Cost No Object Machines and Free Weights, the Best of the Best

[harrisg83]

Hope you guys don't mind if I change the subject matter of this thread for a moment. I've spent hundreds of hours studying nutrition and have graduate level training in the subject. Nutrition is a very controversial subject in general but one thing that I've learned that I'm very sure of...table sugar (sucrose) ages us and eventually kills us faster than pretty much any food substance out there and I'm not just talking about diabetes, although my father died of that very disease at the age of 57 so this is a subject I'm very passionate about. Anyway, this thread has been such a great resource in my quest for knowledge about fitness, specifically equipment I just wanted share a very strong belief of mine with you guys. Again, I hope you guys don't mind me sharing my beliefs and I welcome all of you to do your own research into the subject.

[Skyaura]

I love this thread. It is an opportunity to learn about some machines that I've never seen, and may not ever see. And I'm sure most of the machines on the list are really good. However, the consensus (if you want to call it that) is among a handful of people. You could get another dozen people to put a list together and it would have different machines. Neither list would necessarily be better than the other. That is the nature of picking the best of anything. People will disagree. For one, I don't think all Life Fitness machines are crap and I'd have a lot more Bodymaster on my list than you do.

Dumb.bell,

Certainly agree with you. I know I have said that most commercial equipment manufacturers, at least with their top line, have pretty good stuff. Thus my comment about cars. The midsize car market has a lot of good cars. Much of what you prefer is going to be based on subjective matters. Matrix and Life Fitness have taken some punches here, but like you, I don't think it is bad equipment. As far as that goes selectorized machines and to a lesser extent plate loaded, most seem to me to be decent pieces of equipment. Sometimes a certain piece of equipment particularly strikes me as being quite good and I will mention it. Case and point would be the Nebula Leg Press, which I have always liked.

[Skyaura]

Hope you guys don't mind if I change the subject matter of this thread for a moment. I've spent hundreds of hours studying nutrition and have graduate level training in the subject. Nutrition is a very controversial subject in general but one thing that I've learned that I'm very sure of...table sugar (sucrose) ages us and eventually kills us faster than pretty much any food substance out there and I'm not just talking about diabetes, although my father died of that very disease at the age of 57 so this is a subject I'm very passionate about. Anyway, this thread has been such a great resource in my quest for knowledge about fitness, specifically equipment I just wanted share a very strong belief of mine with you guys. Again, I hope you guys don't mind me sharing my beliefs and I welcome all of you to do your own research into the subject.

Harris,

Agreed and your post brings up the importance of nutrition and it's relationship with long term health.

[nflan113]

I understand very well your point BUT:
1. How many of the gym owners know anything about serious training? Most are just menagers in their companies or people with some money who decide fitness is a nice place for business. Me personally I have 21 years of bodybuilding so for me its easy to decide which machine I like and which I dont. I love all of the Hammer back pieces but ofcourse I have my favourite and its DY Row
2. Price No Object is OK but as gym owner I will Never Never buy Olympic flat bench for 2600EUR - the retail price of one of Panatta benches. Thats ridiculous!!!

I'm in agreement with much that has been said, so instead i'll just point out that I actually own the DY row and it is awesome to hear more praise for it. It is my favorite Hammer back piece as well, and compliments the rest of my setup.

On another note, I just got my Rogers order in, christmas time! Pictures and updates will follow.

[HealthNutMD]

I know I have said that most commercial equipment manufacturers, at least with their top line, have pretty good stuff.

most seem to me to be decent pieces of equipment.

This is not about fairly good, pretty good, adequate, etc. This is not about midsized cars. This thread has always been about seeking unique special machines that represent the best of the best of each type. I think you need to get out and experience more machines, or maybe you just are not that into them and that is fine. As much as I love free weights, there are unique and special machines out there that compliment a free weight workout.

This thread is not generic, it is very specific.

