Cost No Object Machines and Free Weights, the Best of the Best

[matrix563]

That is a version of a substtute. I think using a dunbbell or a barbell might be more common. I am far from being an expert but I try not to pull with my hands on an actual pullover machine. I would push with my elbows.

i think i could hook my elbows in the bar somehow. i'll upload a vid with whatever i experiment with. would it be closer to the movement if i could do something like that? i thought about the dumbbell one but i keep picturing myself dropping it on my face .

[deadwoodgregg]

I seen pic of your pullover restoration Great work man. For me that original plate loaded spider cam pullover is the best. I would take that over anything made today I even like that better than the power pluss. I can only emagin how smooth it is now with out the chains. I have restored over 20 pieces the past few years I know how long it takes but it is a great feeling when its finnaly complete an you get to use it in your training.

Thanks TJ. I think the only difference between mine and the spider cam might be the shape of the cam which could make it alot different but I have not read that it was actually different anywhere. I would like to spend some time on the Medx and the Avenger sometime. I liked the Power Plus a little better than mine. There is a nice looking Power Plus pullover currently on Flsgstaff, Az. CRAIGSLIST for $300. I missed out on a Power Plus 4-way neck by dragging my feet this week.
One other note, there is alot of Powerlift and Hammer Strength pieces on govdeals in Iowa currently.http://for-sale.yakaz.com/nautilus-p...04m4b1pabgb96g

[matrix563]

any idea when tyler's will be ready to buy? .

good article:

http://tnation.t-nation.com/free_onl...r_alternatives
http://www.ironmanmagazine.com/pullo...ll-vs-machine/

[harrisg83]

I know I said I wouldn't do it but I just pulled the trigger on a new Avenger leg press that Ken and company are going to build. After that I'm going to take a break because this stuff is getting out of control expensive, plus I'm starting to run out of room in the new house already. Originally, I was going to buy a re-sale with a huge detached garage and a huge basement but that didn't pass inspection so I ended up buying a new home with a much smaller garage and basement. I do have about an acre of land so i have the option of building a polebarn or something similar for more equipment but that would be a few years down the road if ever. Anyway, I'm excitied to be adding a new Avenger leg press to my home gym in about 6 weeks time!

[HealthNutMD]

I know I said I wouldn't do it but I just pulled the trigger on a new Avenger leg press that Ken and company are going to build. After that I'm going to take a break because this stuff is getting out of control expensive, plus I'm starting to run out of room in the new house already. Originally, I was going to buy a re-sale with a huge detached garage and a huge basement but that didn't pass inspection so I ended up buying a new home with a much smaller garage and basement. I do have about an acre of land so i have the option of building a polebarn or something similar for more equipment but that would be a few years down the road if ever. Anyway, I'm excitied to be adding a new Avenger leg press to my home gym in about 6 weeks time!

Congrats! I am looking forward to the updates. The new boom design is very exciting (have not seen a picture of it yet). Hopefully they can figure out something with band attachments. That place you were looking at that didn;t pass inspection must have been huge. I can only dream of the possibility of a new house/land of that size. I suppose it depends where I end up finding a permanent job over the next year or so. Contract jobs are something you can't really buy a house with since moving is always a possibility. The good news is that Dave Goalder offers very reasonable rates for moving your entire home gym cross country. I love my current job, but I need stability before I can commit to any house. If I move to another state, well, at least I should be able to afford a house of my choice and build my dream 60L x 35W x 12-14H gym room.

Congrats again!! I'm sure you will be very happy!

[TLYNCH777]

I'd rather do dumbbell pullovers than what is shown there. That being said, no, is not comparable to a pullover machine im my opinion.

TLYNCH, Tyler is working on a new design Pendulum plate loaded pullover. I am hoping it will combine the best features of the various Nautilus pullovers. Maybe you should give him a call and give him feedback as well. I have been sending him my input on pullovers and also for the piece he is working on next after the pullover, the variable degree pec fly which I am also excited about. Lets hope tyler cam combine all the best features of the Nautilus pullovers, and also the Nautilus pec fly machines.

