No Weight Gain - How Far Above Maintenance?

[emp1acur]

I know this is a common question but I'm a little discouraged and would appreciate fresh advice.

I'm eating alot and not seeing any appreciable weight gain over a few months.

I am about 5'10-5'11 range, around 156 first thing in morning. BF about 17. I'm in cycle 3, week 4 of Allpro. At one point thought I was gaining a bit, but that was fluctuations during the day.

Calculations show maintenance about 2500 cals. I was in the 2600 - 3000 range, not seeing weight gain, so have been at 3200-3300 now for about a month. Protein averages 220 per day. Not seeing a change on the scale.

Main thing I'd like advice on, is whether maintenance cals can differ alot, such that maybe I need to up to 3500, see how that goes, then 3700 etc. I figured at 700 over "maintenance" it should be enough.

Regular diet items include fish/chicken/tuna every day one or two times, bananas, alot of cottage cheese, walnuts, broccoli, spinach, cashews, peanut butter with flax bread, two smoothies each day each containing 30g protein along with 1/2 cup oatmeal, 1TBSP ground flax, yogurt, milk. I also drink about 5 cups milk per day (especially if needing extra cals and protein to reach my goals each day). Glass of wine 2-3 times per week, mostly weekends. I know I'm a little light on red meat. I track everything with MyPlate.

Had thyroid tests last physical and all normal. I know I do not have genetics on my side, as I've always been thin (but have some low back/waist fat at age 47). Is it simply the usual thing, EAT MORE?

Thanks!

[ironwill2008]

Is it simply the usual thing, EAT MORE?

Yep. If you're not gaining weight, you're simply not eating enough.




Don't use 'genetics' as a crutch; eat more/better, and work harder/smarter. You'll progress.

[dbx]

I am about 5'10-5'11 range, around 156 first thing in morning. BF about 17. I'm in cycle 3, week 4 of Allpro.

Calculations show maintenance about 2500 cals.

First, on-line calcs should actually show your maint level at approx 2200 or so, and this is why their not only very general...but also BS to start with.

I was in the 2600 - 3000 range, not seeing weight gain, so have been at 3200-3300 now for about a month. Not seeing a change on the scale.

Note: 2600-3000 leaves a lot of room for "WTF?". A lot of room. How much time spent at the 3K level would probably make a significant difference. Very significant.

Main thing I'd like advice on, is whether maintenance cals can differ alot, such that maybe I need to up to 3500, see how that goes, then 3700 etc. I figured at 700 over "maintenance" it should be enough.

Obviously, what I said above about "should be" is wrong...for you. This is why you'll repeatedly hear, "We're all different". With respects to your pics, age and current stats.....you my friend, are one of those people I hate...you can't gain weight, no matter what you do .

I would suggest that you NOT concern yourself, as most of us would, with where your calories come from. Don't get me wrong here, but just don't obsess with eating clean all the time......just bust your ass in the gym all the time. You will succeed. People greatly misunderstand the differences in metab rates....and this is why a lot of nutrition threads go sideways...or at least, aren't accurately targeted for the individual asking questions.

Yep. If you're not gaining weight, you're simply not eating enough.

Yep, pretty much.

[david_0729]

You gave us a great idea of your nutrition. But what about your lifting? What is your routine and how often.

[emp1acur]

Thanks for the wisdom thus far. It helps to have some veterans sanitize the concept that I should venture beyond where I'm at now in terms of daily calories.

Couple answers:

My 2600-3000 range really meant that I started out gung ho and was at 3000 ish, got spooked because I thought I might see a bigger waist, dropped some for a bit, until posting on here awhile back which convinced me that I needed to stay the course at higher calories, so I bumped up to 3200.

My routine is Allpro's Beginners Routine, exactly as it is described in its own thread, MWF, 5 week cycles, I'm on Cycle 3, week 4. I'm assuming everyone knows the routine so won't state what it consists of.

The help is appreciated as always.

[glsfitness]

No Weight Gain - How Far Above Maintenance?

As far above as necessary.

[ironwill2008]

My 2600-3000 range really meant that I started out gung ho and was at 3000 ish, got spooked because I thought I might see a bigger waist, dropped some for a bit, until posting on here awhile back which convinced me that I needed to stay the course at higher calories, so I bumped up to 3200.

One other thought; when you make realtively small changes to calorie intake (which is the better way to go, no matter if you're trying to add weight or drop bodyfat), the results of those changes usually won't be apparent for several weeks. This can mislead a person into thinking they're not where they should be, calorie-wise. Just have to be patient, make one change at a time, and then give it time to work.

[PeteB]

Past age 40, it can take a long time to gain some muscle, especially starting out (2nd OP post mentions a beginner routine), much longer than for someone, say, under 30.

