Cost No Object Machines and Free Weights, the Best of the Best

[deadwoodgregg]

The people at USC did not like the Seated Squat Pro very much. When I went there to demo all 3 Pendulum machines, the seated squat pro was felt to be average at best.

I wish you could demo the seated squat pro and Atlantis pivot press.

Obviously TLYNCH777 has a different opinion of the Seated Squat. Read his last couple of comments on the last page. I am just saying that I am still interested in learning more about the Seated Squat and the Hip Press and what they can do that maybe the Avenger can't do. http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showth...7914833&page=2

[HealthNutMD]

Obviously TLYNCH777 has a different opinion of the Seated Squat. Read his last couple of comments on the last page. I am just saying that I am still interested in learning more about the Seated Squat and what it can do that maybe the Avenger can't do.

Well, the iso aspect is what is really different from the rest of the machines, although you can do one leg on the others. Doing one leg vs 2 legs seems to be most of the praise on that machine. Don't you have the Nautilus Iso leg press?

[deadwoodgregg]

Well, the iso aspect is what is really different from the rest of the machines, although you can do one leg on the others. Doing one leg vs 2 legs seems to be most of the praise on that machine. Don't you have the Nautilus Iso leg press?

I had the Hammer H-Squat which I did one leg at a time. The H-Squat is best described by its name Horizontal Squat. The most comfortable way to squat as the weight is totally off of your back and shoulders. Superb movement but I figured that I could get pretty close to replicating the H-Squat with the Avenger w/seat laid back in the squat position doing one leg at a time. The Duo-Squat is a different beast as nothing else is like it. It has as much of a cardio effect as it has strength effect. Most opinions, that I have read, on the Hammer ISO LP have been negative. The Hammer non-ISO version is OK but not best of the best worthy.

[HealthNutMD]

I am loving it (avenger leg press) and I don't think there is anything wrong with the seat I believe the original seat is one of the best features.

At first, I felt the same way about the original seat. However, after some use of the avenger leg press, I disagree. The two lower pads near the lumbar are slightly angled inward and do not provide the lumbar support of the advance seat design made by Regeneration. I think the most horizontal position of the Avenger leg press benefits tremendously from the new, advanced seat design of the Regeneration. The lumbar support is correctly shaped and very robust! Believe me, at first I thought I would actually prefer the original, but after some use, I am dropping $750.00 to get the retrofit new seat. I think that people who experience the new seat vs the original seat will clearly chose the new, Regeneration seat. The nice part about my machine is that I will have all original parts, and also the new Regeneration parts.

I am hoping we get some updates on the Avenger Leg press. Very much looking forward to the new boom design, new seat, and hopefully they can integrate band pegs as well.

[deadwoodgregg]

At first, I felt the same way about the original seat. However, after some use of the avenger leg press, I disagree. The two lower pads near the lumbar are slightly angled inward and do not provide the lumbar support of the advance seat design made by Regeneration. I think the most horizontal position of the Avenger leg press benefits tremendously from the new, advanced seat design of the Regeneration. The lumbar support is correctly shaped and very robust! Believe me, at first I thought I would actually prefer the original, but after some use, I am dropping $750.00 to get the retrofit new seat. I think that people who experience the new seat vs the original seat will clearly chose the new, Regeneration seat. The nice part about my machine is that I will have all original parts, and also the new Regeneration parts.

I am hoping we get some updates on the Avenger Leg press. Very much looking forward to the new boom design, new seat, and hopefully they can integrate band pegs as well.

I could tell the difference in the first few reps on the old seat design at Gainesville H&F. You are right, in the horizontal (squat) seat position is where it would be most beneficial. You would not want your back to be in the old seat design position while doing a barbell squat. I am surprised that MEDX ever made the old seat design. Maybe Ricky could explain their reasoning. The Duo-Squat has a flat-back seat. The H-Squat had a fairly nice contoured lumbar support seat.

[TLYNCH777]

Well, the iso aspect is what is really different from the rest of the machines, although you can do one leg on the others. Doing one leg vs 2 legs seems to be most of the praise on that machine. Don't you have the Nautilus Iso leg press?