[HealthNutMD]

Hope you guys don't mind if I change the subject matter of this thread for a moment. I've spent hundreds of hours studying nutrition and have graduate level training in the subject. Nutrition is a very controversial subject in general but one thing that I've learned that I'm very sure of...table sugar (sucrose) ages us and eventually kills us faster than pretty much any food substance out there and I'm not just talking about diabetes, although my father died of that very disease at the age of 57 so this is a subject I'm very passionate about.

You open up a huge subject, one I am very passionate about. It would be hard not to take over this thread with such a discussion. Quality of fat is a huge issue. I try to get mine mainly from raw organic nuts, seeds, and wild caught fish. I eat tons of raw organic vegetables and beans with no salad dressing, that's how I prefer it. Vitamix is a great tool, love it. I eat some organic chicken, organic eggs, and fish, but mostly raw organic vegetarian salads with a variety of organic vegetables and beans.

Quality of fat is a huge issue. I eat oil free foods for the most part. Refined sugars of course is an issue, but if you are eating salad and beans, that's not going to be a problem.

For the vita-mix drinks, often use frozen pomegranate seeds mixed with Chia seeds, hemp seeds, sunflower, sesame. Trying to stay 2:1 Omega 3:6 ratio. There is an organic whey powder which is organic grass fed I mix with a few other organic powders I get from Whole Foods, but you can get them online. For the base liquid, I either use nonfat organic milk or unsweetened almond milk.

Bottom line, I eat the basics, raw, non-cooked much of the time.

[Skyaura]

This is not about fairly good, pretty good, adequate, etc. This is not about midsized cars. This thread has always been about seeking unique special machines that represent the best of the best of each type. I think you need to get out and experience more machines, or maybe you just are not that into them and that is fine. As much as I love free weights, there are unique and special machines out there that compliment a free weight workout.

This thread is not generic, it is very specific.

Healthnut,

I have probably experienced many more machines than you probably realize. When I am on the road, I have to work out with what is available. For those keeping score, the embassy in Senegal has Life Fitness for example. I have used equipment from Star Trac, Matrix, Magnum ( I know they were bought out), Precor, Power Lift, Legend, Keiser, Hammer Strength, Atlantis, Cybex, Sorinex, Nebula, Body Masters, Paramount, Tuff Stuff and MedX in the past couple of years. And, my opinion stands that most of the selectorized and plate loaded line strikes me as being pretty good. Very few pieces, however, stand out in my opinion.

Some of the pieces that you rave about, I find to be pretty good, but nothing extraordinary. There a few pieces that have particularly stood out and I have mentioned them. The Nebula Leg Press was one of those pieces. I really like the HS Squat/ Lunge for it's versatility. I think the Keiser Air300 Squat is an amazing piece of equipment, particularly in performance applications. So, maybe I may just be a little more demanding than you. Most of what you have mentioned is like the midsize car market to me. The Camry, Fusion, Accord, Sonata, Malibu, Altima, etc. All good cars, but none are a Corvette, M5 or 911. No, this thread is not about cars, but I used the car manufacturers as an analogy. That is the way I see most of the commercial strength equipment.

And yes, I am no doubt a confirmed free weight guy. I tend to come from the sports performance side of the equation. That probably does influence my evaluations. But, I do use the other stuff, in part, because sometimes that is all that is available. If you are looking for consensus on what you find is special, well you will not get that from me. I may or may not agree with you. For example, I know there are some who like the MedX Shoulder Press. That is great and I am glad they like it. It may be the Best of the Best in their and others opinion. It collected dust in our gym and was moved out. You know where I stand with most of their stuff anyway. And that goes back in this thread before anyone was talking about the MedX equipment.

My suggestion is Buyer Beware. Try it out before you buy it.

[HealthNutMD]

I'm in agreement with much that has been said, so instead i'll just point out that I actually own the DY row and it is awesome to hear more praise for it. It is my favorite Hammer back piece as well, and compliments the rest of my setup.

On another note, I just got my Rogers order in, christmas time! Pictures and updates will follow.

Looking forward to the pics, etc...

