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Thread: "refeed days"

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    "refeed days"

    how exactly do these benefit you?? i am trying to end a vicious cycle of binging and the fact they are all unplanned makes it worse. are they pretty much the same as cheat meals? can you plan them even if you are trying to lose bodyfat?
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    Originally Posted by dm2711 View Post
    how exactly do these benefit you?? i am trying to end a vicious cycle of binging and the fact they are all unplanned makes it worse. are they pretty much the same as cheat meals? can you plan them even if you are trying to lose bodyfat?
    Refeeds are optimal after dieting for extensive periods of time. If your goal is to lose weight, then you'd refeed less at a higher BF%, and would refeed more often as your BF% decreases.

    The point is to reset Leptin levels in your body: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leptin

    And no, a refeed is not exactly a cheat. First, it should be planned. Secondly, you're supposed to keep your fat intake lower than 30% of your calories that day. What I've read before is that it should look like 40%carbs, 25% fat, 35% protein. So your carbs would be the highest macro that day. And the total amount of calories is up to you, but should be higher than your maintenance, by at least 200. I'd recommend 400 over.

    So, it's the difference between binging on chocolate cake, fried ice cream and bacon rollups (cheat) (*drool*) versus eating pumpkin bread, pasta with marinera and a breast of chicken, and some fruit juice (also *drool*)

    But if I'm wrong, or anyone could expand on my post, please, go ahead. I'm not claiming to be an expert.
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    Originally Posted by digitalbath11 View Post
    Refeeds are optimal after dieting for extensive periods of time. If your goal is to lose weight, then you'd refeed less at a higher BF%, and would refeed more often as your BF% decreases.

    The point is to reset Leptin levels in your body: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leptin

    And no, a refeed is not exactly a cheat. First, it should be planned. Secondly, you're supposed to keep your fat intake lower than 30% of your calories that day. What I've read before is that it should look like 40%carbs, 25% fat, 35% protein. So your carbs would be the highest macro that day. And the total amount of calories is up to you, but should be higher than your maintenance, by at least 200. I'd recommend 400 over.

    So, it's the difference between binging on chocolate cake, fried ice cream and bacon rollups (cheat) (*drool*) versus eating pumpkin bread, pasta with marinera and a breast of chicken, and some fruit juice (also *drool*)

    But if I'm wrong, or anyone could expand on my post, please, go ahead. I'm not claiming to be an expert.
    wait 40-25-35? that's basically what i do now.. haha
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    Drop protein to 1g/lb, decrease fat to as low as you feel comfortable with. High insulin = dietary fat transport into adipose tissue. Increase your calories to maintenance and make up those calories from extra carbohydrates.
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    Originally Posted by MrB1g View Post
    Drop protein to 1g/lb, decrease fat to as low as you feel comfortable with. High insulin = dietary fat transport into adipose tissue. Increase your calories to maintenance and make up those calories from extra carbohydrates.
    Huh????
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    Originally Posted by dm2711 View Post
    how exactly do these benefit you?? i am trying to end a vicious cycle of binging and the fact they are all unplanned makes it worse. are they pretty much the same as cheat meals? can you plan them even if you are trying to lose bodyfat?
    You need to figure out why you are bingeing, not just wrap it up as a refeed. What's your caloric intake? How long have you been at a deficit. Is it at a certain time a day? An emotional response? Etc.
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    Originally Posted by freebirdmac View Post
    Huh????
    That's a pretty common setup for a refeed day. What's the prob
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    Originally Posted by MrB1g View Post
    That's a pretty common setup for a refeed day. What's the prob
    She's not keto so dropping fat and protein for a carb boost isn't warranted. Her diet is moderate. If any refeed days are necessary she can raise cals through carbs and fat or whichever she wants.
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    Originally Posted by freebirdmac View Post
    She's not keto so dropping fat and protein for a carb boost isn't warranted. Her diet is moderate. If any refeed days are necessary she can raise cals through carbs and fat or whichever she wants.
    Umm what?

    Her diet is moderate? The only reference the OP has made to her diet is her approximate macronutritional ratio.


    She asked about a refeed day, I posted a very common setup for a refeed day, I'm curious why I'm getting criticised for this? I have no idea if refeed days are necessary because I have no idea of her caloric intake or how far into a cut she is.