I use the seated squat 90% of the time one leg at a time. I feel that it is just right for me 6"2 with long legs. I also find it very effective to keep the foot plate separated and work at keeping them together throught the entire range of motion. I also like to use the range of motion limiters / safteys for dead stops at the bottom exploding controlled into the rep from a complete stop. If cost is truly no objective and you have the room I would highly recommend to buy one for sure. The more I use it the more I like it. I am friends with Ron Norman who has the last original made by Tyler and that exact piece is just right. It does not have the split footplate but just perfect for one leg at a time and built tanklike.

My past two quad dominant workouts were
Pendulum seated squat one leg at a time super set with flex kneeling leg curl

Barbell squats

Avenger leg press (mid seat position)
Super set with flex leg extensions

Finished with Tk star power squat feet straight up all the way down 3/4 up

The following workout would be more glute hamstring dominant so I would
basically
replace the avenger with the hip press
Replace
Barbell squat with pendulum power squat
And some barbell stiff leg deads

And the finish with one leg pendulum seated squat instead of start.

The seated squat is beyond smooth and the tension is placed right on the muscle with no joint pain. The machine has been the greatest investment for for me building my legs back up.

It's good to know that there is others out there like myself that has a passion for good equipment. Keep up the great post lots of good info thanks

[Skidmarx]

Looking for info on this hammer leg press. It looks a lot different than the model I've used. Is this an early model perhaps?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Used-Hammer-...item43b49aaf15

[rpark]

Yes that is the one I used and did not like. Strangely enough though, this Randy Coyle "Atlantis" Swing Squat is supposed to be out of this world good. http://livewellnaturally.com/Exercis...g-Machine.html. They look alot alike to me though. This place is in Columbus, Ohio. Maybe Rpark can go by there sometime and demo one of these babies.

Wholly sh!t that's hilarious. I used to know that guy, he still lives on the same street that I lived on back in my college days 20 years ago.

I'll see what I can do. I had to delay my westside visit, as I had the misfortune of spraining both my ankle and knee playing soccer last week. Give me a week or two recovery and I think I'll be ready.

[HealthNutMD]

I did some measuring and planning, these will be included in my next Atlantis order:

1) Plate loaded Vertical chest (no longer made, but waiting to get word on the new model or ability to get the plans out and make another, per Yosi)
2) E-449 Plate loaded Shoulder
3) P-439 Plate loaded flat/decline.
4) P-156 Pec Fly/rear Delt
5) C-107 Standing leg curl
6) C-201 Pivot Press


The above are definite purchases to be included in the next order.


Below are Atlantis pieces I highly reccommend and I will try to purchase them in the future:


Flat dumbbell autospot
Decline dumbbell autospot
Incline dumbbell autospot
Shoulder dumbbell autospot
C-206 Adjustable step platform
P-443 Plate loaded chest incline
D-423 pulldown (a superior version of the Hammer puldown)


I felt that the Star trac vertical chest and vertical shoulder were almost as good as the Atlantis, but not quite. Also, the Atlantis versions did have a significantly smaller footprint. However, I would never let the size of the footprint disuade me from buying a superior pieces. In this particular case, the Atlantis plate loaded pieces were slightly better and also had a smaller footprint. That being said, the Star trac plate loaded vertical chest and plate loaded shoulder are excellent and defintely worthy of cost no object status (A). I really have a good gut feeling about that Star Trac plate loaded row and hope to demo that in Irvine soon.

The Avenger Vertical chest also remains on my list. I plan on spending more time with the Avenger pieces on my next visit to Gainesville, which will also provide the opportunity to demo the MedX selectorized tricep we have been discussing, and that Harris speaks so highly of...


If things work out correctly, I will also pull the trigger on the donkey calf form Reflex Fitness next month at the same time, so that delivery is simulataneous.

http://reflexfitness.com/Reflex%20Page%205.html


And finally, if space permits and certain less priority items can be disassembled, the Inverse Leg curl.


I'll probably hold off on the bent pendulum reverse hyper until I demo.

[HealthNutMD]

Looking for info on this hammer leg press. It looks a lot different than the model I've used. Is this an early model perhaps?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Used-Hammer-...item43b49aaf15

I'm at work, ebay gets blocked by firewall. Hopefully others can chime in...

[HealthNutMD]

Wholly sh!t that's hilarious. I used to know that guy, he still lives on the same street that I lived on back in my college days 20 years ago.

I'll see what I can do. I had to delay my westside visit, as I had the misfortune of spraining both my ankle and knee playing soccer last week. Give me a week or two recovery and I think I'll be ready.

