How long does it take?

[HairyScandinavian]

Just figured I'd throw the question out here, where should one expect to be after about 2 years of training at this age? 3.5 years in the gym 3-4 days a week, but I subtract 1.5 off the beginning due to lack of proper diet (not eating enough) and just call it 2 years.

I'm getting a bit frustrated with my progress lately. I've been very consistent for over 2 years now and feel like I'm not making the progress I should considering how much work I've put in. Bulk attempts seem to just get me fat and when I cut I swear I lose all the muscle and strength I've built up and start over from scratch, even when weight loss is tracked at 1lb/week almost exactly. Thinking I may be "doing it wrong" I've tried more than a few different popular program and diet combinations and always seem to have the same results. Anyhow, how much progress should one expect, in general of course obviously with no details and individual variances there's a wide range of possibilities.

[Zigurd]

I would advice you to clean bulk then. Try to focus on a routine that has a lot of compound movements in which you could train a bodypart at least twice a week. For example:

day 1 - chest/tris
day 2 - back/bis
day 3 - legs/shoulders
day 4 - day 1
day 5 - day 2
day 6 - day 3

You rest one day a week. Then you should focus on adding weight to the exercises you are performing. At least every two weeks one of the exercises should be done with more weight/reps. If you keep adding weight, you will grow. This is what helped me. Also, these exercises are awesome and you should add them to your routine if you dont have them already: bench press, weighted dips, weighted pull-ups, squats, lunges, deadlifts, dumbbell rows. If you go up in weight in those, you will grow brah !

[ironwill2008]

There's absolutely no way to answer your question.

[merlinsrealm]

There's absolutely no way to answer your question.

Agreed, No way to answer your question. So many things come into play. Have you logged your diet / food? Have you logged your routines? Any health issues? Sleep habits? Daily lifestyle? Etc, Etc, Etc.......

[glsfitness]

Bulk attempts seem to just get me fat and when I cut I swear I lose all the muscle and strength I've built up and start over from scratch, even when weight loss is tracked at 1lb/week almost exactly.

Frank Zane: I tried bulking up a few times and it was always a disaster. It was just a loss of about a year because you get back to what you looked like originally. What happened when I did that...Actually I did that for training for the 1972 professional Mr. Universe in London. I got up to about almost 210, huge thighs. I got pretty smooth. About 5 weeks before the contest I realized I had a lot of work to do, so I dropped about 10 pounds, came in around the mid 190s and won the show. But I noticed that I was not as defined as I was the year before because I bulked up. The year before I didn’t, so I learned from that.

And that was not the last time I made that mistake. I learned that really for me not to go above 5 percent over my competitive weight that meant staying under 200 or even in the lower 190s. I was not focused on body weight, I was more focused on what I looked like. You know what difference does the numbers make. You are not judged on that, you are judged on what you looked like

Full Interview http://www.muscleandstrength.com/art...rank-zane.html

[-=FLEX=-]

There's absolutely no way to answer your question.

You sure about that?







-=FLEX=-

[merlinsrealm]

Indeed, Flex is right. I forgot. This is what I use

http://web.ics.purdue.edu/~ssanty/cgi-bin/eightball.cgi

[HairyScandinavian]

Yeah guys I know there's no answer, just trying to get a general idea as per what kind of expectations others would have after a few years. I don't have any friends who workout that I can compare to. I can say that I lift a hell of a lot more than other guys in some exercises, and a hell of a lot less in others.

Agreed, No way to answer your question. So many things come into play. Have you logged your diet / food? Have you logged your routines? Any health issues? Sleep habits? Daily lifestyle? Etc, Etc, Etc.......

I've logged everything, I have about 18 months of workout logs through various programs laying around somewhere but I haven't logged in a while because nothing changes all that much anymore even when I vary things and change stuff. My wife hates me because I won't eat any of her food and weigh everything that goes into my body. As for the sleep, when I started I was getting 5-6 hours and then I had about 6 months in between jobs where I got 10-11 hours of sleep nightly, now I'm roughly 8-9 but I work nights so on weekends I'm usually up 26 or so hours and double flip my schedule back and forth. Seems like I haven't noticed any differences whatsoever regarding sleep. No health issues that I know of other than I did do something to my shoulder that's just now healing. I've had a full cholesterol workup and doc was jealous.

[ironwill2008]

Here's a very general rule of thumb:

For a stone-cold noob, who does everything correctly (and how often does that happen?), somewhere between 10 and 30 pounds of lean mass the first year.

For an experienced trainee, who does everything correctly, somewhere between 5 and 10 pounds of lean mass per year.


I shouldn't even have bothered to post this, since there are so many variables involved, but figured, WTH.

[HairyScandinavian]

Here's a very general rule of thumb:

For a stone-cold noob, who does everything correctly (and how often does that happen?), somewhere between 10 and 30 pounds of lean mass the first year.

For an experienced trainee, who does everything correctly, somewhere between 5 and 10 pounds of lean mass per year.


I shouldn't even have bothered to post this, since there are so many variables involved, but figured, WTH.