    There is no point refeeding on dietary fat.
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    Originally Posted by freebirdmac View Post
    You need to figure out why you are bingeing, not just wrap it up as a refeed. What's your caloric intake? How long have you been at a deficit. Is it at a certain time a day? An emotional response? Etc.
    this. and consider things like, is your deficit too big? are your macro's set up correctly for you (e.g., some people find that a higher percentage of fat is helpful)? do you like what you're eating and/or plan in treats or do you feel deprived? what's sparking the binges? how often are they happening? ...
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    Originally Posted by freebirdmac View Post
    You need to figure out why you are bingeing, not just wrap it up as a refeed. What's your caloric intake? How long have you been at a deficit. Is it at a certain time a day? An emotional response? Etc.


    1350 cals a day and i'm bingeing once a week now.. it used to only happen at night.. but today it was in the morning.. i went to bed hungry, woke up in the middle of the night starving, woke up this morning and ate my usual breakfast and more than i planned (which wasn't even that bad.. 2 cups of cantaloupe and 1 cup of broccoli) then i didn't feel like going to the gym because i was sore and then i just started eating.. and ate way more than i wanted to. probably about hit 4000 today because i went out to dinner.. not good. my parents went on vacation this morning too and the binges only happen when i'm alone.. BUT i'm starting new tomorrow. i just wanted to stop the unplanned binges, so i thought about allowing a cheat meal or even snack at times so i don't feel deprived.. that's the reason why i was asking what a refeed was.. (i've been dieting for over 2 years)
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    Originally Posted by dm2711 View Post
    1350 cals a day and i'm bingeing once a week now.. it used to only happen at night.. but today it was in the morning.. i went to bed hungry, woke up in the middle of the night starving, woke up this morning and ate my usual breakfast and more than i planned (which wasn't even that bad.. 2 cups of cantaloupe and 1 cup of broccoli) then i didn't feel like going to the gym because i was sore and then i just started eating.. and ate way more than i wanted to. probably about hit 4000 today because i went out to dinner.. not good. my parents went on vacation this morning too and the binges only happen when i'm alone.. BUT i'm starting new tomorrow. i just wanted to stop the unplanned binges, so i thought about allowing a cheat meal or even snack at times so i don't feel deprived.. that's the reason why i was asking what a refeed was.. (i've been dieting for over 2 years)
    If you're going to sleep hungry and waking up in the middle of the night starving you're not eating enough on a regular day to day basis and that would certainly contribute to you binge eating.


    A planned refeed is fine, an unplanned refeed can be very counterproductive.
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    Originally Posted by dm2711 View Post
    1350 cals a day and i'm bingeing once a week now.. it used to only happen at night.. but today it was in the morning.. i went to bed hungry, woke up in the middle of the night starving, woke up this morning and ate my usual breakfast and more than i planned (which wasn't even that bad.. 2 cups of cantaloupe and 1 cup of broccoli) then i didn't feel like going to the gym because i was sore and then i just started eating.. and ate way more than i wanted to. probably about hit 4000 today because i went out to dinner.. not good. my parents went on vacation this morning too and the binges only happen when i'm alone.. BUT i'm starting new tomorrow. i just wanted to stop the unplanned binges, so i thought about allowing a cheat meal or even snack at times so i don't feel deprived.. that's the reason why i was asking what a refeed was.. (i've been dieting for over 2 years)
    When was the last time you ate at maintenance for an extended period of time?
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    Originally Posted by freebirdmac View Post
    When was the last time you ate at maintenance for an extended period of time?