Damn, sounds just like the Steelers. Hopefully you didn't pull a DeCastro or even worse, a Spence (that looked terrible). Hope it gets better quick. You going to Skins game? Hopefully RGIII wont run and pass wild. Look forward to your thoughts on the Westside Barbell machines!

[deadwoodgregg]

Chris, you never did say what you thought of the handle positioning on those four Atlantis plateload pressing pieces. I am most interested in the decline/flat.

[HealthNutMD]

Chris, you never did say what you thought of the handle positioning on those four Atlantis plateload pressing pieces. I am most interested in the decline/flat.

I took those pics with that guy on that decline/flat. I liked both handle choices. I think I preferred the ones the guy was using in th epic, however, the other set of grips also felt great... the other pair felt like a wide grip decline... very nice! I very much enjoyed using that machine. I like the fact it is variable angle and had 2 excellent grip choices. I am very excited to get that piece. I think the incline press, flat, and shoulder were also excellent. The only reason I wil not order the incline yet is due to space constraints, however, the incline is excellent. I figure I can wait on an incline plate loader, and that will give me more time to also demo the STAR TRAC incline press as well as the XPLOAD incline press, both of which are horizontal incline chest machines, which I feel are superior to vertically oriented incline chest machines.

I think you will be very happy!

[rpark]

Damn, sounds just like the Steelers. Hopefully you didn't pull a DeCastro or even worse, a Spence (that looked terrible). Hope it gets better quick. You going to Skins game? Hopefully RGIII wont run and pass wild. Look forward to your thoughts on the Westside Barbell machines!

Yes going to see RGIII take some two hand touch hits from the steelers "uh d".

My sprains are no big deal, nothing more than a sprain. I should be at westside in no time.

[HealthNutMD]

Version 1.3:

I thought I would try to summarize some of the highlights of this thread now that it is getting fairly long. People can certainly do their own list, but I'd thought I'd start with mine. I am focusing primarily on machines, benches, attachments, and bars. I think it is best to stay away from racks since there are tons of great rack choices on the market, and people have different priorities when it comes to picking their cost no object rack (that being said that hydraulic rack shown in this thread somewhere is really cool). I believe all of the top rack choices have been covered earlier in this thread and will continue to be discussed as new rack designs are released.

Again, this is not meant to be a free weights vs machines thread, and I think we got that out of the way early in the thread. This thread is simply about discussing all the choices of various free weights and machine choices on the market that people feel represent the best choice, regardless of cost. Certainly best bang for the buck is always relevant as well, but the thread is primarily focused on what is the best product available.

The short answer is that no company makes all of the best equipment, not even close. Additionally, some extreme body types (very short, very tall, very large, etc..) might work better with some equipment rather than others. However, a machine that is voted best of best is often because it is very adjustable and can be used with the widest variety of body types and still have the best biomechanics. Ultimately, when it comes to machines, biomechanics and how a machine feels being used is the most important factor in determining what machine is best. One of the best ways to determine biomechanics, is the ability of a machine to allow perfect form using a maximum amount of weight on the target muscle being isolated. Additionally, the ideal machine will also have adequate starting position (pre-stretch) and a very large range of motion. One example is the Cybex VR3 arm extension (tricep). It is one of the few tricep machines (of that type of machine) that has upper back support. Other similar machines without upper back support do not allow one to use heavier weights due to the need to use abdominal muscles to hold your position. Without the upper back support, you are pushing backward against your abdominal muscles. In my opinion, the Cybex VR3 with heavy stack (and older VR2) provides the best biomechanics on the market for that particular type of tricep extension machine. Cybex absolutely nailed the grip, arm pad, length of the arms, pad angle, seat, and distance between the grips, pre-stretch, and range of motion. In my opinion, it is the best of all available machines of that specific type and gets a 100% for biomechanics for a neutral grip tricep extension machine. There are certainly other types of triceps machines on the market as well, however, at the moment, this piece also represents my favorite tricep machine. Again, this is in regards to comparing machines, not to comparing machines vs. free weight skull crushers, dumbbell work, or cable pushdowns with various attachments, etc. Which bring us the topic of specialty benches. Certainly we have autospot benches and specialty benches (such as designed specifically for just for skull crushers, dumbbell pullovers, etc...) which are all to be discussed.

