Morning (Fasted) Cardio Food Plan for Cutting

[Dudeguyy]

Hey guys, I'd like to put together a pretty definitive plan for those doing fasted cardio in the mornings for fat loss or on a cut. It's confusing stuff, and I feel this could help a lot of people out, including myself. Who knows... it could be possibly sticky worthy, since that guy started a Pre, Intra, Post WO nutrition thread and never did anything with it.

I've just recently started cutting myself, two months or so ago, and I feel it's a process everyone should try at some point. Very neat experience, learning to actually keep track of cals and macros, and THINK about what you're eating. Force accountability... weighed myself this morning and I actually came in at 177, 3 lbs. lighter than when I weigh myself in the middle of the day most days. I realize that's b/c of food and clothing weight, but it's still satisfying.

Anyway, sorry for rambling. During this cutting phase, I've started doing fasted cardio in the mornings for the first time ever. It feels like it's working, so I'll keep it up. Don't come in here to flame fasted cardio either... it's just a preference. Some people like it, some people hate it. If you're in the hate it boat, just don't bomb on it and try to learn something.

Anyway, I've got several questions about morning cardio:

1) Pre workout. I've heard several recommendations throughout various threads on the internet about what's best pre cardio. Some people a scoop of whey, some just do 5-10 grams of BCAA's, and some go cold turkey and eat nothing. It's generally agreed upon that carbs should be avoided, as the point of morning cardio is to work out when you're body is lowest in glycogen, which hypothetically results in it burning fat for fuel. Protein, and or BCAA's, are taken in to avoid muscle breakdown during fasted cardio
Anyway, for my purposes, I have no BCAA's, as I can't be throwing around too much cash for supps, so my options are either whey, natural protein from food, or no food. Now, today, I just went without food, as I had a casein shake and PB last nite to hit my macros, and wasn't too worried about muscle catabolism.
My question is, what would be ideal pre workout? Some people seem to think a scoop of whey in water wouldn't be bad, but others say it would convert to glucose and be used instead of fat for fuel. And alot of guys seem to think the risk of muscle breakdown is low enough that it's ok just to not eat. What would be best?

2) Post workout. How many carbs are really necessary post cardio? I'm very curious, because obviously we want to stop any catabolism that might be occuring, but we don't want to overdo it. I suppose it has a lot to do with individual goals and meal plan. Like, I myself am in the later stages of this cut, and I've done a roughly 40/40/20 split (P/C/F), sometimes going 40/30/30 or 30/40/30. I don't care too much about going low carb, just hitting my daily caloric goals. But now I'm dropping carbs down there more in an attempt to restoke my fat burning furnace. Anyway, for example, today after cardio I had a banana and a protein shake made with about 10 oz of miilk and one scoop whey immediately post. Then about 45 minutes or an hour later, I had 3 whole eggs and three cuts of ham. Add that up and it comes to about 700 cals, with 75/49/23 (P/C/F) grams.
Is this sufficient/ideal post cardio nutrition, or are more carbs needed? For example, I thought about also having 3/4 cup of oats and some walnuts and possibly blueberries/raisins, a staple breakfast for me. Would the extra carbs have been necessary?
Should simple sugars be taken in to avoid catabolism or avoided to stay lean? I know there's a variety of opinions about when is appropriate to "carb up" after working out, especially with simple sugars/big insulin spikes.

Anyway, thank you, hopefully we can get some really good info posted here in this thread. It'd definitely help me out a lot, and hopefully a lot of you too.

[RJPX919]

personally i think your overthinking everything. i would just do the fasted cardio and get your target cals and macros in over the course of the day

[Scott_W]

I don't think he's over thinking things, once you reach certain points in progress you need to analyze and reevaluate for further progression. I do my fasted morning cardio after drinking a cup of coffee.

[Dudeguyy]

It's just the little intricacies I think about when on my diet... Like whether or not an insulin spike at certain times would be good or not.

Do you guys go carb heavy (i.e. Oatmeal, wheat toast, or cereal) or keep it light, like some fruit of something?

And do you think a scoop of Whey before would be good or bad?

[ebbers91]

Personally, I take bcaas in the morning before my cardio, but if you wanted protein in water, or nothing at all, either way you should be fine, at the end of the day, as long a's you are in a cal deficit, you'll lose the fat

[mynameisuntz]

Without really reading the first post, I'll paraphrase Lyle McDonald and say that fasted cardio may only really be necessary for people at low levels of body fat who need new ideas to mobilize fat stores.

So, if you're at a lower body fat percentage and are not seeing progress, then try it out. Otherwise there's not going to be a significant difference.

[Dudeguyy]

Alright, thanks guys, that definitely answers my question as far as pre workout. I'll probably only resort to protein if I'm really hungry or tired beforehand.

However, I'm still curious about afterwards. I know nutrient timing isn't too important as long as macros are hit, but personally, do you guys eat a high carb breakfast/ high protein breakfast afterwards, low carb/high protein, or what? Seems important in warding off catabolism.

