First time BULKERS apply here ;)

[dreahere]

Not just a 10 pound scale difference. In between the two picts I lost a good 10-15 pounds of fat and gained some mass. Here's the picts pre bulk (June 2010) as well as a repeat of the March 2011 pict. There is a 13 pound difference between these photos. This is why scale weight is so deceptive! Body composition can radically change!





If you compare the June 10 pict with the Feb 2008 pict, my scale weight was the same! But I got out of that awful skinny-fat state.

And these last comparison photos show a 13 pound bulk. No where near as bad as you might think!

FBM, how many bulking cycles have you done? I tried to look back in this thread and you were doing your 3rd one at the beginning of it. Was three the total? Do you remember about how long you bulked each time? (Just trying to figure out when I might have some hope for my own legs )

Question: Do you guys drink alcohol when bulking? Not to the point where it affects your lifts the next day, but more like 1-2 drinks? For the past 5 days Ive been having about 1 or 2 drinks everyday...mostly because I go to a lot of social events. I factor it into my calories and it also helps to increase my appetite/decrease fullness. Thoughts?

I drink alcohol when I'm bulking and when I'm dieting. Dieting, it's maybe a glass of wine 3 or 4 days out of seven. Bulking, it's more like a glass of wine 6 days out of 7.

Without lean mass the butt sags, the top area of the back of the thighs doesn't take up enough space, and the whole area looks like we have 10+ extra pounds.

Oh, hai.

Seriously, though, I think my butt is about an inch and a half higher since I've bulked.

[freebirdmac]

FBM, how many bulking cycles have you done? I tried to look back in this thread and you were doing your 3rd one at the beginning of it. Was three the total? Do you remember about how long you bulked each time? (Just trying to figure out when I might have some hope for my own legs )



I drink alcohol when I'm bulking and when I'm dieting. Dieting, it's maybe a glass of wine 3 or 4 days out of seven. Bulking, it's more like a glass of wine 6 days out of 7.



Oh, hai.

Seriously, though, I think my butt is about an inch and a half higher since I've bulked.

My first bulk lasted about 5 months. I was coming out of that under eating stage and was hell bent on leaning out Yeah I was just like a lot of women here and didn't listen. My 2nd bulk only lasted a few months due to injuries. It was a bust! My last and 3rd bulk was awesome! I really got the cals up and made very good progress over 7 months. Everything I had done up to that last bulk was recomping, and it works, but it is agonizingly slow! It's far better for fat loss than muscle gains.

I so wanted to do another bulk this fall/winter. But I couldn't go through being wiped out every weekend recovering from foods that should have been safe but weren't. I don't have a household staff to do my shyte

Lol on the butt! Getting old proves gravity works! I've raised mine as well. I still need another inch or so. Thinner skin that sags and loss of collagen makes it even more important to increase lean mass. If I were 25 I'd probably be sitting pretty right now. Alas, I'm not.

[dreahere]

My first bulk lasted about 5 months. I was coming out of that under eating stage and was hell bent on leaning out Yeah I was just like a lot of women here and didn't listen. My 2nd bulk only lasted a few months due to injuries. It was a bust! My last and 3rd bulk was awesome! I really got the cals up and made very good progress over 7 months. Everything I had done up to that last bulk was recomping, and it works, but it is agonizingly slow! It's far better for fat loss than muscle gains.

Wow! That makes your progress even more impressive, that you gained so much muscle in really only a little bit more than a year of total actual bulking time. That is so awesome.

I'm trying to decide how aggressive to be in Bulk, The Sequel. The first bulk I really only gained about a pound a month until the very end, so I know I could have pushed myself to gain quicker. So, on the one hand, I could probably have put on more muscle. On the other hand, I was happy not to get too fat for my clothes and to hardly ever feel fat through most all of the bulk, and I was very very pleased with my strength gains. I'm committed to doing this for the next eleven months, so I guess I can afford to go pretty damn slow again.

I so wanted to do another bulk this fall/winter. But I couldn't go through being wiped out every weekend recovering from foods that should have been safe but weren't. I don't have a household staff to do my shyte

I know, it always seems to be the maid's day off, doesn't it?

Lol on the butt! Getting old proves gravity works! I've raised mine as well. I still need another inch or so. Thinner skin that sags and loss of collagen makes it even more important to increase lean mass. If I were 25 I'd probably be sitting pretty right now. Alas, I'm not.

