My Program/Principles-- What Do You Think?

[Saurion]

Okay, here is my routine, as well as my plans for how to mix it up:

This is a 6-day/week 2-day split:

Workout #1:
Mon, Wed, Fri
Chest:
Bench Press-3x12-15
Incline DB Press-6x6-10
DB Pec Flys-6x6-10
Pec Decks-6x6-10
Cable Crossovers-6x6-10

Back:
Romanian Deadlifts-6x6-10
Bent-Over DB Rows-6x6-10
Wide-Grip Pulley Rows-6x6-10
Stiff-Legged Good Mornings-6x6-10
Lat Pulldowns-6x6-10

Delts:
Front Shoulder Raises-6x6-10
Side-Lat Raise-6x6-10
Lying Rear-Delt Raises-6x6-10
Behind-the-Neck Smith Press-6x6-10
Machine Shoulder Press-6x6-10

Workout #2:
Tues, Thur, Sat

Biceps:
Standing BB Curls-6x6-10
Alternating DB Curls-6x6-10
Machine Preacher Curls-6x6-10
Hammer Curls-6x6-10

Triceps:
Lying One-Arm DB Triceps Extension-6x6-10
Skullcrushers-6x6-10
Close-Grip Bench Press-6x6-10
Triceps Pushdown-6x6-10
Overhead Cable Triceps Extension-6x6-10
"Diamond" Pushups-1xFailure

Legs:
Squat-3x12-15
Leg Extensions-6x6-10
Leg Curls-6x6-10
BB Lunges-3x10-12
Leg Press-15,12,10,8,10 (Pyramid Sets--to supplement squats)

Everyday (calves, abs, forearms):

Calves:
Machine Calves Raises -10x10
One-Legged DB Calf Raises-5x14, 5x12
Donkey Calve Raises-10x10

Abs:
Machine Crunches-5x8
Reverse Crunches-5x8

Forearms:
Reverse EZ-Grip BB Curls-8x10-12
Wrist Curls-10x10

This routine, although intense, works for me--it focuses on high volume. Each muscle is trained 3x/week. Being a beginner, w/ slightly accelerated recovery, this routine helps me see results. Thing is, too many people place emphasis on either way too much structure or "Winging it"-- you need to balance both!!! When I first started working out, it was miserable, so I decided to research-- I now know that you need structure, but you need to be instinctual also. If I find I cant complete the 3rd or 4th exercise for a muscle group, Ill switch the order around. Also, the reason I do so many exercises per muscle/muscle group is so I can completely exhaust the muscle-- a simple change in motion can reveal how much is still left in a muscle--that means Im not going to see gains as I would w/ total exhaustion. That being said, there is a difference between exhaustion and failure--failure should only be used for body-weight exercises (dips, pushups, reverse crunches, pull-ups, etc.). Still, this workout wont work forever-- eventually, I wont be able to increase the weight (plateau) and will have to adjust. Many techniques could be used to push past this; i.e. pyramid sets,drop/strip sets, supersets, giantsets, partial reps, rest-pause, etc. There is a very important method that I discovered on this site-- the "X-reps"-- reps that are done only in the area of the motion where the greatest force is applied-- although they hurt like f**k, I try to push past the burn, almost to failure-- they are impressive mass-gainers, and I like using them on ALL exercises--isolation and compound exercises. After a while, Im going to switch up the routine. I believe that many different workouts should be used-- full-body, HFT, HVT, HIT, 5x5, "Waterbury Method", 3-,4-,5-Day splits, working out 2x/daily (not the same muscle/muscle group of course), and so many others. I have found many routines on this site, and mix-and-match exercises, principals, techniques, etc. that I can start using when I decide to try something new.

I love the burning you get while while working out, which may be while I can handle so much--although Im young, I have a lot of knowledge on bodybuilding, I know my body, and am EXTREMELY cautious with overtraining. So, when Im finally able to get on a regular workout schedule (meaning being able to go more than 2, 3 weeks at a time), I am 95% confident that this routine will yield great results for me.

So, leave your opinions and critiques. Quick note, this is basically the routine I have on my profile, just copied and pasted.

[vslice44]

I don't care how much you think you know, good luck burning out.

[GuyJin]

I give it two weeks beforeburnout sets in.

In most cases, I would recommend doing less, but since you're seventeen and you know it all, I won't bother. Good luck.

[sushi362]

You've got more sets in 1 workout than i have in an entire week's worth of training.

