best routine for building mass?

[formerfatkid5]

i currently weight 180lbs but my goal is to get to 200lbs and stay fairly lean. i only have time to workout on mon, wed, and fridays. what would be the best routine, and what supplements should i take. currently im only taking whey.

[pumplikecuming]

madcows 5x5

http://www.wackyhq.com/madcow5x5/geo...Linear_5x5.htm

[formerfatkid5]

i think that would make way more sense if i wasnt dumb

[pumplikecuming]

i think that would make way more sense if i wasnt dumb

Whats so confusing brah?

oh and supplements are a waste of time. The best supplement is steak. And if you absolutely had to take some kind of supplement, creatine will make you stronger (but I don't recommend taking it for at least 6 months of training)

[ThisNameIsTaken]

supplements...i would just stick with a good diet, a good multi vit, and some protein...

as for the 5x5 routine...pretty straight forward bud...

there are also about a billion other routines you could choose from...i would highly suggest spending a little time in the article section looking at begginer routines...

as far as the "stay lean" part...it would be best to clearly define your goal...are you bulking or are you cutting? the two don't go hand in hand...since you want to build more muscle and put on some pounds you are in the "i am bulking" category and it would be best to structure training around that concept...

[shaneee]

why post a strength routine when he wants to gain mass?

[rdferguson]

i think that would make way more sense if i wasnt dumb

When I first looked at Bill Starr's programs, I was blown away by the maths, but it's actually pretty simple - sit down for 5min with a calculator at the start of each week and you'll be able to figure out what you need to do. Basically, for squats it's as simple as this:

Monday:
Set 1 = 5 x 50% topset
Set 2 = 5 x 62.5% topset
Set 3 = 5 x 75% topset
Set 4 = 5 x 87.5% topset
Set 5 = 5 x Friday's Triple

Wednesday:
Repeat Monday's first 3 sets exactly, then repeat the 3rd set one more time

Friday:
Repeat Monday's first 4 sets exactly, then perform a triple at 2.5% heavier weight than Monday's top set, then finally perform a set of 8 at the same weight as the 3rd set

Monday and Friday use the same maths for bench and rows. Wednesday uses incline or overhead press and deadlifts, 4x5 ramping to a top set, and increasing by 2.5% each week.

[armyguy.88]

[QUOTE=shaneee;563857431]why post a strength routine when he wants to gain mass?[/QUOTE

Because size comes with strength and diet.

Here's a good link I found. It's designed for an intermediate lifter and it explains everything pretty simply. Also it has a free spreadsheet at the bottom of the page that you input your 5RM and it tells you what weights to use for each exercise. I started this recently and love it so far. Make sure you click the spreadsheet that includes the clean and press. it's definitely a kicka$$ program. Also make sure your diet is in check to make sure you put on weight while doing this program.

http://nutribody.com/blog/post/Bill-...5-Workout.aspx

As for supplements, I currently take NOXplode for preworkout. I also take whey 30 minutes before and immediately after working out. Also I would recommend casein protein as soon as you wake up and right before bed. I also take ZMA which helps with recovery time and is a natural test booster. One more important thing is a good multi vitamin. The reason I take all of this is i'm deployed so its hard to get all the protein i would get back home. if you're able to get the protein you need i wouldn't take as much protein shakes as i am. NOXplode is decent, it gives some people the shakes due to caffeine in it. I take it for the NO2 in it (thinking about switching to strictly NO2). good luck man.



as for supps, I currently take NOXplode for a pre-workout and whey for a preworkout shake AND post workout. I also take casein right when i wake up and right before bed. I would recommend ZMA also, it's a natural test booster which will help with recovery and

[Slow-N-Steady]

If you are already fairly lean at your current weight, I would probably forgo a 5x5 routine as size is your main concern and you're likely at a level where a split of some sort would probably be of a great benefit.