I threw a fit the other day about my fat collapsing in on itself as I'm losing it. I'm sure the young girls had no idea what I was talking about.

[-H-]

I ran it the entire time I was bulking. That was enough!! IMO, it is a program you can't stay on long term. It's a lot of volume and those freaking power days! Iyiyi!

I am very pear shaped as well with big hips and a higher body fat about my thighs and buttocks, then I have this narrow upper torso with virtually no fat on it, skinny arms, and underdeveloped shoulders. Lifting in general has helped this tremendously and the mass gains from the bulk definitely help me look a bit more proportional.

Nice! I am excited to try it starting Monday!! You have made great progress. Sounds like maybe you started similar to my shape. Can't wait to see what bulking does for me.

The first pict is after 3 months of my first bulk. Although I too was skinny, my legs had virtually no muscle. They were almost all fat. The second picture was after my last bulk. Before any leaning out. If my food allergies hadn't held my eating back I know I could have done better. Starting at 48 on the edge of menopause didn't help either

There's a 10 pound scale gain between the picts but I also lost a good ten pounds of fat between the picts. Wish I had dexascan numbers.

WOW!!! So inspiring thanks for sharing!! My legs have more fat and less muscle than where you started!! But I see so much change in your lean mass. AWESOME! Definitely confirms my desire to bulk. I am so excited to see what happens. This might Finally give me the changes/body I have always wanted. Almost sounds too good to be true-lol. Had to stop and deload this week but will be hitting it hard starting PHAT Monday.

Gonna do 2300 cals lifting days and 2000 the other days, btu now I am thinking my maintenance might be 2000ish- so should I go higher than that on rest days or is that ok?
Thanks!!

[freebirdmac]

Wow! That makes your progress even more impressive, that you gained so much muscle in really only a little bit more than a year of total actual bulking time. That is so awesome.

I'm trying to decide how aggressive to be in Bulk, The Sequel. The first bulk I really only gained about a pound a month until the very end, so I know I could have pushed myself to gain quicker. So, on the one hand, I could probably have put on more muscle. On the other hand, I was happy not to get too fat for my clothes and to hardly ever feel fat through most all of the bulk, and I was very very pleased with my strength gains. I'm committed to doing this for the next eleven months, so I guess I can afford to go pretty damn slow again.



I know, it always seems to be the maid's day off, doesn't it?



I threw a fit the other day about my fat collapsing in on itself as I'm losing it. I'm sure the young girls had no idea what I was talking about.

For the sequel you should up your game. Calories and routine (volume). You've been here before, know it's not o scary, so go full balls to the wall!

Yeah, the younger ones won't understand until 45 or so. But! If they stay loaded up with muscle mass it won't be so hard for them to make corrections. And if they let things slide, hopefully they'll remember the conversation and know how to fix themselves.

[gobbles23]

AHHHH! All this talk about bulking and training hard...Must get over this damn cold! 10 days of tooth extraction gone wrong and then a head cold! I'm dying here! I've been watching training videos all day! I wanna go balls to the wall Hahaha! Grumble grumble....

[freebirdmac]

Nice! I am excited to try it starting Monday!! You have made great progress. Sounds like maybe you started similar to my shape. Can't wait to see what bulking does for me.



WOW!!! So inspiring thanks for sharing!! My legs have more fat and less muscle than where you started!! But I see so much change in your lean mass. AWESOME! Definitely confirms my desire to bulk. I am so excited to see what happens. This might Finally give me the changes/body I have always wanted. Almost sounds too good to be true-lol. Had to stop and deload this week but will be hitting it hard starting PHAT Monday.

Gonna do 2300 cals lifting days and 2000 the other days, btu now I am thinking my maintenance might be 2000ish- so should I go higher than that on rest days or is that ok?
Thanks!!

Wing it. You may find that you need more food on rest days. Just go with the flow.

[agambow]

Gonna do 2300 cals lifting days and 2000 the other days, btu now I am thinking my maintenance might be 2000ish- so should I go higher than that on rest days or is that ok?
Thanks!!

I agree with freebirdmac. I originally wanted to eat at maintenance on my rest days, but I soon found out that I needed more. I was soooo hungry on rest days that eating at maintenance wasn't going to work! You grow during rest days so the extra food might be needed. See how your body responds.