I have to say his new leg extension is not very inspiring.

Congrats on the Power Squat Pro! That is one unique bad-ass machine.

So you are getting the Shoulder/Chest/Incline pendulum as well?

I spoke with him just yesturday about it I am sending him a disk with serval photos of my power plus pullover . I can only emagin how good the one he makes will be. I have a lot of good ideas to make the pullover just right.

I am extreamly excited to have an avenger leg extension and leg curl coming very soon. I have yet to use the pendulum leg extension but I am sure that if Tyler made it that it will hit the quads just right.

The shoulder incline is on the wish list for the gym i work at hopefully in the future for sure. Ron Norman and I train together from time to time i used his for the upper cheat and loved it. Very similar feel to te nebula ida incline. I am a trainer and that sholder/ incline would be a great tool for me. I look forward to working off some of the other adjustments on it but that will have to wait. I do have tylers Original shoulder press on of the last ones he made where you can load weight to the front to assist and it's my favorite overhead press machine by far I would never get rid of it but it just is so massive.

[matrix563]

well this isn't the best and its not easy to get into, i'm going to find some kind of attachment thats better than this until i have the space for a pullover machine.

http://youtu.be/r9Zp0tI1oXg?t=51s

[TLYNCH777]

I know I said I wouldn't do it but I just pulled the trigger on a new Avenger leg press that Ken and company are going to build. After that I'm going to take a break because this stuff is getting out of control expensive, plus I'm starting to run out of room in the new house already. Originally, I was going to buy a re-sale with a huge detached garage and a huge basement but that didn't pass inspection so I ended up buying a new home with a much smaller garage and basement. I do have about an acre of land so i have the option of building a polebarn or something similar for more equipment but that would be a few years down the road if ever. Anyway, I'm excitied to be adding a new Avenger leg press to my home gym in about 6 weeks time!

Great Harris you better make time to use it weekly

[HealthNutMD]

I spoke with him just yesturday about it I am sending him a disk with serval photos of my power plus pullover . I can only emagin how good the one he makes will be. I have a lot of good ideas to make the pullover just right.

That sounds great. I sent him some pictures as well. I am glad you are giving him pictures and feedback.

I do have tylers Original shoulder press on of the last ones he made where you can load weight to the front to assist and it's my favorite overhead press machine by far I would never get rid of it but it just is so massive.

You think the new Rogers Athletic versions are any different than the original? I have the new shouler/incline/chest machine, but I was always curious to try the shoulder for comparison. I was unable to find one for demo.

[TLYNCH777]

That sounds great. I sent him some pictures as well. I am glad you are giving him pictures and feedback.




You think the new Rogers Athletic versions are any different than the original? I have the new shouler/incline/chest machine, but I was always curious to try the shoulder for comparison. I was unable to find one for demo.

It is very similar but Tyler used that nice soft foam and with the top load it's creates a diffent feel. The Handels are thinner and you also have the option of using a close grip that is great for one arm presses and ties the front delts in nice with the upper chest. The shoulder incline Is a home run so many options Rogers makes there stuff very well but the pieces that Tyler made himself are just powerfully built .
Well next time your in new York make your way to Long Island will get a workout in and you can demo all his original stuff. I will also introduce you to some of The TK star designs you will absolutely love them.

[harrisg83]

Thanks Chris!

Congrats! I am looking forward to the updates. The new boom design is very exciting (have not seen a picture of it yet). Hopefully they can figure out something with band attachments. That place you were looking at that didn;t pass inspection must have been huge. I can only dream of the possibility of a new house/land of that size. I suppose it depends where I end up finding a permanent job over the next year or so. Contract jobs are something you can't really buy a house with since moving is always a possibility. The good news is that Dave Goalder offers very reasonable rates for moving your entire home gym cross country. I love my current job, but I need stability before I can commit to any house. If I move to another state, well, at least I should be able to afford a house of my choice and build my dream 60L x 35W x 12-14H gym room.

Congrats again!! I'm sure you will be very happy!

[harrisg83]

Weekly TJ? You know how crazy my schedule is, don't you? Oh alright, I promise.

