Cost No Object Machines and Free Weights, the Best of the Best

[Cleveland33]

I'm sure they "can", but how likely is it that the same person continues to create multiple new accounts for the purpose of bashing one person.... from 10+ different computers or IP addresses? Possible, but unlikely.

it's actually pretty common when anonymous a-holes get a beef online. I mod a semi-private football forum and we still get inundated with trolls. You start banning them and they decide they want to be a bigger nuisance.

[harrisg83]

That's probably what he wants. This is an awesome thread and really the only reason I come here. Why should he win?

The other easy solution is just to lock this thread and be done.

[nflan113]

That's probably what he wants. This is an awesome thread and really the only reason I come here. Why should he win?

This, I've built my gym (and most of my bob.com friends) from the great guys in this thread. It would a real loss to see this thread closed. It is already tough to see this troll flame Chris for no reason. Sad really...

[VoxExMachina]

Nobody is closing the thread.

Just don't assume that the mods aren't doing their best to get rid of the trolls. We've deleted dozens of posts ITT, handed out bans, even IP banned. And we will continue to do so - just report them.

[JEROMESIMONNET]

That's probably what he wants. This is an awesome thread and really the only reason I come here. Why should he win?

I love this thread because it allows me see machines that I will never see in Europe.
I do not create fake accounts. I use only one. If you go to my youtube channel, you will see that I have almost 800 videos of myself, so I am not hiding.
I was just giving my opinion about Panatta. Saying it is a good brand is just like saying McDonalds is serving the best food ever. It is the cheapest european brand. It used to be head to head with Technogym some 20 years ago. Now, you can see Technogym all over the world. Why did not Panatta expand as well as technogym did? If you do not beleive me (which I can understand), just talk to the used machine resellers about Panatta... Instead of attacking me do some researches about this brand...

[daniel327]

When you know how to modify a machine like this and own a personnal gym like mine, you can call me a troll
http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showth...hlight=h-squat

Based on the pictures in that thread, it seems you have confused the word modify with debaucher.

[HealthNutMD]

The Super Incline is now up on the Panatta website. The Super Horizontal is getting the finishing touches for redesign for disassembled frames, neutral grips, and the new method for the footbar.

Each machine will hold at least 7, 45 lb plates per side. The steel used in the XP free weight line is 4mm thick, which is just under 7 gauge. Trolls will be trolls.

The list of changes and improvements over the prototype shown earlier will be made available shortly. The final production machine is vastly improved over the prototype. Even the materials used in the production run are different. Panatta has the confidence to release a prototype at a show to obtain feedback for purposes of refining the machine before release.

Once the selcted panatta machines *on the cost no object thread* hit the US, people will love them.

[rpark]

BTW, I for one do appreciate input in this thread from all, including Jeromesimmonet, as contrasting opinions are part of what makes these best of the best debates interesting. Thanks again to all those that make this an awesome thread.

[Agathomax]

I was just giving my opinion about Panatta. [...] It is the cheapest european brand.

I'm still a little puzzled by this statement. Specially when I read the second part:

It used to be head to head with Technogym some 20 years ago. Now, you can see Technogym all over the world. Why did not Panatta expand as well as technogym did?

What allows you to say such a thing?, I mean, what European brands would you classify before to Panattasport in terms of quality?

I think we do not use the same judging criterias.

Concerning specifically the free weight line, which this thread up to the pinnacle, I couldn't say if Panatta is the best European brand, (I lack elements of comparison with severals other brands like Watson gym Equipment, Schnell, HBP (hbp-gmbh.de) Gervasport, Pallini, Multiform, Design corporel, Metalsport/Power-fit etc) but for sure, Technogym is a 1000 miles away from Panatta in terms of biomecanical efficiency. Period. Just look at the poverty of the range diversity in freeweight equipment from Technogym compared with the Panatta FW line show how many Technogym lack of interest in this type of equipment. (Commercially it may be a good thing, but you've understood that is not a criteria in this thread.)

