Cost No Object Machines and Free Weights, the Best of the Best

[HealthNutMD]

I've been trying to get my 2 cents in on the Panatta design. Here is an email I sent (obviously Rudy is a master, but I like to drive home my 2 cents).


I wanted to say again that I really like the prototype grips that extend back to the handle. Although they may need tweaking, the general idea is excellent.

I wanted to further clarify my thoughts on the super incline machine. Looking at this ORIGINAL 1992 Panatta Super Incline machine, it looks excellent. I wanted to clarify the thought on what "30 degrees" truly means.

I think the important point that I wanted to understand, and share with enthusiasm is what 30 degrees truly means. Obviously there is nothing magical about 30 degrees, however, the general consensus is that 30 degrees for incline maximizes pec minor muscle (upper chest) without involving too much anterior deltoid.

The original 1992 machine is actually 30 degree incline *because* the TRUE Angle is the angle of the Backrest ( - ) the angle of the lever arms.

In the case of the 1992 Panatta Super Incline, the backrest angle is 45 degrees with (-) 20 degrees lever arm start position = about 25 degrees TRUE ANGLE. This 1992 machine looks outstanding in that regard. Obviously there is more than one way to get a *true* angle of '30 degrees'

So it really depends on how you want the strength curve.





As you can see with this machine. The problem is:

30 degree backpad angle with a (-20) degree start position = about 10 degree incline. Also, the motion path could be improved. The ideal motion path is to push slightly backwards while pushing upwards. Obviously the lever arms have an ARC... the motion path cannot be linear with lever arms. However, this is not truly a disadvantage. This Nebula machine fails at achieving a true 30 degree incline, it is only about 10 degrees incline slowly increasing to approximately 15-20 degrees at the end of the motion (full extend).





In actuality, this design would have been a true incline, and much better if the pivot point (pillow block bearings) was lowered as shown in the second photo. Also the motion path would have been more correct-- to push slightly backwards while pushing upwards (and slightly backwards towards the eyes).





The Nebula Incline has an actual angle that averages out to about 15 degrees, and only achieves a maximum of approx 20 degrees at the very end (due to the arc of the lever arms).

My point is that I understand that 45 degrees BACKPAD ANGLE might be necessary to get a true 30 degree incline *because* of the downward slope of the lever arms start position.

Looking at the 1992 Panatta, I see a 45 degree backpad:






This original looks better than the Nebula machine because both units have approximately -20 degree lever arm start position. However, the Panatta 1992 Super incline has 45 backpad - 20 degree lever arm = 25 degree start (and probably about 30 degrees incline at end of movement due to 'arc' of lever arm. This is more ideal than the Nebula. The more I look at the original, the more I appreciate the beauty of the 1992 Panatta Super Incline

Anyway, it is important to understand the difference between the *backpad* angle of 30 degrees and the *true* incline angle of 30 degrees (which is combination of backpad angle and starting position of lever arm angle).

The way I look at it:

30 degree backpad requires no more than negative (-5) degree lever arm start position as shown above. This has strength curve that is most reduced (lightest) at end of the movement.

37.5 degree backpad requires no more than negative (-12) degree lever arm. Strength curve less tapered, more middle.

45 degree backpad requires no more than (-20) degree lever arm. Strength curve in the middle.


The problem with our Nebula incline and many other incline machines is that the motion path *and* true angle are not as good as they could be... If I were to create a new incline machine, it woudl have a 37.5 degree backpad with a negative 10 degree lever arm start position (at the lowest point when you are in your deepest stretch.

[CLEAVAGE]

[QUOTE=bigfeather;1161674953]Here is the information that you require. not second hand opinions. I can see your being talked out of seeking an exceptional "A" quality MedX Avenger. If you pass on getting this piece when you had the chance you were foolish. I own 2. One is in storage.


Thanks bigfeather for weighing in on the Avenger Pulldown. I appreciate your input as you have experience with this machine.

I have never had the opportunity to use the Avenger Pulldown so I wanted to gather as much information as I could before I made a decision to purchase it. Sometimes it is difficult to purchase a machine with high hopes of greatness only to be let down with its performance. This particular machine is priced a little on the high side for my budget so I think I am going to hold off. Also, a pulldown machine of any brand is not on the top of my wanted list at the moment.

