I've seen people argue against it. Maybe they were using "broscience" as people call it here. I don't know. That's why I'm asking.

[godsangina2]

So a calorie is not just a calorie?

I honestly don't know... I've read a ton of threads in the nutrition forum and there's a lot of conflicting information. From what I've read and I may be way off, in fact with my level of knowledge, I probably am, clean vs. dirty foods are really irrelevant. Fat is burned by calories in and calories out. If you have a deficit and are getting ample protein, exercise, what foods you eat are irrelevant. Is that line of thinking wrong?

As for the thermic effect of foods, I've read a little about that in the nutrition forum and I've seen people argue against it. Maybe they were using "broscience" as people call it here. I don't know. That's why I'm asking.

A calorie is a calorie, look at the OP's cutting logs, he specifically ate a shiitload of icecream and got down to 8%.

[th3pwn3r]

A calorie is a calorie, look at the OP's cutting logs, he specifically ate a shiitload of icecream and got down to 8%.

He also consumed a proper amount of protein which you left out.

[godsangina2]

He also consumed a proper amount of protein which you left out.

I told him to look at the OP?

[mrprofits1]

about how many calories do i need to eat to lose weight?
i'm 5'7 about 190 if that helps.

[Suffering]

about how many calories do i need to eat to lose weight?
i'm 5'7 about 190 if that helps.

A quick rule is 10-12 cal/lb (20% reduction from a rough maintenance estimate of about 15 cal/lb or so), but I'd advice you to check out a thread in the Nutrition-section called "Calculating Calorie Needs and Macronutrients" (can't post links yet).

[blazeheavy]

I'm enjoying being a noob. The pros have it laid out already! GREATLY appreciate this post! Just started my first cut a week ago following this advice.

The community here is amazing and it looks like I'm going to be a regular visitor to the Losing Fat forum.

=)

[godsangina2]

lol another 2lbs of water weight in 2 days, by tomorrow I should be the weight I am supposed to be taking into account the two and a half weeks preceding this one beginning on last monday that I was retaining water for and not showing progress on the scale.

[th3pwn3r]

I told him to look at the OP?

Right, you said OP's cutting logs but you know people, they'll just think he ate SPECIFICALLY and only ice cream. I just figured I'd add some clarity.

lol another 2lbs of water weight in 2 days, by tomorrow I should be the weight I am supposed to be taking into account the two and a half weeks preceding this one beginning on last monday that I was retaining water for and not showing progress on the scale.

That whoosh effect will get ya. I wish I had progress to report on a weekly basis but I haven't stepped on a scale during this entire cut, I go by the mirror and how the pantaloons fit.

[godsangina2]

Right, you said OP's cutting logs but you know people, they'll just think he ate SPECIFICALLY and only ice cream. I just figured I'd add some clarity.



That whoosh effect will get ya. I wish I had progress to report on a weekly basis but I haven't stepped on a scale during this entire cut, I go by the mirror and how the pantaloons fit.

Yeah but particularly on a 1000kcal cut where I'm used to seeing a lb lost every 3/4 days it really fuks with your head when you are 2.5 weeks/5lbs stalled. In 6 and a half months that's only the second time that's happened, exact same thing happened about 3 months ago.

Also, I may or may not be finished now (either tomorrow or next week I'm going to start bulking), but I just thought I'd mention for the record that in 6 months of cutting at a 1000kcal deficit (53lbs, yes miscalculated calories a few times early on), my calorie intake of 1500kcals hasn't changed. Still losing the 2lbs a week like clockwork.

I don't know if that's been anyone elses experience but for me personally it puts paid to those calorie maintainence calculator things which tell me my maintainence should have dropped by a 1000 calories or something by now.

[jaybc]

Another quick question.

In a thread I read earlier, someone stated that if you were at 6% bodyfat and ate your caloric maintenance level in ice cream, you would gain BF.

But if a calorie is a just a calorie (as Wavelength is saying, or I believe he is saying, correct me if I'm wrong), then that's not possible right? Body fat is created when you have a calorie surplus.

Am I right or wrong?

So a calorie is not just a calorie?

I honestly don't know... I've read a ton of threads in the nutrition forum and there's a lot of conflicting information. From what I've read and I may be way off, in fact with my level of knowledge, I probably am, clean vs. dirty foods are really irrelevant. Fat is burned by calories in and calories out. If you have a deficit and are getting ample protein, exercise, what foods you eat are irrelevant. Is that line of thinking wrong? Or maybe I'm confusing weight loss with maintenance? Are there different rules for maintenance?