I couldn't say the same thing with their pulley equipment, maybe there's some good things currently. I have a 15+ years Technogym Leg extension fully ajustable with a 120kg chromed stack whose I'm fully satisfy, more than the Panatta which I once owned.


So if your argument consist to say that "Panatta is a poor brand because technogym sells more worldwide", I'm not sure you've got the point of this thread...

[JEROMESIMONNET]

Many brands you mentioned, I do not even consider pro level (if I can break it quickly, it is not pro level for me). I would mention Gym 80 or David as superior brands.
Look at the new Panatta, many are merely copies of Technogym.
As mentioned earlier, I use to own 3 panatta, so I know where the structural flaws are. I still see these flaws on the new models as they are build exactly are the old models.

[HealthNutMD]

I'm still a little puzzled by this statement. Specially when I read the second part:



What allows you to say such a thing?, I mean, what European brands would you classify before to Panattasport in terms of quality?

I think we do not use the same judging criterias.

Concerning specifically the free weight line, which this thread up to the pinnacle, I couldn't say if Panatta is the best European brand, (I lack elements of comparison with severals other brands like Watson gym Equipment, Schnell, HBP (hbp-gmbh.de) Gervasport, Pallini, Multiform, Design corporel, Metalsport/Power-fit etc) but for sure, Technogym is a 1000 miles away from Panatta in terms of biomecanical efficiency. Period. Just look at the poverty of the range diversity in freeweight equipment from Technogym compared with the Panatta FW line show how many Technogym lack of interest in this type of equipment. (Commercially it may be a good thing, but you've understood that is not a criteria in this thread.)

I couldn't say the same thing with their pulley equipment, maybe there's some good things currently. I have a 15+ years Technogym Leg extension fully ajustable with a 120kg chromed stack whose I'm fully satisfy, more than the Panatta which I once owned.


So if your argument consist to say that "Panatta is a poor brand because technogym sells more worldwide", I'm not sure you've got the point of this thread...

Excellent post. I try hard not to feed the trolls, but sometimes it is hard to bite my tongue.

How many times do we have to say "Talk about an individual machine, not a brand name" It is pointless to say one brand sucks vs another brand.

We do not install complete lines or brands of equipment. We do not have to chose one brand vs another. This thread is, and always will be about individual machines. However, on another note, look at how many machines on the cost no object list as from Panatta, and how many machines on the cost no object list are from Technogym, Hoist, and Life Fitness.

There are 14 machines, I believe (I have to check the list posted most recently) from Panatta on the list, many of which take the number one spot as best in the word.

Technogym and Hoist have none. Life Fitness has a Bosu ball leg raise, which qualifies as a bench, one the cost no object list.

To use your own analogy, McDonald's has puts its garbage all around the world in large volume. Technogym would be a better comparison to McD's. Let me know when Technogym makes something on the cost no object list. I would welcome any company to make a homerun, breakthru machine... It would be wonderful if Technogym, Hoist, or Life Fitness could make anything new or worthwhile. The goal here is to find the best of the best... those companies aren't making any machines that are best of the best (unless you consider the Hammer Strength machines as part of Life Fitness. Even then, we have seen how few Hammer Strength machines are on the list). Life Fitness bought Hammer Strength and just sat on that line... completely unwilling or incapable of improving the Hammer Strength line.

On yet another note, The few technogym plate loaded pieces they make are clones of Hammer equivalents for the most part... equal or worse than the Hammer equivalent.

To further discuss Panatta, just look at the innovation displayed in the redesign footbar. The Panatta crew came up with that new super incline from scratch, and did it in 6 months... completely came up with a new design. Not only that, what other companies are using footbars these days? Footbars are costly, and expensive features to machines. Footbars allow for max prestretch, and are features found in David Machines, Med-X, Nautilus, and very few others.

