New Women's Physique Division - NPC/IFBB

[dvsness]

This is confirmed, but 'unofficial':

Women's Physique Division will be more muscular than Figure without the size and conditioning in Bodybuilding.

Women’s Physique will begin in 2011, but will only be held with NPC national competitions. Tentatively starting with NPC Jr. Nationals then Team Universe, USA & Nationals. No local, state or regional competitions will have them in 2011. Also with an IFBB Professional League division in 2012. Details & rules still being worked out. But the competitors will be barefoot, no heels.

[viridian]

Glad to see this posted here.... im curious to see how this goes after Bikini being such a huge success, atleast in popularity.

[hieronymous]

OMG no heels, that's awesome! Are there posing routines as well?

[viridian]

From what I've been reading, there is posing and quarter turns, but its supposed to be alot more feminine than FBB though Im not positive what that means...

is there an official link somewhere? I've only been reading mainly discussion on another forum...

[dvsness]

OMG no heels, that's awesome! Are there posing routines as well?

Yes.

From what I've been reading, there is posing and quarter turns, but its supposed to be alot more feminine than FBB though Im not positive what that means...

is there an official link somewhere? I've only been reading mainly discussion on another forum...

'More feminine' - I'm thinking the posing will be open handed like NABBA Figure and the big and grainy look will not be rewarded.

There won't be an official link until all the details are in place, but the information I have has come from Bob Chick, JM Manion and Isaac Hinds.

[kathyfit]

I'm just thinking what started out as a "man's" sport sure has been overtaken by females! Poor dudes only have bodybuilding to choose from in most organizations. The women have bodybuilding, fitness, figure, bikini and now physique to choose from! Crazy! .....and I already have a hard time deciding

[hieronymous]

I've been doing some 'vestigatin and it seems that they are trying to phase out FBB and introduce the 'new' division take FBB down to the size of BB seen in the 80s. Cory Everson, Carla Dunlap, Sharon Bruneau etc. I think it is a great move.

[dvsness]

I'm just thinking what started out as a "man's" sport sure has been overtaken by females! Poor dudes only have bodybuilding to choose from in most organizations. The women have bodybuilding, fitness, figure, bikini and now physique to choose from! Crazy! .....and I already have a hard time deciding

Well, there will also be a Men's Physique division added - it is to be judged in board shorts and will begin in 2011, too. But I do think there are too many categories for women.

I've been doing some 'vestigatin and it seems that they are trying to phase out FBB and introduce the 'new' division take FBB down to the size of BB seen in the 80s. Cory Everson, Carla Dunlap, Sharon Bruneau etc. I think it is a great move.

That does seem to be the case, yes. They want a classic look.

[kimm4]

So you will basically go in looking like a trumped up figure chick, but not a FBB...
Just another kick in the teeth for the FBB's that have worked so hard...

[dvsness]

So you will basically go in looking like a trumped up figure chick, but not a FBB...
Just another kick in the teeth for the FBB's that have worked so hard...

It seems to be the NPC/IFBB's way to try to unring a bell, if you would. They want to get away from the androgenized look without drug testing.

There are some current Pro FBB that will likely fit the new standard, like Beni Lopez, Diana Stanback and Lori Steele. They turned Pro as LW or MW and don't get a second look on the Pro stage due to size.

[kimm4]

It seems to be the NPC/IFBB's way to try to unring a bell, if you would. They want to get away from the androgenized look without drug testing.

There are some current Pro FBB that will likely fit the new standard, like Beni Lopez, Diana Stanback and Lori Steele. They turned Pro as LW or MW and don't get a second look on the Pro stage due to size.

But the girls you mention have to come in softer. There look is too hard to fit the new standard...from what I understand. I don't know...it's like the female bb's no longer have a choice to be free on how they want to look.

The lines in judging are blurred enough...I can't imagine where this is going to go.

This is where you will be competing correct? Do you feel it will work to your benefit?

