This whole homosexual thing...

[Enoptix]

Homosexualitiy seems to be a popular subject in this part of the forums.. (largely in part of John H.'s posts).. lol.. and then it turns into this huge flame fest and blah blah blah...

Yea.. well I wanna say some things about it... I have some points...

1) People do not choose to be gay. Wouldn't it make sense to you that in todays society NO ONE would be gay if they had the choice? Seeing as how gay people are treated, I would think not. Your born with preferences and tendencies. Straight people dont just decide one day that their gonna wanna **** women do they? NO! You do what ever feels natural. Well, if your born with a sexual drive towards men, your gonna wanna **** men. It's simple. You can't be "raised" to be gay. It's just preference like anything else (fav color, fav kinda car, etc...)

2) God and homosexuality... I really don't get the bible and stuff... I thought god loved everyone.. does he not? How can he send someone to hell for being gay if he made them that way? I could understand someone that killed someone going to hell, but not being gay. Once again, You don't choose to be gay...

I can truely understand people hating gay people. It's just like racism and etc etc... It's just that people get scared of what they aren't used to or know about... but the thing about homosexuality is that EVERYONE internally understands it. It's just that people can't possibly think it's that simple. All it is, is a preference.. nothing less or more. It's either I like girls, boys, or both. It's all the same emotion and stuff... just different physically...

I don't get why people try to make things so complicated.. Sex is sex whether it's a girl or boy... reproduction is a whole diff story...

oh as for me... I consider myself label free, but if you were gonna label me I would be bisexual. I don't act gay at all, and no one would ever guess that I enjoy men AND women... I look at it as a heightened state of being... I feel like I understand more than just "straight" or just "gay" people...

o and one more thing... this message wasn't a lecture for just people who are "straight" but for "gay" people too. I think gays are just as guilty as straights are about not understanding and **** like that.

....yea just my 2 cents. Peace!

[Enoptix]

31 views and no comments...

[Takji_0018]

Society does put a lot of pressure on homosexuality and bisexuality, I believe. Society says to do this, to do that, be like this, ect. Homo/Bisexuality is completely natural and I have no problem with it at all. Most of the time, people can't even tell that someone is gay. There are alot of stereotypes that label gays as limp-wristed sissy boys. This is obviously not so. Sports athletes, actors, ect. have came out as gay. I have know people who I would never have thought to be gay unless they told me. If you knew someone for a long time and he came out, why would it bother you? You knew that person without even knowing he was gay. Why would it bother you now? It is a natural thing so deal with it already. It is a proven fact that most heterosexual males have at least one homosexual experience at some point in life.

[Jcfreak_02]

Originally posted by Enoptix
Homosexualitiy seems to be a popular subject in this part of the forums.. (largely in part of John H.'s posts).. lol.. and then it turns into this huge flame fest and blah blah blah...

Yea.. well I wanna say some things about it... I have some points...

1) People do not choose to be gay. Wouldn't it make sense to you that in todays society NO ONE would be gay if they had the choice? Seeing as how gay people are treated, I would think not. Your born with preferences and tendencies. Straight people dont just decide one day that their gonna wanna **** women do they? NO! You do what ever feels natural. Well, if your born with a sexual drive towards men, your gonna wanna **** men. It's simple. You can't be "raised" to be gay. It's just preference like anything else (fav color, fav kinda car, etc...)

2) God and homosexuality... I really don't get the bible and stuff... I thought god loved everyone.. does he not? How can he send someone to hell for being gay if he made them that way? I could understand someone that killed someone going to hell, but not being gay. Once again, You don't choose to be gay...

People chose to commit the sexual act. I personally think people are not born gay. All the genes do it tell us who and what is attractive, one can change it or embrace it.
You don't know what you started by mentioning God. God does love everyone. However, if one does not accept the forgiveness of Jesus Christ,, God cannot be with sin. A sinner and that varries from lying, murder, premarital sex and homesexual sex. Any sin keeps you eternally apart from God. He still loves us, but love does not mean looking blindly to wrongs committed. Love includes giving fair punishment. We all deserve to go to Hell, yes, even me. However, because I have accepted Jesus as Lord, he has saved me for all the sins I have committed and will commit.

