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  1. #1
    Registered User hardgainingendo's Avatar
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    MASSIVE SHOULDERS-lateral raises or shoulder press?

    to build mass on medial delt (and delt as a whole) are lateral raises better? or shoulder press?

    im looking to build huge shoulders and i do lateral raises, i work rear delts, and i just let my front delts grow from bench synergy, but i have a friend with massive delts that never does lateral raises(he says) and the only shoulder work ive seen him do is shoulder press.

    so what do u guys think is the best way to build huge shoulders? lateral raises or shoulder press?
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    Lack of iron &or sleeping SuffolkPunch's Avatar
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    Both

    lower reps on press (6-8), higher reps on LR (8-12)
    My Daily Undulating Periodisation log: http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=163624691&p=1318505821&viewfull=1#post1318505821
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    Originally Posted by SuffolkPunch View Post
    Both

    lower reps on press (6-8), higher reps on LR (8-12)

    perfect answer
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    Registered User DTerminator2's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by hardgainingendo View Post
    to build mass on medial delt (and delt as a whole) are lateral raises better? or shoulder press?

    im looking to build huge shoulders and i do lateral raises, i work rear delts, and i just let my front delts grow from bench synergy, but i have a friend with massive delts that never does lateral raises(he says) and the only shoulder work ive seen him do is shoulder press.

    so what do u guys think is the best way to build huge shoulders? lateral raises or shoulder press?
    You should do a balance of shoulder press, lateral raises, front raises and rear deltoid flyes so you end up with a proper muscle balance.
    "Hard gainer" trying hard to reach 215-220 lbs.
    Bench Press 325 lbs
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    Registered User vincevaught's Avatar
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    huge shoulders

    Originally Posted by hardgainingendo View Post
    to build mass on medial delt (and delt as a whole) are lateral raises better? or shoulder press?

    im looking to build huge shoulders and i do lateral raises, i work rear delts, and i just let my front delts grow from bench synergy, but i have a friend with massive delts that never does lateral raises(he says) and the only shoulder work ive seen him do is shoulder press.

    so what do u guys think is the best way to build huge shoulders? lateral raises or shoulder press?
    your friend may of been blessed with great genetic shoulders. use the big compound
    upper body push movements for big & strong shoulders. develop your strength in the
    overhead presses, dips, & benches. correct disciplined lateral raises and the other
    isolated shoulder stuff can be done for pre-exhaust or finishing, but focus on the
    big ones for growth.......nothing behind the head and no upright rows !!
    Last edited by vincevaught; 11-13-2010 at 08:51 AM. Reason: forgot to tell him something
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  6. #6
    Registered User vincevaught's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by vincevaught View Post
    your friend may of been blessed with great genetic shoulders. use the big compound
    upper body push movements for big & strong shoulders. develop your strength in the
    overhead presses, dips, & benches. correct disciplined lateral raises and the other
    isolated shoulder stuff can be done for pre-exhaust or finishing, but focus on the
    big ones for growth.......nothing behind the head and no upright rows !!
    noticed your name "Hardgainer" , did you ever read the mag ? I was on the cover
    issue #77
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    Registered User norref123's Avatar
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    If I want to choose just one between the two witch one should that be
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    Originally Posted by norref123 View Post
    If I want to choose just one between the two witch one should that be
    Man that makes me think of the time where one of the PTs in my gym held a glock to my head and was all like "presses or raises biatch".

    I decided to do curls instead.
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  9. #9
    Registered User hardgainingendo's Avatar
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    but i bench press twice a week...and i dont wanna overtrain my frontal delts by doing a lot of shoulder pressing....should i do it neway? i ask because my bis and tris are bigger than my shoulders and i think it kinda looks wierd
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    Originally Posted by BombDonald View Post
    Man that makes me think of the time where one of the PTs in my gym held a glock to my head and was all like "presses or raises biatch".

    I decided to do curls instead.
    That's weird, the same thing happened to me. I chose squats.
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    If you want huge strong shoulders do this routine and in no time you'll be swoll.
    Side lateral- set 1 LBS x's 5, LBS+5 x's 5, LBS+5 x's 5. Next set repeat dropping lowest weight and adding next +5. Two sets only.
    Partial Clean and press wide 4 sets as heavy as possible not breaking 6-8 reps,
    Bent over barbell rows, 3-4 sets as heavy as can not breaking 6-8 reps.

