Ripptoe censors people?

[KyleAaron]

So you're saying the triceps don't act as antagonist muscles during curls to stabilize the elbow joint? It's pretty much the same thing.

The triceps are completely inactive during a properly-performed bicep curl. This is easy to see, just get a mate to curl, and poke his triceps. Flabby.

It seems that despite tossing out the names, you're unsure what they mean. I suggest this section of exrx.net will help you. The pages on individual exercises will teach you a lot, too - including that the hamstrings act as dynamic stabilisers during the deep squat, and that triceps are uninvolved in a curl. With correct form, of course. If you're lurching around like the typical young male with an ego bigger than his muscles, well all bets are off. I have seen curls, lat pulldowns and deadlifts where the only part of the body not being used was the brain.

[Orlando1234977]

lol, solid analogy there.



You seem to be implying that dumb guy competes on stage.

What gives you that impression?

No, the implication has to do with the usefullness/retardeness of the question.
Not to mention the fact that he doesn't have a decent Deadlift, Squat and Bench himself!
And is SDG really going around telling people how to train?


I suppose since some of you like Rippetoe's routine/books etc, he has the green light on opinions of all topics, and ought not be questioned on anything he states, true?

Or, perhaps its ok/healthy, for even the knowledgeable to be questioned/challenged from time to time... I certainly don't mind seeing various viewpoints and am comfortable with forming my own opinion after the free speech and exchange.

[AllDayGravy]

Oh boy I definitely don't mean this about all Ripppetoe fans but I see way to many with a Jim Jones type like for the guy that is frankly just scary as all get out.

[Farley1324]

I suppose since some of you like Rippetoe's routine/books etc, he has the green light on opinions of all topics, and ought not be questioned on anything he states, true?

The routines work, in the end it's as simple as that.

[Mattman1217]

The one thing i disagree with Rippetoe is...his GOMAD theory.

1. Its disgusting.

2. He himself posted pics of a kid he trained, with GOMAD. The kid went from skinny to fat and weak. 170 to 242, he cant bench BW for reps, he squats 335 for sets of 5 and i deadlift more than him.

3. He does censor other training methods, but maybe because he jsut wants money..

Gomad works.
The kid your talking about went from squatting about 145 3x5 to 320 5x5 in about 12, or so weeks. That is hardly weak progress.
For some reason his deads were lower than his squat, but it was not for lack of depth. There are vids showing him doing 5x5 320 at full depth btw.

People like Rippetoe, Wendler, and Starr are about making people strong.
That's what they are good at teaching.
Bodybuilders have somewhat different goals.
Rip does not claim to know how to make people into the next Mr. Olympia.
That is not his goal.

[Mattman1217]

I guess you missed this then:

[url]

You can check my math but 60lbs in 2 weeks and 60 lbs in 4 weeks adds up to 120 lbs inside of 6 weeks. I can't make this stuff up!

I did the program wrong (was doing high bar squats had no concept, and did not read the book), and went from 155lbs. 3x5 to 250 3x5 in 7 weeks.
95lb. increase in the squat doing the program wrong!
All this after doing a split routine I made up for the first 2+ months of training.

Had I started out doing the program correctly, and began SS before the split routine I did first, my gains would have been in line with those 120 lbs. you quoted.
When I first got under the bar I MIGHT have hit 115 for a single.

[Sarevok459]

I'm still waiting for a study done on novices who eat plenty of food/protein and perform heavy freeweight barbell back squats at least 2x per week. Or, uh, at all.

Not sure if I count, but I've been working with primarily the heavy barbell movements (Squat/Bench/Dead/OH press along with Dips/Chins and curls/traps)

I started with the bar on every exercise, weighed under 140 lbs.

I'm currently at:

150 Lbs (Cut 20 lbs this summer)

200 Squat
175 Bench
225 Dead
100 OH

I add 10-12.5 lbs on Chins currently
I add 10 lbs to Dips (This will go up very soon)

I curl 60 lbs easily
Traps are still in development...I'm not pushing it.

I try to eat my bodyweight in protein everyday, bodyweight x .6 in fats and fill in the rest with carbs...usually more carbs on days that I lift, which usually M/W/F

I started on Ripp's and developed a LOT of leg strength. However, squatting 3x a week started bothering me, so I cut it down.

Everyone here that says that stuff doesn't work is just in denial for their own failure.

**For the record, Yes I'm probably NOT progressing at the absolute FASTEST pace possible...but, I'm happy with what I'm doing for now...I'm appreciative of the knowledge everyone here is always willing to share, and I'm sure glad you guys set me straight with building my foundation in the compound lift area.**

[ptwa9]

The triceps are completely inactive during a properly-performed bicep curl. This is easy to see, just get a mate to curl, and poke his triceps. Flabby.

Yeah fair enough. Exrx doesn't list it at a stabilizer. So bad example.

It seems that despite tossing out the names, you're unsure what they mean.