[phreak]

Originally posted by Enoptix
31 views and no comments...

Because you've said it very well.

[phreak]

On a different note:

Why must some people always bring religion into these (or any)discussions? If your religion precludes you having non-heterosexual intercourse: fine. That's how you choose to live, that's what you've chosen to believe. But please do not use those arguments to condemn the actions of others that do not share your chosen world view.

Realise that other people might have a completely different perspective. How can I go to hell if I am convinced it is a figment of some other people's imagination? Try to keep subjective/emotional arguments out of discussions.

[Ihateeveryone]

Originally posted by Enoptix
1) People do not choose to be gay. Wouldn't it make sense to you that in todays society NO ONE would be gay if they had the choice? Seeing as how gay people are treated, I would think not. Your born with preferences and tendencies. Straight people dont just decide one day that their gonna wanna **** women do they? NO! You do what ever feels natural. Well, if your born with a sexual drive towards men, your gonna wanna **** men. It's simple. You can't be "raised" to be gay. It's just preference like anything else (fav color, fav kinda car, etc...)

Bull****. I don't walk around craving a woman to f*ck - I choose to do it, because it is normal. God made Adam and Eve, not Adam and Steve. I suspect most gays want to suck dick or do whatever they do - they don't feel the need to, they want to.

[Enoptix]

ihateeveryone, so you don't enjoy having sex with women? you just choose to? its because you want to! Same thing with gay people...

Jc_freak... I see your view... but i dont think it makes much sense in some ways. Sure gay people choose to have sex with men, but it's because they want to, not because they know its wrong and feel that they have to be bad. They are sexually attracted to men. If they chose to have only sex with women, they would still be gay, but no one would know and they would probably be unhappy... The sexual act of having sex with the same sex is not what makes you gay. It's whats inside your head.

[ando88]

Originally posted by Jcfreak_02
People chose to commit the sexual act. I personally think people are not born gay. All the genes do it tell us who and what is attractive, one can change it or embrace it.
You don't know what you started by mentioning God. God does love everyone. However, if one does not accept the forgiveness of Jesus Christ,, God cannot be with sin. A sinner and that varries from lying, murder, premarital sex and homesexual sex. Any sin keeps you eternally apart from God. He still loves us, but love does not mean looking blindly to wrongs committed. Love includes giving fair punishment. We all deserve to go to Hell, yes, even me. However, because I have accepted Jesus as Lord, he has saved me for all the sins I have committed and will commit.

bump

It is ok to be homosexual, however it is sinful to practice homosexual sex

so you can a same sex partner as long as you dont have sex and you are not sinning

[mariners216]

Originally posted by ando88
bump

It is ok to be homosexual, however it is sinful to practice homosexual sex

so you can a same sex partner as long as you dont have sex and you are not sinning

Oh God..how can people bump this sh*t? I know arguing with you will never cause you to change your beliefs. Do you realize that you're not going to change anyone elses? And if you do, why do you continue to judge people like this? Does it make you feel like you're better than these people when you say they are "sinning"? I hope not.

I feel I speak for alot of people here when I simply ask you to refer to what George Carlin said he would add as the 11th Commandment...

KEEP THY RELIGION TO THYSELF

[mickey58]

Originally posted by mariners216
Oh God..how can people bump this sh*t? I know arguing with you will never cause you to change your beliefs. Do you realize that you're not going to change anyone elses? And if you do, why do you continue to judge people like this? Does it make you feel like you're better than these people when you say they are "sinning"? I hope not.

I feel I speak for alot of people here when I simply ask you to refer to what George Carlin said he would add as the 11th Commandment...

KEEP THY RELIGION TO THYSELF

No flame intended but the original thread starter brought religion into the subject w/statement #2.

[mickey58]

Originally posted by Enoptix
Homosexualitiy seems to be a popular subject in this part of the forums.. (largely in part of John H.'s posts).. lol.. and then it turns into this huge flame fest and blah blah blah...

Yea.. well I wanna say some things about it... I have some points...

1) People do not choose to be gay. Wouldn't it make sense to you that in todays society NO ONE would be gay if they had the choice? Seeing as how gay people are treated, I would think not. Your born with preferences and tendencies. Straight people dont just decide one day that their gonna wanna **** women do they? NO! You do what ever feels natural. Well, if your born with a sexual drive towards men, your gonna wanna **** men. It's simple. You can't be "raised" to be gay. It's just preference like anything else (fav color, fav kinda car, etc...)