[kimm4]

Bob Chick was on RX Muscle answering questions about the new division.

This gives the general idea of what they're looking for:

Basically, were looking for slightly bigger than a "too big" figure competitor, and slightly smaller than a Lt Weight BB...smaller being relative to height, of course. A taller, bigger girl could certainly compete in this division....it's the LEVEL of muscularity that will be held in check, as well as the level of conditioning...

Meaning...were not looking for big , muscular and smooth....and not looking for small and ripped either...

Athletic looking, accentuating symmetry, proportion, shape, tone, posing, presentation, skin tone, beauty, poise....

He also stresses this:

Getting off the sauce would be advised for any and all girls looking to compete in the WPD, as the look that will be rewarded will not be one that can be enhanced with AAS...all the attributes associated with supps, will only insure a last place callout...extreme conditioning will not be rewarded, nor will excessive muscularity, grainyness, hardness, ripped, peeled, shredded, or any of the other used too often expressions we have...

Call me crazy but it sounds like figure, hitting poses without the heels...

[kathyfit]

Call me crazy but it sounds like figure, hitting poses without the heels...

I agree....and it sounds like shows will be loooonnngggeeeerrrrrrr.

[kimm4]

It's too bad because you have women who have worked for years to get at the top of their game. Not just AAS users, but all women who have spent years of hardcore training and following strict diet regimens that some people wouldn't be able to handle for a day. Nothing like a "happy fuk off to you!"

Even if the girls were to get off of the AAS, you've still got years of quality muscle due to muscle maturity. The muscle just doesn't disappear overnight...

I don't know, I'm thinking lot's of early retirements. Be ready for the announcements...it's too bad.

[dvsness]

But the girls you mention have to come in softer. There look is too hard to fit the new standard...from what I understand. I don't know...it's like the female bb's no longer have a choice to be free on how they want to look.

The lines in judging are blurred enough...I can't imagine where this is going to go.

This is where you will be competing correct? Do you feel it will work to your benefit?

It's hard to know the real standard until we see it judged at JrNats.

There still will be FBB for the time being, and the numbers need to be up in order for the promoters to keep it. There have been far too many shows where Fitness and FBB numbers are terrible.

I do NOT want to see FBB dissolve. I intended to compete as a LW, and was fine and completely willing to accept that I would not be successful at the National level because I was not willing to do what it takes. However, if they are going to create a division where that's not really an issue, I'd be daft not to try it.

I think this does make too many divisions. It would have been easier to just judge FBB to guide it to what they want to see. Or introduce this and drop Figure. While Figure and Bikini are supposed to look different, they would look very similar if they posed the same way. Or drop Bikini, lol. I'm not a fan of the relaxed muscle and the come hither bent over posing.

I contacted Diana Stanback about the new division. She turned Pro as a MW, but has competed in both FBB and Figure. She was contemplating going back to Figure since she just can't compete with these big girls as a Pro. Beni Lopez has some of the most amazing proportions and shape and can't crack the top spots. Will they come in softer? Most likely.

Some of that coming in softer is also about not using RX diuretics (not insinuating that those women did), not necessarily bf levels. Who knows what will happen? I guess only time will tell.

[dvsness]

It's too bad because you have women who have worked for years to get at the top of their game. Not just AAS users, but all women who have spent years of hardcore training and following strict diet regimens that some people wouldn't be able to handle for a day. Nothing like a "happy fuk off to you!"

Even if the girls were to get off of the AAS, you've still got years of quality muscle due to muscle maturity. The muscle just doesn't disappear overnight...

I don't know, I'm thinking lot's of early retirements. Be ready for the announcements...it's too bad.

Lisa Aukland retired. Betty Pariso retired from FBB and said that she may mot be done with competing. Since she was involved with creating this, I would not be surprised if she competes in WPD.