If 3 days is all that you have, I would take a look at Tom Mutaffi's 3 day split. I much prefer a well layed out four or five day split, as it allows you to give each muscle group an equal amount of time, effort, etc. Not saying that a 3 day split can't, but obviously there is less time with a 3 day split and more bodyparts are grouped together because of this.

As for supplements, just cover the basics and you will be fine. Fish oil, multi, whey/casein, joint support, etc.

[pumplikecuming]

why post a strength routine when he wants to gain mass?

Not sure if srs...

[cody_m]

Olympic lifting (i.e. cleans, snatch, jerk, squat...) is great for building a strong core and puttin on big gains. When doing these lifts though it is very important that you maintain proper form, many lifts (like cleans for example) can be accomplished with ****ty form and make you feel good about yourself, but are largely ineffective in reaching your bodybuilding goals.

Olympic lifting is great but requires a lot of practice and determination, i thought i knew how to lift until a friend and I went and got a personal trainer the spring/summer before my senior year of highschool..he made me life with a piece of pvc pipe for the first week and a half because my form was so bad. he taught me all about "setting your back" and the importance of using proper breathing techniques. which are both very applicable in everyday lifting as well, and i feel a crucial step over looked by many.

At the end of the summer I had gained 20 SOLID lbs, and while i definitely attribute this to the workouts i was doing, being a wrestler, i know that a good portion of that weight gain came from a proper diet (which my trainer also helped with). While supplements are great and do have their place in your diet, if you really want lean gains of nearly 20 lbs your going to have to completely change your diet. Increasing the number of [HEALTHY] meals per day is a great way to do this, at my prime I was eating a solid 4 meals a day with a snack somewhere in between. the meals dont have to be huge but you need to be sure to give your body everything it needs in those meals...lots of protein, good carbs, and fruits and vegetables. My trainer wanted us eating something like 6 servings of fruit a day, which is a little ridicuouls and gets very expensive but i did eat as much of it as i could afford to.

My advice on supplements: protein shakes, multi-vitamin, amino acid complex(I wish I wouldve known back then what i know now about the importance of aminoacid supplementation) and maybe a preworkout if you really want one.

If you'd like more advice on a diet or Olympic lifting feel free to message me, i am by no means a professional but i did wrestle for 15 years and feel that i have a fairly good knowledge of how to give your body what it needs.

[shaneee]

Not sure if srs...

i am serious.
if his goal is mass why post a strength routine? i mean yeah it's a good idea to get a good strength base, but who says you can't be on a better mass building routine and just continually progress?
what i did even from day 1. now my lifts are pretty high and i got alot bigger

[presa1200]

i currently weight 180lbs but my goal is to get to 200lbs and stay fairly lean. i only have time to workout on mon, wed, and fridays. what would be the best routine, and what supplements should i take. currently im only taking whey.

wow your main pic actually looks way more better and slimmer than before, what did you do actually? cardio and running?

[pumplikecuming]

i am serious.
if his goal is mass why post a strength routine? i mean yeah it's a good idea to get a good strength base, but who says you can't be on a better mass building routine and just continually progress?
what i did even from day 1. now my lifts are pretty high and i got alot bigger

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H9VYx7ATR8s

http://bodyspace.bodybuilding.com/vunguyen12/









Show me 1 person...who stuck to madcows 5x5 (or any decent 5x5) for at least 6 months, ate right, and did NOT get big. You will fail. Gtfo...

[ThickAsABrick]

i am serious.
if his goal is mass why post a strength routine? i mean yeah it's a good idea to get a good strength base, but who says you can't be on a better mass building routine and just continually progress?
what i did even from day 1. now my lifts are pretty high and i got alot bigger

exactly

[Jippo]

There is clearly a crossover between strength and size but in the context of wanting to build an aesthetically pleasing physique then none of these hyped up strength routines are useful for these goals. Why is it that everyone that cums their pants over these 5x5 and starting strength programs are never bodybuilders and never have decent physiques?