I am still trying to hunt down a Pendulum hip press, gripper, and chest press in the meantime.....

[a7stringkilla]

What equipment is in the background in this picture?

[coach_ras]

Here are a few pics of that weight tree people were asking about the other day...

[irongym]

That is an awesome looking plate tree. Think I might have to have something like that made up! Right now I have a York spider plate tree, a hammer strength tree, and 2 Apex trees. I'd like to replace the apex units to something like this, or maybe get another York spider.

[coach_ras]

You might like the design of this weight tree as well...

[bigfeather]

I feel that my description of the Avenger pulldown is spot on. I rated the machine an A to A- which would be 94 or 95 out of 100. I did not say anything disparaging about the machine.

I am not going to rate a machine an A+ 100 out of 100 if I think that it could be improved upon.

The Avenger pulldown could benefit from having a footbar, a small adjustable backpad, and a longer seat to get the user closer to the thigh pads if needed.

***Some might even prefer the old round style grip handles like on the Nautilus low friction series III pulldown.***

Earlier in this thread, I mistakenly gave the Power Plus 10 degree chest an A+. That should have been an A to A+ (95-96) rating because clearly that machine could have been improved with the addition of a foot bar which I stated that fact somewhere in this thread.

Wasn't referring to you DWG. I did write on it's flaw. The Nitty gritty part of my write up. i only give it an A like you. Nothing personal lol. David

[coach_ras]

Stoked to pick this piece up tomorrow... Think it will be great for teaching variations of the olympic lifts- ie. clean pulls, jump shrugs, high pulls, hang high pulls to young kids & older personal training clients. & will soon see about how well it works for flat bench and military press options. Looking forward to posting more info in a few weeks after I get some time with it.

[bigfeather]

I've been trying to get my 2 cents in on the Panatta design. Here is an email I sent (obviously Rudy is a master, but I like to drive home my 2 cents).


I wanted to say again that I really like the prototype grips that extend back to the handle. Although they may need tweaking, the general idea is excellent.

I wanted to further clarify my thoughts on the super incline machine. Looking at this ORIGINAL 1992 Panatta Super Incline machine, it looks excellent. I wanted to clarify the thought on what "30 degrees" truly means.

I think the important point that I wanted to understand, and share with enthusiasm is what 30 degrees truly means. Obviously there is nothing magical about 30 degrees, however, the general consensus is that 30 degrees for incline maximizes pec minor muscle (upper chest) without involving too much anterior deltoid.

The original 1992 machine is actually 30 degree incline *because* the TRUE Angle is the angle of the Backrest ( - ) the angle of the lever arms.

In the case of the 1992 Panatta Super Incline, the backrest angle is 45 degrees with (-) 20 degrees lever arm start position = about 25 degrees TRUE ANGLE. This 1992 machine looks outstanding in that regard. Obviously there is more than one way to get a *true* angle of '30 degrees'

So it really depends on how you want the strength curve.





As you can see with this machine. The problem is:

30 degree backpad angle with a (-20) degree start position = about 10 degree incline. Also, the motion path could be improved. The ideal motion path is to push slightly backwards while pushing upwards. Obviously the lever arms have an ARC... the motion path cannot be linear with lever arms. However, this is not truly a disadvantage. This Nebula machine fails at achieving a true 30 degree incline, it is only about 10 degrees incline slowly increasing to approximately 15-20 degrees at the end of the motion (full extend).





In actuality, this design would have been a true incline, and much better if the pivot point (pillow block bearings) was lowered as shown in the second photo. Also the motion path would have been more correct-- to push slightly backwards while pushing upwards (and slightly backwards towards the eyes).





The Nebula Incline has an actual angle that averages out to about 15 degrees, and only achieves a maximum of approx 20 degrees at the very end (due to the arc of the lever arms).

My point is that I understand that 45 degrees BACKPAD ANGLE might be necessary to get a true 30 degree incline *because* of the downward slope of the lever arms start position.