[Boba_Bulk]

Hey ladies sorry to just drop in your section, I never post in here because I respect the fact that it is a section for women, and don't wanna be "that guy" that comes in here to troll the ladies. This will be my first post here (and maybe last if you ladies totally disagree and kick me out).

This is confirmed, but 'unofficial':

Women's Physique Division will be more muscular than Figure without the size and conditioning in Bodybuilding.

Women’s Physique will begin in 2011, but will only be held with NPC national competitions. Tentatively starting with NPC Jr. Nationals then Team Universe, USA & Nationals. No local, state or regional competitions will have them in 2011. Also with an IFBB Professional League division in 2012. Details & rules still being worked out. But the competitors will be barefoot, no heels.

I'm glad you posted this because I did want to add when I saw this new division topic in the IFBB section and the drama that ensues (as with most FBB topics there), so I would rather just have a more civil discussion here.

But the girls you mention have to come in softer. There look is too hard to fit the new standard...from what I understand. I don't know...it's like the female bb's no longer have a choice to be free on how they want to look.

The lines in judging are blurred enough...I can't imagine where this is going to go.

This is where you will be competing correct? Do you feel it will work to your benefit?

It's hard to know the real standard until we see it judged at JrNats.

There still will be FBB for the time being, and the numbers need to be up in order for the promoters to keep it. There have been far too many shows where Fitness and FBB numbers are terrible.

I do NOT want to see FBB dissolve. I intended to compete as a LW, and was fine and completely willing to accept that I would not be successful at the National level because I was not willing to do what it takes. However, if they are going to create a division where that's not really an issue, I'd be daft not to try it.

I think this does make too many divisions. It would have been easier to just judge FBB to guide it to what they want to see. Or introduce this and drop Figure. While Figure and Bikini are supposed to look different, they would look very similar if they posed the same way. Or drop Bikini, lol. I'm not a fan of the relaxed muscle and the come hither bent over posing.

I contacted Diana Stanback about the new division. She turned Pro as a MW, but has competed in both FBB and Figure. She was contemplating going back to Figure since she just can't compete with these big girls as a Pro. Beni Lopez has some of the most amazing proportions and shape and can't crack the top spots. Will they come in softer? Most likely.

Some of that coming in softer is also about not using RX diuretics (not insinuating that those women did), not necessarily bf levels. Who knows what will happen? I guess only time will tell.

First before I get to the topic at hand, I'm not gonna bash any division, I do like having FBB and Figure in the NPC and IFBB, but I think it could have done without the bikini division. Not that I don't enjoy seeing beautiful women in bikini's, I DO , but the BB in IFBB stands for BodyBuilding, and I believe that FBB'ers fit that definition and lifestyle to a tee, fitness and figure (as gray area'd as some of it is) does require more BB'ing aspects to prep than bikini does. I agree with you that there are too many divisions as it is. Also add the fact that outside of the IFBB and NPC sanctions, FBB'ers and figure don't have as many contests opportunities outside that bikini competitors do.

Apologies to the bikini competitors here, I'm not putting you or what you do down, just saying that even without the NPC or IFBB, there are always bikini contests going on, but for the ladies that bodybuild, they don't quite have the same amount of opportunities, so I would rather see the time and money more invested in that division.

Back to the topic at hand though, I think there are too many female divisions as it is (I will feel the same way about the men's too if/when they add a Physique division).

I don't think it's fair to the women of FBB or Figure, that they have to be subcategorized into a hybrid division because they are deemed to hard, soft, muscular, smooth etc to fit a so called ideal physique. I know dvsness mentioned it would be a division who are maybe too muscular for figure, but not enough for FBB. I could probably accept that if I were convinced it would be the only new category. However where does it stop? Let's say there's a physique that's a tad too muscular for figure, but not quite enough for physique, do we add a new division in between those? On the flip side, do we add another one if the physique is too muscular for physique but not enough for FBB? That would be 5 divisions between figure and FBB. Do we add more divisions if the competitors somehow fall in between those 5 categories? This would probably lead to the unfortunate demise of FBB, and without an FBB division where would women too muscular for physique compete?