Great Harris you better make time to use it weekly

[harrisg83]

TJ, I'll think I'll finally take a trip up to your gym in Long Island in the near future. I've always wanted to try that older Pendulum shoulder press, didn't know you had it. It looks like it would work great and it must have a huge footprint from the videos' I've seen of it. I believe it's even larger than the current incline/shoulder, right? How do you like the Avenger leg curl?

It is very similar but Tyler used that nice soft foam and with the top load it's creates a diffent feel. The Handels are thinner and you also have the option of using a close grip that is great for one arm presses and ties the front delts in nice with the upper chest. The shoulder incline Is a home run so many options Rogers makes there stuff very well but the pieces that Tyler made himself are just powerful .
Well next time your in new York make your way to Long Island will get a workout in and you can demo all his original stuff. I will also introduce you to some of The TK star designs you will absolutely love them.

[HealthNutMD]

It is very similar but Tyler used that nice soft foam and with the top load it's creates a diffent feel. The Handels are thinner and you also have the option of using a close grip that is great for one arm presses and ties the front delts in nice with the upper chest. The shoulder incline Is a home run so many options Rogers makes there stuff very well but the pieces that Tyler made himself are just powerfully built .
Well next time your in new York make your way to Long Island will get a workout in and you can demo all his original stuff. I will also introduce you to some of The TK star designs you will absolutely love them.

That sounds great.

I talked to the guy who made the TK Star stuff a while back. I wanted to get some of his attachments a couple years back. Those are listed in this thread about 2 years ago. It seems he only works servicing machines now. I have heard good things about his equipment. His website was still up last I checked, even though he wasn't making anything.

I just checked:

http://www.tkstar.com/index.php

Wow, a new website is now up and running...

[deadwoodgregg]

Congrats Harris. Did Ken give you the "Cost no object" thread discount? I forgot to mention that before. Just kidding. I guess you got white w/black seat pads. Between the Avenger and the Nebula, your legs should get good and wasted.

[TLYNCH777]

TJ, I'll think I'll finally take a trip up to your gym in Long Island in the near future. I've always wanted to try that older Pendulum shoulder press, didn't know you had it. It looks like it would work great and it must have a huge footprint from the videos' I've seen of it. I believe it's even larger than the current incline/shoulder, right? How do you like the Avenger leg curl?

Come on down Harris anytime.

It's longer than the shoulder incline

I will be able to give u a good evaluation after a few workouts

[deadwoodgregg]

Also, I'll be honest I find some of the Strive products to be a bit overwhelming. Initially it sounds great to be able to use different weight pegs to adjust the strength curve but then when you get down to keeping track of what weight is on what peg and where it works and how to add weight for sets it becomes a bit too much.

I have 3 pieces of Strive. I really like that feature. Not a hassle for me. They make some nice high quality equipment. They just need to make a lineup with about twice as many designs.

[TLYNCH777]

[QUOTE=HealthNutMD;970020663]That sounds great.

I talked to the guy who made the TK Star stuff a while back. I wanted to get some of his attachments a couple years back. Those are listed in this thread about 2 years ago. It seems he only works servicing machines now. I have heard good things about his equipment. His website was still up last I checked, even though he wasn't making



His name is Tom Kinney. We speak often he was a pioneer in the equipment industry for many years. I believe he is one of the best equipment designers of all time . At one time I was working on having him and Tom I (nebula) deisign a few pieces together. Tk just made a few new triceps push down Handels he has for sale on his websight . What is so unique about TKs equipment is not one piece is exactly the same they are all slighlty different . His stuff was truly custom made. I been on a mission to find a few select pieces of his

[OutKlast]

I'm not following you on the Strive. Its really simple stuff.

I have 3 pieces of Strive. I really like that feature. Not a hassle for me. They make some nice high quality equipment. They just need to make a lineup with about twice as many designs.