[whitneymmm]

Okay, here is my routine, as well as my plans for how to mix it up:

This is a 6-day/week 2-day split:

Workout #1:
Mon, Wed, Fri
Chest:
Bench Press-3x12-15
Incline DB Press-6x6-10
DB Pec Flys-6x6-10
Pec Decks-6x6-10
Cable Crossovers-6x6-10

Back:
Romanian Deadlifts-6x6-10
Bent-Over DB Rows-6x6-10
Wide-Grip Pulley Rows-6x6-10
Stiff-Legged Good Mornings-6x6-10
Lat Pulldowns-6x6-10

Delts:
Front Shoulder Raises-6x6-10
Side-Lat Raise-6x6-10
Lying Rear-Delt Raises-6x6-10
Behind-the-Neck Smith Press-6x6-10
Machine Shoulder Press-6x6-10

Workout #2:
Tues, Thur, Sat

Biceps:
Standing BB Curls-6x6-10
Alternating DB Curls-6x6-10
Machine Preacher Curls-6x6-10
Hammer Curls-6x6-10

Triceps:
Lying One-Arm DB Triceps Extension-6x6-10
Skullcrushers-6x6-10
Close-Grip Bench Press-6x6-10
Triceps Pushdown-6x6-10
Overhead Cable Triceps Extension-6x6-10
"Diamond" Pushups-1xFailure

Legs:
Squat-3x12-15
Leg Extensions-6x6-10
Leg Curls-6x6-10
BB Lunges-3x10-12
Leg Press-15,12,10,8,10 (Pyramid Sets--to supplement squats)

Everyday (calves, abs, forearms):

Calves:
Machine Calves Raises -10x10
One-Legged DB Calf Raises-5x14, 5x12
Donkey Calve Raises-10x10

Abs:
Machine Crunches-5x8
Reverse Crunches-5x8

Forearms:
Reverse EZ-Grip BB Curls-8x10-12
Wrist Curls-10x10

This routine, although intense, works for me--it focuses on high volume. Each muscle is trained 3x/week. Being a beginner, w/ slightly accelerated recovery, this routine helps me see results. Thing is, too many people place emphasis on either way too much structure or "Winging it"-- you need to balance both!!! When I first started working out, it was miserable, so I decided to research-- I now know that you need structure, but you need to be instinctual also. If I find I cant complete the 3rd or 4th exercise for a muscle group, Ill switch the order around. Also, the reason I do so many exercises per muscle/muscle group is so I can completely exhaust the muscle-- a simple change in motion can reveal how much is still left in a muscle--that means Im not going to see gains as I would w/ total exhaustion. That being said, there is a difference between exhaustion and failure--failure should only be used for body-weight exercises (dips, pushups, reverse crunches, pull-ups, etc.). Still, this workout wont work forever-- eventually, I wont be able to increase the weight (plateau) and will have to adjust. Many techniques could be used to push past this; i.e. pyramid sets,drop/strip sets, supersets, giantsets, partial reps, rest-pause, etc. There is a very important method that I discovered on this site-- the "X-reps"-- reps that are done only in the area of the motion where the greatest force is applied-- although they hurt like f**k, I try to push past the burn, almost to failure-- they are impressive mass-gainers, and I like using them on ALL exercises--isolation and compound exercises. After a while, Im going to switch up the routine. I believe that many different workouts should be used-- full-body, HFT, HVT, HIT, 5x5, "Waterbury Method", 3-,4-,5-Day splits, working out 2x/daily (not the same muscle/muscle group of course), and so many others. I have found many routines on this site, and mix-and-match exercises, principals, techniques, etc. that I can start using when I decide to try something new.

I love the burning you get while while working out, which may be while I can handle so much--although Im young, I have a lot of knowledge on bodybuilding, I know my body, and am EXTREMELY cautious with overtraining. So, when Im finally able to get on a regular workout schedule (meaning being able to go more than 2, 3 weeks at a time), I am 95% confident that this routine will yield great results for me.

So, leave your opinions and critiques. Quick note, this is basically the routine I have on my profile, just copied and pasted.

One of the problems with this program (amongst many) is that you seem to have no concept of muscle overlap. For example you WILL be training your triceps on chest day, plus you're doing specific triceps work every other day. You grow when you REST, not train. Training simply provides the stimulus for growth. You're also hitting your biceps six days a week, as well as your legs. So do yourself a favor and listen to what other people are saying, even if you think you know better. The fact that your split does not accommodate recovery demonstrates that you DON'T know better. Are you happy with your results? You should pick a program that is designed by someone who knows what they are doing.

[Saurion]

Okay, seriously. This is a THEORY. I asked people w/ what they thought, so I could know what the hell Im doing-- or doing WRONG for that matter. This DID work for me, but from what Im getting, for a short period of time only. Its true-- Ive only been able to work out 2 or weeks at a time, so I dont know the long-term effects of this.

Although in after-thought, it was stupid, the basic idea of my workout was:

36-60 reps/exercise would hit exhaustion. And multiple angles would help hit TOTAL exhaustion.

