Bodybuilding.com Information Motivation Supplementation
in:

    The World’s #1 Bodybuilding And Fitness Forum - Save Up To 50% Off Retail Prices In Our Bodybuilding.com Store!

Reply
Results 1 to 17 of 17
  1. #1
    Registered User MikaK65's Avatar
    Join Date: Nov 2010
    Age: 49
    Posts: 5
    Rep Power: 0
    MikaK65 is on a distinguished road. (+10)
    MikaK65 is offline

    Question In which order does protein/fat really get burned

    So... I've read that on first burns carbs, then fat, then protein...

    It seems most are of the opinion that one can't gain muscle and lose fat simultaneously which would be some contradictory to the above if all fat would be burned before protein is touched.

    I mean the body has fat storages (in cells which we really want to get rid of) that would get consumed to cover calorie deficit before the protein gets transferred into energy instead of getting into it's aimed purpose to building your muscles.

    So... In other words does the above order regard only fat that has still not gotten into fat cells ie. the actual burning order would be
    1) Carbs still in digestion
    2) Fat still in digestion
    3) Protein still in digestion
    4) Fat from fat cells
    5) Eventually muscle tissue

    Now the above looks some contraditory to the fact that we know there are cases where people have gained some muscle while on calorie deficit diets albeit it's slower than gaining muscle mass by bulking.

    Further... what about glycogen tied in muscles is that a part of 5) above or does it burn at som other point?

    Thank you for any insight regarding the correct order.
    Reply With Quote

  2. #2
    Registered User JustinPSherman's Avatar
    Join Date: Apr 2010
    Location: Massachusetts, United States
    Age: 22
    Stats: 5'11", 227 lbs
    Posts: 3,760
    Rep Power: 4071
    JustinPSherman has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) JustinPSherman has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) JustinPSherman has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) JustinPSherman has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) JustinPSherman has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) JustinPSherman has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) JustinPSherman has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) JustinPSherman has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) JustinPSherman has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) JustinPSherman has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) JustinPSherman has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000)
    Visit JustinPSherman's BodySpace
    JustinPSherman is offline
    In for the answer to this, been wonderin&# 103; for a long ass time.
    Reply With Quote

  3. #3
    Chasing cats since 1967 WonderPug's Avatar
    Join Date: Sep 2010
    Location: New York, New York, United States
    Stats: 5'10", 192 lbs
    Posts: 50,968
    Rep Power: 169855
    WonderPug has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) WonderPug has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) WonderPug has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) WonderPug has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) WonderPug has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) WonderPug has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) WonderPug has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) WonderPug has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) WonderPug has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) WonderPug has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) WonderPug has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000)
    Visit WonderPug's BodySpace
    WonderPug is offline
    I think you might be taking a tad bit too simplistic view of how nutrition works and I fear I don't have the energy right now to explain in detail.

    Thus, here's the two second version: macronutrients are used for different purposes, such as repair, cellular energy, etc. The body can run mostly on ketones, for example, when dietary carbs are dramatically reduced, but protein will then preferentially be converted to maintain blood sugar, etc. When there's an abundance of carbs but insufficient dietary protein, then muscle wasting occurs.

    In other words, you really have to have at least a basic understanding of how energy requires are satisfied and how nutritions are partitioned to maintain bodily functions.
    Reply With Quote

  4. #4
    Registered User kusok's Avatar
    Join Date: Sep 2009
    Location: United States
    Stats: 6'2", 210 lbs
    Posts: 18,755
    Rep Power: 30727
    kusok has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) kusok has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) kusok has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) kusok has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) kusok has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) kusok has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) kusok has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) kusok has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) kusok has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) kusok has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) kusok has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000)
    Visit kusok's BodySpace
    kusok is offline
    at the same time.
    Reply With Quote

  5. #5
    USAPL Nut Hugger ErickStevens's Avatar
    Join Date: Jun 2005
    Location: Sarasota, Florida, United States
    Stats: 6'0", 195 lbs
    Posts: 23,129
    Rep Power: 72076
    ErickStevens has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) ErickStevens has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) ErickStevens has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) ErickStevens has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) ErickStevens has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) ErickStevens has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) ErickStevens has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) ErickStevens has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) ErickStevens has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) ErickStevens has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) ErickStevens has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000)
    Visit ErickStevens's BodySpace
    ErickStevens is online now
    ITT: Over-complication.
    "Nutrition for powerlifting: If you are serious about it, you will eat f*cking everything and get strong as $hit." - HamburgerTrain
    http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=155661573&pagenumber=
    Reply With Quote

  6. #6
    Registered User MikaK65's Avatar
    Join Date: Nov 2010
    Age: 49
    Posts: 5
    Rep Power: 0
    MikaK65 is on a distinguished road. (+10)
    MikaK65 is offline

    Thumbs up Thank's

    Originally Posted by WonderPug
    I think you might be taking a tad bit too simplistic view of how nutrition works and I fear I don't have the energy right now to explain in detail.