My issue is less with the selectorized and perhaps I'm over analyzing this issue with the plate loaded pieces. With the selectorized you have nine cam profiles and you can select a different weight while maintaining the same strength curve. On the plate loaded you have three different peg locations that change the strength curve. My worry is based on how I typically run through a workout on an exercise in which I typically do a warm-up set (low weight/high reps), working set, near max set while maintaining at least three reps, and back to working sets. If I were using the Strive plate loaded and started with say 75lbs on peg one, 15lbs on peg two, and 25lbs on peg three how do I maintain that strength curve ratio while increasing the weight? If I just put on another 50lbs on peg three so it was 75/15/75 than I have changed the strength curve significantly from when it was 75/15/25. Or are the plate loaded machines not used like that, do you just use one peg for all the weight? If so doesn't that make the plate loaded inherently less adjustable than the selectorized that has 9 options versus 3 if you only use one peg at a time?

Sincerely,
Confused in Florida

[deadwoodgregg]

I am extreamly excited to have an avenger leg extension and leg curl coming very soon.

Did you get these from Bill Casto? If so, did you ask how much that he is asking for the Avenger pullover? He is showing that he has an Avenger leg press at his warehouse currently.

[HealthNutMD]

Did you get these from Bill Casto? If so, did you ask how much that he is asking for the Avenger pullover? He is showing that he has an Avenger leg press at his warehouse currently.

He had one last time I talked with him. I did not purchase it because I simply do not know how good it is compared to the Nautilus versions, or even the modded Hammer Strength I already have. Then we have the upcoming Tyler Hobson Pullover, which could end up being the best pullover to date (one can hope). In any case, my guess is that he still has it for sale. From what I have heard, the Avenger pullover is good, but not great.

[HealthNutMD]

My issue is less with the selectorized and perhaps I'm over analyzing this issue with the plate loaded pieces. With the selectorized you have nine cam profiles and you can select a different weight while maintaining the same strength curve. On the plate loaded you have three different peg locations that change the strength curve. My worry is based on how I typically run through a workout on an exercise in which I typically do a warm-up set (low weight/high reps), working set, near max set while maintaining at least three reps, and back to working sets. If I were using the Strive plate loaded and started with say 75lbs on peg one, 15lbs on peg two, and 25lbs on peg three how do I maintain that strength curve ratio while increasing the weight? If I just put on another 50lbs on peg three so it was 75/15/75 than I have changed the strength curve significantly from when it was 75/15/25. Or are the plate loaded machines not used like that, do you just use one peg for all the weight? If so doesn't that make the plate loaded inherently less adjustable than the selectorized that has 9 options versus 3 if you only use one peg at a time?

Sincerely,
Confused in Florida

I'm flying out the door, but want to give a quick repsonse now and prob more later. If you use the middle horn, that tends to be the typical strength curve found on most machines. For convience sake, you can always leave on whatever you like at the 1 and 3 position, and then just keep changing the weight at the middle position. I tend to do that. The beauty is that you have the ability to tailor the strength curve however you like--but that doesn't mean you have to.

[View 1]

@ matrix563

Try this version of pullovers from John Meadows, the gym I go to has a POS pullover so this is how I do them.




This version of pullover is done with your head hanging off the bench and laying on it, not across it. Only bring the dumbell to the top of your forehead. This nails your serratus and upper lats, and allows for an awesome stretch. Be cautious on the stretch though - work your way into it slowly.

[deadwoodgregg]

My issue is less with the selectorized and perhaps I'm over analyzing this issue with the plate loaded pieces. With the selectorized you have nine cam profiles and you can select a different weight while maintaining the same strength curve. On the plate loaded you have three different peg locations that change the strength curve. My worry is based on how I typically run through a workout on an exercise in which I typically do a warm-up set (low weight/high reps), working set, near max set while maintaining at least three reps, and back to working sets. If I were using the Strive plate loaded and started with say 75lbs on peg one, 15lbs on peg two, and 25lbs on peg three how do I maintain that strength curve ratio while increasing the weight? If I just put on another 50lbs on peg three so it was 75/15/75 than I have changed the strength curve significantly from when it was 75/15/25. Or are the plate loaded machines not used like that, do you just use one peg for all the weight? If so doesn't that make the plate loaded inherently less adjustable than the selectorized that has 9 options versus 3 if you only use one peg at a time?