As for the thermic effect of foods, I've read a little about that in the nutrition forum and I've seen people argue against it. Maybe they were using "broscience" as people call it here. I don't know. That's why I'm asking.

I think you were referencing my post in another thread and just to clarify I was referring to eating ONLY ice cream. I was trying to distinguish between losing weight and a body recomp.

To clarify, your body needs macro nutrients like protein to build/maintain muscle. If you ate to maintenance but your diet lacked adequate protein, for example if you ate ONLY ice cream, your body would not be able to maintain its lean body mass. Maintaining macro splits and lifting while cutting will give you better results than just cals in < cals out while eating whatever you want.

A calorie is a calorie. But a caloric surplus created with proper macros while lifting will eventually result in gains of lean body mass. A caloric surplus without exercise and proper macros will result in fat gain.

[OtisBecker]

Well after 2 and a half weeks of water retention hell the water weight is finally dropping off, I've lost 3lbs in the last 3 days lol and will probably keep doing so for the next few days. Basically all the weight I should have lost in the last 2.5 weeks is happening now.

Cannot stress enough to do what Wave_Length says and wait three weeks before panicking and dropping calories.

You may hav just answered my question about why I have stalled..I am hoping beyond hope that water retention is my problem. But 2 and a half weeks, huh, who would have thunk it..

[iDrive]

Another quick question.

In a thread I read earlier, someone stated that if you were at 6% bodyfat and ate your caloric maintenance level in ice cream, you would gain BF.

I'll tell you when I get down to 6% BF and buy stock in Ben and Jerry's

But if a calorie is a just a calorie (as Wavelength is saying, or I believe he is saying, correct me if I'm wrong)

This post is merely the base guidelines for achieving optimal body composition. Nowhere in the first post is there any explicit mention of the word calories.

Body fat is created when you have a calorie surplus.

Am I right or wrong?

You are right.

I honestly don't know... I've read a ton of threads in the nutrition forum and there's a lot of conflicting information. From what I've read and I may be way off, in fact with my level of knowledge, I probably am, clean vs. dirty foods are really irrelevant. Fat is burned by calories in and calories out. If you have a deficit and are getting ample protein, exercise, what foods you eat are irrelevant. Is that line of thinking wrong?

Right on.

As for the thermic effect of foods, I've read a little about that in the nutrition forum and I've seen people argue against it. Maybe they were using "broscience" as people call it here. I don't know. That's why I'm asking.

TEF is physics (see: Law of conservation of energy)... if you can argue against physics then by all means.

In a nutshell, there are calories in your food that need to be broken down, in order to break the bonds energy must be expended, some nutrients take more energy to break down than others, voila, thermic effect of food.

The effect isn't really a deal-breaker in fat loss but note that protein has the highest TEF so it's beneficial to eat more protein as per rule 2

about how many calories do i need to eat to lose weight?
i'm 5'7 about 190 if that helps.

I'd say shoot for 1700-2200 for 3-4 weeks and then adjust based on rule 3

[godsangina2]

You may hav just answered my question about why I have stalled..I am hoping beyond hope that water retention is my problem. But 2 and a half weeks, huh, who would have thunk it..

I weigh 6lbs less than I did last monday lol.

[snoop16]

tinyurl.com/2utocsm - thats all you'll nedd for fat loss-.

[sportyaccordy]

What do u guys think/know about the effects of leptin on super low diets? Is anyone carb cycling?

[Kenshinhimora]

What do u guys think/know about the effects of leptin on super low diets? Is anyone carb cycling?

Heres a post by Martin on leptin:
http://www.leangains.com/2010/03/int...point-and.html

[FitnessDNA]

Great Topic, Currently looking to drop some Body Fat at the moment. I agree with your workout suggestion of Chest and Biceps, Back and Triceps. I find alternating that the muscle groups like that allows me to really focus on the Biceps or Triceps while their in a Fresh state.

[deadfingers]

I keep going back and forth on this, but I think I'm just going to concentrate on keeping calories low (no more than 2000) and protein high (shooting for 200g) and not worry so much about eating paleo or not. It's driving me nuts right now.