[-H-]

I agree with freebirdmac. I originally wanted to eat at maintenance on my rest days, but I soon found out that I needed more. I was soooo hungry on rest days that eating at maintenance wasn't going to work! You grow during rest days so the extra food might be needed. See how your body responds.

Wing it. You may find that you need more food on rest days. Just go with the flow.

Alright, thanks! Will be interesting to see how it goes.

[andrerox80]

ms mac and lori (and anyone else) - suggestions for my quad power exercise? i won't do front squats yet (that's how i first fractured. when ready, i'll use the max rack and really light weights, so it wouldn't be power anyway) and have been doing lumberjack squats, but i don't feel ready enough to put enough weight on that kind of exercise to be in that low rep range. should i do it anyway but just w/ a few more reps? totally my favorite squat. and should be safe.

i know i've made changes, but i am really digging this routine.

4 monthssssssssss!
keep going... or CUT. ?

keep going! your body can definitely take more. your upper body is so lean. you're making great gains and there's def no reason to stop now. not a whole lot to cut. so keep building muscle. woot.

I know it's conventional to do back/bi and chest/tri, but do the opposite! Back or shoulders and tri and chest/bi. You'll be surprised

ms mac, i know you've done it the way freebird is saying, so it's personal preference then (and your plan looks good), but i had never broken it up this way and had done it the conventional way - till power, muscle, burn - and i am loving it so much. not sure i'd ever want to go back. i feel like my workouts are more effective, but this could also just be the change/it's new for me.

Thanks, definitely upping the calories. Im careful about my alcohol intake, the only thing that concerns me is if I overestimate the calories in a drink and cut back too much on food. I thought thats why I might have lost. I think I need to plan better on days where I go out at night.

since you desperately need to gain, and you're only adding 150, is there any way you could just have the alcohol as "extra"? you can log it in after but not count for it before? esp since you lost and also maybe that would also be incentive to only have 1-2 drinks. drink water or diet soda in b/w drinks. and i agree w/ freebird abt not drinking every night for totally unrelated reasons, but i'm sure you know that.

[toodlepip]

As you probably know, I get how you're were feeling. Mental health breaks are good! I had many days during the bulk that I hated how I looked. If it weren't for this thread, I wouldn't have lasted.

I will say that I don't think your weight is unreasonable. I am 1 inch taller than you and weigh 132-134 now. There was a day when that weight would have been totally off the chain unacceptable. I just want to encourage you to not let a number screw with your mind. Maybe you can post pics and/or take some just for you and then reevaluate. That was my turning point. I posted pics when I felt awful and all the woman here were encouraging.

I do understand though that it gets to a point where it's useless to go on, on an emotional level that is. That's why I quit. Also, I had had enough of PHAT. It wears you down!

Enjoy your ski trip .

Thanks. Being back in the gym today felt good. I can definitely see some of the extra weight, it's obvious, but at the same time I'm still not seeing the mass I want so I'm going to continue bulking and just try to make the gains a bit leaner. Try - being the operative word. I had hoped to go until the end of March but right now I'm aiming for end of Feb. Then I'll see where I'm at...

I'm too pudgy to put up pictures here. But yeah, I should take some just for me...

I think I've been thrown for a loop with this bulking thing...thought I would gain slow - and didn't...thought I was prepared for the water retention & fat gain - and I wasn't. Hopefully next time around I'll be a bit more prepared...



FBM: I have seen your pics before and every time they amaze me...such a fantastic example of bulking and looking so much better for it at the end.

i'm considering increasing cals, even though i gained and increased already this week. i know the facts and think i'm just being too impatient and will have a much higher fat:muscle ratio. i just feel like i'm on this new prgm, am hauling ass in the gym, and don't want these workouts to be for nothing. i can wait till tues, my usual day. i am just so ready for gains. i hate being so impatient. am sure tons can relate. no matter what your goal, you want results yesterday. i am having fun this time (not so much last time), so that's good. enjoying the journey. i just worry that all my blood, sweat and tears left in the weight room won't come of anything. i don't even know what my maintenance and surplus are b/c the calculations and my gowear (stopped wearing it a while ago) give me way lower number. think it's surgery and colon related. it's trial and error anyway but i feel like i'm going in blind w/o having a real idea of what my surplus is. i'm just confused. i am giving my all and want to be sure it pays off and not worry abt not gaining or even losing, even though gaining isn't linear anyway. babbling. that's where my head is at.

