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  1. #1
    Registered User Markyh's Avatar
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    What's better? A split routine or a full body workout

    I can workout about 3-4 times a week and am looking to gain mass
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    That's a question I'd like to know myself.
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    Originally Posted by Markyh View Post
    I can workout about 3-4 times a week and am looking to gain mass
    Id suggest a full body routine 3x a week. and some cardio on the off days when possible
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  4. #4
    65 tons of American Pride BluntD's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Markyh View Post
    I can workout about 3-4 times a week and am looking to gain mass
    Originally Posted by Seunketchup88 View Post
    That's a question I'd like to know myself.
    There's no one right answer to this question that is going to apply to every single person. People newer to lifting think it is so cut and dry with there being one method that will always be better than the others, but that's simply not the case. There's no magic program; otherwise everyone would be doing the same exact training regimen. There's only one real way to find out, and that's by experimenting and finding out what works best for you.


    Give us some more details about your current status, what you've accomplished so far with weight training, etc.
    Last edited by BluntD; 10-20-2010 at 05:35 AM.
    Return of the Mack?
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  5. #5
    Registered User Alexlexexx's Avatar
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    upper/lower split 6 days a week is superior to all..


    protein synthesis is elevated in every muscle at all times..


    3x full body is closest to this, but volume is a bit too low..
    halareous
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  6. #6
    Beltless BombDonald's Avatar
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    I have been training left/right body as of recent. Works alright.
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  7. #7
    Registered User Jippo's Avatar
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    I've never liked upper/lower, too much overlap with so much upper body work in one day and then significantly less on lower days. Overall i prefer fullbody training 3-6 days per week as it provides a good blend of exercise selection, volume and frequency.
    Live dangerously and you live right.
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    Registered User abdii's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Jippo View Post
    I've never liked upper/lower, too much overlap with so much upper body work in one day and then significantly less on lower days. Overall i prefer fullbody training 3-6 days per week as it provides a good blend of exercise selection, volume and frequency.
    what do you think about:

    Squat: 3-4X6-8/3' (3-4 sets of 6-8 with a 3' rest)
    SLDL: 3-4X6-8/3'
    Single Leg movement: 2-3X10-12/2'
    Natural GHR: 2-3X10-12/2'
    Calf raise: 3-4X6-8/3'
    Seated calf: 2-3X10-12/2'
    Abs/low back
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  9. #9
    Registered User kusok's Avatar
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    Lightbulb

    Originally Posted by Alexlexexx View Post
    upper/lower split 6 days a week is superior to all..


    protein synthesis is elevated in every muscle at all times..


    3x full body is closest to this, but volume is a bit too low..


    6 days = stupid (for naturals)
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  10. #10
    Registered User Jippo's Avatar
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    Personally i prefer to just squat more frequently, combined with deadlifts and calf work it's all i need to do for legs.
    Live dangerously and you live right.
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  11. #11
    Registered User kusok's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Markyh View Post
    I can workout about 3-4 times a week and am looking to gain mass

    Beginners should do full body 3x per week on non-consecutive days.

    Then you can move to lower/upper/off/lower/upper/off/off or something like that.

    Hitting each muscle group 1x per week is not optimum for naturals unless one is extremely advanced.
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  12. #12
    Registered User Dawginit's Avatar
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    Speaking as an old timer, here is what I think.

    If you are new or young full body three times a week is probably a good way to start. If you want to put on mass you will probably eventually want to move to a more intense routine working each body part once or twice a week.

    In order to put on mass, diet and exercise recovery is important. If you lift too often the body adapts with the muscle you have and muscle growth stalls.

    As you get older, it takes a little longer for the body to recover, so you have to have more rest/recovery time between body parts.

    I still do an old school push/pull/legs type routine

    Monday- chest and tricep
    Tuesday- Back and bicep
    Wednesday- legs
    Thursday- Shoulders/ abs
    Friday- bicep/tricep

    Saturday and Sunday- Off

    Stick with the basics for mass- Deadlift, pull-ups, bench and squats. After that do whatever exercises you enjoy or get value from.

    I very my exercises and rotate between strength programs for two months and hypertrophy (muscle growth) programs forthree to four months. It has worked well for me.

    I think most anything can be successful as long as you listen to your body, allow for recovery and adapt what you are doing to encourage new growth.











    Originally Posted by Markyh View Post
    I can workout about 3-4 times a week and am looking to gain mass
    "All things are difficult before they are easy."
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  13. #13
    Registered User deputy95's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by BombDonald View Post
    I have been training left/right body as of recent. Works alright.
    You mean one day you do right arm the other you do left?
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  14. #14
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    Thumbs up

    Originally Posted by deputy95 View Post
    You mean one day you do right arm the other you do left?