I was under the impression that isometric simply meant no change in muscle length during the exercise. Apparently it implies no change in joint angle as well. Not really looking to get a degree in kinseology, though some of it's interesting.

[Kirra]

Hopefully he'll report more than your,

http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showpo...03&postcount=2
Squat 120
Deadlift 240
Bench 92.5

Otherwise, if it's less than your big numbers all the info he presented will be deemed false and inaccurate

I'm not the one here claiming to know a lot about lifting. All I'm saying is that SS works, and that SDG is full of ****.

Besides, you do realise that those stats are over a month old right?

Squat: 176
Deadlift: 275
Bench: 143

That is what my current 5rep maxes are. After a month and a half of SS my squat has gone up 50 pounds, deadlift, 35 pounds and bench 50 pounds. And that with ****ty squat form and often without proper sleep.

[SumDumGoi]

I'm not the one here claiming to know a lot about lifting. All I'm saying is that SS works, and that SDG is full of ****.

Besides, you do realise that those stats are over a month old right?

Squat: 176
Deadlift: 275
Bench: 143

That is what my current 5rep maxes are. After a month and a half of SS my squat has gone up 50 pounds, deadlift, 35 pounds and bench 50 pounds. And that with ****ty squat form and often without proper sleep.

Even if your lifts were impressive this would be a stupid argument.

[Kirra]

Yeah. Because results don't matter.

You sir, are thick as pig ****.

[SumDumGoi]

Yeah. Because results don't matter.

You sir, are thick as pig ****.

Would you trust every pro athlete to be knowledgeable about training? I am really not sure what to say to you if you truly believe that because a guy is strong that he knows what he is talking about. I will suggest this to you though, perhaps if you have ****ty lifts yourself you shouldn't try and criticize someone else. According to your own logic, you should not be passing out advice.

[Kirra]

Would you trust every pro athlete to be knowledgeable about training? I am really not sure what to say to you if you truly believe that because a guy is strong that he knows what he is talking about. I will suggest this to you though, perhaps if you have ****ty lifts yourself you shouldn't try and criticize someone else. According to your own logic, you should not be passing out advice.

No. But I sure as hell would take their advice over advice of some internet troll who doesn't lift or train others.

[Orlando1234977]

The routines work, in the end it's as simple as that.

So because he wrote a beginners program that works (who can't), members of the NSCA (SDG), aren't able to defend their position against claims made against them?
I'd assume implying that nobody from the NSCA wrote a program that works? I think you need to realize/recognize the magnitude and sheer size of the NSCA in comparison to SS/sticky/wiki.

[AllDayGravy]

SDG isn't a troll brah. Come on.

[Slow-N-Steady]

I suppose since some of you like Rippetoe's routine/books etc, he has the green light on opinions of all topics, and ought not be questioned on anything he states, true?

I think for some people here, that is the case. It makes no sense to take anyone’s word as golden..and the parrot cult around here is damn annoying. When you have some scrawny noob bastard busting into a new thread screaming to a fellow noob “read the book” or “you’re not doing the program”, it’s just laughable.

However, Rippetoe is very, very knowledgeable. I know that when I was squatting and deadlifting heavy, I would watch his vids on youtube before going to the gym EVERY workout. Honestly, in my opinion, I don’t see much reason to question the guy’s methods or theories, although I wouldn’t blindy accept anything the guy has said. His vids alone helped my squat and deadlift increase largely overnight (it’s not magic, it just helped me close to perfect my form). And everything else I’ve read from the guy seems very solid.

I truly believe that the main reason people want to question the guy’s theories and the program in general is because the SS cult gang is so annoying on these forums. I think there are several programs out there that are great for beginners, for example, All Pro’s, Westside for Skinny Bastards, and Reg Parks 5x5. All of these programs “work” in addition to SS, yet the anal cult only exists for SS. And that’s mainly because people around here are parrots…half of these people have crappy lifts and are ridiculously skinny. Why on earth are you shoving SS down ppl’s throats when you haven’t had any significant success yourself? Makes no sense…

Gomad works.
The kid your talking about went from squatting about 145 3x5 to 320 5x5 in about 12, or so weeks. That is hardly weak progress.
For some reason his deads were lower than his squat, but it was not for lack of depth. There are vids showing him doing 5x5 320 at full depth btw. .

I think people are getting carried away with the argument against and for GOMAD. Milk is just food, you control your diet. It’s just like when Dave Tate said in a video or article, that to get strong you should be going to McDonalds and ordering 4 or 5 breakfast sandwiches and hash browns or whatever. Just because Dave Tate said it doesn’t mean you have to do it…a little common sense goes a long way. They are just options and if you are putting on too much fat, simply cut back.

People like Rippetoe, Wendler, and Starr are about making people strong.
That's what they are good at teaching.
Bodybuilders have somewhat different goals.
Rip does not claim to know how to make people into the next Mr. Olympia.
That is not his goal.

Agreed, and along the same note, it makes sense to acknowledge that strength is not the #1 goal for everyone, regardless of experience.