Thx. Pretty sure I'm failing miserably then.

I'll reevaluate yet again, but I'm not gonna stop lifting either way.

[weigesco]

There are times that I get the same feeling that you do. I feel that if I can add 2-3 lbs. of muscle a year I have done pretty good. I am definitely not where I think I should be if I look at it from the work done in the gym perspective but then I look over my diet and the culprit becomes a little clearer. I am sure though if you look back at where you were when you started there will be changes for the better.

[ironwill2008]

Thx. Pretty sure I'm failing miserably then.

I'll reevaluate yet again, but I'm not gonna stop lifting either way.

This may be of some interest to you; one or more of your problems is going to be contained in this list. I re-posted this in here a few weeks ago:

http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showpo...41&postcount=1

[HairyScandinavian]

There are times that I get the same feeling that you do. I feel that if I can add 2-3 lbs. of muscle a year I have done pretty good. I am definitely not where I think I should be if I look at it from the work done in the gym perspective but then I look over my diet and the culprit becomes a little clearer. I am sure though if you look back at where you were when you started there will be changes for the better.

Oh definitely, when I started 3.5 years ago I was 245 lbs of fat. Now people make passing comments about my physique so I'm way better off than before no doubt.

This may be of some interest to you; one or more of your problems is going to be contained in this list. I re-posted this in here a few weeks ago:

http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showpo...41&postcount=1

Thx I'll go look, already repped you.

[JerryB]

Just figured I'd throw the question out here, where should one expect to be after about 2 years of training at this age? 3.5 years in the gym 3-4 days a week, but I subtract 1.5 off the beginning due to lack of proper diet (not eating enough) and just call it 2 years.

I'm getting a bit frustrated with my progress lately. I've been very consistent for over 2 years now and feel like I'm not making the progress I should considering how much work I've put in. Bulk attempts seem to just get me fat and when I cut I swear I lose all the muscle and strength I've built up and start over from scratch, even when weight loss is tracked at 1lb/week almost exactly. Thinking I may be "doing it wrong" I've tried more than a few different popular program and diet combinations and always seem to have the same results. Anyhow, how much progress should one expect, in general of course obviously with no details and individual variances there's a wide range of possibilities.

You question is difficult to answer for the following reasons:

1. You had not provided photos of your physique in your BodySpace profile to see if you are ectomorph, thin build; mesomorph, muscular build; or Endomorph, easily gain body fat. Or what combination of the three.

2. You have not provided details of your training other than you are in the gym 3 to 4 days. What is your routine when you are in the gym?

3. What is your diet when you are bulking or cutting?

I started bodybuilding weight training when I was 34. I made good progress regardless to starting at that age.

[HairyScandinavian]

You question is difficult to answer for the following reasons:

1. You had not provided photos of your physique in your BodySpace profile to see if you are ectomorph, thin build; mesomorph, muscular build; or Endomorph, easily gain body fat. Or what combination of the three.

2. You have not provided details of your training other than you are in the gym 3 to 4 days. What is your routine when you are in the gym?

3. What is your diet when you are bulking or cutting?

I started bodybuilding weight training when I was 34. I made good progress regardless to starting at that age.

definitely an endomorph. I left out the details because I'm not asking for critique of my diet or routine, I've done enough research to nail all that down solid. I just get a bit impatient I guess and wanted an idea of what kind of time frame is normal, which ironwill provided. Unfortunately I seem to have missed out on the 10-30 lbs of noob gains in te first year, but in hindsight, there's no way I didn't add 5 lbs of meat over the last year so I guess I'm doing OK, I just wish it was faster.

[Smelly bull]

Just figured I'd throw the question out here, where should one expect to be after about 2 years of training at this age? 3.5 years in the gym 3-4 days a week, but I subtract 1.5 off the beginning due to lack of proper diet (not eating enough) and just call it 2 years.

I'm getting a bit frustrated with my progress lately. I've been very consistent for over 2 years now and feel like I'm not making the progress I should considering how much work I've put in. Bulk attempts seem to just get me fat and when I cut I swear I lose all the muscle and strength I've built up and start over from scratch, even when weight loss is tracked at 1lb/week almost exactly. Thinking I may be "doing it wrong" I've tried more than a few different popular program and diet combinations and always seem to have the same results. Anyhow, how much progress should one expect, in general of course obviously with no details and individual variances there's a wide range of possibilities.

Determine your goals 1st. Kinda looks like you are all over the place, getting ripped and gaining strength usually don't go hand in hand. When I lose weight, I lose strength..

[terry917]

This was an article I need to read. Having admired Frank Zane but knowing little about his background, this helped, even at my age. Good add to this thread.

Frank Zane: I tried bulking up a few times and it was always a disaster. It was just a loss of about a year because you get back to what you looked like originally. What happened when I did that...Actually I did that for training for the 1972 professional Mr. Universe in London. I got up to about almost 210, huge thighs. I got pretty smooth. About 5 weeks before the contest I realized I had a lot of work to do, so I dropped about 10 pounds, came in around the mid 190s and won the show. But I noticed that I was not as defined as I was the year before because I bulked up. The year before I didn’t, so I learned from that.