do you have a rate at which you want to gain or are you just happy to take what you can get?

how long after you started the creatine did your weigh yourself? i am just wondering if you have any idea abt how much gain was from that. have you noticed any positive effects from it (in the gym)? if not, dump it. you'd lose that weight and that alone could help you mentally. i am sorry you're struggling, but you know how common this is. doesn't make it any easier, and you have to make the choice that's right for you, but at least know that others can relate and have been there. re your cals, have you looked at the metabolism repair thread at all? does any of that apply

i totally had that. even when not eating that much.

I started creatine, bulking and Christmas excess eating all at the same time. I wasn't weighing or measuring anything at the time. I think it's helping in the gym and am hesitant to quit it...though I didn't take any for the past week I took off. Went back on again today. Had insane stomach bloating and pains this afternoon but am not sure it's related.

I'm hoping when I do decide to cut I'll drop a quick 3 or 4 pounds...

[freebirdmac]

ms mac and lori (and anyone else) - suggestions for my quad power exercise? i won't do front squats yet (that's how i first fractured. when ready, i'll use the max rack and really light weights, so it wouldn't be power anyway) and have been doing lumberjack squats, but i don't feel ready enough to put enough weight on that kind of exercise to be in that low rep range. should i do it anyway but just w/ a few more reps? totally my favorite squat. and should be safe.

You can easily use leg press for power until you're able to do heavy squats.

[toodlepip]

Thanks, definitely upping the calories. Im careful about my alcohol intake, the only thing that concerns me is if I overestimate the calories in a drink and cut back too much on food. I thought thats why I might have lost. I think I need to plan better on days where I go out at night.

I think you need to up your cals by more than 150. If you lost this week, chances are you're only going to be touching maintenance levels with a 150 increase and not into the bulking arena at all...

Don't stress over calories in booze...you can afford to not even count these..

[-H-]

FBM- Looking at your pics again, amazing! I notice in the before pic your thighs are really thin right above the knee- mine are, too. I am noticing changes a little on the outside, but is there anything specific to target the inner side of the quads right above the knee? Still non existent. I suppose if I keep at it, starting the bulk again Mon and PHAT it will jus thappen slowly? I hope! Your legs look so great in the second pic. Thanks.

[freebirdmac]

FBM- Looking at your pics again, amazing! I notice in the before pic your thighs are really thin right above the knee- mine are, too. I am noticing changes a little on the outside, but is there anything specific to target the inner side of the quads right above the knee? Still non existent. I suppose if I keep at it, starting the bulk again Mon and PHAT it will jus thappen slowly? I hope! Your legs look so great in the second pic. Thanks.

Just keeping at it. Doing leg extensions with toes in, out, and straight changes which part of the quad gets emphasis. But the whole muscle area will grow with the standard lifting exercises.

[-H-]

Just keeping at it. Doing leg extensions with toes in, out, and straight changes which part of the quad gets emphasis. But the whole muscle area will grow with the standard lifting exercises.

Great, thanks .

[skirtinthedirt]

So, after a full year of focusing on fat loss (eating at a deficit, lots and lots of cardio, weight training but without a lot of focus) and dropping from 193# (size 18) to 128# and (size 4) it's time to get serious about lifting (it was probably time before, but with all the work I put in this year there's NO WAY I'm going to criticize myself or efforts). Over the past couple of weeks I have started lifting heavy and have decreased my reps from 10 to 6 and my sets from 6 to 3-4. I've made decent strength gains but am not seeing what I want to see.

Then after hours of extensive research I determined that despite still having some stubborn tummy and thigh fat it was time to stop eating at a deficit and go up to at least maintenance. So over the past couple of days I have started eating more.

I feel GREAT when I wake up, through my workout, post-workout, etc.....but by the end of the day I am bloated and exhausted and feel awful until I go to sleep. I had just begun to see definition in my stomach when I increased my calorie intake and almost over night my teeny little cut lines disappeared : (

In short, with all of this food I feel almost as crappy as when I was overeating and not going to the gym at all, ever.

PLEASE tell me this will go away as the lifting progresses and I get used to this. Maybe it's just remembering what it's like to feel full but man, it seems like 2200 calories is a lot! How did I manage that and then some every day before last year????