When most people (not all, but most) start lifting weights for the first time, or after a long layoff, the initial gains are in strength, not in muscle volume. The reason for this is having a body which has existed at a strength deficit for a decade or more. So, it is possible to make good progress in terms of strength, cardio fitness, and fat loss for months, and see little or no growth in muscle. Even after that, you can gain a little muscle, lose a little fat, which would be progress - and look about the same.

There are exceptions, like people who were college-age athletes, and who bulk up quickly with the right exercise and diet, but they are the fortunate few.

Not fair, perhaps, and getting old sucks - but it is preferable to the alternative...

[tonester]

Had thyroid tests last physical and all normal. I know I do not have genetics on my side, as I've always been thin (but have some low back/waist fat at age 47). Is it simply the usual thing, EAT MORE?

Thanks!

I might as well take the devils advocate position here just to cover all bases. Judging by the pics you provided I'm reminded of several articles that I've come across regarding stress, cortisol levels and fat placement/utilization. Next physical you might want to ask your doctor about checking for cortisol levels in your blood work.

http://www.mindandmuscle.net/search/...y%20fat%20ecto parts 1 and 2.

Also ironwills point regarding the lag period between cause and effect needs to be understood. I for one use 3 and 6 month markers for hormonal changes. Your cortisol to test profile may fall under this time frame.

Keep an eye on your waist fat deposit. Many times the scale figures aren't accurate because you may be adding a bit of muscle and losing a bit of fat. Net result might be zero. This is where people sometimes think that fat turns to muscle. If loads used are going up I wouldn't be to "stressed" about it.

Give it time, you're not a presto chango young'un anymore.

[JOHN GARGANI]

You gave us a great idea of your nutrition. But what about your lifting? What is your routine and how often.

exactly what I was thinking, because, looking at your first picture, it is obvious that you are very new at this...

[emp1acur]

I value the advice given and am taking it all in. I will read the referenced articles and be careful about making too many calorie changes too fast. I do feel a little difference (mainly triceps) but not on the scale, and the extra around my waste bugs me

Indeed I am a beginner at weight training. Dabbled in my 20s and 30s very briefly, but didn't like it. Knew nothing about nutrition at that point. Started in June this year - once I kept at a dumbbell only routine long enough I spent many hours reading BB.com and got a power rack, OLY set, bench, etc. It felt totally different and I love it. I'm of a different mindset in my 40s and totally cleaned up my diet. I do have a goal of gaining lean mass but obviously it is a slow process.

I very much enjoy Allpro's beginner routine and as he states once I feel I'm not progressing or just need something different, I'll switch, but for now it is great and having a "program" with defined progression really helps.

I hear the message of giving it time. The support on here has been crucial so thank you.

[bigtallox]

Main thing I'd like advice on, is whether maintenance cals can differ alot, such that maybe I need to up to 3500, see how that goes, then 3700 etc. I figured at 700 over "maintenance" it should be enough.

Yes maintenance can differ. How did you determine yours? If you're eating 2600-3000 and not gaining weight, then by definition that's maintenance, not above.

I'm eating alot and not seeing any appreciable weight gain over a few months.

Regular diet items include fish/chicken/tuna every day one or two times, bananas, alot of cottage cheese, walnuts, broccoli, spinach, cashews, peanut butter with flax bread, two smoothies each day each containing 30g protein along with 1/2 cup oatmeal,

Well no wonder. You apparently want to gain but you're eating like somebody who doesn't.

I know I'm a little light on red meat.

You think? lol. I don't see eggs on your list either.

Is it simply the usual thing, EAT MORE?

There's nothing wrong with the right kinds of fats. Put olive oil on everything, you'll start gaining.

[emp1acur]

bigtallox - thanks. Point taken on maintenance - obviously the theoretical value for me isn't true maintenance.

I do eat eggs, just forgot to include every item I eat regularly. Eggs 2-3 times per week. Olive oil I put on spinach salad and cook all my chicken in it. Could certainly get in some more. My main sources of good fat are from nuts and olive oil.

tonester: I just finished reading those articles and they are very interesting. Will read them again because there is alot of info there.

[OutOfStep]

I agree with bigtallox. Start adding in whole eggs and red meat. I eat 6-12 eggs and about a pound and a half of red meat (ground top or eye of the round) every day in addition to other protein sources. Don't forget the carbs too. Sweet potatoes, white potatoes, pasta, rice, etc. Your food choices aren't bad, but it looks more like a cut diet. You need to include more calorie dense foods, hence my suggestions above.

You want to eat about 500 kcal/day over whatever your maintenance is. Don't jump on the scale every other day either. I give dietary changes about 3 weeks before making additional changes.