    Do not worry that the routine is shorter than others, do not try to add to it, and don't get hopped up on to much preworkout energizer's as this will rock your body into submishing.
    Proving to a know it all is a waste of time, Proving to yourself is a fun time.
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    Originally Posted by norref123 View Post
    If I want to choose just one between the two witch one should that be
    presses
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    Registered User hardgainingendo's Avatar
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    but i do bench press twice a week, so wouldnt doing shoulder press cause me to overtrain front delts?
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    Originally Posted by hardgainingendo View Post
    but i do bench press twice a week, so wouldnt doing shoulder press cause me to overtrain front delts?
    Um why are you benching twice a week? and yes it will over train your front delts if you do shoulder press and bench twice a week. If you want bigger shoulders then you need to do shoulder press. Front shoulder press works your front delts more, behind the head works your medial delts more. Lateral raise works your side delts, and you need to do rear delts raises to form a complete shoulder. Reverse peck delts works well for rear delts also.

    YOU DON'T NEED TO BENCH TWICE A WEEK TO ADD MASS OR STRENGTH TO YOUR CHEST. one good chest workout once a week will be more than enough. I used to bench twice a week when I first started working out and then switched to once a week and my chest grew a lot a I bench 355 easily now.
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  15. #15
    Registered User Kelei's Avatar
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    Upright rows (shoulder width grip or slightly narrower) have done more for my side delts than any other exercise, I don't directly train my front or rear delts because they already get blasted with all the benching and rowing I do. I also perform side lateral raises to finish off my side delts after upright rows.

    - Upright Rows (8 reps)
    - Side Lateral Raises (15 reps)

    That's what I use for my side delts and it gets the job done just fine. I used to use overhead press aswell but dropped it a long time ago because I got nothing out of it, it's not a great side delt exercise and primarily only trains the front delts (with any real intensity). Performing overhead press for my front delts after benching 40 or 50 sets is kinda redundant
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  16. #16
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    This is a great shoulder workout, it hits the front, side and rear delts. It is important the exercises are done in the order. It is a methodical attack on the shoulder that will produce great results if done with strict form.

    Arnold Press- WU 1x12, 3x4-8

    Dumbbell Shoulder Press- WU 1x12, 3x4-8

    Side Lateral Raises- WU 1x15, 1x8-10, 1X4-6

    Rear Delt Flys- WU 1x15, 1x8-10, 1X4-6

    Keep the warmups super light and the last super heavy. 10 working sets total.
    "The greatest obstacle each of us must overcome is ourselves." -some wise guy
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    Originally Posted by hardgainingendo View Post
    but i do bench press twice a week, so wouldnt doing shoulder press cause me to overtrain front delts?
    No. Overhead pressing is an important movement for balancing your bench work. So are heavy pulls.
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    Originally Posted by Farley1324 View Post
    Overhead pressing is an important movement for balancing your bench work.
    How so?
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    Originally Posted by SuffolkPunch View Post
    Both

    lower reps on press (6-8), higher reps on LR (8-12)
    this ^^^ proven method for big shoulders.
    Cause back in School we are the leaders of ALL!!!
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    Originally Posted by Kelei View Post
    Upright rows (shoulder width grip or slightly narrower) have done more for my side delts than any other exercise, I don't directly train my front or rear delts because they already get blasted with all the benching and rowing I do. I also perform side lateral raises to finish off my side delts after upright rows.

    - Upright Rows (8 reps)
    - Side Lateral Raises (15 reps)

    That's what I use for my side delts and it gets the job done just fine. I used to use overhead press aswell but dropped it a long time ago because I got nothing out of it, it's not a great side delt exercise and primarily only trains the front delts (with any real intensity). Performing overhead press for my front delts after benching 40 or 50 sets is kinda redundant
    True, side delts seem completely neglected by many on this forum. I'd recommend some form of side delt work to even beginners.
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    Originally Posted by Kelei View Post
    How so?
    Balancing development of the shoulder girdle muscles. Press and pulling exercises both.