I know a lot of comments/advice you guys give are based on pics but I just ate like a horse at dinner and drank a giant protein shake and tonight is NOT the night to be posting images of me in my underpants.

Secretly I'm hoping someone will look at my pics when I get them up and tell me I'm still too fat to be bulking and send me back to the treadmill with my reduced diet and SHAPE magazine telling me i can get the perfect body in just 15 minutes a day (lies!).....it seems so much SAFER that way.....

[freebirdmac]

So, after a full year of focusing on fat loss (eating at a deficit, lots and lots of cardio, weight training but without a lot of focus) and dropping from 193# (size 18) to 128# and (size 4) it's time to get serious about lifting (it was probably time before, but with all the work I put in this year there's NO WAY I'm going to criticize myself or efforts). Over the past couple of weeks I have started lifting heavy and have decreased my reps from 10 to 6 and my sets from 6 to 3-4. I've made decent strength gains but am not seeing what I want to see.

Then after hours of extensive research I determined that despite still having some stubborn tummy and thigh fat it was time to stop eating at a deficit and go up to at least maintenance. So over the past couple of days I have started eating more.

I feel GREAT when I wake up, through my workout, post-workout, etc.....but by the end of the day I am bloated and exhausted and feel awful until I go to sleep. I had just begun to see definition in my stomach when I increased my calorie intake and almost over night my teeny little cut lines disappeared : (

In short, with all of this food I feel almost as crappy as when I was overeating and not going to the gym at all, ever.

PLEASE tell me this will go away as the lifting progresses and I get used to this. Maybe it's just remembering what it's like to feel full but man, it seems like 2200 calories is a lot! How did I manage that and then some every day before last year????

I know a lot of comments/advice you guys give are based on pics but I just ate like a horse at dinner and drank a giant protein shake and tonight is NOT the night to be posting images of me in my underpants.

Secretly I'm hoping someone will look at my pics when I get them up and tell me I'm still too fat to be bulking and send me back to the treadmill with my reduced diet and SHAPE magazine telling me i can get the perfect body in just 15 minutes a day (lies!).....it seems so much SAFER that way.....

First, congrats on you major fat loss! That is a huge accomplishment! And you're correct, there's no need for would have, should have's. All of us have those.

Second, with a good 4x week lifting program your maintenance is probably around 2100. Since you have been dieting for awhile it may take a few weeks for your metabolism to get riled back up and for your body to adjust to more cals and more carbs. Bloating usually subsides in a few weeks. The other thing that may be possibly happening is you've inadvertently uncovered some food sensitivities. Now that you're eating more you could be exposing yourself to something in larger quantities or something you weren't consuming before. Gluten, dairy (including whey), and soy are typical issues.

Lastly, no matter what you choose to do stop the cardio madness and lift instead. Cardio is not needed at all for fat loss. You can accomplish that just fine with diet and lifting and get the benefits of muscle gains.

Obviously we cannot give more direction without picts. Maybe in the am you can take a few.

[nicholina]

I think you need to up your cals by more than 150. If you lost this week, chances are you're only going to be touching maintenance levels with a 150 increase and not into the bulking arena at all...

stress over calories in booze...you can afford to not even count these..

since you desperately need to gain, and you're only adding 150, is there any way you could just have the alcohol as "extra"? you can log it in after but not count for it before? esp since you lost and also maybe that would also be incentive to only have 1-2 drinks. drink water or diet soda in b/w drinks. and i agree w/ freebird abt not drinking every night for totally unrelated reasons, but i'm sure you know that.

I really would love to not count alcohol cals only because it requires planning ahead and adjusting my day, and I would like to be more spontaneous about it. Its been something Ive been contemplating for awhile. But, its also been an easy way for me to get my calories in. And its hard not to count, since, they are legit calories. A glass of wine with dinner adds an easy 120 cals. And, yes, I really do stick to 1-2 drinks, especially if thats all I've allotted for. And I don't drink EVERYDAY. Maybe 4 nights out of the week? Sometimes less.

Ok, I will add 200 cals which puts me at about 1900-2000 per day.

thanks for the input. I was really discouraged today.

[ms_mac]

I know it's conventional to do back/bi and chest/tri, but do the opposite! Back or shoulders and tri and chest/bi. You'll be surprised

I have done that before.....do you prefer one over the other? Or just the fact that you are "sort of" working opposites and strength might be better?