Looking at the 1992 Panatta, I see a 45 degree backpad:






This original looks better than the Nebula machine because both units have approximately -20 degree lever arm start position. However, the Panatta 1992 Super incline has 45 backpad - 20 degree lever arm = 25 degree start (and probably about 30 degrees incline at end of movement due to 'arc' of lever arm. This is more ideal than the Nebula. The more I look at the original, the more I appreciate the beauty of the 1992 Panatta Super Incline

Anyway, it is important to understand the difference between the *backpad* angle of 30 degrees and the *true* incline angle of 30 degrees (which is combination of backpad angle and starting position of lever arm angle).

The way I look at it:

30 degree backpad requires no more than negative (-5) degree lever arm start position as shown above. This has strength curve that is most reduced (lightest) at end of the movement.

37.5 degree backpad requires no more than negative (-12) degree lever arm. Strength curve less tapered, more middle.

45 degree backpad requires no more than (-20) degree lever arm. Strength curve in the middle.


The problem with our Nebula incline and many other incline machines is that the motion path *and* true angle are not as good as they could be... If I were to create a new incline machine, it woudl have a 37.5 degree backpad with a negative 10 degree lever arm start position (at the lowest point when you are in your deepest stretch.

Very nicely done Chris.

[HealthNutMD]

Just to let everyone know, the Panatta order is moving along slowly but surely. There is no hurry since we have made many custom requests, including the fact that Rudy is actually designing us the "Super Incline Machine"

If you could see the grips, they are insane... Like above except the neutral grips go up and over the other grips and extend to the lever arms separately.

There are about 5 people that have contacted me in regards to dimensions of some of the plate loaded panatta machines, and to what degree they disassemble. I have been pushing them to get me schematics of the frame and what the smallest size will be after disassembly. They are still working on that for me... once I have the schematics, I will share or post them. That way you can know the dimensions for getting thru doorways and stairwells.

At the moment, we are not putting down a deposit. They have been doing all this work based on good faith. I gave Rudy my word I would buy a minimum of (5) of the Super Incline machines to motivate him to start this project. I can tell from the prototypes he is using his vast experience to make this machine the best incline machine of all time. I am certain there will be orders for about 8 of these and possibly more by the time we are ready to make the downpayment.

I'm going to be moving at some point over the next 1-3 months. Will keep people updated. I am expecting to put down a 50% deposit sometime in the next 1-2 months for the Panatta order, so there is plenty if time to join.

P.S. I'll post pictures of the next Super Incline Prototype when I am able to do so.

[mck1212]

Great thread HealthNut, but I'm surprised you haven't profiled the Tuff Stuff Powerspot Dumbbell spotting machine.

There was a thread a while back where a guy had a machine in his gym and no one could figure out what it was for. Eventually it was tracked down to be a dumbbell spotting machine made by Tuff Stuff
about 10 years ago, but now discontinued.

It fills a unique niche that there is really no other 'cost no object' solution for - spotting dumbbells at the end of a set. As you know there are dumbbell benches (I think you have some) that are the cost no object version of powerhooks, i.e. something that takes away the need to knee up a dumbbell at the beginning of a set, saving you significant energy.

But when it comes to providing a saftey so you can go to failure on a set, the only alternative I've seen on the boards is seriously home gym - hanging straps or ropes from the top of a rack to the dumbbells or powerhooks so you can start the movement at the top and finish at the bottom.
A better version in my opinion is the power spot self spotting dumbbell machine made by Darrell Greenland - while not as commercial as the Tuff Stuff, it is functionally better in that you can start at the top and finish at the bottom of the movement. It's seriously cost no object though as he has patented his design and is waiting to get licensed, so these are not for sale!

So you've got an out of production machine, and a never produced machine, which both fit a unique niche that is currently only met by ghetto ropes etc...this sounds exactly like the sort of hunting trip you'd like!

[mendyed]

Great thread HealthNut, but I'm surprised you haven't profiled the Tuff Stuff Powerspot Dumbbell spotting machine.

There was a thread a while back where a guy had a machine in his gym and no one could figure out what it was for. Eventually it was tracked down to be a dumbbell spotting machine made by Tuff Stuff
about 10 years ago, but now discontinued.