2) God and homosexuality... I really don't get the bible and stuff... I thought god loved everyone.. does he not? How can he send someone to hell for being gay if he made them that way? I could understand someone that killed someone going to hell, but not being gay. Once again, You don't choose to be gay...

I can truely understand people hating gay people. It's just like racism and etc etc... It's just that people get scared of what they aren't used to or know about... but the thing about homosexuality is that EVERYONE internally understands it. It's just that people can't possibly think it's that simple. All it is, is a preference.. nothing less or more. It's either I like girls, boys, or both. It's all the same emotion and stuff... just different physically...

I don't get why people try to make things so complicated.. Sex is sex whether it's a girl or boy... reproduction is a whole diff story...

oh as for me... I consider myself label free, but if you were gonna label me I would be bisexual. I don't act gay at all, and no one would ever guess that I enjoy men AND women... I look at it as a heightened state of being... I feel like I understand more than just "straight" or just "gay" people...

o and one more thing... this message wasn't a lecture for just people who are "straight" but for "gay" people too. I think gays are just as guilty as straights are about not understanding and **** like that.

....yea just my 2 cents. Peace!

I'll have to agree that you don't quite understand the scriptures but I'll help you a little. There is only one sin that is mentioned in the bible that directly states that if you commit this sin then you will be eternally damned to hell forever. That sin is the rejection of Gods son Jesus Christ and His finished work on the cross. Basically, the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus Christ for the remmission of sins. Hope this helps you to understand a little better.

[Skullder]

if you really want to use religion, why not take a look at other religions attitude toward homosexuals?

on second thought, dont.

[Enoptix]

i didn't really mean to drag religion into it, im just talking about the bible the bible is not limited to one religion. I also have alot of stuff to say about religion, but this isn't the subject.. let's stay on topic.

thanks mickey for that info. basically, the bible says that if you don't believe in him, he wont believe in you.

[mariners216]

Originally posted by Enoptix
thanks mickey for that info. basically, the bible says that if you don't believe in him, he wont believe in you.

Biggest fault about the bible is that it's so left open to interpretation...which means that even though the logical thing to think is what you said, people can twist it to justify their every prejudice, fear, etc.

back on topic, I agree with you that people are born gay, instead of choosing to be.

[SlateDrake]

Originally posted by Jcfreak_02
People chose to commit the sexual act. I personally think people are not born gay. All the genes do it tell us who and what is attractive, one can change it or embrace it.
You don't know what you started by mentioning God. God does love everyone. However, if one does not accept the forgiveness of Jesus Christ,, God cannot be with sin. A sinner and that varries from lying, murder, premarital sex and homesexual sex. Any sin keeps you eternally apart from God. He still loves us, but love does not mean looking blindly to wrongs committed. Love includes giving fair punishment. We all deserve to go to Hell, yes, even me. However, because I have accepted Jesus as Lord, he has saved me for all the sins I have committed and will commit.

That's a sweet little deal. How much?

[phreak]

Originally posted by SlateDrake
That's a sweet little deal. How much?

Exactly! Gotta remember to accept Jesus into my heart the moment I'm dying. That'll magically take care of all the rapes and murders I've committed, and I can go to heaven anyway! Wicked!



[/sarcasm]

[SlateDrake]

Originally posted by mariners216
Biggest fault about the bible is that it's so left open to interpretation...which means that even though the logical thing to think is what you said, people can twist it to justify their every prejudice, fear, etc.

back on topic, I agree with you that people are born gay, instead of choosing to be.

Actually I would have to say the the biggest problem with the bible is that is was:

1) Written by men and not jesus

2) Written 300 years (during and after the reign of Julian) after the death of Christ

3) Bastardized over 20 different religions into one homogenious story (i.e., The original guy to return from the dead in spring was a greek god named Helios, and then the greeks also had a godess that celebrated her feast around the same time...the feast of Eastradia (sound familar...see where this is going...)

4) Was written by political church managment to further their own ends.


Anyway...for what's it's worth.