    Thus, here's the two second version: macronutrients are used for different purposes, such as repair, cellular energy, etc. The body can run mostly on ketones, for example, when dietary carbs are dramatically reduced, but protein will then preferentially be converted to maintain blood sugar, etc. When there's an abundance of carbs but insufficient dietary protein, then muscle wasting occurs.

    In other words, you really have to have at least a basic understanding of how energy requires are satisfied and how nutritions are partitioned to maintain bodily functions.
    Yes, I agree my thinking probably is too straight forward and thank's for your comment. I actually read an article where it was stated that to avoid your above mentioned too dramatic carb reduction one should eat approx. 150 g of carbs daily to prevent protein getting used as an energy source. Unfortyunately I don't have a link to the source. Any further comment about this?
    Reply With Quote

  7. #7
    Chasing cats since 1967 WonderPug's Avatar
    Join Date: Sep 2010
    Location: New York, New York, United States
    Stats: 5'10", 192 lbs
    Posts: 50,968
    Rep Power: 169855
    WonderPug has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) WonderPug has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) WonderPug has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) WonderPug has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) WonderPug has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) WonderPug has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) WonderPug has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) WonderPug has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) WonderPug has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) WonderPug has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) WonderPug has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000)
    Visit WonderPug's BodySpace
    WonderPug is offline
    Originally Posted by MikaK65 View Post
    Any further comment about this?
    That's an oversimplification.

    On low carb diets (LCD) and especially very low carb diets (VLCD), one has to balance macronutrients correctly, just like on any diet where macronutrient partitioning is relevant.

    Generally speaking, on a VLCD one will try to consume 65% of calories from fat, 30% from protein and 5% from carbs. Assuming adequate caloric intake, there is sufficient exogenous protein to support body repair while also stabilizing blood suger without cannibalism.
    Reply With Quote

  8. #8
    Registered User Oliver1987's Avatar
    Join Date: Apr 2010
    Location: Bosnia and Herzegowina
    Age: 27
    Stats: 6'0", 213 lbs
    Posts: 121
    Rep Power: 0
    Oliver1987 is a complete loser! (-2000) Oliver1987 is a complete loser! (-2000) Oliver1987 is a complete loser! (-2000) Oliver1987 is a complete loser! (-2000) Oliver1987 is a complete loser! (-2000) Oliver1987 is a complete loser! (-2000) Oliver1987 is a complete loser! (-2000) Oliver1987 is a complete loser! (-2000) Oliver1987 is a complete loser! (-2000) Oliver1987 is a complete loser! (-2000) Oliver1987 is a complete loser! (-2000)
    Visit Oliver1987's BodySpace
    Oliver1987 is offline
    Originally Posted by WonderPug View Post
    That's an oversimplification.

    On low carb diets (LCD) and especially very low carb diets (VLCD), one has to balance macronutrients correctly, just like on any diet where macronutrient partitioning is relevant.

    Generally speaking, on a VLCD one will try to consume 65% of calories from fat, 30% from protein and 5% from carbs. Assuming adequate caloric intake, there is sufficient exogenous protein to support body repair while also stabilizing blood suger without cannibalism.
    Catabolism
    Eat healthy, train smart & hard, sleep well.
    Reply With Quote

  9. #9
    Chasing cats since 1967 WonderPug's Avatar
    Join Date: Sep 2010
    Location: New York, New York, United States
    Stats: 5'10", 192 lbs
    Posts: 50,968
    Rep Power: 169855
    WonderPug has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) WonderPug has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) WonderPug has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) WonderPug has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) WonderPug has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) WonderPug has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) WonderPug has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) WonderPug has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) WonderPug has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) WonderPug has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) WonderPug has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000)
    Visit WonderPug's BodySpace
    WonderPug is offline
    Originally Posted by Oliver1987 View Post
    Catabolism
    No. Cannibalism. Without sufficient protein, one starts eating his friends and family ;-)

    What do you want from me? I'm just a stupid pug, after all.
    Reply With Quote

  10. #10
    Custom User MikeK46's Avatar
    Join Date: Mar 2009
    Location: Melville, New York, United States
    Age: 28
    Stats: 5'8", 185 lbs
    Posts: 9,048
    Rep Power: 16310
    MikeK46 has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) MikeK46 has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) MikeK46 has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) MikeK46 has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) MikeK46 has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) MikeK46 has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) MikeK46 has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) MikeK46 has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) MikeK46 has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) MikeK46 has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) MikeK46 has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000)
    Visit MikeK46's BodySpace
    MikeK46 is offline
    Originally Posted by MikaK65 View Post
    Thank you for any insight regarding the correct order.
    First and foremost, your user name is freaking me out...is that supposed to be a sick joke?