It fills a unique niche that there is really no other 'cost no object' solution for - spotting dumbbells at the end of a set. As you know there are dumbbell benches (I think you have some) that are the cost no object version of powerhooks, i.e. something that takes away the need to knee up a dumbbell at the beginning of a set, saving you significant energy.

But when it comes to providing a saftey so you can go to failure on a set, the only alternative I've seen on the boards is seriously home gym - hanging straps or ropes from the top of a rack to the dumbbells or powerhooks so you can start the movement at the top and finish at the bottom.
A better version in my opinion is the power spot self spotting dumbbell machine made by Darrell Greenland - while not as commercial as the Tuff Stuff, it is functionally better in that you can start at the top and finish at the bottom of the movement. It's seriously cost no object though as he has patented his design and is waiting to get licensed, so these are not for sale!

So you've got an out of production machine, and a never produced machine, which both fit a unique niche that is currently only met by ghetto ropes etc...this sounds exactly like the sort of hunting trip you'd like!

My guess, just a guess, is he didn't review it because he titled his thread "the best of the best"

[mck1212]

My guess, just a guess, is he didn't review it because he titled his thread "the best of the best"

Ha, that’s funny.

But seriously, can you suggest a better machine that does what the Tuff Stuff does? Or even better, provides the spotting plus the prepositioning?
Seriously, I’m in the market for something like this.

You get that it spots the dumbbell at the bottom of the movement right? Or actually below your point of full stretch if you want. Is that not a useful feature? Dumbbell benches preposition the dumbbell above you. That’s great. It’s not necessary but it’s still useful, you know, if cost is no option?

Same with this. You can just drop your dumbbells of course, and over time risk bending them, or F@#kg up your shoulder. Or just never go to failure on dumbbells.
Or you can do what others on this board including myself have done and rig up a rope and pulley system. Which is not cost no object – I know, I’ve done it myself and would much prefer a machine that preserves complete freedom of movement that I can just drop the dumbbells into at the start of the set .

I’ve read on this thread about racks for premade curl bars. There is nothing inherently ‘cost no object’ about a rack you put premade curl bars on. But if you have a home gym and can afford the luxury of taking up space purely so you don’t have to change weights between sets of curls or whatever, than having a rack of premade curl bars is cost no object right?

I’d love to have a machine like this that serves no other purpose, sitting across from my dumbbell rack.

[TLYNCH777]

Great thread HealthNut, but I'm surprised you haven't profiled the Tuff Stuff Powerspot Dumbbell spotting machine.

There was a thread a while back where a guy had a machine in his gym and no one could figure out what it was for. Eventually it was tracked down to be a dumbbell spotting machine made by Tuff Stuff
about 10 years ago, but now discontinued.

It fills a unique niche that there is really no other 'cost no object' solution for - spotting dumbbells at the end of a set. As you know there are dumbbell benches (I think you have some) that are the cost no object version of powerhooks, i.e. something that takes away the need to knee up a dumbbell at the beginning of a set, saving you significant energy.

But when it comes to providing a saftey so you can go to failure on a set, the only alternative I've seen on the boards is seriously home gym - hanging straps or ropes from the top of a rack to the dumbbells or powerhooks so you can start the movement at the top and finish at the bottom.
A better version in my opinion is the power spot self spotting dumbbell machine made by Darrell Greenland - while not as commercial as the Tuff Stuff, it is functionally better in that you can start at the top and finish at the bottom of the movement. It's seriously cost no object though as he has patented his design and is waiting to get licensed, so these are not for sale!

So you've got an out of production machine, and a never produced machine, which both fit a unique niche that is currently only met by ghetto ropes etc...this sounds exactly like the sort of hunting trip you'd like!

That is an excellent piece. I used this machine several times when I would train using Vince Girondas 8x8 for presses. Extremely safe and smooth really nice feel. I have only seen this at one gym (golds gym in deer park NY) and not sure if they even have it anymore. I really liked to use it going heavier and sticking with a challenging weight. This is the only tuff stuff machine I have used that I highly recommend.

[OutKlast]

Ha, that’s funny.