[sportyaccordy]

Heres a post by Martin on leptin:
http://www.leangains.com/2010/03/int...point-and.html

I read that previously which I why I asked. Wouldn't dropping down to a 1000 calorie a day deficit lower one's BMR? I remember on my first cut when I did that my gym performance blew chunks, and I think my immune system was weakened as I got a nasty throat infection

[th3pwn3r]

What do u guys think/know about the effects of leptin on super low diets? Is anyone carb cycling?

Keeping leptin under control becomes much more difficult when you're on a VLCD in my opinion and you don't allow yourself any cheat meals or days.

Great Topic, Currently looking to drop some Body Fat at the moment. I agree with your workout suggestion of Chest and Biceps, Back and Triceps. I find alternating that the muscle groups like that allows me to really focus on the Biceps or Triceps while their in a Fresh state.

I don't think it matters too much. If you're going to train chest and triceps on different days or even back and biceps on different days just make sure you're allowing them to recover as you hit biceps during back training and you hit triceps during chest.

[deadfingers]

I have a question, if you end up meeting your daily caloric limit, but haven't met your protein needs do you call it a loss on the protein and do better the next day or take a protein shake and go over your calorie limit for the day?

[th3pwn3r]

I have a question, if you end up meeting your daily caloric limit, but haven't met your protein needs do you call it a loss on the protein and do better the next day or take a protein shake and go over your calorie limit for the day?

You certainly shouldn't worry about it too much. Missing a single day isn't a huge deal. Now if this keeps up day after day I can't exactly say what will happen but you might not have as good of results as possible. Think of it as insurance against losing lean body mass.

[deadfingers]

You certainly shouldn't worry about it too much. Missing a single day isn't a huge deal. Now if this keeps up day after day I can't exactly say what will happen but you might not have as good of results as possible. Think of it as insurance against losing lean body mass.

So missing out on protein requirements in lieu of keeping calories low for that day is better then is what you're saying? I know there are some days where I end up eating to my limit then "fuuu" when I see how much protein I actually ate.

[sportyaccordy]

Keeping leptin under control becomes much more difficult when you're on a VLCD in my opinion and you don't allow yourself any cheat meals or days.

What is VLCD? And w/carb cycling, to a degree you get like 3-4 "cheat" days a week. I'm trying a mix of IF & carb cycling now to lose a stubborn 5# or so; hopefully it should work.

[th3pwn3r]

So missing out on protein requirements in lieu of keeping calories low for that day is better then is what you're saying? I know there are some days where I end up eating to my limit then "fuuu" when I see how much protein I actually ate.

You should already have your protein intake planned out before your day even starts to make sure you don't fall short. It's not going to be the end of the world if you aren't spot on with your protein, your muscles aren't going to disappear overnight. It's just insurance as I've said, it's better safe than sorry.

What is VLCD? And w/carb cycling, to a degree you get like 3-4 "cheat" days a week. I'm trying a mix of IF & carb cycling now to lose a stubborn 5# or so; hopefully it should work.

A VLCD is a very low calorie diet. Carb cycling is better for those prepping for a contest IMO, if not for that I wouldn't bother with it but if you must...I suggest higher carb days be matched with days of training or higher versus rest days.

[sportyaccordy]

You should already have your protein intake planned out before your day even starts to make sure you don't fall short. It's not going to be the end of the world if you aren't spot on with your protein, your muscles aren't going to disappear overnight. It's just insurance as I've said, it's better safe than sorry.





A VLCD is a very low calorie diet. Carb cycling is better for those prepping for a contest IMO, if not for that I wouldn't bother with it but if you must...I suggest higher carb days be matched with days of training or higher versus rest days.

Seems like carb cycling makes more sense than VLCDs then no? Leptin maintenance -> higher BMR -> fat metabolism + muscle maintenance. Right? Wouldn't long term carb cycling make for maintaining low body fat?

[RaulCG2]

guys i have been stuck at 143 lbs for a month. Eating 1200-1400 calories everyday and working out 3 times a week. Why cant I lose more fat?

5'9, 143 lbs

Need serious help!

[th3pwn3r]

guys i have been stuck at 143 lbs for a month. Eating 1200-1400 calories everyday and working out 3 times a week. Why cant I lose more fat?

5'9, 143 lbs

Need serious help!

You're probably under-estimating your caloric intake. It takes a lot of losses in mass for your metabolic rate to slow down a lot.