    Second of all, you're missing the underlying concept of energy balance. Dietary carbs, protein, and fat all provide food energy. The body expends energy. An energy surplus is needed for anabolic activity (i.e. building muscle, storing fat), while an energy deficit is needed for catabolic activity (i.e. breaking fown muscle, breaking down fat).

    Start here and work your way through all the articles:

    http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/fat...-equation.html
    Reply With Quote

  11. #11
    Registered User MikaK65's Avatar
    Join Date: Nov 2010
    Age: 49
    Posts: 5
    Rep Power: 0
    MikaK65 is on a distinguished road. (+10)
    MikaK65 is offline

    Thumbs up Thank you

    Originally Posted by WonderPug
    That's an oversimplification.

    On low carb diets (LCD) and especially very low carb diets (VLCD), one has to balance macronutrients correctly, just like on any diet where macronutrient partitioning is relevant.

    Generally speaking, on a VLCD one will try to consume 65% of calories from fat, 30% from protein and 5% from carbs. Assuming adequate caloric intake, there is sufficient exogenous protein to support body repair while also stabilizing blood suger without cannibalism.
    5% sounds really low, but who am I to say 7 Yet about adequate caloric intake. How much? For example if my BMR+workout is approx 2600 calories daily would 1800 calories be all too little to dream of any muscle mass gains in combination with fat loss?

    Note: I am practically a beginner My fat is relatively high (24%). I am trying to get enough of protein - approx 150 grams daily
    Reply With Quote

  12. #12
    Chasing cats since 1967 WonderPug's Avatar
    Join Date: Sep 2010
    Location: New York, New York, United States
    Stats: 5'10", 192 lbs
    Posts: 50,968
    Rep Power: 169855
    WonderPug has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) WonderPug has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) WonderPug has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) WonderPug has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) WonderPug has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) WonderPug has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) WonderPug has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) WonderPug has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) WonderPug has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) WonderPug has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) WonderPug has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000)
    Visit WonderPug's BodySpace
    WonderPug is offline
    Originally Posted by MikeK46 View Post
    First and foremost, your user name is freaking me out...is that supposed to be a sick joke?
    At first, I thought you lost the posing trunks and bought a hat...

    Originally Posted by MikaK65 View Post
    Note: I am practically a beginner My fat is relatively high (24%).
    If I were you, I'd cut first and thereafter bulk.
    Reply With Quote

  13. #13
    Registered User MikaK65's Avatar
    Join Date: Nov 2010
    Age: 49
    Posts: 5
    Rep Power: 0
    MikaK65 is on a distinguished road. (+10)
    MikaK65 is offline

    Talking Lol

    Originally Posted by MikeK46
    First and foremost, your user name is freaking me out...is that supposed to be a sick joke?

    Start here and work your way through all the articles:
    Lol! Muy bad Mike Not a joke. Thank's for the link.
    Reply With Quote

  14. #14
    Registered User MikaK65's Avatar
    Join Date: Nov 2010
    Age: 49
    Posts: 5
    Rep Power: 0
    MikaK65 is on a distinguished road. (+10)
    MikaK65 is offline

    Question How about these nutrient levels?

    Originally Posted by WonderPug
    If I were you, I'd cut first and thereafter bulk.
    Ok. Point taken and understood. I guess this gets already off topic, but how does the following look like for cutting

    Daily long term averages
    Protein 148 g / 590 cal (33%)
    Carbs 200 g / 800 cal (45%)
    Fat 44 g / 400 cal (22%)

    against above mentioned average
    2600 burnt by BMR+workouts
    Reply With Quote

  15. #15
    u suppose lift jake1224's Avatar
    Join Date: Apr 2010
    Stats: 6'2", 210 lbs
    Posts: 15,752
    Rep Power: 25586
    jake1224 has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) jake1224 has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) jake1224 has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) jake1224 has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) jake1224 has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) jake1224 has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) jake1224 has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) jake1224 has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) jake1224 has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) jake1224 has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) jake1224 has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000)
    Visit jake1224's BodySpace
    jake1224 is offline
    Originally Posted by MikaK65 View Post
    Ok. Point taken and understood. I guess this gets already off topic, but how does the following look like for cutting