But seriously, can you suggest a better machine that does what the Tuff Stuff does? Or even better, provides the spotting plus the prepositioning?
Seriously, I’m in the market for something like this.

You get that it spots the dumbbell at the bottom of the movement right? Or actually below your point of full stretch if you want. Is that not a useful feature? Dumbbell benches preposition the dumbbell above you. That’s great. It’s not necessary but it’s still useful, you know, if cost is no option?

Same with this. You can just drop your dumbbells of course, and over time risk bending them, or F@#kg up your shoulder. Or just never go to failure on dumbbells.
Or you can do what others on this board including myself have done and rig up a rope and pulley system. Which is not cost no object – I know, I’ve done it myself and would much prefer a machine that preserves complete freedom of movement that I can just drop the dumbbells into at the start of the set .

I’ve read on this thread about racks for premade curl bars. There is nothing inherently ‘cost no object’ about a rack you put premade curl bars on. But if you have a home gym and can afford the luxury of taking up space purely so you don’t have to change weights between sets of curls or whatever, than having a rack of premade curl bars is cost no object right?

I’d love to have a machine like this that serves no other purpose, sitting across from my dumbbell rack.

There is a guy who made what looks to be a pretty neat dumbbell spotting machine. He only built it for himself and he was searching for a company to license and build it a while back. He or someone else may have even posted it a few years ago on this forum.

[mck1212]

Thanks for that Outclast, the guy's name is Darrell Greenland, I attached a pic of his setup but with under 50 posts they don't show up as imbedded so they're easy to miss.
I've actually tracked down as many photos of his setup and the Tuff Stuff as I can, because I figure my chances of HealthNut or anyone else being able to find one, and me actually being able to get it over to Aus are pretty remote.
It's probably going to be cheaper to make one/get one made. What I liked about Darrell's is you can start the movement at the top, like with a powerhook or dumbbell bench. I'd just really like to be able to demo his and the Tuff Stuff to work out what works and what doesn't for me before going to the trouble of getting one fabricated.

That is an excellent piece. I used this machine several times when I would train using Vince Girondas 8x8 for presses. Extremely safe and smooth really nice feel. I have only seen this at one gym (golds gym in deer park NY) and not sure if they even have it anymore. I really liked to use it going heavier and sticking with a challenging weight. This is the only tuff stuff machine I have used that I highly recommend.

Thanks for that TLynch. Can you remember anything else you liked or didn't about the movement? Anything you'd change if you were designing it yourself?How did having the pivot point beside you feel?

Mainly though can you confirm there is no way to start at the top of the movement?

I found a new photo the other day when I was looking for a better angle shot of the dumbbell cups, and only just realised that it must have been counterbalanced. The pulley's are normally hidden behind shielding in the other photo's I've seen. I thought for a sec that it looked like it had a way to start at the top, but I think that is just the couterbalance holding it up above the safeties. I've attached the photo I mean below as "power spot (2)"
How important do you think the counterbalance is? (I understand if you don't have an opinion on all this!)

I'd really like to know if there is any difference in the feel of having the pivot point closer to you (TuffStuff) or behind you a couple of feet (Darrell's), but I guess I'm going to have to use my imagination on that one.

I really prefer the design of the dumbbell cradles on the Tuff Stuff (1st picture) that clamps over the dumbbell. It's got a wide groove or mouth for you to place the dumbbell in the cradle, and it allows you to hold the dumbbell by the handle as you seat it in the cup. On Darrell's PowerSpot you have a cradle similar in design to power hooks - there is a straight piece (in this case 2/3 pipe) joining the two hooks that you grip when you press to ensure that the dumbbell stays fixed to the cup and arm. With powerhooks I've always felt this was awkward - esp if your dumbbells have a non straight ergo handle. See photo "powerspot-self-spotting-machine-darrell hook" below to see what I mean. With this design you have to hold the dumbbells by the ends to place them in the cradle which is awkward, and the 'mouth' of the cradle is narrower too, which is not as forgiving.

I'm getting a new shiny rack of rubber dumbbells and I'd love to get this made for when they arrive. I'll have to combine the best of both these designs and see what I can come up with.
Any ideas or suggestions are welcome.