And that was not the last time I made that mistake. I learned that really for me not to go above 5 percent over my competitive weight that meant staying under 200 or even in the lower 190s. I was not focused on body weight, I was more focused on what I looked like. You know what difference does the numbers make. You are not judged on that, you are judged on what you looked like

Full Interview http://www.muscleandstrength.com/art...rank-zane.html

[JOHN GARGANI]

definitely an endomorph. I left out the details because I'm not asking for critique of my diet or routine, I've done enough research to nail all that down solid. I just get a bit impatient I guess and wanted an idea of what kind of time frame is normal, which ironwill provided. Unfortunately I seem to have missed out on the 10-30 lbs of noob gains in te first year, but in hindsight, there's no way I didn't add 5 lbs of meat over the last year so I guess I'm doing OK, I just wish it was faster.

HAIRY: if you really have it "nailed down all solid", then you would be getting the results you seek...

obviously, it isn't really nailed down.....

so: If we are not to be privy to any details of your training and diet, what then can we do to help you, except to cheerlead ( ie: "hang in there bro").....

[HairyScandinavian]

HAIRY: if you really have it "nailed down all solid", then you would be getting the results you seek...

obviously, it isn't really nailed down.....

so: If we are not to be privy to any details of your training and diet, what then can we do to help you, except to cheerlead ( ie: "hang in there bro").....

I think the results I seek were unrealistic, y'all set me straight on that. I just need to be happy with 5lbs per year instead of wanting more. There's obviously improvements to be made with everything I'm doing but I'll get to that in time.

[JerryB]

definitely an endomorph. I left out the details because I'm not asking for critique of my diet or routine, I've done enough research to nail all that down solid. I just get a bit impatient I guess and wanted an idea of what kind of time frame is normal, which ironwill provided. Unfortunately I seem to have missed out on the 10-30 lbs of noob gains in te first year, but in hindsight, there's no way I didn't add 5 lbs of meat over the last year so I guess I'm doing OK, I just wish it was faster.

When I started in my mid 30s I weighted about 165 lbs with about 15% body fat. My height is 5’ 7”. I continued to gain muscle mass in my 40s and 50s. In my 40s my total body weight averaged about 185 lbs with body fat about 13%. When I was in my 50s my total body weight ranged from 206 lbs to 215 lbs with body fat ranging for 11% to 15%. My lean mass when from appropriately 141 lbs in my mid 30s and increased to a high of about 185 lbs in my 50s.
Now that I’m in my 60s my total body weight ranges from 185 lbs to 190 lbs. My body fat ranges from 10% to 8%. The only reason I am keeping my bodyfat in this low range is due to competing in ultra grandmasters bodybuilding.

[chodan9]

I think the results I seek were unrealistic, y'all set me straight on that. I just need to be happy with 5lbs per year instead of wanting more. There's obviously improvements to be made with everything I'm doing but I'll get to that in time.

that doesn't sound like much to some, but its pretty on target for me.
But look at it this way, if 5 short years of consistent training you will have added 25 pounds of lean mass to your frame (this is exactly what I have done). Thats enough to completely transform the way you look.
Ignore the supplement adds that claim you will gain "30 pounds of rack hard muscle" in 6 weeks etc.
Ain't gonna happen naturally

[HairyScandinavian]

When I started in my mid 30s I weighted about 165 lbs with about 15% body fat. My height is 5’ 7”. I continued to gain muscle mass in my 40s and 50s. In my 40s my total body weight averaged about 185 lbs with body fat about 13%. When I was in my 50s my total body weight ranged from 206 lbs to 215 lbs with body fat ranging for 11% to 15%. My lean mass when from appropriately 141 lbs in my mid 30s and increased to a high of about 185 lbs in my 50s.
Now that I’m in my 60s my total body weight ranges from 185 lbs to 190 lbs. My body fat ranges from 10% to 8%. The only reason I am keeping my bodyfat in this low range is due to competing in ultra grandmasters bodybuilding.

Extremely helpful, thanks!

that doesn't sound like much to some, but its pretty on target for me.
But look at it this way, if 5 short years of consistent training you will have added 25 pounds of lean mass to your frame (this is exactly what I have done). Thats enough to completely transform the way you look.
Ignore the supplement adds that claim you will gain "30 pounds of rack hard muscle" in 6 weeks etc.
Ain't gonna happen naturally

That's exactly what I finally figured out the other day when I started thinking about what ironwill said, I figure 5 years for 25 lbs if I can keep up that rate I'll be pretty dang pleased with myself. I was just getting impatient wanting things to come too fast.

[*STEVE*]

Just figured I'd throw the question out here, where should one expect to be after about 2 years of training at this age? .

easy , youll be benchin tree fiddy

[BrotherWolf]

HAIRY: if you really have it "nailed down all solid", then you would be getting the results you seek...

Sometimes expectations are too high .. what he wishes might not be the same as what he can achieve