[HealthNutMD]

Tomorrow evening I will share my opinion about Panatta pieces

Look forward to your reply. Please take some pictures, detailed pictures if possible to share. LATS1968 has a lot of praise for those machines. Most important would be pictures along with detailed review of postive and negative aspects. Hope they have the whole Panatta plate loaded line, and as close to the current model as possible.

As Panatta mentioned, they upgrade their equipment regularly, so even a two year old piece, or one year old piece may not have the latest tweaks.

[HealthNutMD]

I didn't like any of the XPLOAD pieces, at least enough to consider purchase of them, but I suppose the XPLOAD dead-lift shrug could still be a contender because it has some unique features.

That being said not sure if anyone would have an interest in this piece:





Not sure if that is a good deal or not, but I know they are in brand new condition, including all of the urethane plates. I didn't demo the XPLOAD neck, so I have no opinion on it.


I guess you get all those plates and the XPLOAD neck

[joropower]

Look forward to your reply. Please take some pictures, detailed pictures if possible to share. LATS1968 has a lot of praise for those machines. Most important would be pictures along with detailed review of postive and negative aspects. Hope they have the whole Panatta plate loaded line, and as close to the current model as possible.

As Panatta mentioned, they upgrade their equipment regularly, so even a two year old piece, or one year old piece may not have the latest tweaks.

Hi,
So here are the results of my Saturday demo workout. The gym that was equipped with Panatta is situated in a Mall and its part of a brand of gyms owned by people who doesnt understand a thing about fitness - they just choose one brand and fill their gyms with both cardio and strength pieces from only one brand. As gym owner myself it was very strange for me that they dont even have a single workout option. People have to buy at least month membership to step into the gym. Anyway, I explained the girl at the reception that its impossible to become their member if I dont try them for a single workout. So they let me in for free. The gym SUCKS. Built without any idea or general plan. They have very few pieces from Panattas Freeweight line. I tried them all so here what I think about each machine.
1. Inclined Chest Press - Nothing special at all. Consider I have the Hammer Strength chest pieces in my gym, so compared with the Panatta machines I can say HS is slightly better. Better pumps my upper pecs. The prestretch option with the foot pedal doesnt make any difference for this machine.
2. High Row - Dont like it at all. Very strange path of motion. Pumped my back a bit but this machine is not "my cup of tea". HS High Row is much, much better.
3. Seated calf - Nothing special. For myself the best seated calf is the one from Precor Icarian where the seat is in from of the pivot so you lift also your own weight. Other companies situate the seat on top of the pivot and you can lift more weight but I like the feeling of Precor.
4. Dealtoid Press - Now thats a great piece. Maybe the best one I ever used. The back pad is moving forward and backward and can put yourself in the best working position. During the first warming sets I was sceptical because the backpand wabbles a bit but as the weight increased I felt in love with this machine. This one I will put in the near future in my gym.
5. Leg Press 45 degrees - Total crap. Max weight 350kg. No linear bearings. The foot platform wablles sideways. Big NO NO NO.
6. Abdominal Crunch - Nice machine. A bit strange I felt my abs working hard only when I put lots of weight on the machine.

The other two machines I demoed are from SEC line.
1. Tricep machine - nice one.
2 Calf machine - total crap.
From the Fit Evo line I demoed the Abdominal Isolator machine. Its just an abdominal bench so its OK.

So thats my experience wht Panatta for the moment. Only one machine I liked enough to want it for myself

[HealthNutMD]

Hi,
So here are the results of my Saturday demo workout. The gym that was equipped with Panatta is situated in a Mall and its part of a brand of gyms owned by people who doesnt understand a thing about fitness - they just choose one brand and fill their gyms with both cardio and strength pieces from only one brand.

Yes, many places like that here... Just looking for the lowest price possible to fill their gym with machines. They only care about the lowest price. I suppose there are many people who will go to those kind of gyms, just looking for the lowest price.