    I'm going with what I have read from guys like Rippetoe, though I'm pretty sure I have read similar from others. I can't find a Starr quote on it off the top of my head, but it seems I have read it somewhere.
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    Originally Posted by SuffolkPunch View Post
    Both

    lower reps on press (6-8), higher reps on LR (8-12)
    5x5 on press and 10-10-10 on LR
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    Not doing shoulder press because you already worked your front delts benching is kinda like saying you only want to do one exercise per muscle group.

    Would you not do tricep dips because you already did narrow grip bench press? Probably not...its fine to do them both

    I do a full shoulder workout right after chest on my push day(chest, shoulder, tricep)
    I have to go a little lighter on the delts because the delts were already worked a little while doing chest...but its not overtraining
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    Originally Posted by BrianGr View Post
    Not doing shoulder press because you already worked your front delts benching is kinda like saying you only want to do one exercise per muscle group.
    No, it's saying one area of a muscle has been worked adequately (for him), so it makes more sense to move to an exercise that works a different part of the muscle ie upright rows/lat raises.
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    dumbbell and barbell military shoulder press.

    thats all you need for shoulders.
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    To build mass, its almost always the exercise that allows you to push the most weight. So in this case, if you had to choose one, presses would build the most mass.
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    Originally Posted by Farley1324 View Post
    Balancing development of the shoulder girdle muscles. Press and pulling exercises both.

    I'm going with what I have read from guys like Rippetoe, though I'm pretty sure I have read similar from others. I can't find a Starr quote on it off the top of my head, but it seems I have read it somewhere.
    Sounds like nonsense to me. You balance the shoulder girdle by rowing and using external shoulder rotation exercises, not by adding even more pressing.
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    Originally Posted by Kelei View Post
    Sounds like nonsense to me. You balance the shoulder girdle by rowing and using external shoulder rotation exercises, not by adding even more pressing.
    Benching =/= pressing, though.

    And yes, of course, pulls weight prominently. Starr will say rear delts and traps are important for shoulder girdle health
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    Originally Posted by Farley1324 View Post
    Benching =/= pressing, though.
    Overhead pressing and benching are far more similar than most people think, especially when you compare incline benching to overhead pressing. I don't think you understand what balancing a muscle group means, you balance a muscle group by training its opposing muscle group.

    The only way overhead pressing would balance benching is if overhead pressing trained the muscle groups that oppose the muscle groups involved in benching. In regards to benching the primary muscles involved are the chest, front delts, triceps and internal rotators, this would mean that the opposing muscle groups would be rhomboids, rear delts, biceps, external rotators etc. I can safely tell you that overhead press does not work these muscle groups primarily, overhead press primarily trains the front delts, triceps, internal rotators, side delts (to small degree) and chest (to an even smaller degree).
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    Originally Posted by Kelei View Post
    Overhead pressing and benching are far more similar than most people think, especially when you compare incline benching to overhead pressing. I don't think you understand what balancing a muscle group means, you balance a muscle group by training its opposing muscle group.

    The only way overhead pressing would balance benching is if overhead pressing trained the muscle groups that oppose the muscle groups involved in benching. In regards to benching the primary muscles involved are the chest, front delts, triceps and internal rotators, this would mean that the opposing muscle groups would be rhomboids, rear delts, biceps, external rotators etc. I can safely tell you that overhead press does not work these muscle groups primarily, overhead press primarily trains the front delts, triceps, internal rotators, side delts (to small degree) and chest (to an even smaller degree).


    Example: Tak it for what it's worth:

    Originally Posted by SS 2nd Edition beginning p. 153
    But athletes that never do anything but bench press tend to have more shoulder problems than thsoe who include overhead training. With all the pressing emphasis directed to the anterior side of the shoulder, the posterior gets relatively weak. Since it is possible to bench very heavy weights with years of training, this strength imbalance can be very pronounced. The posteior shoulder musculature includes the very important rotator cuff group(the external rotators), the muscles responsible for decedlerating the internal humeral rotation during throwing movements.

    The rotator cuff basically consists of the muscles on and imediately beneath the shoulder blades, and although they do not work directly in a press, they are used in the movement and are strengthened. The bench press does not work them much, certainly not much in comparison to the loads being handled by the pectorals and anterior deltoids, which function as the main internal rtatos of the humerus.....
    Bill Starr also discusses the importance of muscles which you did not list, such as traps.

    http://startingstrength.com/articles...raps_starr.pdf
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