[SumDumGoi]

No. But I sure as hell would take their advice over advice of some internet troll who doesn't lift or train others.

Once again: I don't?

[Sarevok459]

[FastCatChamp]

This thread (a twice per month reproduction of the same thread driven by the same individuals) and the postings over at ss.com are insanely funny.

SDG has taken on Rip in a head-to-head war of words. SDG has his studies, while Rip has what his eyes have seen in front of him.

It really makes me think that the whole debate can be summed up by one question.........

"You can get a good look at a t-bone by sticking your head up a bull's ass........but wouldn't you rather just take the butcher's word for it?"

In the debate here and over at ss.com......its clear to me that Rip wears a very bloody butcher's apron.

[SumDumGoi]

This thread (a twice per month reproduction of the same thread driven by the same individuals) and the postings over at ss.com are insanely funny.

SDG has taken on Rip in a head-to-head war of words. SDG has his studies, while Rip has what his eyes have seen in front of him.

It really makes me think that the whole debate can be summed up by one question.........

"You can get a good look at a t-bone by sticking your head up a bull's ass........but wouldn't you rather just take the butcher's word for it?"

In the debate here and over at ss.com......its clear to me that Rip wears a very bloody butcher's apron.

Here is Ripp's strategy. He criticizes the research by misquoting and misapplying what it says. By doing so he drums up controversy which is good for himself. However, despite his criticism of the literature he employs exactly the same methodologies which organizations like the NSCA recommend. The only difference is that he makes absurd claims regarding expected increases in strength and muscle mass which is good for his business.

If you want to see purely gains in strength and muscle mass associated with the NSCA recommendations, please observe the strength and conditioning coach for any collegiate or professional sports teams. These guys are all CSCS certified from the NSCA and if they weren't getting results they wouldn't have a job. Ripp on the other hand needs to create some controversy and make exaggerated claims in order to get his name out there and lure people into his gym. He is the equivalent of a late night infomercial.

To his credit, Ripp is very good at teaching form/technique. By improving form and technique I have no doubt he can coach people and have them quickly increase the weight on the bar. The problem is that after reading his nonsense he clearly thinks that the increases in weight are being created by increases in muscle mass. That is not the case.

I am certain that if you were to stick your head up Ripp's ass you would find him staring back at you.

[Kirra]

Once again: I don't?

Do you?

[SumDumGoi]

Do you?

Kirra,

What does this line of argument get you? How does this address anything that has been said or further the discussion? Quite simply, this is silly. Not that I care about your lifts, but it is not like you are a hulking pile of man-muscle yourself, now are you? Using your argument, that would invalidate any claims that you made. However, I am not going to say that because you don't bench 300 lbs that you can't contribute to the discussion. Any points that you make could very well be valid regardless of your current stats. The problem is that you don't actually present any points. You just present a lot of conjecture. Please try and address the actual problem at hand, without making stupid pointless assertions.

If you want to know, I can assure you that all of my lifts are greatly more than yours and I weigh approximately the same as you. Also, I am off to go lift now and deadlifts are on the agenda. How does this information validate either of our points?

[Kirra]

I'm not the one here giving suggestions on how to improve Starting Strength. YOU ARE. Therefore it's expected that you have some background in training either yourself, or other people. Just like it is expected that a person giving sex tips is not a virgin.

You are criticising a routine you have never tried, and a book you have never read. Doesn't that seem a bit silly to you?

[SumDumGoi]

I'm not the one here giving suggestions on how to improve Starting Strength. YOU ARE. Therefore it's expected that you have some background in training either yourself, or other people. Just like it is expected that a person giving sex tips is not a virgin.

You are criticising a routine you have never tried, and a book you have never read. Doesn't that seem a bit silly to you?

I would hate to break this to you but your assumptions are incorrect. Also, the SS program is not above being criticized, and neither is any other program for that matter. Your dogmatic devotion to this single program is quite worrisome.

[Kirra]

Maybe you should actually, god forbid, read the book and try the program before giving suggestions on how to improve it? I'm pretty sure that you are not past the stage where linear progression is no longer possible for you lol.

[SumDumGoi]

Maybe you should actually, god forbid, read the book and try the program before giving suggestions on how to improve it? I'm pretty sure that you are not past the stage where linear progression is no longer possible for you lol.

I can assure you that I have read the book. Also, I am not a beginner.

[whitneymmm]

Lol I can't believe this is still going on...

[SumDumGoi]

Lol I can't believe this is still going on...

I know, we really should limit the length of our arguments to the length of an extended teeth whitening session. I believe it would make things more efficient.

[whitneymmm]

I know, we really should limit the length of our arguments to the length of an extended teeth whitening session. I believe it would make things more efficient.

For once, I totally agree.

[sushi362]

For once, I totally agree.

How do you get your teeth to be so white?

I brush for 5 minutes a day and mine are not even close to being as white as your's.

Crest whitening strips??