Panatta is currently applying the new footbar mechanism to the Super Horizontal bench. This redesign will take approximately 4 more weeks. The Super Incline Bench final version has been released and now ready for shipping.

http://www.panattasport.com/en/product/1HP533.html

[HealthNutMD]

Look forward to getting some videos on the current release version. (especially not ones from people that purposefully try to make a prototype look 'squirrely')


http://www.panattasport.com/en/product/1HP533.html



FEATURES:

SEAT WITH ASSISTED GAS ADJUSTMENT

AUTOMATIC EASY ENTRY SYSTEM FRONT THE TOP

INDEPENDENT EXERCISE ARMS

ADJUSTABLE LIMIT

TOTALLY DISMOUNTABLE FRAME

[dumb.bell]

We do not install complete lines or brands of equipment. We do not have to chose one brand vs another. This thread is, and always will be about individual machines. However, on another note, look at how many machines on the cost no object list as from Panatta, and how many machines on the cost no object list are from Technogym, Hoist, and Life Fitness.

There are 14 machines, I believe (I have to check the list posted most recently) from Panatta on the list, many of which take the number one spot as best in the word.

Technogym and Hoist have none. Life Fitness has a Bosu ball leg raise, which qualifies as a bench, one the cost no object list.

There maybe 14 pieces of Panatta on your list (or whoever wants to claim this list), but this is not a universal list that everyone agrees on. My list might have some pieces in common, but it likely wouldn't be any of the Panatta. I haven't used all of the pieces you have used, but I've yet to run across a piece of Panatta that would get anywhere close to my list. My list would also have quite a few pieces of Life Fitness, Icarian, Magnum, Bodymaster, Cybex and Nautilus (new and old) that are not on your list. There is a difference in a troll and someone who just disagrees. However, disagreement isn't received well in this thread, and that is the reason a lot of people refrain from contributing.

[JEROMESIMONNET]

it likely wouldn't be any of the Panatta.

strange! You do not like their sense of humor? Here is the warming sign they placed on their lastest leg press

[STR8OUT]

I love this thread, but I agree every person will have a different list. Mine would include a piece of Hoist and Technogym.

I have always considered the Hoist CF-2165 the best FID bench ever made. It's 145 lbs of pure awesomeness. And I've tried pretty much every bench. Also Technogym makes the sturdiest and quietest treadmill I've ever ran on. The Run 900 Excite treadmill is a 430 lb tank. I've had literally every brand of commercial treadmill come through my barn (Nautilus, Stairmaster, Life Fitness, Landice, Precor, Star Trac, Cybex, Woodway, True, Bodyguard, etc). The Technogym looks like a Mercedes engine under the hood too. So I'd put it on the top of the treadmill list.

I have yet to try any Panetta piece but Chris can be sure that I'll be stopping by his house when he gets this shipment in. I am at our house in Fort Lauderdale 6-10 times per year so hopefully soon. Flying down this weekend actually woohoo. I hope the move and house hunting has been going well.

[dumb.bell]

I have always considered the Hoist CF-2165 the best FID bench ever made.

I agree and if I ever find one near me, I will definitely purchase it. I have the one that doesn't decline. It is still a very good bench, but I'd like to have the decline version.

[OutKlast]

I love this thread, but I agree every person will have a different list. Mine would include a piece of Hoist and Technogym.

Midway through this thread Chris did try to get everyone to post up their own "best of the best" lists along with what equipment you own / opinions on those pieces and so-on. It's a huge thread though so I think some people missed it. I have posted in this thread that I liked the Hoist cf-2179 (5* increments from -10 to 30 awww yesss) and nobody jumped on me about it. I think some people may be taking this thread a bit too seriously.

[Agathomax]

strange! You do not like their sense of humor? Here is the warming sign they placed on their lastest leg press

It's 110kg/240Lbs on EACH upper short horns. On main horns you can upgrade a lot more. The press is tested with 900kg with a 300.000 cycle.
panattasport.com/en/product/freeweight.html

...and sold to be max used with 670kg.

panattasport.com/en/product/1HP586.html

I use a 45° Leg press Panatta from 2002 that was already been frequently charged with more than 500Kg (10 x 25kg plates on each side) and the bearing system still roll perfectly.