[HITFan]

I've been waiting almost 3 months now to post the David review because of some concerns with the transaction and some other issues.

In any case, I have a big update today.

First I'd like to start off with what I consider to be David's best machine, an A++ in my book. The Rowing Torso. The Rowing Torso is essentially a reverse Pec Dec. This feels much different than a rear delt machine. You really get some serious rhomboid work with this machine. The shoulders are externally rotated, just like a pec deck. There is no machine quite like this, and I think it has to be significantly better than the Nautilus version.


A++, a truly special machine, and so far the Flagship piece of the David Line in my opinion.

I took the REHAB version of this machine with a 100 KG weight stack. With David machines, you absolutely, positively need the heaviest stack possible with all of their machines. If possible, ask them to see if they can go to 120 KG if making a future order with them. David machines one weakness is they need max weight stacks. Perhaps it will be possible, if needed, to use a REGENERATION type of add-on weight horn in addition to the 100 KG stack.

What about a machine offered by Panatta Sport? Plate loaded rear delt fly. I would assume it is comparable or would be even better for the purpose. Have you ever demoed that one?

[HealthNutMD]

What about a machine offered by Panatta Sport? Plate loaded rear delt fly. I would assume it is comparable or would be even better for the purpose. Have you ever demoed that one?

1) That is interesting you mention a plate loaded rear delt fly:

a) They don't seem to be common by anyone

b) The strange part is that Panatta is working on a prototype and coming out with just such a machine very soon. Not the reat delt machine that I have shown pictures of, that is different. But yes, now I know which Panatta model you are talking about: I showed a picture of it. I did not like it, however, it is possible that it could be one of those machines that you need to spend a lot of time with before appreciating it... nonetheless, the little bit I used it did not impress me. Also that is not a reverse pec dec like the David Rowing torso, not even close.

That being said Panatta is working on a plate loaded Rear delt/pec fly. I'll be curious to see it but I already have the selectorized Atlantis

c) I already have an Atlantis rear delt/pec fly selectorized which I think is the best rear delt/pec fly machine "of that specific type" The Atlantis is also selectorized which is more convenient. I'll have to see this Panatta machine when it comes out.

d) The David Rowing torso puts you in complete external rotation, like a pec dec. The rowing torso *is* a reverse pec dec: there is no other machine that is configured with pads like that... In fact, I don't believe it is truly anything like the old nautilus version. The pads, motion path, everything about the rowing torso is amazing... Really is the flagship machine of the David line in my opinion.

[HITFan]

1) That is interesting you mention a plate loaded rear delt fly:

a) They don't seem to be common by anyone

b) The strange part is that Panatta is working on a prototype and coming out with just such a machine very soon. Not the reat delt machine that I have shown pictures of, that is different. But yes, now I know which Panatta model you are talking about: I showed a picture of it. I did not like it, however, it is possible that it could be one of those machines that you need to spend a lot of time with before appreciating it... nonetheless, the little bit I used it did not impress me. Also that is not a reverse pec dec like the David Rowing torso, not even close.

That being said Panatta is working on a plate loaded Rear delt/pec fly. I'll be curious to see it but I already have the selectorized Atlantis

c) I already have an Atlantis rear delt/pec fly selectorized which I think is the best rear delt/pec fly machine "of that specific type" The Atlantis is also selectorized which is more convenient. I'll have to see this Panatta machine when it comes out.

d) The David Rowing torso puts you in complete external rotation, like a pec dec. The rowing torso *is* a reverse pec dec: there is no other machine that is configured with pads like that... In fact, I don't believe it is truly anything like the old nautilus version. The pads, motion path, everything about the rowing torso is amazing... Really is the flagship machine of the David line in my opinion.

Good points, I never had a chance to try either of them. One thing I can tell you for sure is that I seriously dislike any kind of pectoral movement that involves a grip. I had a better feeling with Nautilus 10 degree chest and similar "gripless" chest machines. David does seem to fall into that category since you are pushing with your elbows.

I was very much interested in their behind the neck machine. It was in original Nautilus lineup, the benefit of the machine that it cuts out the week link, biceps, stimulating the lats directly.
I was also surprised that their rotary shoulder machine was not great, Nautilus 2ST rotary shoulder is a great machine.