I like it! I think it's a really cool idea to do Max-OT on a cut- short and heavy. I might steal it and follow in your footsteps in the next few months!!!

I am honored! LOL......Steal away


Yay! Thanks- makes me feel better about gaining/bulking I'm so excited to bulk and then diet down again later...And I'm dying to see your post bulk/after diet pics once you end your diet!! I can't believe you bulked for 15 months- that's so awesome!

I am taking "end bulk" pics next Fri and will post. I need to post for the OBF so I may as well post here too.

[QUOTE=andrerox80;822211641]ms mac and lori (and anyone else) - suggestions for my quad power exercise? i won't do front squats yet (that's how i first fractured. when ready, i'll use the max rack and really light weights, so it wouldn't be power anyway) and have been doing lumberjack squats, but i don't feel ready enough to put enough weight on that kind of exercise to be in that low rep range. should i do it anyway but just w/ a few more reps? totally my favorite squat. and should be safe.

i know i've made changes, but i am really digging this routine.



I would say leg presses are the next best thing to squats. Are you able to do those? Glad you're liking PMB. I really liked it too, but after a couple of weeks I eliminated the burn sets in favor of more power sets. 20-40 reps and I just loosing concentration.



ms mac, i know you've done it the way freebird is saying, so it's personal preference then (and your plan looks good), but i had never broken it up this way and had done it the conventional way - till power, muscle, burn - and i am loving it so much. not sure i'd ever want to go back. i feel like my workouts are more effective, but this could also just be the change/it's new for me.

I think I'll change it around and do what FBM is suggesting. Will probably change up the split after 4 weeks anyway, so why not?

[stackums]

What are you other ladies doing for total calories, total protein intake on your bulk?

On my first bulk I wasnt as successful. I gained a little mass, but I just didnt bulk long enough (got scared lol) and I dont think I had calories, espec protein as high as it could have been. With this current bulk Im making sure to hit my calories EVERY day, especially protein. Im gaining 1/2 lb per week at 22-2,300 cal per day. I eat a min of 125g of complete proteins (meat, eggs, cottage cheese, protein shake (1 per day) ) and a few more grams in incomplete proteins (oatmeal, breads..etc). I think this has made a big dif in this bulk phase, as well as just trying to "man up" lol and lift as heavy as possible.

Its really encouraging reading all your posts. I think this thread is helpful to many in their bulk phase mind battles...lol.

Ive been doing a lot of assistance work on upper body since starting this bulk. Its made a huge difference. Ive gone from 0 unassisted pull ups to 6 and now adding extra weight to them . But now, thinking about the larger muscle groups, I think I may switch my focus to legs/glutes for the remainder of my bulk phase and dedicate some weak point training to them (while I have these bulk phase surplus calories to help).

[freebirdmac]

I have done that before.....do you prefer one over the other? Or just the fact that you are "sort of" working opposites and strength might be better?

Once I switched, I won't go back. While it's fine to essentially pre-fatigue the muscles before working them directly, I get so much more out of my bi/tri workouts by not doing this.

[gobbles23]

Once I switched, I won't go back. While it's fine to essentially pre-fatigue the muscles before working them directly, I get so much more out of my bi/tri workouts by not doing this.

You don't find your triceps/biceps are too tired/sore for chest/back the day or two after?? I usually find the day after biceps they're sore for days and days...And then pulling with them for back sounds painful!

EDIT- come to think of it- that's what PMB calls for though- chest and biceps/ shoulders triceps/legs/ back, calves abs....chest and triceps are just spaced 3 days apart, and back is 4-5 days after...huh, can't wait to get started on this!

[freebirdmac]

You don't find your triceps/biceps are too tired/sore for chest/back the day or two after?? I usually find the day after biceps they're sore for days and days...And then pulling with them for back sounds painful!

EDIT- come to think of it- that's what PMB calls for though- chest and biceps/ shoulders triceps/legs/ back, calves abs....chest and triceps are just spaced 3 days apart, and back is 4-5 days after...huh, can't wait to get started on this!

I do chest/bi on Mon, shoulders/tri on Thursday, and back on Friday. So there's plenty of recovery time.