[HealthNutMD]

A lot of people talked positively about that hoist bench. A bench is not the same as a machine in regards to my prior statement. A bench is a bench.

There is a leg press talked well about from Technogym, however, leg presses are very competitive on the best of the best list. Leg presses seem to be one of the most abundant choices that many companies do a good job with. That being said the leg presses on the best of the best list really do stand out and quite a few are already listed there.

I'm not trying to force opinions down anyone's throat. Much of the list is a consensus opinion from those participants here. At the same time, I don't think it's fair to have negative opinions on products you haven't tried. My question is that if you haven't even tried 50% of the machines on the list, why be so negative about the list? if you went out and took the time to try all these machines, perhaps your list with change also. I know certainly my list changed as time progressed as I was able to spend time with all of these machines.I would like to think that they are hard earned educated opinions. I have no doubt that if you spent time on all of these machines that your list would change as mine has changed as well. Nobody's list would be identical but I can guarantee you it would be a lot different than your current list would be now. This list is nearly a guide. If you see pieces on the cost no object list that you like, it certainly gives a nice guide to other pieces that should be explored.

And someone points to a negative review on a panatta leg press. What is the point? Panatta makes hundreds of machines spread out over multiple lines. Only 14 machines are on the cost no object list from Panatta. That being said, that's one of the highest number of machines from any one company.

[dumb.bell]

I didn't mean to come across as negative regarding the list, and as a guide I think it is great. I also appreciate all of the effort you have put in regarding documenting your efforts. I also agree that my list would likely change if I were able to demo more of the machines. I was simply pointing out that peoples opinions will differ, some based on their body structure and others simply due to preferences and/or biases. I'll agree that I am somewhat negative on Panatta and Technogym. Neither of them fit my body in the manner I prefer. I'll also admit that my experience with Panatta is somewhat limited, although I have seen and played with some of the newer line at an Expo and I've stayed in Hotels with some of the more recent equipment as well as owning and having tried quite a bit of the older stuff. In general, they just haven't impressed me. Does that mean they are not good machines? No, it simply means I don't like them. They might very well be on a lot of people's list as some of the best. I workout with a guy on a regular basis and our opinions differ quite a bit on which machines should be used for a workout. We generally try to mix things up since we have different preferences.

[ndmike99]

I have no doubt that if you spent time on all of these machines that your list would change as mine has changed as well. Nobody's list would be identical but I can guarantee you it would be a lot different than your current list would be now.

Chris,

I don't think anyone is being negative about the list in general, but I think sometimes you are so proud of your list (and rightfully so) that you glaze over the fact that it is just one man's list and opinions may vary, even greatly sometimes. Even if dumb.bell went out, tried every piece on the list it is still very possible his opinions may stay the same. After all this entire thread is simply opinion and no 2 people are built the same.

For example I owned the hammer mid row. It was an okay piece. I gave it ample opportunity but never really loved it. I recently tried the Hammer D.Y. row again and felt like it was a much superior piece and replaced it.

Also, I have never liked the pivot leg presses like the Cybex and Atlantis. I know others love them, but I would never want one in my gym.

I think this thread is a great tool and I hope you continue posting and with your great work, but to say the Panatta pieces are far superior is just an opinion. Even if they are better built that does not mean the mechanics of them on an individual by individual bases would be superior to say a similar older Body Master piece.

[HealthNutMD]

I hope the move and house hunting has been going well.

Everything is arranged, just have to get the closing date asap. It will be great to have you compare all these pieces in the CNO list side by side. It has been a brutal couple of months. Probably going to be crazy until end of June. Will keep you updated.

[STR8OUT]

Everything is arranged, just have to get the closing date asap. It will be great to have you compare all these pieces in the CNO list side by side. It has been a brutal couple of months. Probably going to be crazy until end of June. Will keep you updated.

I look forward to it man! I hope it all goes smooth

[Josephbd]

Stay strong Chris and all the best. This thread has been very helpful with a lot of true field observation. Would be great to put all the equipment critiques pros and cons in a book.
Again thanks for all the thoughts, trials and errors guys!