[HealthNutMD]

Good points, I never had a chance to try either of them. One thing I can tell you for sure is that I seriously dislike any kind of pectoral movement that involves a grip. I had a better feeling with Nautilus 10 degree chest and similar "gripless" chest machines. David does seem to fall into that category since you are pushing with your elbows.

Yes, it is exactly like a pec dec in reverse. The David Rowing Torso is unlike any other machine on the market. The pads, the shoulder external rotation, etc. It really hits the rhomboids in a unique and focused manner.

I was very much interested in their behind the neck machine. It was in original Nautilus lineup, the benefit of the machine that it cuts out the week link, biceps, stimulating the lats directly.

Yes, I was also interested in demoing the David Rotary Lat machine for that reason. I'm sure Big Feather can take more pictures of it an a video maybe. He has been doing a great job of documenting his machines with videos. The only thing that might be said about the rotary lat is that it might be hard to use with heavy weight. I see this only as a finishing exercise at the end of a lat workout. I agree there is massive appeal to cutting out the biceps and working the lats directly, but the somewhat 'awkwardness' (for lack of a better word) of the design may limit the appeal to some degree. Apparently it is easy to lose form on that machine with heavier weight. I look forward to try it at Big Feather's gym.

I was also surprised that their rotary shoulder machine was not great, Nautilus 2ST rotary shoulder is a great machine.

The latest version of the Strive lateral raise with the "circular" pads blows the hell out of all other lat raise machines. There were quite a few changes made with the recent version, all of them positive.

[HITFan]

The latest version of the Strive lateral raise with the "circular" pads blows the hell out of all other lat raise machines. There were quite a few changes made with the recent version, all of them positive.

Speaking of Strive, they used to have an awesome pullover machine with adjustable cam, no idea why they decided to discontinue that machine. But I guess our uninformed popular culture drives the choice of poorly informed individuals who believe that pullover machine is useless, I heard it so many time, in fact way too many times.

[coach_ras]

Hi all,

Ran across these two plate loaded machines in a craigslist ad down in Boise... They are asking $1500/each. I've decided to take pass- as my focus is mainly on picking up as many MedX Avenger and Pendulum pieces that I can find-afford as well as a few Nautilus Power Plus and Hammer Strength pieces.

http://boise.craigslist.org/spo/4199891743.html

[deadwoodgregg]

Got to demo the Strive plate load leg press today. I wish that I had more time to spend on this machine. Really nice machine that I will probably pick up someday if I find a used one at an agreeable price.

The gym had this Strive leg press, an Avenger leg press, a Nebula 35 degree leg press, multiple PowerLift unilateral 45 degree leg presses and full body squats, a Nebula vertical leg press, and an original Pendulum power squat , and three different brands of belt squats.

[Renzinho]

Got to demo the Strive plate load leg press today. I wish that I had more time to spend on this machine. Really nice machine that I will probably pick up someday if I find a used one at an agreeable price.

The gym had this Strive leg press, an Avenger leg press, a Nebula 35 degree leg press, multiple PowerLift unilateral 45 degree leg presses and full body squats, a Nebula vertical leg press, and an original Pendulum power squat , and three different brands of belt squats.

Gregg, how would you rate the strive legpress? Have you tried the Atlantis pivot press or the cybex one, and how do they compare in that case?

[deadwoodgregg]

Gregg, how would you rate the strive legpress? Have you tried the Atlantis pivot press or the cybex one, and how do they compare in that case?

I have never seen an Atlantis pivot press. I like the Strive better than the Cybex, but many people seem to like the Cybex (more familiar with it). Chris and I were discussing that there are many quality leg presses out there. It is interesting that the above gym has a ton of the best of the best equipment discussed in this thread and it has been around since before this thread started.

[HealthNutMD]

The Strive Leg Press is a very good leg press and should be on the cost no object list in the runner up category. I give it an A/A-

I have tried the Strive Plate loaded leg press a few times, however, I do not think it is as good as the Atlantis Pivot Press.