    well according to nutritiondata.com, my daily expenditure is 1856 at sedentary, so i subtracted 500 and got 1356.. so 1350 was my number. for the past maybe 4 weeks i haven't stuck to one number. my calories ranged from my lowest being 1166 and my highest would be today.. like 4000. i thought this week i was getting it right.. hitting 1325-1350 since sunday.. (my last binge was saturday).. but then it happened again. last friday i weighed myself and i was 116.6, the lowest i've been since july. i only started counting calories about a month or 2 ago, so i really haven't found that magic number for maintenance, weight loss, etc.. i feel like i will never be able to stay at any weight lower than 118. for some reason when i get closer to my goal, the more i cheat.
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    Originally Posted by dm2711 View Post
    well according to nutritiondata.com, my daily expenditure is 1856 at sedentary, so i subtracted 500 and got 1356.. so 1350 was my number. for the past maybe 4 weeks i haven't stuck to one number. my calories ranged from my lowest being 1166 and my highest would be today.. like 4000. i thought this week i was getting it right.. hitting 1325-1350 since sunday.. (my last binge was saturday).. but then it happened again. last friday i weighed myself and i was 116.6, the lowest i've been since july. i only started counting calories about a month or 2 ago, so i really haven't found that magic number for maintenance, weight loss, etc.. i feel like i will never be able to stay at any weight lower than 118. for some reason when i get closer to my goal, the more i cheat.
    500 deficit seems way too aggressive for someone with a 1800 maintenance. Maybe your goal should be a bit higher than 1350. Just sayin'.

    ETA: Just looked back at a previous thread where you were told 1350-1400 would be a good start. By Kimm4 no less, so maybe it's not too aggressive. Kimm4 knows what she's doing so ....
    hmmm.....
    Still, if you've been dieting for years, maybe it's time to just stay at maintenance for a while?
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    Originally Posted by thedogdidit View Post
    500 deficit seems way too aggressive for someone with a 1800 maintenance. Maybe your goal should be a bit higher than 1350. Just sayin'.

    what do you mean aggressive?
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    Originally Posted by freebirdmac View Post
    She's not keto so dropping fat and protein for a carb boost isn't warranted. Her diet is moderate. If any refeed days are necessary she can raise cals through carbs and fat or whichever she wants.
    Would you kindly clarify why refeeding on dietary fat is a good idea.
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    Originally Posted by dm2711 View Post
    well according to nutritiondata.com, my daily expenditure is 1856 at sedentary, so i subtracted 500 and got 1356.. so 1350 was my number. for the past maybe 4 weeks i haven't stuck to one number. my calories ranged from my lowest being 1166 and my highest would be today.. like 4000. i thought this week i was getting it right.. hitting 1325-1350 since sunday.. (my last binge was saturday).. but then it happened again. last friday i weighed myself and i was 116.6, the lowest i've been since july. i only started counting calories about a month or 2 ago, so i really haven't found that magic number for maintenance, weight loss, etc.. i feel like i will never be able to stay at any weight lower than 118. for some reason when i get closer to my goal, the more i cheat.
    You said you had been dieting for two years. The above is only for recently and really is all over the place

    Take a break. Breathe! Let's get you up to maintenance. Or rather try to find it. It'll be far easier losing that last little bit of fat if we can get you stable and out of the bingeing mode. Bring your cals up to your best guess at maintenance. Stay there for several weeks. If you see your weight is stable, go up more. Keep doing this until you start to see a gain. Holiday's are coming. Not a time to diet anyway. After the first of the year then try leaning out again.
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    Registered User thedogdidit's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by dm2711 View Post
    what do you mean aggressive?
    I just meant it might be too large a deficit for you.

    For someone whose maintenance is, say, 2200, a 500 deficit is about 23%. For you, a 500 calorie deficit is a 28% decrease. It may not seem like a big difference, but it could make all the difference in feeling a bit more satiated to eat just 100 calories more per day.

    But, that would really only work if your bingeing is a result of hunger. If you're bingeing for other reasons ... well, upping your calories isn't really going to help you.

    I'm kind of out of my league here ....
    I feel a bit too new at all of this to be advising you since bingeing is a whole different issue (LOL -- so why am I doing it?! Jeez .. I'll shut up now )
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  20. #20
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    Originally Posted by freebirdmac View Post
    You said you had been dieting for two years. The above is only for recently and really is all over the place

    Take a break. Breathe! Let's get you up to maintenance. Or rather try to find it. It'll be far easier losing that last little bit of fat if we can get you stable and out of the bingeing mode. Bring your cals up to your best guess at maintenance. Stay there for several weeks. If you see your weight is stable, go up more. Keep doing this until you start to see a gain. Holiday's are coming. Not a time to diet anyway. After the first of the year then try leaning out again.

    haha you mean eat around 1800 cals a day?
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  21. #21
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    Originally Posted by thedogdidit View Post
    I just meant it might be too large a deficit for you.