I know bottom line, it comes down to money and revenues. But I think letting the women choose what division they want to compete in between figure and FBB, after they have trained enough to see which category they realistically is best, is better than having a new category altogether, just because the judges can't adhere to certain judging parameters. If anything they are blurring the lines between divisions and not defining them more the way they should. Not sure if I explained all that the way I wanted too, but just my thoughts on the matter.

[SheWulf]

Sounds cool!

[JLB001]

I've never been one of the bigger girls on the fbb stage...so I'm kinda waiting to see how things progress with this.

[Buffycat3]

Perhaps they are trying to steer away from the huge, rugged, steroid-like looking women.
I am ok with Womens Physique Division, and the more femininity of the poses (open hand like NABBA Figure ) ONLY IF it was to stay within the muscular physique.
I do not want it being judged by the 'enhanced' women ..meaning women with breast implants...which is what I am afraid that this division will end up being.
It wouldn't be fair for women who work hard at creating a muscular physique be pushed to the back of the line if she chooses to be totally natural and doesn't want to go the distance of breast enhancing.

[pmbpro]

I'm just thinking what started out as a "man's" sport sure has been overtaken by females! Poor dudes only have bodybuilding to choose from in most organizations. The women have bodybuilding, fitness, figure, bikini and now physique to choose from! Crazy! .....and I already have a hard time deciding

True, about the many women's categories and seems like a good income booster for the orgs, having more females compete. What's interesting though is that regarding *prize money/packages* the men's seem to still far outweigh what the women get put together! I wont even *dare* mention the recent prize money differences in the 2010 Olympia contest either <shudder> when females busted their chops to get there too...

I was hoping to compete in BB someday. Physique, in terms of placement between Figure and the bigger female BBers, may be closer to what I can get to, but I have a feeling the details/rules/judging may end up turning me off. :-(

I'm so NOT a "Bikini" or "Figure" girl. I'd lose points for just *trying* to wear heels (besides, I'm "allergic" to heels). LOL! If I'm gonna bust my chops to build as much muscle as I can, I wanna show every grain and sinew off! :-D

I'm looking forward to hearing what these Physique "details" will be. In the meantime, I'll still be "buildin' a better body" (competing or not). ;-D

[dvsness]

Perhaps they are trying to steer away from the huge, rugged, steroid-like looking women.
I am ok with Womens Physique Division, and the more femininity of the poses (open hand like NABBA Figure ) ONLY IF it was to stay within the muscular physique.
I do not want it being judged by the 'enhanced' women ..meaning women with breast implants...which is what I am afraid that this division will end up being.
It wouldn't be fair for women who work hard at creating a muscular physique be pushed to the back of the line if she chooses to be totally natural and doesn't want to go the distance of breast enhancing.

So you're saying that you don't think that you can do well without a breast augmentation? Where is this coming from? I'd be more apt to say that a pretty face impacts judging more than enhanced breasts.

[kimm4]

So you're saying that you don't think that you can do well without a breast augmentation? Where is this coming from? I'd be more apt to say that a pretty face impacts judging more than enhanced breasts.

In the new division you are being judged on looks. When does looks only include a pretty face?

Let's put the breast issue aside for a moment and think of a competitor that might not be very attractive. She's got the best bod in the division, but she doesn't have a pretty face...so it hurts her placing? Oh this just keeps getting better and better.

It'll be interesting indeed...

[Buffycat3]

I've been doing searches and reading on the New Women's Physique Division.
I am torn between liking it and fearing it.

The reason to like it would be the fact that I think a Woman's Muscular Physique IS Sexy, Sensual.
Seeing a woman with hard earned muscles ...lean and defined ...is very appealing.
So to have a division where the female body is protrayed as a harder figure/lighter bber.....Is great with me.
I see a woman's muscular body as a work of art.
and showing it off and being judged with 'feminity' is super.