[-H-]

Hi, bulkers!
Deload over tomorrow! gonna raise the cals- still weighing daily. What is good to shoot for gain wise? Want to not gain too fast/too much fat but not spin wheels, either. Wondering what I want to see- how many lbs a month etc. Thanks.

[toodlepip]

So, after a full year of focusing on fat loss (eating at a deficit, lots and lots of cardio, weight training but without a lot of focus) and dropping from 193# (size 18) to 128# and (size 4) it's time to get serious about lifting (it was probably time before, but with all the work I put in this year there's NO WAY I'm going to criticize myself or efforts). Over the past couple of weeks I have started lifting heavy and have decreased my reps from 10 to 6 and my sets from 6 to 3-4. I've made decent strength gains but am not seeing what I want to see.

Then after hours of extensive research I determined that despite still having some stubborn tummy and thigh fat it was time to stop eating at a deficit and go up to at least maintenance. So over the past couple of days I have started eating more.

I feel GREAT when I wake up, through my workout, post-workout, etc.....but by the end of the day I am bloated and exhausted and feel awful until I go to sleep. I had just begun to see definition in my stomach when I increased my calorie intake and almost over night my teeny little cut lines disappeared : (

In short, with all of this food I feel almost as crappy as when I was overeating and not going to the gym at all, ever.

PLEASE tell me this will go away as the lifting progresses and I get used to this. Maybe it's just remembering what it's like to feel full but man, it seems like 2200 calories is a lot! How did I manage that and then some every day before last year????

I know a lot of comments/advice you guys give are based on pics but I just ate like a horse at dinner and drank a giant protein shake and tonight is NOT the night to be posting images of me in my underpants.

Secretly I'm hoping someone will look at my pics when I get them up and tell me I'm still too fat to be bulking and send me back to the treadmill with my reduced diet and SHAPE magazine telling me i can get the perfect body in just 15 minutes a day (lies!).....it seems so much SAFER that way.....

You have done an outstanding job - well done.

2200 is your maintenance? What were you eating before? Bumping up cals can often result in initial bloating/water retention...it'll mess with you head a it but you just have to ride it out.

[toodlepip]

What are you other ladies doing for total calories, total protein intake on your bulk?

On my first bulk I wasnt as successful. I gained a little mass, but I just didnt bulk long enough (got scared lol) and I dont think I had calories, espec protein as high as it could have been. With this current bulk Im making sure to hit my calories EVERY day, especially protein. Im gaining 1/2 lb per week at 22-2,300 cal per day. I eat a min of 125g of complete proteins (meat, eggs, cottage cheese, protein shake (1 per day) ) and a few more grams in incomplete proteins (oatmeal, breads..etc). I think this has made a big dif in this bulk phase, as well as just trying to "man up" lol and lift as heavy as possible.

Its really encouraging reading all your posts. I think this thread is helpful to many in their bulk phase mind battles...lol.

Ive been doing a lot of assistance work on upper body since starting this bulk. Its made a huge difference. Ive gone from 0 unassisted pull ups to 6 and now adding extra weight to them . But now, thinking about the larger muscle groups, I think I may switch my focus to legs/glutes for the remainder of my bulk phase and dedicate some weak point training to them (while I have these bulk phase surplus calories to help).

My cals are under 2000...probably will be around 1800ish for the next few weeks. My protein is similar to yours...I'm trying to get it a bit higher.

Oh those mind battles are the worst part...my weight is up nearly 2lbs again overnight...gah...logically I know this is sodium and whatever else the hell is going on with my stomach these day....

Upper is where I want to see the most change because I spend my summer in tank tops. I can see some gain there, but mostly it's all in my arse. I got some serious junk in the trunk going on.

[gobbles23]

I do chest/bi on Mon, shoulders/tri on Thursday, and back on Friday. So there's plenty of recovery time.

Makes sense! I didn't realize that my routine follows the same principle I haven't gotten a full week in yet

What are you other ladies doing for total calories, total protein intake on your bulk?

My calories are approximately 2200 on rest days and 2400-2500 on workout days. Protein ranges from 125-165g

[skirtinthedirt]

You have done an outstanding job - well done.

2200 is your maintenance? What were you eating before? Bumping up cals can often result in initial bloating/water retention...it'll mess with you head a it but you just have to ride it out.