[ThickAsABrick]

There is clearly a crossover between strength and size but in the context of wanting to build an aesthetically pleasing physique then none of these hyped up strength routines are useful for these goals. Why is it that everyone that cums their pants over these 5x5 and starting strength programs are never bodybuilders and never have decent physiques?

I am in receipt of your lulz

[SquatAlDay]

Well your schedule is perfect for mass building.(having a 24 hour period of rest between workouts) For mass I would use periodization system where you focus mostly on the compound lifts and a heavy diet on carbs while your rep range on your lifts changes every week from 12 reps to 10 to 8 to 6 to 4-5.

Diet Tips: Take at least 40 grams of protein every morning when your feet hit the ground (whey protein) and if you need some extra calories during the day go heavy on dressings, mayo, and sugary fruit juices...or you can get a weight gainer such as cytogainer (3g of creatine monohydrate on that for extra mass)

[Orlando1234977]

why post a strength routine when he wants to gain mass?

Reps

Not sure if srs...

Would neg again

exactly

Would rep again

There is clearly a crossover between strength and size but in the context of wanting to build an aesthetically pleasing physique then none of these hyped up strength routines are useful for these goals. Why is it that everyone that cums their pants over these 5x5 and starting strength programs are never bodybuilders and never have decent physiques?

Reps

[pumplikecuming]

Yall can sit there and argue what routine is NOT good for mass, but completely ignore the OP's question, and not post up a good mass routine. Yall are a bunch of bickering trolls. Instead of arguing that its not a good routine for building mass (which it is) why don't yall post one and stop instigating.

[Farley1324]

exactly

So what do you recommend???

Reps



Would neg again



Would rep again



Reps

So what do you recommend?

[abdii]

Yall can sit there and argue what routine is NOT good for mass, but completely ignore the OP's question, and not post up a good mass routine. Yall are a bunch of bickering trolls. Instead of arguing that its not a good routine for building mass (which it is) why don't yall post one and stop instigating.

^
This is true.

[Orlando1234977]

what would be the best routine, and what supplements should i take. currently im only taking whey.

but completely ignore the OP's question

So what do you recommend???

I'm not about to post the best routine for mass because it doesn't exist.
Strength based routines included


But Thick posted this earlier, which ought to be a start..
http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showpo...11&postcount=2

[pumplikecuming]

I'm not about to post the best routine for mass because it doesn't exist.
Strength based routines included


But Thick posted this earlier, which ought to be a start..
http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showpo...11&postcount=2

How vague. Basically he said, stick to a basic template, make your own sh*t up....hope it works, if it doesn't...your bad.

[Farley1324]

I'm not about to post the best routine for mass because it doesn't exist.
Strength based routines included


But Thick posted this earlier, which ought to be a start..
http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showpo...11&postcount=2

How wonderfully helpfull.

What basic template?

It says to when in doubt, ask. OP is asking. So, what do you recommend?

[Destructodave]

i am serious.
if his goal is mass why post a strength routine? i mean yeah it's a good idea to get a good strength base, but who says you can't be on a better mass building routine and just continually progress?
what i did even from day 1. now my lifts are pretty high and i got alot bigger

Thats what people do here. All day. It doesnt matter what goals you come rollin in with to a thread, your gonna be told your a noob, and to get on a 5x5 program to work that strength base. Its like a damn 5x5 religious cult here, on a bodybuilding site. Always has been. Even before 5x5, people preached nothin but 4-6 reps and **** all day. If you had more then 8 or 9 sets on chest, or iso's at all, you were a noob using too much volume. Srs.

There is clearly a crossover between strength and size but in the context of wanting to build an aesthetically pleasing physique then none of these hyped up strength routines are useful for these goals. Why is it that everyone that cums their pants over these 5x5 and starting strength programs are never bodybuilders and never have decent physiques?

Honestly I have no clue. Really dont.