[RandyMcdonald]

Chris,

I don't think anyone is being negative about the list in general, but I think sometimes you are so proud of your list (and rightfully so) that you glaze over the fact that it is just one man's list and opinions may vary, even greatly sometimes. Even if dumb.bell went out, tried every piece on the list it is still very possible his opinions may stay the same. After all this entire thread is simply opinion and no 2 people are built the same.

For example I owned the hammer mid row. It was an okay piece. I gave it ample opportunity but never really loved it. I recently tried the Hammer D.Y. row again and felt like it was a much superior piece and replaced it.

Also, I have never liked the pivot leg presses like the Cybex and Atlantis. I know others love them, but I would never want one in my gym.

I think this thread is a great tool and I hope you continue posting and with your great work, but to say the Panatta pieces are far superior is just an opinion. Even if they are better built that does not mean the mechanics of them on an individual by individual bases would be superior to say a similar older Body Master piece.

I think a better system going forward would be to either:

1. Rename this thread "Chris's best of the best".

or

2. Let each individual compile their own best of the best list here and articulate why through writing, pictures and video.

If you disagree with an item on someones list you are free to articulate why but there is no all knowing person with a "standard" body type and size that should definitively decide what is "Best of the best" for everyone else.

I have enjoyed this thread immensely but don't always agree with the opinions here based upon my own experience. Chris obviously feels certain pieces from Panatta are great. I have seen him discount some products/brands that I thought were great and kind of lump them together as not being innovative, quality or having the right "feel". I value Chris's opinion but have come to the conclusion his taste regarding "best of the best" does not always align with others including mine on this board. That said, he has brought some fantastic info to my attention of machines I was not aware of. Let's keep the info, pics, etc coming. Love to see what's out there and listen to why people feel they have found a winner!

[HealthNutMD]

there seems to be some purposeful misunderstandings here.

There is a personal list that I have and there is a cost no object list which is inclusive of everybody on this forum.

Those are two separate lists.

For example the DY row is on the cost no object list. Not something I own. tons of things on the Cost no Object List they were put on there because of input from other people and discussion we have had here. Personally I'd love to own every single piece on the cost no object list if I had the space or a commercial gym. I'd have a DY row as mentioned above for example.

As mentioned before, anyone can make a list and post it. It's been done by a few people.

Since I've included every single brand for the most part, or all of us have covered every single brand one way or another, feel free to post your list of equipment that you feel is best of the best and rank it however you like. Nobody is holding anyone back. Never have been.

So if you feel that something you like has been wrongfully put down, speak about it. Nobody else has a problem listing what they like and why. So what I'd like to hear is less complaining about my thoughts, and more posting about thoughts on individual machines.

Everybody has been expressing their opinions here since day one.

So instead of posting generic statements, let's stick to reviews of individual machines.

[RinkRat87]

I have probably read through the entire thread two or three times since I registered. This has been eye opening to me in so many ways, big thanks to Chris and everyone else who have contributed.

What about Power runners, are there one who stands out compared to others?

[STR8OUT]

Chris, I have the line on a few MedX pieces located in Florida up north by Palm Coast if you are interested. All MedX: Tricep $500, Abductor $750, Adductor $750, Rotary Torso $900, and he's also selling an Ab Core Pro and a Hammer Lateral Raise

[HealthNutMD]

Chris, I have the line on a few MedX pieces located in Florida up north by Palm Coast if you are interested. All MedX: Tricep $500, Abductor $750, Adductor $750, Rotary Torso $900, and he's also selling an Ab Core Pro and a Hammer Lateral Raise

Tricep sounds good.

[DoctorRemulak]

Chris, I have the line on a few MedX pieces located in Florida up north by Palm Coast if you are interested. All MedX: Tricep $500, Abductor $750, Adductor $750, Rotary Torso $900, and he's also selling an Ab Core Pro and a Hammer Lateral Raise

I'm interested in a Medx Tri if Chris passes on it.
Mike