I actually DO have pretty decent recovery abilities--slightly above average. But, Ill analyze it, and make changes. CONSTRUCTIVE criticism is vastly appreciated. Oh, and to GuyJin, you schmuck, that was really presumptuous of you; I actually do take advice. Quite well-- I dont know it all, nor do I profess to, ever-- so, your comment is noted. 36-60 reps/exercise would hit exhaustion. And multiple angles would help hit TOTAL exhaustion. Maybe, sticking to 2-3 exercises per muscle, at 4x8-12? But still, each muscle 3x/week.

Still, everyone is different, so Ill give it a try for 4 weeks, and see where I am. If it fails, then Ill move on. Also, I plan to devote like 3-4 months to improving strength, so Im going in w/ a strong foundation.

If anything, you have to admit that my logic was somewhat right. Still, maybe I should stick to beginner programs, versus techniques and routines of pros?

[sushi362]

What are your big 3 lifts?

You shouldn't be worrying about "hitting a muscle from a different angle" until you get close or hit 300 bench, 400 squat 500 deadlift.

And..im 100% sure the pros dont have this much volume.

[sushi362]

Here is a simple routine that i did a couple months ago that worked well for me:


Pull:
Deadlift/Deadlift Variation/Good Mornings: 2 x 5 or 3 x 3(switch rep schemes when the other stalls out)
Pull Throughs: 3 x 10 OR GHR: 2 x failure
Curls: 3 x 8
Abs: 3 x 12 HEAVY

Push:
BB Bench/Dips/OHP: 3 x 5, or 3 x 3 or 1 x 3(switch rep schemes when the other stalls out)
Incline DB Bench: 4 x 6
Tricep Pushdown/ Insert Tricep exercise here: 3 x 8

Legs:
Squat: 3 x 5, 2 x 5, 2 x 10 or 1 x 20 (whatever rep scheme you want)
SLDLs: 1-2 x 8-10

[aussiedave88]

Lol why are you concerned with "hitting total exhaustion" or hitting "multiple angles". You're overcomplicating things, it's really very simple especially at the noob stage. Get on a simple program (which one doesn't really matter), progressively increase the resistance and eat lots...Your muscles will get bigger and more developed without the need for total exhaustion or multiple angles.

That program might work for you initially....because you're a noob and pretty much anything will stimulate gains when you're new to training. But you'll find you burn out very quickly on that because it's simply too much volume for you to recover and be able to add weight to the bar...no adding weight to the bar = no significant growth.

[whitneymmm]

Okay, seriously. This is a THEORY. I asked people w/ what they thought, so I could know what the hell Im doing-- or doing WRONG for that matter. This DID work for me, but from what Im getting, for a short period of time only. Its true-- Ive only been able to work out 2 or weeks at a time, so I dont know the long-term effects of this.

Although in after-thought, it was stupid, the basic idea of my workout was:

36-60 reps/exercise would hit exhaustion. And multiple angles would help hit TOTAL exhaustion.

I actually DO have pretty decent recovery abilities--slightly above average. But, Ill analyze it, and make changes. CONSTRUCTIVE criticism is vastly appreciated. Oh, and to GuyJin, you schmuck, that was really presumptuous of you; I actually do take advice. Quite well-- I dont know it all, nor do I profess to, ever-- so, your comment is noted. 36-60 reps/exercise would hit exhaustion. And multiple angles would help hit TOTAL exhaustion. Maybe, sticking to 2-3 exercises per muscle, at 4x8-12? But still, each muscle 3x/week.

Still, everyone is different, so Ill give it a try for 4 weeks, and see where I am. If it fails, then Ill move on. Also, I plan to devote like 3-4 months to improving strength, so Im going in w/ a strong foundation.

If anything, you have to admit that my logic was somewhat right. Still, maybe I should stick to beginner programs, versus techniques and routines of pros?

The reality is that since you're a beginner you can get away with doing much less and still get the results you want. You should take advantage of your "beginner" period as much as possible. Your volume is too high but you can go ahead and try it for a while. I'm certain you will burn out quickly. Training should be simple and hard. This is far too complex. If you aren't allowing recovery you won't see results.

[GuyJin]

LOL at the "schmuck" comment. Coming from a young schmuck who's barely scratched the surface in terms of starting training, I find that laughable. Okay, if you want "constructive criticism," here it is.

What I find inane is your concept that you think you need total exhaustion of all the fibrahs and that you think you need it from all angles. Not at this point you don't. You cannot handle that amount of volume; even dudes on the juice would say "Whoa." The routine looks like it was taken from something Arnold did in his heyday. FWIW, I'll give you the benefit of the doubt that you're "analyzing" it all and yes, fatigue is one way to go when it comes to training, but you aren't ready to do what you're doing, "decent recovery ability" (your words) or not.

However, you did say it was a "theory" and then you said it "worked for you." Worked in what way? If you could only do it for two weeks or so until "exhaustion" set in (my word) then you're doing way too much. How can you know it "worked for you" if you only did it for two or so weeks? That isn't long enough. If you think what I've just written is bashing you, it isn't; you did ask for my constructive criticism and I've given it, along with everyone else.