As gym owner myself it was very strange for me that they don't even have a single workout option. People have to buy at least month membership to step into the gym. Anyway, I explained the girl at the reception that its impossible to become their member if I don't try them for a single workout. So they let me in for free.

Haha, that is strange. Usually gyms charge 10.00-20.00 for a one day pass. Or like you said, they usually let you try the place free 1-3 days before deciding. 24 Fitness often gives 1 week passes to try.

The gym SUCKS. Built without any idea or general plan. They have very few pieces from Panattas Freeweight line. I tried them all so here what I think about each machine.

1. Inclined Chest Press - Nothing special at all. Consider I have the Hammer Strength chest pieces in my gym, so compared with the Panatta machines I can say HS is slightly better. Better pumps my upper pecs. The prestretch option with the foot pedal doesnt make any difference for this machine.

I will be anxious to the Power-Lift vertical chest and the Power-Lift Vertical Incline chest. From what I can tell, and also my experience with the Power-Lift Pro Plate load shoulder, it may be very well you should purchase items from the Power Lift plate loaded line. I have already booked an appointment for a one day tour and will end up spending the whole day because I have to go to Cleveland the next day.. and then leave from Cleveland to go to Europe.

From my information do far, you would be very happy with the Power-lift pro plate loaded pieces. The Panatta Incline chest was not on my purchase list. I guess I'll have to see who I like it. I'm not a fan of the Hammer vertical chest or incline chest. They are 'ok' just nothing I would want to purchase.

2. High Row - Dont like it at all. Very strange path of motion. Pumped my back a bit but this machine is not "my cup of tea". HS High Row is much, much better.

I did not think the Panatta high row would be of interest after looking at the video, but I will find out. I am much more curious about the Panatta Lat pulldown (that piece looks very good for the most part. I will get to try it shortly after the Power-Lift high row and lat pulldowns.., Power-lift has a few interesting high row and pulldown machines.

3. Seated calf - Nothing special. For myself the best seated calf is the one from Precor Icarian where the seat is in from of the pivot so you lift also your own weight. Other companies situate the seat on top of the pivot and you can lift more weight but I like the feeling of Precor.

Yes, the seated calf looked generic.

You reminded me... TJ Lynch and I have been working on a project for the last few moths. We have a TK star Seated calf project we have been working on. He is very busy with the academy right now, so will have to track down the photos of this project at some point soon.

4. Deltoid Press - Now that's a great piece. Maybe the best one I ever used. The back pad is moving forward and backward and can put yourself in the best working position. During the first warming sets I was skeptical because the backpad wobbles a bit but as the weight increased I felt in love with this machine. This one I will put in the near future in my gym.

Hahaha, oh no!! Looks like I will have another shoulder press in my gym!! That is good news though. Maybe I will have to sell my Atlantis shoulder press. Excellent news though. I look forward to trying it.

5. Leg Press 45 degrees - Total crap. Max weight 350kg. No linear bearings. The foot platform wablles sideways. Big NO NO NO.

That is a shame to hear because there are quite a few good linear leg presses on the market. It is hard to screw up a linear leg press. I still keep the Atlantis 40 degree leg press as my number one choice because it is very unique with its massive stainless steel tubes and nylon rollers. Either way, this is disappointing, but I could tell from the video that I would not be interested in the Panatta linear leg press.

6. Abdominal Crunch - Nice machine. A bit strange I felt my abs working hard only when I put lots of weight on the machine.

I am very interested in this machine... I will of course try it with a wide range of weights and especially heavy weight.

The other two machines I demoed are from SEC line.
1. Tricep machine - nice one.
2 Calf machine - total crap.
From the Fit Evo line I demoed the Abdominal Isolator machine. Its just an abdominal bench so its OK.

So thats my experience with Panatta for the moment. Only one machine I liked enough to want it for myself

Thank-you for your report, however, this is what I think:


The machines I am interested in most, unfortunately were not at that gym.

I am excited you like the Shoulder because that was not on my probably Panatta purchase list. So what you confirm to me is that you did not like the pieces that I did not want based on the pictures and videos.