As far as I can tell from all of the math (I used as many formulas as I could find and took averages), somewhere between 2000 and 2300 calories is my maintenance, but I know this isn't an exact science and people tend to over estimate so I haven't hit a definitive number yet. Maybe you guys can help me estimate if I tell you what I have been doing?

I have been eating on average 1600-1700 calories a day for about 16 months (there of course have been special occasions where it has been more and every 2 weeks or so we got out to dinner and those days I'm 2000 or over, but other days because I work in a hospital I don't get lunch and only eat 1400 calories or so). Our diet is pretty clean (lean protein, whole grains, vegetables, no white sugar or flour in our house, very limited "treats" cross our threshold, etc). I have been working out 4-6 days a week for 16 months for an average of 90 minutes. This is mixed cardio and lighter weight training, emphasis on cardio. My heart rate monitor tells me I burn a minimum of 600 calories/workout these days-when I was overweight I burnt considerably more/workout because my poor heart was galloping along trying to keep up. I know 1600-1700 calories is NOT maintenance for me because I have lost 65 pounds.

The decision to up my calorie intake and lift heavier has come from the fact that my body hasn't changed in appearance much at all in the last 6 weeks. I decided to start lifting heavier and I was completely exhausted and starving all of the time. Over the last couple of days of higher calorie consumption I am no longer exhausted and no longer ravenously hungry and feel better in general and feel like I am able to handle more weight.

I'm not even sure I'd call this "bulking" at this point. Maybe just a return to normalcy? And it's not like I haven't been doing any strength training this year. My bench press has gone from needing a spotter to press the bar for 1 set circa Jan 2011 to 4 sets of 6 reps of 95 pounds circa Jan 2012....and I can now overhead press 25# dumbbells, up from gasping at 10# last year.....so, you know, I've made gains but now it's my primary focus instead of fat loss but I'm stalled out about how to transition, or even if it's time yet.

Anyway, if I can get my phone to play nicely with my computer later I will upload pics and maybe someone can tell me what direction I should try to go in. Now that body transformation has gone beyond "eat less, exercise more" for me it has all gotten very confusing.... : /

[stackums]

As far as I can tell from all of the math (I used as many formulas as I could find and took averages), somewhere between 2000 and 2300 calories is my maintenance, but I know this isn't an exact science and people tend to over estimate so I haven't hit a definitive number yet. Maybe you guys can help me estimate if I tell you what I have been doing?

I have been eating on average 1600-1700 calories a day for about 16 months (there of course have been special occasions where it has been more and every 2 weeks or so we got out to dinner and those days I'm 2000 or over, but other days because I work in a hospital I don't get lunch and only eat 1400 calories or so). Our diet is pretty clean (lean protein, whole grains, vegetables, no white sugar or flour in our house, very limited "treats" cross our threshold, etc). I have been working out 4-6 days a week for 16 months for an average of 90 minutes. This is mixed cardio and lighter weight training, emphasis on cardio. My heart rate monitor tells me I burn a minimum of 600 calories/workout these days-when I was overweight I burnt considerably more/workout because my poor heart was galloping along trying to keep up. I know 1600-1700 calories is NOT maintenance for me because I have lost 65 pounds.

The decision to up my calorie intake and lift heavier has come from the fact that my body hasn't changed in appearance much at all in the last 6 weeks. I decided to start lifting heavier and I was completely exhausted and starving all of the time. Over the last couple of days of higher calorie consumption I am no longer exhausted and no longer ravenously hungry and feel better in general and feel like I am able to handle more weight.

I'm not even sure I'd call this "bulking" at this point. Maybe just a return to normalcy? And it's not like I haven't been doing any strength training this year. My bench press has gone from needing a spotter to press the bar for 1 set circa Jan 2011 to 4 sets of 6 reps of 95 pounds circa Jan 2012....and I can now overhead press 25# dumbbells, up from gasping at 10# last year.....so, you know, I've made gains but now it's my primary focus instead of fat loss but I'm stalled out about how to transition, or even if it's time yet.

Anyway, if I can get my phone to play nicely with my computer later I will upload pics and maybe someone can tell me what direction I should try to go in. Now that body transformation has gone beyond "eat less, exercise more" for me it has all gotten very confusing.... : /

WOW! You have made some outstanding progress! You should feel damn proud!! Thats awesome on those overhead presses! Feels good, doesnt it?? Great job!...and it just keeps getting better from here. Cant wait to see your pics!