Ultimately, only a personal opinion can be offered about what someone considers as the best possible choice in a machine. The vast majority of the choices I feel are superior to all other choices in terms of biomechanics. Sometimes there is a type of machine that you have a few good choices (rows and leg presses for example) therefore all of the choices should be listed, and ranked according to personal preference.



Leg presses:

TOP-TIER:

MedX Avenger Leg Press
Atlantis Fitness Pivot Press
Atlantis 40 degree Leg press (with modified wide foot plates)
Rogers Athletic Power Squat Pro
Rogers Athletic Pendulum Hip Press
Atlantis Power Squat (modified additional wide foot plate surface)
Nebula Vertical leg press
Atlantis Hack Squat machines

Runner-ups:
Nebula 35 degree leg press
Nebula 45 degree Leg Press
UCS adjustable 35-45 degree leg press (difficult to find demo)
Elite FTS Mondo 45 degree Leg press
Cybex Plate loaded Leg Press
Strive Plate loaded leg press
Atlantis Fitness Pendulum Leg press (similar to the old Paramount leg press)



Leg Curl:

TOP-TIER:

Star Trac makes the best prone leg curl and bested kneeling leg curl on the market bar none:
Star Trac Prone Leg curl A+ (newest version gets demoted to A/A-).
Star Trac Kneeling Leg Curl A+
Atlantis C-107 Standing leg curl
Westside Legend: Inverse leg curl


Runner-ups:
Cybex plate loaded kneeling leg curl A



Leg Extension:

TOP-TIER:
Strive Fitness plate loaded A+
Westside Legend: Hip Quad machine


Leg Abductor/Adductor:

TOP-TIER:
Strive Fitness combo abductor/adductor A+

Runner-ups:
Atlantis Abductor/Adductor A-
Cybex Eagle A-



Calf Machines:

TOP-TIER:

Sorinex seated calf A+
Atlantis standing calf A (Lack of rounded calf block keeps this unit from achieving a perfect score)
Nebula seated calf A
Sorinex Donkey calf
Free Motion Epic calf ext A



Shoulder:

TOP-TIER:

Rogers Athletic Pendulum: Shoulder/Incline/Chest machine A/A+
Hammer Strength Plate loaded Iso lateral A/A+
Strive selectorized lateral raise A+
Star Trac plate loaded shoulder press A
Atlantis E-449 Plate loaded Shoulder A/A+

Runner -ups:

Hammer Strength Plate loaded Super Incline (or older version called iso lateral military shoulder press) A- However, improved to A with back pad spacer mod behind upper set of back pad screws)
MedX Avenger Shoulder (overhead press) A-


Traps:

TOP-TIER:

Rogers Athletic Pendulum 5 way neck with shrugs.
Elite FTS Pro Rickshaw
Power Lift DEADLIFT / TRAP BAR
Sorinex Diamond Bar




Triceps:

TOP-TIER:

Cybex VR2/VR3 arm extension. Heavy stack option is absolute MUST have on VR3. Older VR2 is also top tier and has heavy stack included. A+
MedX selectorized tricep extension
Atlantis D-123 Pulldown with various tricep attachments. A+
Atlantis Dipping station A+
Hammer Strength Plate loaded seated dip
Nebula reverse dip bench

Runner-ups:
Bodymaters behind the head triceps extension



Biceps:

TOP-TIER:

Strive plate loaded bicep A+
Sorinex Adjustable Preacher Curl Bench A+
Hammer Strength plate loaded bicep A



Back:

TOP-TIER:

Rogers Athletic Pendulum Combo Lat Pulldown
MedX Avenger Row
Hammer Strength Iso lateral MID ROW, with modified chest pad.
Atlantis D-123 pulldown, also comes with 310 lb stack (best cable pulldown on the market, hydraulic seat, etc...)
Atlantis NM-500 pulldown (250 lbs stack, but offers dual pulleys)
Atlantis D-132 cable High Row (310 lb weight stack is standard on this).
Dual stirrup Hampton cable attachment or similar chain with Black Iron Strength stirrup handle upgrades.
Strive Plate loaded and selectorised Low back extension with seatbelt.
Legend Reverse hyperextension with curved pendulum
Star Trac/Flex Fitness row selectorized row.
(Star Trac plate loaded version is highly likely to make this list, but is in need of demoing)
Atlantis D-423 pulldown (a superior version of the Hammer pulldown)