My interest list from Panatta:

1) Super Horizontal Bench

2) Incline Flight machine

3) Vertical chest press

4) Lat Pulldown

5) Leg press 'Bridge' (Pivot Press)

6) Abdominal plate loaded machine

7) Low Row

8) Mid Row

9) Now I add the SHOULDER because of your great review!!!


There are many items of Panatta that are in need of review. It is unfortunate that this gym is so terrible they actually picked all the WORST pieces in the Panatta line (minus the shoulder and sec tricep)--clearly not so smart owners. I was hoping to hear about the pieces on my wish list.

Oh well... the good news is I will have lots of Pics from Power-Lift for you. I will also have detailed reviews on the Panatta pieces of Interest.

Another thing, the SEC line is the budget line... I'll be anxious to try their LUX line which is their top line.

[HealthNutMD]

Wanted to make another post because the Panatta Low Row, looks very interesting, and added that on my Panatta pieces of interest. The Panatta looks a lot like an IDA low row and does many things correct. The independent moving arms could be a very nice feature... or not... That is a must demo piece.

Will be interesting to compare the Nebula low row, Panatta Low Row, and Power-Lift Low Row.

Opps and forgot to add the Panatta Mid Row as well.

[Renzinho]

Here is what seems to be a good option for auto spot benches, an auto-spot "machine". I think it looks quite similar to what was being discussed previously in this thread, only difference may be the lack of a fixed bench

http://store.getstrength.com/gs-smar...to-spot-multi/

Seem to work well for standing dumbell presses as well.

[Jetigen]

Weight cpacaity of 350 lbs for the Steel Flex? Thats kinda lame if thats true (4) 45's a side is 360 lbs right there. The Steel Flex is probably a good 'budget' machine, but if somebody said, hey, you can have either one of these, which one do you want? I'm certain the Panatta is the cost no object selection.

SteelFlex machine has smaller footprint: 47 (L) x 43 (W) x 43 (H) vs Panatta's 59 (L) x 59 (W) x 45 (H). Something to consider if space is tight. Weight capacities are 350 lbs and 683 lbs respectively. Though Speed Flex is also listed with 500 lbs capacity on seller's site. I am attaching a pdf of Panatta's HP plated-loaded series with specs and pictures for easy look-up.

If I had more space left, I'd buy a used Hammer Strength D.Y. Row.

P.S. Can't rep you. I am on spread.

[deiphid]

When I was researching the steelflex plate loaded leg press I found that it was described with three different weight capacities - 500lbs, 1000lbs and 1500lbs. The 500lbs is the user cap, 1000lbs is the weight cap, which gives a total weight cap including user of 1500lbs.

My point is, check and double check the listed capacity, try looking at a few suppliers - steelflex isn't CNO stuff but it isn't exactly made of tinfoil and cardboard either.

[Jetigen]

When I was researching the steelflex plate loaded leg press I found that it was described with three different weight capacities - 500lbs, 1000lbs and 1500lbs. The 500lbs is the user cap, 1000lbs is the weight cap, which gives a total weight cap including user of 1500lbs.

My point is, check and double check the listed capacity, try looking at a few suppliers - steelflex isn't CNO stuff but it isn't exactly made of tinfoil and cardboard either.

There is very little info, no reviews, on SteelFlex plate-loaded line. My understanding it's made in Texas. And yes 11 gauge 2x4 steel tubing ain't tinfoil. Though Panatta Super Row is heavier by like 120lbs.

[HealthNutMD]

Hi,
So here are the results of my Saturday demo workout.