[JerryB]

I know this is a common question but I'm a little discouraged and would appreciate fresh advice.

I'm eating alot and not seeing any appreciable weight gain over a few months.

I am about 5'10-5'11 range, around 156 first thing in morning. BF about 17. I'm in cycle 3, week 4 of Allpro. At one point thought I was gaining a bit, but that was fluctuations during the day.

Calculations show maintenance about 2500 cals. I was in the 2600 - 3000 range, not seeing weight gain, so have been at 3200-3300 now for about a month. Protein averages 220 per day. Not seeing a change on the scale.

Main thing I'd like advice on, is whether maintenance cals can differ alot, such that maybe I need to up to 3500, see how that goes, then 3700 etc. I figured at 700 over "maintenance" it should be enough.

Regular diet items include fish/chicken/tuna every day one or two times, bananas, alot of cottage cheese, walnuts, broccoli, spinach, cashews, peanut butter with flax bread, two smoothies each day each containing 30g protein along with 1/2 cup oatmeal, 1TBSP ground flax, yogurt, milk. I also drink about 5 cups milk per day (especially if needing extra cals and protein to reach my goals each day). Glass of wine 2-3 times per week, mostly weekends. I know I'm a little light on red meat. I track everything with MyPlate.

Had thyroid tests last physical and all normal. I know I do not have genetics on my side, as I've always been thin (but have some low back/waist fat at age 47). Is it simply the usual thing, EAT MORE?

Thanks!

One of you problems is following the Allpro Routine…if this is was you are doing

"You will be running this program on a five week cycle as follows:
The first week do all 4 sets for 8 reps.
The second week do all 4 sets for 9 reps.
The third week do all 4 sets for 10 reps.
The fourth week do all 4 sets for 11 reps.
The fifth week do all 4 sets for 12 reps.
If you got all of the required reps on the fifth week then increase the weight by 10% and
repeat the cycle. If you didn't get all of the reps on the fifth week then repeat the cycle with the same weight. You shouldn't need more than one minute rest between the warm up sets and you shouldn't need more than one minute thirty seconds between the work sets.
Do some cardio and abs work on non weight training days."

You appear to be using your calories to fuel the caloric requirements of your routine rather than to add muscle mass. To add muscle mass you need to tax your muscle groups with compound exercises which you are doing with 3 to 4 sets and weights that limit your reps range to 6 to 8. You need to recover between sets so you can hit it again. I doubt if you can lift enough weight to stimulate muscle growth if your are resting one minute between working sets and doing 10 to 12 reps. Your routine is a High Intensity Interval Training (HIIT) cardio workout. And you are probably doing cardio on your non weight training days too.

I am not surprised you are not gaining muscle mass.

[emp1acur]

JerryB - From alot of reading I considered starting with either SS or Allpro, and of course went with the latter. I would welcome any input as to what you or others with experience would recommend as a more suitable routine for someone like myself that is 5 months into weight training. Currently I do not do any cardio as I wanted to gain an understanding of my body and what I could accomplish with weight gain without clouding it by burning calories doing other things.

Thanks.

[SR800]

Don't have unrealistic expectations. Judging by your photos and genetics, you will be lucky to add 2-3 lbs of muscle a year if you do everything correctly. Don't fall into the eat eat eat trap. For you it will be Fat Fat Fat. I would recommend cutting as much body fat as you can, in your case about 15-20 lbs from the looks of those pics. Once you have a good body fat ratio of under 10% then it will be a lot easier to make realistic decisions about training and nutrition. The main thing is to not give up, have realistic expectations. If you could get nice and defined in the 150 range you will be very pleased and probably near the limit of your potential.

[flat6nut]

Past age 40, it can take a long time to gain some muscle, especially starting out (2nd OP post mentions a beginner routine), much longer than for someone, say, under 30.

When most people (not all, but most) start lifting weights for the first time, or after a long layoff, the initial gains are in strength, not in muscle volume. The reason for this is having a body which has existed at a strength deficit for a decade or more. So, it is possible to make good progress in terms of strength, cardio fitness, and fat loss for months, and see little or no growth in muscle. Even after that, you can gain a little muscle, lose a little fat, which would be progress - and look about the same.

There are exceptions, like people who were college-age athletes, and who bulk up quickly with the right exercise and diet, but they are the fortunate few.

Not fair, perhaps, and getting old sucks - but it is preferable to the alternative...

I am still considered a novice I suppose, but I disagree with your post. I have been lifting for only 15 months, and started out somewhat close to the OPs weight/height body fat. I have lost body fat and gained roughly 25 pounds.

I think the OPs problem is within his routine and intensity. I also just read that you have only been lifting for 5 months...keep at it for awhile before getting discouraged.

Michael