    Daily long term averages
    Protein 148 g / 590 cal (33%)
    Carbs 200 g / 800 cal (45%)
    Fat 44 g / 400 cal (22%)

    against above mentioned average
    2600 burnt by BMR+workouts
    You could do well to eat some more than that. More fat, more protein.
    if I was a dinosaur I would be a Flexasaurus.
    Reply With Quote

  16. #16
    Registered User arkmuscle's Avatar
    Join Date: Feb 2010
    Location: United States
    Age: 25
    Stats: 6'0", 176 lbs
    Posts: 58
    Rep Power: 0
    arkmuscle is a complete loser! (-2000) arkmuscle is a complete loser! (-2000) arkmuscle is a complete loser! (-2000) arkmuscle is a complete loser! (-2000) arkmuscle is a complete loser! (-2000) arkmuscle is a complete loser! (-2000) arkmuscle is a complete loser! (-2000) arkmuscle is a complete loser! (-2000)
    Visit arkmuscle's BodySpace
    arkmuscle is offline
    Originally Posted by MikaK65 View Post
    So... I've read that on first burns carbs, then fat, then protein...

    It seems most are of the opinion that one can't gain muscle and lose fat simultaneously which would be some contradictory to the above if all fat would be burned before protein is touched.

    I mean the body has fat storages (in cells which we really want to get rid of) that would get consumed to cover calorie deficit before the protein gets transferred into energy instead of getting into it's aimed purpose to building your muscles.

    So... In other words does the above order regard only fat that has still not gotten into fat cells ie. the actual burning order would be
    1) Carbs still in digestion
    2) Fat still in digestion
    3) Protein still in digestion
    4) Fat from fat cells
    5) Eventually muscle tissue

    Now the above looks some contraditory to the fact that we know there are cases where people have gained some muscle while on calorie deficit diets albeit it's slower than gaining muscle mass by bulking.

    Further... what about glycogen tied in muscles is that a part of 5) above or does it burn at som other point?

    Thank you for any insight regarding the correct order.


    Glucose is your body's main source of fuel. Excess glucose is stored in the liver and other cells as glycogen. Glycogen is used as a quick energy source by being converted to Glucose when your body needs it. Your body burns carbs, fats, or proteins based on your body composition and BMR so their isnt always a set order. Also remember proteins can be converted to glucose by gluconeogenesis in the liver explaining why calorie deficit diets can cause some people to gain muscle. Your body's main goal in breaking down all the food you eat is to make ATP(energy) for the cells in your body.
    Reply With Quote

  17. #17
    Registered User paulgnc24's Avatar
    Join Date: Sep 2010
    Location: West Palm Beach, Florida, United States
    Age: 24
    Posts: 282
    Rep Power: 0
    paulgnc24 is the lowest scum of the boards. (Worst Rank) paulgnc24 is the lowest scum of the boards. (Worst Rank) paulgnc24 is the lowest scum of the boards. (Worst Rank) paulgnc24 is the lowest scum of the boards. (Worst Rank) paulgnc24 is the lowest scum of the boards. (Worst Rank) paulgnc24 is the lowest scum of the boards. (Worst Rank) paulgnc24 is the lowest scum of the boards. (Worst Rank) paulgnc24 is the lowest scum of the boards. (Worst Rank) paulgnc24 is the lowest scum of the boards. (Worst Rank) paulgnc24 is the lowest scum of the boards. (Worst Rank) paulgnc24 is the lowest scum of the boards. (Worst Rank)
    Visit paulgnc24's BodySpace
    paulgnc24 is offline
    human body is a very complex thing. everything works in favor of each other to function well. so i think it denpends how your body adapts an reacts to the situation its given in,.
    Reply With Quote

Reply

Similar Threads

  1. Does you not really get bigger without working your legs
    By Mccall101 in forum Teen Bodybuilding
    Replies: 26
    Last Post: 08-08-2008, 11:44 PM
  2. Which Bed time Protein should I get?
    By kstufff in forum Nutrition
    Replies: 14
    Last Post: 12-14-2007, 08:32 PM
  3. what does skinny fat really mean...
    By epson2007 in forum Losing Fat
    Replies: 5
    Last Post: 12-14-2007, 09:27 AM
  4. Does protein powder REALLY go bad?
    By port_joey in forum Teen Bodybuilding
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: 05-31-2006, 08:00 PM
  5. which kind of protein should I get?
    By xplosiveDL in forum Nutrition
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 08-21-2005, 07:52 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts

Home Store Products Careers Help Contact Us Terms of Use Checkout