JOROPOWER:

I just wanted to re-iterate this based on my experience with the Power Lift Plate Load since you are happy with many of the Hammer Strength designs. Power-Lift used people from the Hammer Strength design team, including the lead guy, in the design of their equipment. As you notice, it is not surprising the designs are very similar. However, What Power-Lift did was give the design team a bigger budget per machine, and they were allowed to improve upon the Hammer strength designs. I had detailed discussions with one of the engineers and was very impressed by their knowledge, particularly physics.

http://www.power-lift.com/plateload-...equipment.html

Although Power-Lift does not make every Hammer Strength Equivalent, the machines that they do make are superior to the Hammer Strength model. The Pro Plate Shoulder is just amazing, much better than the Hammer Strength in every way. The lever arms are much longer on the Shoulder allowing for a much better motion path (it doesn't arc forward like the short arms of the Hammer). The convergence is spot on perfect, (the Hammer is slightly over converged). The seat is much better, the angles are better, the 2 grip positions are better... The Power Lift uses 7 guage steel and is 4" x 3" steel tubing. The machine has no wobble whatsoever... It was one of the best purchases I made.

I am going out to examine all of the machines, selectorized and plate loaded. I can tell from the picture and from what I've learned that the Low row should be a similar upgrade over the Hammer Low row. I look forward to compare the Panatta Low row, Nebula Low Row, and Power-Lift Low Row.

My point to you is that you mention you like the Hammer Strength Incline chest. I will wait until I go out there, but I can essentially guarantee that the Power-Lift incline chest and Vertical chest are significant improvements over the Hammer counterparts. If you are looking for new pieces, I would stronlgy consider them. Certainly I will have videos and details for you once I finish my visit to Power-Lift in Jefferson Iowa.

[HealthNutMD]

Here is what seems to be a good option for auto spot benches, an auto-spot "machine". I think it looks quite similar to what was being discussed previously in this thread, only difference may be the lack of a fixed bench

http://store.getstrength.com/gs-smar...to-spot-multi/

Seem to work well for standing dumbell presses as well.

That is an interesting design, somewhat like the REFLEX/Sorinex autospot in some regards... The problem that REFLEX was having is that the dumbbell holders and BAR holders have different weights, so it is hard to make an autospot that does well both. This is where I left of in my discussions with REFLEX. I need to get back to that design we were working on that allows for Dumbell holders and bar holders to work on the same unit.

[Renzinho]

That is an interesting design, somewhat like the REFLEX/Sorinex autospot in some regards...

Yes, that's definetly the source of inspiration.

[QUOTE=HealthNutMD;1104345453]
The problem that REFLEX was having is that the dumbbell holders and BAR holders have different weights, so it is hard to make an autospot that does well both [/QUTE]

Why would the different weights be an issue though?

Overall, i think the get-strength unit looks like a great and functional device. It would be nice though to have some storage for the dumbell/bar holders instead of just have to throw them on the floor. One contention that I have, however, is that the linkage bar between the two uprihts prevents usage of certain bench designs, such as the Atlantis 3 way bench. One must use a bench that is free underneath and that is elevated from the floor. I guess that sorinex could make it work for the nebula bench though, keeping the linkage bar as close to the ground as virtually possible.

[Renzinho]

Since the topic of lat pulldowns recently was brought up I thought it would be appropriate to bring up a piece that was discussed in the beginning of this thread again. The rogers monster lat pulldown. Someone remarked that the monster line bore some similarities with the hurricane which recieved some sharp critisism. I don't think that notion was totally unwarranted if the lat pulldown is seen, just as the purpose of the hurricane, as a multipurpose machine. Admittedly, some of the usage of the lat machine that was displayed in the video and the pictures of it seems utterly ludicrous. But in contrast with the hurricane, i believe that the multi-function of the lat pulldown, partly served as a marketing device and partly something like "hey, why not just flip in the seat and make the lat machine a multifunction machine while we're at it". But if the machine is taken for what it's labeled as, namely a lat machine, I think it definitely might be a hit. For one, Tyler Hobson has already done some respectable and innovative equipment. the construction looks as sturdy as any pendulum piece. both the seat and the thigh-pad are ajustable. And if the vertical pulling movement is biomechanically sound it will not only feel good, but, due to the free motion arms, may have a superior function than other biomechanically correct pulldowns due to the free-floating lever arms which possibly forces the muscles to recruit more muscle fibers.