    Yeah, but even better is the 4-day's per week split:

    Monday and Thr: left side of the body push/right side of the body pull
    Tuesday and Fri: left side of the body pull/right side push
    Wed, sat and sun off.
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  15. #15
    Registered User Alexlexexx's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by kusok View Post
    6 days = stupid (for naturals)
    if you mean 6 days hitting each body part once weekly then yes..


    but 6 days upper lower is best for naturals..

    as long as the volume is low.. around 20 sets per day..


    go read some lyle mcdonald stuff
    halareous
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  16. #16
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    Originally Posted by BluntD View Post
    There's no one right answer to this question that is going to apply to every single person. People newer to lifting think it is so cut and dry with there being one method that will always be better than the others, but that's simply not the case. There's no magic program; otherwise everyone would be doing the same exact training regimen. There's only one real way to find out, and that's by experimenting and finding out what works best for you.


    Give us some more details about your current status, what you've accomplished so far with weight training, etc.
    what he said.

    in addition to that, if you are first starting off, then a 3 day fullbody would be an excellent choice...it gives your body a good chance to adapt, they are usually short and sweet sessions which offers a good starting point as you practice lifting technique and get into the swing of things...don't forget, just because you start off with a certain routine doesnt mean you have to use that routine forever...try out a nice solid beginner routine, then switch to a diff one when you are done...i personally think this is the best way when you are starting out due to the fact that you will be learning a lot about how your body responds to things (which is crucial as you progress into more advanced and personalized routines)
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    Originally Posted by Alexlexexx View Post
    if you mean 6 days hitting each body part once weekly then yes..


    but 6 days upper lower is best for naturals..

    as long as the volume is low.. around 20 sets per day..


    go read some lyle mcdonald stuff
    uh oh...
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  18. #18
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    Question

    Originally Posted by Alexlexexx View Post
    if you mean 6 days hitting each body part once weekly then yes..


    but 6 days upper lower is best for naturals..

    as long as the volume is low.. around 20 sets per day..


    go read some lyle mcdonald stuff

    ???

    What's wrong with Lyle's stuff?

    And present your sources please. You mean mon, wed and fri lower, and tue, thr, and sat upper? That is the most idiotic split I've ever seen.
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  19. #19
    Registered User grumble1's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Alexlexexx View Post
    if you mean 6 days hitting each body part once weekly then yes..


    but 6 days upper lower is best for naturals..

    as long as the volume is low.. around 20 sets per day..


    go read some lyle mcdonald stuff
    Post a link where Lyle says that 6x/week U/L split is the best routine for naturals.

    The guy's better at nutrition than exercise, but I do not think that he would say that.
    GOMAD!
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  20. #20
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    Originally Posted by grumble1 View Post
    Post a link where Lyle says that 6x/week U/L split is the best routine for naturals.

    The guy's better at nutrition than exercise, but I do not think that he would say that.
    It all becomes clear when you combine Lyle's articles on training frequency and the Hypertrophy Specific Training principles by Bryan Haycock..

    http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/mus...ass-gains.html

    http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/mus...-gains-qa.html

    http://www.hypertrophy-specific.com/hst_index.html


    Upper/Lower allows you to hit each muscle 3x a week, hitting them every 48 hours (read principle nr2 of HST)

    I use the medium/light/heavy system as well (read lyle's "categories of weight training" articles)
    http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/tra...ng-part-1.html


    you guys might think this is bad for a natural trainer, but the volume is low and natural trainers are the ones that benefit the most of a higher frequency (considering low volume)

    as you should know by now, we only spend about 2 days growing and half a week is spent in an semi-anticatabolic state (you would stay in an anabolic state with roids), so we need the high frequency, but cannot tolerate high volume with high frequency (with roids we could), so we keep the volume low..


    why are you guys not getting this...

    the whole each body part once a week is inferior
    it has been proven


    by the way lyle mentions his generally preferred split (in the second link):

    "If you don’t go with one of the above, that basically leaves with what would be my generally preferred choice which is a stock-standard upper/lower split routine training the full upper body one one day and the full lower body (with abs) on the second day."
    halareous
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    RN Class of 2014 PaC-mAn8's Avatar
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    Upper/Lower
    HIT Supplements Lead Representative
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    also lyle only focuses on natural trainees..
    halareous
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    what is a semi-anticatabolic state? wouldnt that be anabolic?
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    Originally Posted by Markyh View Post
    I can workout about 3-4 times a week and am looking to gain mass
    try the upper lower routine 4x a week

    upper
    lower
    rest
    upper
    lower
    rest
    rest

    or lower/upper, your choice
    try a rep range of 10-14 on monday/tuesday and 5-8 on thursday and friday

    increase the weight by 10% when you reach the upper limit of the rep range..
    halareous
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    lingering house guest ThisNameIsTaken's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Alexlexexx View Post
    try the upper lower routine 4x a week

    upper
    lower
    rest
    upper
    lower
    rest
    rest

    or lower/upper, your choice
    try a rep range of 10-14 on monday/tuesday and 5-8 on thursday and friday

    increase the weight by 10% when you reach the upper limit of the rep range..
    this is a very easy/solid/proven split...good for a begginer that doesnt necessarily want to do full body workouts...if it were me i would change the rep range just a tad, but that's just from how i know my body works...10 reps is a good starting point for this i think and can easily be adjusted and tweaked a little later...
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    also when i mention this 6 days week routine i dont say its appropriate for beginners..


    it wouldnt hurt.. but such a routine is not needed yet..