What I fear is that it will take away those who are FBB, who have worked hard and achieved their hard body.
I don't want FBB to disapear.
And I don't want a bodybuilding comp turned into a 'beauty pagent' either.
I also would not like it to become too cheezy with costumes and props..(just thinkin further).


I am torn...I guess I will have to wait and see how this all works out.
If it comes to be a real and true division...then I will accept it.
and hope it works out for the good of all concerned


G'day to everyone..Keep the passion of buliding a strong sexy physique Alive!!!


.

[dvsness]

In the new division you are being judged on looks. When does looks only include a pretty face?

Let's put the breast issue aside for a moment and think of a competitor that might not be very attractive. She's got the best bod in the division, but she doesn't have a pretty face...so it hurts her placing? Oh this just keeps getting better and better.

It'll be interesting indeed...

Unfortunately ALL female judging deals with that currently. ALL. If you don't agree, you're naive. If 2 women have a similar physique and one has a pretty face, she will win. Do I think it's fair? NO. But until we have more women judging women, it will continue. Largely male judging panels dictate that beyond the physique standards, face counts. Look at when NWL was winner of the Arnold and O in Figure. She has great structure, but she was softer than most damn Bikini winners. No breast augmentation at that time, but very, very pretty.

I've been doing searches and reading on the New Women's Physique Division.
I am torn between liking it and fearing it.

The reason to like it would be the fact that I think a Woman's Muscular Physique IS Sexy, Sensual.
Seeing a woman with hard earned muscles ...lean and defined ...is very appealing.
So to have a division where the female body is protrayed as a harder figure/lighter bber.....Is great with me.
I see a woman's muscular body as a work of art.
and showing it off and being judged with 'feminity' is super.

What I fear is that it will take away those who are FBB, who have worked hard and achieved their hard body.
I don't want FBB to disapear.
And I don't want a bodybuilding comp turned into a 'beauty pagent' either.
I also would not like it to become too cheezy with costumes and props..(just thinkin further).


I am torn...I guess I will have to wait and see how this all works out.
If it comes to be a real and true division...then I will accept it.
and hope it works out for the good of all concerned


G'day to everyone..Keep the passion of buliding a strong sexy physique Alive!!!


.

I agree with being torn between liking/fearing.

Steve Weinberger has said FBB is NOT going anywhere, so it appears that Bob Chick's postings were merely wishful thinking on his part. However, FBB will have to really show up and compete. There have to be enough FBB competing for the promoters to profit while paying a sanctioning fee.

[kimm4]

Unfortunately ALL female judging deals with that currently. ALL. If you don't agree, you're naive. If 2 women have a similar physique and one has a pretty face, she will win. Do I think it's fair? NO. But until we have more women judging women, it will continue. Largely male judging panels dictate that beyond the physique standards, face counts. Look at when NWL was winner of the Arnold and O in Figure. She has great structure, but she was softer than most damn Bikini winners. No breast augmentation at that time, but very, very pretty.

I don't think of myself as naive. I've competed in over 25 shows (plus attended more then I can count) and I can tell you that some of the best bodies with a pretty face don't always win. I've seen plenty of not so attractive girls win...not only in BB but Figure too. I've competed in many different orgs, not just NPC...so they're all a little different. I've seen a lot of orgs that when they bring the figure girls out, they switch over the judges and use more women. (which I think is great!)

But yes, I agree it is changing.

[dvsness]

I don't think of myself as naive. I've competed in over 25 shows (plus attended more then I can count) and I can tell you that some of the best bodies with a pretty face don't always win. I've seen plenty of not so attractive girls win...not only in BB but Figure too. I've competed in many different orgs, not just NPC...so they're all a little different. I've seen a lot of orgs that when they bring the figure girls out, they switch over the judges and use more women. (which I think is great!)