[ndmike99]

That is an interesting design, somewhat like the REFLEX/Sorinex autospot in some regards... The problem that REFLEX was having is that the dumbbell holders and BAR holders have different weights, so it is hard to make an autospot that does well both. This is where I left of in my discussions with REFLEX. I need to get back to that design we were working on that allows for Dumbell holders and bar holders to work on the same unit.

You will notice if you watch the video they never show the user returning the dumbbells to the rack. I suppose you could drop them or lower them to the floor, but it would be awesome to have a foot lever that would bring the rack arms forward when you were done with the lift to make re-racking the dumbbells easier.

[Renzinho]

For anybody living in the ohio distrect, or is willing to make the trip, ther's an opportunity to try out the nebula IDA incline and shoulder press, the flat, incline and shoulder of the earlier nebula line, nautilus 1st gen pullover, magnum plate-loaded row (without swivel handles) and much more at powerstation gym http://powerstationgym.com/

[deadwoodgregg]

For anybody living in the ohio distrect, or is willing to make the trip, ther's an opportunity to try out the nebula IDA incline and shoulder press, the flat, incline and shoulder of the earlier nebula line, nautilus 1st gen pullover, magnum plate-loaded row (without swivel handles) and much more at powerstation gym http://powerstationgym.com/

They also have a Randy Coyle Swing Squat.

[deadwoodgregg]

I will clean it up and do a little cosmetic restoration (new pads and grips). It is not mint but is in very nice condition. Gripper, wrist pronation and supination, and wrist curls from both underhand and overhand positions. The 200lb. weight stack is a little light for the gripper, but I also have the Pendulum power grip pro.

[Renzinho]

They also have a Randy Coyle Swing Squat.

Ye they also have The Nebula vertical leg press, nebula low row (old version), nebula iso lateral and regular leg press, nebula leg extension, one of the old nautilus ab machines, nebula DB/BB row bench, nebula front pulldown (seemingly), you name it. Pretty nice set-up, the owner seem to know what he's doing. I wonder if they have the nebula IDA mid-row, seems like an interesting pieace as well. Can't remember what was said about it earlier, but many of the nebulas surley could be the best of their kinds

[LATS1968]

hey guys.. asking for a little help.. if any of you come across a hammer strength 10 degree fly or a nautilus plate loaded version 10 degree fly please contaqtc me.. i am on the look out.. found a few but they looked a bit rough.. i would even like to consider a medex version.. i am selling my XPLOAD chest press plate loaded and my nautilus pec fly / rear delt.. both are great pieces but after my last shoulder surgery i am looking to replace them.. i am looking for a medex chest press or the star trac chest press (decline)... anyway.. great thread.. just keeps going lol

[deadwoodgregg]

hey guys.. asking for a little help.. if any of you come across a hammer strength 10 degree fly please contaqtc me.. i am on the look out.. found a few but they looked a bit rough..

These are quite common. What city are you located?

http://macon.craigslist.org/spo/3931885034.html

This one has been listed for a while.

http://guruoffitness.com/

This guy has one.

http://barbellsales.com/plateloaded.html

I think Matt still has the one listed on his website.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Used-Commerc...item43bda079b6

Someone should buy this and retrofit it from chain drive to cable or belt. Looks just like the plateloader. I am betting that they would accept $400.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Nautilus-Nex...item2ec3dc8232

Terry is hard to deal with but I would offer $600 for this.

[LATS1968]

Thanks deadwood.. I did not come across a few of those.. Appreciate it.. Has anyone used the nautilus and the hammer and did you notice any real noticeable difference.?

[harrisg83]

[QUOTE=LATS1968;1104999253]hey guys.. asking for a little help.. if any of you come across a hammer strength 10 degree fly or a nautilus plate loaded version 10 degree fly please contaqtc me.

Any opinions out there on the Hammer Strength 10 degree fly? I've never demoed one but I've seen a few on ebay recently and wondered how it rates.