Sincerely,
Confused in Florida

The diagram on the machine lists the middle wt. horn (#1) as the middle of the strength curve. Left wt. horn (#2) is the end of the strength curve. Right wt. horn (#3) is the beginning of the strength curve. They recommend set 1 to have all weight on horn #1. Set 2 to have all weight on horn #2. Set 3 to have all weight on horn #3. If desired set 4 would be a combo of horns 1 and 2. Set 5 would be a combo of horns 1 and 3.

[TLYNCH777]

Did you get these from Bill Casto? If so, did you ask how much that he is asking for the Avenger pullover? He is showing that he has an Avenger leg press at his warehouse currently.

Yes From Bill Casto . I believe he is willing to sell his mint condition avenger leg press for the right price. He will also soon be selling a nice medx leg press too.
I am not sure how much he is asking for the pullover. Pullovers are one of my favorite exercises I used the avenger pullover last month for the first time and I wanted to like. It is such a nice looking an well built machine. I adjusted it every way I could to fit my body and I have to say i was not impressed. Unless you are about 6 '' 4 or taller i dont think that the avenger pullover is that good. There was only a few made so they are very collectible and I am sure he can get a very good price For his.

[harrisg83]

Hey Greg, can you tell me how much "The Cost No Object Discount" is exactly? I never asked Ken about it. Thanks!

Congrats Harris. Did Ken give you the "Cost no object" thread discount? I forgot to mention that before. I guess you got white w/black seat pads. Between the Avenger and the Nebula, your legs should get good and wasted.

[deadwoodgregg]

Hey Greg, can you tell me how much "The Cost No Object Discount" is exactly? I never asked Ken about it. Thanks!

lol. Harris I am "pulling your leg" about that. Don't go to bed worrying about my joking. I feel bad doing that to you now. However, Ken will make a few thousand directly because of this thread if we keep ordering Avengers. I am interested in a Row and the Pulldown when I get the space.

[harrisg83]

Hey Greg, you definitely got me. I missed the "just kidding" part. I went out last night for my birthday and I think I drank alittle too much and I guess that's why I missed it. The funny thing is that I'm pretty friendly with a guy who after I told him I purchased the Avenger leg press told me he knows Ken pretty well and could've gotten me a discount before the fact. I'm not sure how much the discount would've been but I've been kicking myself ever since.

lol. Harris I am "pulling your leg" about that. Don't go to bed worrying about my joking. I feel bad doing that to you now. However, Ken will make a few thousand directly because of this thread if we keep ordering Avengers. I am interested in a Row and the Pulldown when I get the space.

[harrisg83]

I have interest in both the pulldown and the row myself. I need to pay off the leg press first and make some room and than maybe. I had a chance to demo the Avenger row and liked it even though it was modified in some way for super slow training. I think I would have like it even more without the mod. I've never had the opportunity to try the Avenger pulldown. I know you really like the Avenger pulldown. Can you tell me why?

lol. Harris I am "pulling your leg" about that. Don't go to bed worrying about my joking. I feel bad doing that to you now. However, Ken will make a few thousand directly because of this thread if we keep ordering Avengers. I am interested in a Row and the Pulldown when I get the space.

[deadwoodgregg]

I have interest in both the pulldown and the row myself. I need to pay off the leg press first and make some room and than maybe. I had a chance to demo the Avenger row and liked it even though it was modified in some way for super slow training. I think I would have like it even more without the mod. I've never had the opportunity to try the Avenger pulldown. I know you really like the Avenger pulldown. Can you tell me why?

I liked the row second best of the Avengers. Just my opinion. The pulldown is the first pulldown of that style that I have liked. The swiveling handles gives it some versatility. The build quality is typical awesome Avenger. Now, although I do like the pulldown, the movement is not that awesome row or leg press feel but it is very smooth. I would prefer to find both of those pieces used. I might have a lead on alot of Avenger pieces including multiples of several machines. I will keep you informed as I learn more.