    For someone whose maintenance is, say, 2200, a 500 deficit is about 23%. For you, a 500 calorie deficit is a 28% decrease. It may not seem like a big difference, but it could make all the difference in feeling a bit more satiated to eat just 100 calories more per day.

    But, that would really only work if your bingeing is a result of hunger. If you're bingeing for other reasons ... well, upping your calories isn't really going to help you.

    I'm kind of out of my league here ....
    I feel a bit too new at all of this to be advising you since bingeing is a whole different issue (LOL -- so why am I doing it?! Jeez .. I'll shut up now )
    one of the reasons for the binge this morning was hunger.. like i said, i woke up in the middle of the night starving.. almost couldn't fall back to sleep! but then it's also those times when i eat something i didn't plan.. and then i turn to that "all or nothing" mode and eat wayy more than i should've. since sunday my defecits were 530, 668, 594, 608.. my binges are also ALWAYS on my days off which is a problem.
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  22. #22
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    Originally Posted by MrB1g View Post
    Would you kindly clarify why refeeding on dietary fat is a good idea.
    All you need to raise leptin is increased carbs. It's the excess that matters. There's no need to drop protein and drastically lower fat. Given her macros and knowing how most people cheat, most of the extra cals will come from carbs. Having some come from protein and fat isn't going to hold her back.
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    Originally Posted by dm2711 View Post
    haha you mean eat around 1800 cals a day?
    That's a start. But that's my maintenance. It can't be yours
    Depending on your activity level it could be well over 2100.
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    Originally Posted by freebirdmac View Post
    That's a start. But that's my maintenance. It can't be yours
    Depending on your activity level it could be well over 2100.

    over 2100 even if i'm still trying to lose bodyfat? i'm at 18 right now..my goal is 16. it's all in my stomach :P
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    Originally Posted by freebirdmac View Post
    All you need to raise leptin is increased carbs. It's the excess that matters. There's no need to drop protein and drastically lower fat. Given her macros and knowing how most people cheat, most of the extra cals will come from carbs. Having some come from protein and fat isn't going to hold her back.
    Fat has no impact on leptin levels and from what I've seen discussed (Layne Norton talks about it) the high insulin levels increase dietary fat transport into adipose tissue. So why eat fat on a refeed day?
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    Originally Posted by dm2711 View Post
    over 2100 even if i'm still trying to lose bodyfat? i'm at 18 right now..my goal is 16. it's all in my stomach :P
    What I'm saying is maybe you should forget fat loss for a few months. Find your maintenance. Get your eating under control. Give your body and mind a break from dieting.
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    Originally Posted by MrB1g View Post
    Fat has no impact on leptin levels and from what I've seen discussed (Layne Norton talks about it) the high insulin levels increase dietary fat transport into adipose tissue. So why eat fat on a refeed day?
    Carbs are more effective than fat or protein at increasing leptin. That's not the same thing as saying protein and fat have no impact. As little as 20-percent more cals can raise leptin. So there's no need to alter your other macros to get there. Or for most, even be nitpicky about what they eat. Most will get plenty of carbs on a refeed or cheat and be beyond 20%.

    A refeed isn't going to increase body fat unless you go over maintenance excessively or for too long. It's still cals in versus cals out. What we usually tell women to do is go back to maintenance for a week if it seems to be called for. Or in this case I'm suggesting she take a couple of months and get a grip on her eating. We rarely see or hear of anyone doing the 12 hour to two day, well above maintenance type refeed.
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    Originally Posted by dm2711 View Post
    wait 40-25-35? that's basically what i do now.. haha
    Perhaps this is the reason why you're not feeling satisfied. I respect Kimm's advice, but 1350 seems kinda low to maintain for anyone. Maybe 1400-1600 would be a better number for a little while. Get used to eating that amount, and if your fats are 25%, this could be making you hungry. It seems low. I'd do at least 30% fats. (approx. 40p/30c/30f) or if you are balls to the wall crazy with your activity level, then try 40c/30p/30f. I usually see better results with slightly lower carbs (when at a deficit).
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