Love is love, who cares from who to whom ever.

Wow...how did I get sucked into this!?!?!?

[Jcfreak_02]

Originally posted by phreak
On a different note:

Why must some people always bring religion into these (or any)discussions? If your religion precludes you having non-heterosexual intercourse: fine. That's how you choose to live, that's what you've chosen to believe. But please do not use those arguments to condemn the actions of others that do not share your chosen world view.

Realise that other people might have a completely different perspective. How can I go to hell if I am convinced it is a figment of some other people's imagination? Try to keep subjective/emotional arguments out of discussions.

You think they are subjective/emotional, I think they are absolute. If I keep quiet, then how do am I being set apart from the rest of the world?

[Jcfreak_02]

Originally posted by Enoptix
ihateeveryone, so you don't enjoy having sex with women? you just choose to? its because you want to! Same thing with gay people...

Jc_freak... I see your view... but i dont think it makes much sense in some ways. Sure gay people choose to have sex with men, but it's because they want to, not because they know its wrong and feel that they have to be bad. They are sexually attracted to men. If they chose to have only sex with women, they would still be gay, but no one would know and they would probably be unhappy... The sexual act of having sex with the same sex is not what makes you gay. It's whats inside your head.

In many churches, there are programs called He Is Strong, it is a support group for men with homosexual feelings. True, gay is more determined in one's head. However, gay is accepting those feelings versus getting help to be straight. If one wants to be straight.

[Jcfreak_02]

Originally posted by mariners216

KEEP THY RELIGION TO THYSELF

I would like to sometimes, but I am commanded not to. I follow Jesus. I am supposed to act as Jesus did. Jesus did not keep his religion to himself, therefore, if I am to be as Jesus was, I cannot keep my religion to myself.

[phreak]

Originally posted by Jcfreak_02
I would like to sometimes, but I am commanded not to. I follow Jesus. I am supposed to act as Jesus did. Jesus did not keep his religion to himself, therefore, if I am to be as Jesus was, I cannot keep my religion to myself.

The irony is that zealots like yourself are what make me dislike religion. I know a local priest quite well. And I think he's a great man. He has NEVER tried to influence me in any way. He rather leads by example than by rhetoric. Is he going to hell for not actively trying to convert me?

As for your prior message: could you please try with a different grammatical structure? I'm not exactly following you there.

[SlateDrake]

Originally posted by Jcfreak_02
I would like to sometimes, but I am commanded not to. I follow Jesus. I am supposed to act as Jesus did. Jesus did not keep his religion to himself, therefore, if I am to be as Jesus was, I cannot keep my religion to myself.

Sweet...so you'll be converting to Judaism soon, correct?

Jesus didn't have anything to do with Christian beliefs...remember that was all put together centuries after his death.

He lived and died as a jew.

OY!!

[clutch154]

Originally posted by SlateDrake
Actually I would have to say the the biggest problem with the bible is that is was:

1) Written by men and not jesus

2) Written 300 years (during and after the reign of Julian) after the death of Christ

3) Bastardized over 20 different religions into one homogenious story (i.e., The original guy to return from the dead in spring was a greek god named Helios, and then the greeks also had a godess that celebrated her feast around the same time...the feast of Eastradia (sound familar...see where this is going...)

4) Was written by political church managment to further their own ends.


Anyway...for what's it's worth.

Love is love, who cares from who to whom ever.

Wow...how did I get sucked into this!?!?!?

I wanted to say the same thing but probably would have taken a PAGE to do it.

JCFreak...what do you do for a living?

[Jcfreak_02]

Originally posted by SlateDrake
Actually I would have to say the the biggest problem with the bible is that is was:

1) Written by men and not jesus

2) Written 300 years (during and after the reign of Julian) after the death of Christ

3) Bastardized over 20 different religions into one homogenious story (i.e., The original guy to return from the dead in spring was a greek god named Helios, and then the greeks also had a godess that celebrated her feast around the same time...the feast of Eastradia (sound familar...see where this is going...)

4) Was written by political church managment to further their own ends.


Anyway...for what's it's worth.

Love is love, who cares from who to whom ever.

Wow...how did I get sucked into this!?!?!?