Stick to the basics for now. When you've got some years under your belt and your general lifts are up (however long that takes) then you might think about upping the volume to somewhere near this level. Until then, work up to it.

[james0566]

OP, you are clueless!

[Saurion]

Okay fine. Considering all the posts, it is abundantly clear, I have no clue what the hell im doing. So, I have a friend who is a personal trainer at the gym up the street from me--between his advice, my bodytype and other teens, I have a new routine. So, how about this:

Mon: Chest
Bench Press-4x8-12
Incline Flys-4x8-12
Pec Decks-4x8-12
Cable Crossovers-4x8-12

Tues: Back
Romanian Deadlifts-4x8-12
Bent-Over BB Rows-4x8-12
T-Bar Rows-4x8-12
Close-Grip Pulley Rows-4x8-12
Lat Pulldowns-4x8-12
Standing Upright Rows-4x8-12

Weds: Legs
Squat-3x12-15
Leg Extensions-4x8-12
Leg Curls-4x8-12
BB Lunges-3x12-15
Machine Calf Raises-10x10

Thur: Off

Fri: Arms
Machine Preacher Curls-4x8-12
Standing EZ-Curl BB Curls-4x8-12
Hammer Curls-4x8-12
Lying One-Arm Triceps Extension-4x8-12
Rope Triceps Pulldown-4x8-12
Triceps Pushdown-4x8-12
Reverse Standing EZ-Curl BB Curls-4x12-15

Sat: Shoulders
Front Shoulder Raise-4x8-12
Side Lat Raise-4x8-12
Lying Rear-Delt Raise-4x8-12
Smith Machine Shoulder Press-4x8-12

Sun: Off

I figure, this is a five-day split, and each muscle is trained once a week. AND< this is based on my body type, and on the workout routines of the people on the Teen Transformations. After a while, Ill move to training each muscle 2x/week, then Ill move onto 3x/week after 2 years or so.

Oh, and to GuyJin, I wasn't calling you a schmuck for your critique-- You're a schmuck for assuming I wouldnt take your advice, simply because of my age. And clearly, you have a lot of experience and make a good point. Maybe I was overzealous....okay, definitely was overzealous. So, I'll tone it down until I have more strength and experience. Once I get to a size where Im comfortable and lose more weight, Ill start focusing on getting stronger also.

[james0566]

still clueless.... just do a basic routine

[GuyJin]

OP/Schmuck,

You ARE clueless. I presumed nothing. I read your opening post and what your goals were. I then read how you did your "high-volume" programme and you got results from it--which you have not yet posted. Just saying it "worked" really isn't good enough. Then, other people counseled you to do less, build a base, and you wrote in post #13 that perhaps you were a little overzealous. And then you wrote how you wanted to do yet ANOTHER high-volume workkout based on comments from friends and a personal trainer and your own ideas, which really is just a bit less than your first "Arnold" routine. If you can handle this, then fine--good luck. I credit you with at least trying stuff out, but you are still a putz who doesn't really listen.

Hey, you don't have to take my advice and that's fine; I just post up simply to help some of the newer guys avoid the mistakes I made along the way. I think the others who've posted in this thread are also trying to help you out. Do what you want to do; I'm out.

[aussiedave88]

By "basic routine" people are suggesting you get a low volume, strength based program together and just focus on upping your poundages on the big compound movements until you have a reasonable strength foundation. Then once you've built a bit of a base you can try messing around with higher volume and heaps of iso exercises.

Some good routines for someone looking to build a strength foundation -
Starting Strength by Rippetoe
All Pro's beginner routine
Iron Addict's Simple Power Based Routine
Or you could put together a simple upper/lower or push/pull split, but don't put a million isolation exercises in it and don't train more than 3-4 days per week.

[Saurion]

Basically, I am using two alternating workouts, on Mon, Weds, Fri.

Workout "A"
Squat- 5x5
Bench Press- 5x5
Inverted Rows- 3x12
Push-Ups- 3x12
Reverse Crunches- 3x12

Workout "B"
Squat- 5x5
Overhead Press- 5x5
Deadlift- 1x5 <--- Use heavy weights
Lat Pulldowns- 3x12
Reverse Crunches- 3x12

Every workout, weight is increased by 5 lbs-- except for squats, where it is 10 lbs. This is taken from stronglifts.com, where the guy talks about intensity over volume.

I used this guys ideas when I first started, nd thought I was beyond it-- but I need to stay on it for at least six-eight months, as I had to quit the gym 11 months ago. Of course, thanks for the suggestions, and for making it stick... usually, Ill get hit by common sense...it just takes a little while. But again, this does seem like a good routine? The one I just mentioned?