[Dudeguyy]

Bump

[db2012]

Fasted cardio their are many stacks you can take for added benefit. I like higher GI complex carbs with a bit of simple for pre workout such as 3/4-1.5c oatmeal, with 1-3tsp of honey and 1.5-2scoops of whey.

PWO depends on goals but like WaxyMaize:Whey asap after training at a 1:1 or 2:1 ratio i.e 100g WaxyMaize, 50g whey.

PWO meal I like to get in 45-60 minutes in after the PWO shake. Higher GI complex's like white rice (87gi) or rice cakes with a lean protein source and 1c of veggies is fairly standard for me.

Depending on goals remaining complex carbs I usually will keep medium range gi and stick to sources such as brown/wild rice, yams, potato, or plain oats.

Don't obcess much over post cardio nutrition. Post workout nutrition on the other hand is much more important as glycogen will be much more depleted and being in a catabolic state will be more likely. Low intensity cardio 45-60 minutes fasted if your diet doesn't have too large of a deficit in daily calories you shouldn't become catabolic. In contrast if you perform resistance training then perform PWO cardio this changes everything. I prefer to have the PWO shake before cardio if training is intense even while on a cut. I just will modify the ratios in the shake. 20g of waxyMaize and 30g of whey for example may be sufficient for some. This is low enough in cals where the majority of it should be utilized due to the physical state you should be in from resistance training. Even if a bit is burned as fuel within the cardio session this is much preferred over utilizing protein (muscle) for fuel within the cardio session.

The above does not apply to a solo fasted cardio session. In this event just consume a regular meal post cardio that is part of your diet the PWO insulin spike could actually hinder some of the fat burning due to your elevated RMR going to work at a peak before the first meal is consumed.

Hey guys, I'd like to put together a pretty definitive plan for those doing fasted cardio in the mornings for fat loss or on a cut. It's confusing stuff, and I feel this could help a lot of people out, including myself. Who knows... it could be possibly sticky worthy, since that guy started a Pre, Intra, Post WO nutrition thread and never did anything with it.

I've just recently started cutting myself, two months or so ago, and I feel it's a process everyone should try at some point. Very neat experience, learning to actually keep track of cals and macros, and THINK about what you're eating. Force accountability... weighed myself this morning and I actually came in at 177, 3 lbs. lighter than when I weigh myself in the middle of the day most days. I realize that's b/c of food and clothing weight, but it's still satisfying.

Anyway, sorry for rambling. During this cutting phase, I've started doing fasted cardio in the mornings for the first time ever. It feels like it's working, so I'll keep it up. Don't come in here to flame fasted cardio either... it's just a preference. Some people like it, some people hate it. If you're in the hate it boat, just don't bomb on it and try to learn something.

Anyway, I've got several questions about morning cardio:

1) Pre workout. I've heard several recommendations throughout various threads on the internet about what's best pre cardio. Some people a scoop of whey, some just do 5-10 grams of BCAA's, and some go cold turkey and eat nothing. It's generally agreed upon that carbs should be avoided, as the point of morning cardio is to work out when you're body is lowest in glycogen, which hypothetically results in it burning fat for fuel. Protein, and or BCAA's, are taken in to avoid muscle breakdown during fasted cardio
Anyway, for my purposes, I have no BCAA's, as I can't be throwing around too much cash for supps, so my options are either whey, natural protein from food, or no food. Now, today, I just went without food, as I had a casein shake and PB last nite to hit my macros, and wasn't too worried about muscle catabolism.
My question is, what would be ideal pre workout? Some people seem to think a scoop of whey in water wouldn't be bad, but others say it would convert to glucose and be used instead of fat for fuel. And alot of guys seem to think the risk of muscle breakdown is low enough that it's ok just to not eat. What would be best?

2) Post workout. How many carbs are really necessary post cardio? I'm very curious, because obviously we want to stop any catabolism that might be occuring, but we don't want to overdo it. I suppose it has a lot to do with individual goals and meal plan. Like, I myself am in the later stages of this cut, and I've done a roughly 40/40/20 split (P/C/F), sometimes going 40/30/30 or 30/40/30. I don't care too much about going low carb, just hitting my daily caloric goals. But now I'm dropping carbs down there more in an attempt to restoke my fat burning furnace. Anyway, for example, today after cardio I had a banana and a protein shake made with about 10 oz of miilk and one scoop whey immediately post. Then about 45 minutes or an hour later, I had 3 whole eggs and three cuts of ham. Add that up and it comes to about 700 cals, with 75/49/23 (P/C/F) grams.
Is this sufficient/ideal post cardio nutrition, or are more carbs needed? For example, I thought about also having 3/4 cup of oats and some walnuts and possibly blueberries/raisins, a staple breakfast for me. Would the extra carbs have been necessary?
Should simple sugars be taken in to avoid catabolism or avoided to stay lean? I know there's a variety of opinions about when is appropriate to "carb up" after working out, especially with simple sugars/big insulin spikes.

Anyway, thank you, hopefully we can get some really good info posted here in this thread. It'd definitely help me out a lot, and hopefully a lot of you too.

[Dudeguyy]

Thanks bro, I think I understood most of that...