[ThisNameIsTaken]

wow...this has spun out of control into the realm of barely helpfull for the original poster...

as for the 5x5 debate going on...i think im a little lost...the 5x5 was suggested as a good starting point to aid in building mass...it does exactly that...i think most people would agree that starting out by developing a good base of strength with compound lifting is what opens the door for other routines...just from my personal point of view, i think most of the "strength" gained when you first start out is going to happen on just about any routine due to the fact your brain and body are working together to create pathways in which to perform the movements that are the basis of any mass building routine...doesnt madcow's 5x5 do a very goog job of that at the same time offering gains in mass as well?

the way this is going we are going to debate this poor guy right past the beggining and start him on an 8x8 right off the bat...then in a month we are going to have to answer his thread about overtraining or his latest injury...

[Destructodave]

wow...this has spun out of control into the realm of barely helpfull for the original poster...

as for the 5x5 debate going on...i think im a little lost...the 5x5 was suggested as a good starting point to aid in building mass...it does exactly that...i think most people would agree that starting out by developing a good base of strength with compound lifting is what opens the door for other routines...just from my personal point of view, i think most of the "strength" gained when you first start out is going to happen on just about any routine due to the fact your brain and body are working together to create pathways in which to perform the movements that are the basis of any mass building routine...doesnt madcow's 5x5 do a very goog job of that at the same time offering gains in mass as well?

the way this is going we are going to debate this poor guy right past the beggining and start him on an 8x8 right off the bat...then in a month we are going to have to answer his thread about overtraining or his latest injury...

I was gonna post something, but this works, maybe you missed it:

There is clearly a crossover between strength and size but in the context of wanting to build an aesthetically pleasing physique then none of these hyped up strength routines are useful for these goals. Why is it that everyone that cums their pants over these 5x5 and starting strength programs are never bodybuilders and never have decent physiques?

Oh and becoming overtrained isnt that easy. Takes alot more then some normal medium volume workout to do that. Hell there is a crap ton of people at the gym that would be vastly overtraining by this forum's standards that look better then alot of the people posting here about over training, and they seem perfectly fine to me.

Honestly, I think we all should find out exactly what the OP's goals and desires are first before ppl just throw a workout at them. That way these types of arguements(hopefully) dont crop up as often. There will still be 5x5 lovers and haters throwing their 2 cents in, but at least itll get somewhere.

[Orlando1234977]

How vague. Basically he said, stick to a basic template, make your own sh*t up....hope it works, if it doesn't...your bad.

No, that's not how trial and error works.

instead try:
if it doesn't..you learned from your experience and by thinking for yourself you're able to build on it. Further, to answer the OP's question, the best routine is built through prior experiences learned, and taylored to the trainee.

How wonderfully helpfull.

What basic template?

It says to when in doubt, ask. OP is asking. So, what do you recommend?

Any beginner bodybuilding template should do.

the way this is going we are going to debate this poor guy right past the beggining

This was already done in the first reply, when an intermediate strength program was recommended.

[Jippo]

People have to be spoon fed everything these days, what do you think old time strongmen and bodybuilders did? They figured out the most useful exercises for themselves and structured their routine around getting progressively stronger at them. Now i personally prefer fullbody training to split training but that's because i've tried both and found what works for me, as long as the exercise selection is decent and you're using a decent amount of volume then you should be golden, as far as what a beginner should do i'd recommend 3-4 fullbody sessions per week or if you prefer splits then a 3-4 days split, initially i would focus around these exercises:

Back/Front Squats
Deadlifts/SLDL
Bench Press
Overhead Press
Rows
Pullups
Dips

Focus your training around getting stronger at these type of exercises and add a few isolation exercises to work smaller muscles, so add in a little arm work and shoulder/trap work if you like. Find out what rep schemes work best for you, i usually do 3-5 reps on the bigger exercises and more reps on stuff like arms and pullups etc. It's all about experimentation, you can't expect to be told exactly what to do for the best results without trying different things.