Yes, there are a lot of 'good' leg presses on the market. In my rank order list, it is just too far down to purchase the Strive (but yes, it belongs on the list as a (runner-up leg press). If I was to buy another leg press, it would have to offer something unique. The Strive does offer some strength curve adjustment which is one of the cool things about that leg press.

Oops, I forgot the Strive has already been on the runner up list:


============================================


TOP-TIER:

Atlantis Pivot Press
Atlantis Hack Squat machines
Atlantis 40 degree Leg press (with modified wide foot plates)
Atlantis Power Squat (modified additional wide foot plate surface)

MedX Avenger Leg Press

Nebula Vertical leg press

Randy Coyle Swing Squat

Rogers Athletic Power Squat Pro
Rogers Athletic Pendulum Hip Press


Runner-ups:

Cybex Plate loaded Leg Press
Elite FTS Mondo 45 degree Leg press
Nebula 35 degree leg press
Nebula 45 degree Leg Press
Power-Lift Pro Plate Load Uni-Bi Lateral Leg Press
Rogers Athletic Seated Squat Pro
Strive Plate loaded leg press
UCS adjustable 35-45 degree leg press (difficult to find demo)


=============================================


What I personally own:


Atlantis Pivot Press (modified width of footplate surface)
Atlantis 40 degree Leg press (modified width of foot plate surface)
Atlantis Power Squat (modified width of foot plate surface)
MedX Avenger Leg Press
Rogers Athletic Pendulum Hip Press
Rogers Athletic Power Squat Pro


If I were to get another leg press, I doubt it would be a linear leg press because I am 100% satisfied with the Atlantis is 40 degrees and I think it is ideal (with the wide footplate mod). I think the Elite FTS (Williams Strength) Mondo leg press is cool, but to be honest, I don't think I would use the Iso lateral feature of the Elite FTS Mondo (or the Power-Lift Iso lateral capable linear leg press).

The Pendulum seated Squat Pro seems to be a more interesting piece for iso-lateral/dual capability. Obviously there is a strength curve built into the Pendulum seated squat Pro as well, more difficult as you get towards the end. I'm not saying that is necessarily good or bad... A linear leg press is just different in the fact that it has a linear strength curve. Again, I think it just goes back to the fact that I'm not seeing the isolateral feature of a linear leg press as useful.

Speaking of unilateral/bilateral capable, I'd strongly consider the Power-Lift Full body squat for any sports performance gym. You can also do Explosive movements on that Full Body Squat... If you haven't tried explosive movements on the full body squat machine, you truly haven't demoed it. If I were Coach RAS, I'd keep an eye out for a FULL BODY SQUAT.... I think it is a must have for SPORTS PERFORMANCE facilities. I see I forgot to add that to the cost no object list... that has to be added.

If I were to purchase another leg press machine, it would have to offer something unique or worthwhile over what I already have. I'd say if I had to get another leg press it would be one of the following:


Rogers Athletic Seated Squat Pro
Randy Coyle Swing Squat (will have to demo at Big Feather's gym)
Nebula Inverted leg press
Power-Lift Full Body Squat

Those would be the next 4 leg presses I would pick up. I'm not sure in what order I would rank them per se because they are simply different

[deadwoodgregg]

I'd strongly consider the Power-Lift Full body squat for any sports performance gym. You can also do Explosive movements on that Full Body Squat... If you haven't tried explosive movements on the full body squat machine, you truly haven't demoed it.

You mean like this:







A true cost no object, space no object machine.

Sorry about pic quality, the lighting was terrible.

[HealthNutMD]

Hehe.... Yes, that looks like it might be a first gen power-Lift Full Body Squat... I know they made some revisions, but I'd have to inquire on what the different versions have changed (or not).

Again, you can do so much with that Full body squat. I was really impressed with the explosive jumps you can do on that machine. Love the band attachments, huge foot plate, etc... takes all the pressure off the low back. Every sports performance facility should have one of these.

[irongym]

http://alberta.kijiji.ca/c-buy-and-s...AdIdZ547218808

Take a look at the "I bar". Looks interesting. Everything else looks generic.

[irongym]

This might be worth looking at for some, a couple Nautilus One pieces:

http://alberta.kijiji.ca/c-buy-and-s...AdIdZ534444228