But yes, I agree it is changing.

I would love to see only physiques being judged, but that is not my experience. I have seen less attractive women win, but only in FBB, and only when they brought an undeniable package... and not recently. Actually, if you look at the Pro cards handed out in FBB this year, there is a common trait - many are Figure crossovers. Hmmm.

They say they are looking for the 'total package' which IMO is a euphemism for cuteness or 'fuckable factor'. I suppose stage presence and posing falls under that 'total package' umbrella, but I have never seen it applied to the MEN. The men can just have shape, size and conditioning. They don't need this magical pretty package.

Personally I don't think facial attractiveness should be a factor, but I do think that there is a problem with extremely androgynous appearance.

I would be thrilled to see judging panels like the ones you mentioned. They may be forced to at least switch the judges a bit since there are so many divisions that the shows will simply be too long (at least at the National level).

[Italianangel]

good, maybe now figure can soften up, I know in the states is was where they got big and hard from when it began in the 90s, now they are softening but Canadian figure from last year anyway was very bulky bodybuilder-y.......this will help bring figure to where it was supposed to be, not where it went and hopefully this means us fitness gals don't have to come in at 6% anymore and maybe we can do like we used to and come in at 10-12% which was how it used to be when i began mid 90s, I barely had to diet back then and you did not need a solid hard 6 pack and huge delts.......I want to see fitness soften up too.
You take the top 5 Olympia fitness - put them in a posing suit and tell me they cannot almost pass for bodybuilding mind you even that has gotten too far for women too, they need to soften ladies comp classes down from fitness up to bb............the pressure for female bodybuilding is so intense and I feel for them cuz they need so much more prep time and sometimes get news without much time to prep and react to that news whether it be weight class changes, capping class weight, look from one year to the next changing....so unfair for them!!
I would like to see the days of Cory Everyson type bodies come back for bodybuilding, not the lenda murray look which has blown out of proportion to go beyond.
I used to love Sharon Bruneaus' look, she was one of my faves..........now we cannot even look like that for fitness, fitness is harder than was BB was in Cory everson and Sharons day!!!! Well I am exaggerating a bit but making a point. If you want to go ifbb pro you know you know your look is going to have to go extreme and it should not be like that, I have had to add much more muscle than in the past I would have even fathomed, now I know I can lose it again but if I want my card I have to get bulkier than I ever had been or wanted.......again I know I can lose it after I retire if I choose and don't have to stay bulky but if we softened up the fitness look, more girls will have a better chance with less pressure to use A S.

[Italianangel]

These federations do not add categories for the athletes........they add them for the bottom line.......its not for us, its for them....and yeah I recall the old days of fitness and bb only, the show was over by 10pm.....now they should do as the emerald cup if they want all these additional categories, split up fit/fig/bikini on one night, bb on the other.

Most people go to bb for the bb, not the fitness or bikini and most people bitch about the heel divisions and don't get it, don't get why they are there or how its related to bb and each class looks the same to them, I have had so many people ask me what is the diff, they are all in heels.. hahahaha............having run shows myself and having competing in every federation and category, I know that is the main feedback I see.
Even when it was just BB and fitness, the audience tolerated us cuz of the neat routines otherwise really, they are there for the bb in most cases, not counting the friends or family who just come for the competitor on stage that they know........many people come just for BB, regardless if they know anyone competing.....catch, back, then they did not make the money they do now and the ladies classes bring in the cash......push media like fame does and everyone who wants to be discovered or in a magazine enters..............
if they go back to just bb and fitness........they lose money. so don't fool yourself thinking the added classes are there for the athlete.

[hieronymous]

@Italianangel

I think higher levels of body fat in competition for the divisions with more muscle mass would be a fantastic way for the sport to go. That would increase the level of perceived femininity which would enhance marketability, and also be healthier for female competitors.