    3x full body/4x upper lower is sufficient..
    halareous
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  27. #27
    Registered User Alexlexexx's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by ThisNameIsTaken View Post
    this is a very easy/solid/proven split...good for a begginer that doesnt necessarily want to do full body workouts...if it were me i would change the rep range just a tad, but that's just from how i know my body works...10 reps is a good starting point for this i think and can easily be adjusted and tweaked a little later...
    yes i myself do this


    Mon Upper M (20 sets)
    Tue Lower M (20 sets)
    Wed Upper L (10 sets)
    Thu Lower L (10 sets)
    Fri Upper H (30 sets)
    Sat Lower H (30 sets)
    Sun Rest

    L: light (15-18 rep range)
    M: medium (10-14 rep range)
    H: heavy (5-8 rep range)

    add 10% when upper limits are reached

    volume is the same as 30x5 = 10x15

    average is 20 sets a day..


    if a body part is lacking, you can just double the amount of sets for them..

    for example on medium days I do 2 sets of bench press and 2 sets of wide grip reverse bench, if my upper chest would be behind, i would just add 2 more sets of reverse bench

    if my entire chest would lack, id do 4 sets of bench and 4 sets reverse bench


    i rest about 15 seconds between sets and 15-30 seconds between exercises
    i use fast concentric movement with controlled eccentric movements
    when form suffers I stop and use that number as my completed reps, so no going to failure..
    workouts last between 20-40 minutes depending on how busy it is at the gym and which day it is (heavy days last longer)


    any comments on how to improve this method?
    Last edited by Alexlexexx; 10-20-2010 at 04:50 PM.
    halareous
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    also i have found 2 substances that:
    increase the livers ability to produce IGF-1(initiates muscle hyperplasia)
    enhance systemic sensitivity to all growth factors
    and triggers new satellite cell production

    they also increase parasympathetic nervous system function which is vital for cell renewal and restoration



    so when I start taking them I should be gaining about 5 pounds a month (estimated by the person who suggested them)

    if i succeed my experiment I post results with pics here to let you guys know..
    halareous
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  29. #29
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    Originally Posted by Dawginit View Post
    Speaking as an old timer, here is what I think.

    If you are new or young full body three times a week is probably a good way to start. If you want to put on mass you will probably eventually want to move to a more intense routine working each body part once or twice a week.

    In order to put on mass, diet and exercise recovery is important. If you lift too often the body adapts with the muscle you have and muscle growth stalls.

    As you get older, it takes a little longer for the body to recover, so you have to have more rest/recovery time between body parts.

    I still do an old school push/pull/legs type routine

    Monday- chest and tricep
    Tuesday- Back and bicep
    Wednesday- legs
    Thursday- Shoulders/ abs
    Friday- bicep/tricep

    Saturday and Sunday- Off

    Stick with the basics for mass- Deadlift, pull-ups, bench and squats. After that do whatever exercises you enjoy or get value from.

    I very my exercises and rotate between strength programs for two months and hypertrophy (muscle growth) programs forthree to four months. It has worked well for me.

    I think most anything can be successful as long as you listen to your body, allow for recovery and adapt what you are doing to encourage new growth.
    Glad i came across this, gonna start trying to bulk up for the next 30 days and was looking for a good split (this split will be my first ever) I saw this and will be picking it up and trying it out. I have full body for 2 years? or so and i got good results, call me an idiot, i'm not the genius at it but how i see it (again, not a genius) is if you do a full body workout your body is going to distribute all the protein and cal's evenly and it'll take longer to notice any gains soon. But if you focus on a split 2 muscles a day, your body would distribute it more to those muscles that need it henceforth seeing better gains....so i'm gonna try this and see how it works.
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  30. #30
    Registered User Alexlexexx's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Ryan1992 View Post
    Glad i came across this, gonna start trying to bulk up for the next 30 days and was looking for a good split (this split will be my first ever) I saw this and will be picking it up and trying it out. I have full body for 2 years? or so and i got good results, call me an idiot, i'm not the genius at it but how i see it (again, not a genius) is if you do a full body workout your body is going to distribute all the protein and cal's evenly and it'll take longer to notice any gains soon. But if you focus on a split 2 muscles a day, your body would distribute it more to those muscles that need it henceforth seeing better gains....so i'm gonna try this and see how it works.
    you need a higher frequency than that..
    halareous
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