Jesus' personal assitants and people who worked with Jesus physiclly wrote the Bible. Something no one ever points out when they say that it was written over hundreds of years by many people, all the while it has the same theme and does not contradict. If anyone wants to go there, show me and I will deal with it accordingly.

Considering other anciet manuscripts written after the event happened, I will pull out which ones when I find my book, the time span from when the Bible was written to when it happened is very close.

Hey, when you got good themes in one religion, others just might agree. The most specific thing that has not been basterized is the theme that God, came down in the form of man, a perfect man then died to save us.

[Jcfreak_02]

Originally posted by clutch154
JCFreak...what do you do for a living?

I am studying to become an Mechanical Engineer, I am goign on my sophmore year at junior college. My hobbies include studying other religions, evolution, and other hot topics though.

[Jcfreak_02]

Originally posted by phreak
The irony is that zealots like yourself are what make me dislike religion. I know a local priest quite well. And I think he's a great man. He has NEVER tried to influence me in any way. He rather leads by example than by rhetoric. Is he going to hell for not actively trying to convert me?

As for your prior message: could you please try with a different grammatical structure? I'm not exactly following you there.

He is actively doing so. You notice he lives differently, that is enough. Whether or not he Bible thumps does not determine how active he is.
He is following Mattew 5:16, "In the same way, let your light shine before men, that they may see your good deeds and praise your Father in heaven. "
I am representing Christ the best I know how on these forums and in life. Please define zealot and continue to explain how my point of view of religion puts a bad taste in your mouth.

[Jcfreak_02]

Originally posted by SlateDrake
Sweet...so you'll be converting to Judaism soon, correct?

Jesus didn't have anything to do with Christian beliefs...remember that was all put together centuries after his death.

He lived and died as a jew.

OY!!

Excepting the part that he claimed to be God. The Gospels were written within 75 years of Jesus' death BTW. The Jews rejected Jesus as the Messiah, and so Christianity started. Notice the root word of Christian, Christ. As to be Christ like. There are many people who claim to be Christians but do not know what that means.

[ChaosJester]

Originally posted by Jcfreak_02
People chose to commit the sexual act. I personally think people are not born gay. All the genes do it tell us who and what is attractive, one can change it or embrace it.
You don't know what you started by mentioning God. God does love everyone. However, if one does not accept the forgiveness of Jesus Christ,, God cannot be with sin. A sinner and that varies from lying, murder, premarital sex and homosexual sex. Any sin keeps you eternally apart from God. He still loves us, but love does not mean looking blindly to wrongs committed. Love includes giving fair punishment. We all deserve to go to Hell, yes, even me. However, because I have accepted Jesus as Lord, he has saved me for all the sins I have committed and will commit.

Although I slightly agree with you on this point, I do not believe that God will punish us for being gay. I am not gay nor bi, but I do not believe that what they do is wrong. I believe that many parts of the bible are misinterpreted or written in to serve a purpose of a leader. I am a Christian thick and through, but I believe the bible has been altered and warped by the wicked hand of man to achieve means left to their own vices.

A good argument in for your side though...
If a man is attracted to under-age women, like per say 12-14 year olds, would it make it right in the eyes of god to act upon those impulses "just" because he is attracted to those girls? It is not "HIS" fault he attracted to them... Just a good piece of argument.

The bible thumping thing though, JCFREAK, I have to say is a definite negative for our Christian cause. I am very much often turned away from my beliefs from bible thumpers. Sharing your views, is by no means wrong, but being unyielding, not willing to see another persons beliefs or chastising them (saying you will burn if you do not think this way or act this way) is the WORST way to bring others into the church. Who wants to embrace an ideal where they think they can never have any fun and will probably go to hell anyway??? Just my opinion!

[jon84]

here is the thing.
The Bible does say that God calls gay people unrighteous.
And he also mentions that they will not inherit his kingdom.
At 1 Corinthians 6:9-10 this mentions many of the things that
God hate, among those its mentions"men who lie with men".
So according to the Bible which was inspired by God it show that God doesn't approve of it. but it mention in verse 11 that They can change there ways. But this is only if people want to follow Gods standards and make that change because they love God to the full that they are willing to make those changes. The fact is people will do what they want it's there choice. Even if it is agains Gods laws.