Runner -ups:
Rogers Athletic Pendulum Row
Hammer Strength High Row
Hammer Strength Low Row
Hammer Strength Pulldown




Chest:

TOP-TIER:
Atlantis P-439 Plate loaded flat/decline A+
Hammer Strength HORIZONTAL iso lateral chest A/A+
Atlantis Plate loaded Vertical chest A/A+ (old version in process of new release)
MedX Avenger Iso lateral vertical chest A/A+
Rogers Athletic Pendulum Shoulder/Chest/Incline A
Star Trac plate loaded vertical chest
Rogers Athletic Pendulum Vertical Chest (non-converging design will cause varying opinions on this machine, highly recommend demo before purchase).
Atlantis P-156 Pec Fly/rear Delt A
Nautilus Power Plus 10 degree chest
Atlantis P-443 Plate loaded incline chest

Runner -ups:
Hammer Strength Wide chest
Hammer Strength Decline Chest



Abs:

TOP-TIER:

Hammer Strength MTS selectorized Ab Crunch A+
Hammer Strength Plate loaded AB Crunch A+ (I demoed the plate loaded one in Vegas and it was just as good and also allows twisting of the seat for obliques. Also 4 weight horns for unlimited weight).
Strive fitness Rotary Torso: A+ (modified to have 225 lb weight stack, predominantly to help make setting 2 adequately challenging).
Strength Inc. Inverted Sit Up (revision of the Old Body Master Inverted Sit Up. Designed for the Hard Core Sit Up user).
Atlantis fitness adjustable ab bench


Benches:

TOP-TIER:
Nebula Awesome utility bench
Elite FTS Collegiate 0-90 bench
Williams strength signature Military dumbbell bench
Nebula reverse dip bench
Nebula dumbbell pullover bench
Nebula flat bench that is adjustable at both sides for incline, decline, and flat of various heights.
Sorinex Autospot benches
Atlantis Fitness Autospot benches
Power-Lift Lever Action


Glute Ham Developer:

UCS Glute Ham with custom wide footplate and wide footpads (36" width footplate)



Pullover Machines:

Nautilus Power Plus Pullover

Runner-up:
Hammer Strength plate loaded (with custom pad spacers as shown in thread)



MISC:

Atlantis C-206 Adjustable step platform
Rogers Athletic Pit Shark
Rope machines
Power -Lift Adjustable plyo boxes
Elite FTS Swiss Bar
Black Iron Strength fat bars
Black Iron Strength attachments.
T-Grip Barbell bars and attachments
Mag Grip attachments: http://www.maxagrip.com/products.html
Power-Lift VARIABLE ANGLE ROMAN CHAIR
Legend Fitness: Squat Machine and Calf Blaster #3129


Functional Trainers:

Cybex Bravo
Free Motion


High interest pieces for hopeful soon demo:


DAVID equipment (David international) http://www.david-international.com/cms/
Panatta Sports
Schnell Machines
Pendulum Gripper vs David Multi Forearm vs Nautilus Next Generation Super Forearm
Atlantis power runner
Quantum Fitness Power Crunch machines and ABT (All body trainer).


Cardio Machines:


www.endlesspools.com
Michael Phelps SwimSpa: www.michaelphelpsswimspa.com
SwimEx: www.swimex.com

Precor AMT
Precor EFX ellipticals
Cybex Arc trainer 770 AT (moving arms) or A (non-moving arms)

Commercial Stairmaster machines. Step Mill 5
Jacob's Ladder

Versa climber

Rowing machines:
Concept 2 Rower: Water Rower (wood version): Water Rower (metal version)

Treadmills:

Woodway Desmo Elite
Woodway Curve
Commercial Precors (954, 956, 966).
Star Trac E-TRxe

Stationary Bikes:

Cybex 770 upright bike
Star Trac E-UBe
Schwinn Airdyne

[deadwoodgregg]

Looks as if Legend has no immediate plans of producing a Leveredge decline chest press. I will plan on getting the Atlantis at some point. Promaxima makes one but I think the Atlantis will be worth whatever price difference there might be.

[matrix563]

healthnut, is this the one? http://www.csmfitness.com/Strive_11p...bAdductor.html

[TLYNCH777]

At first, I felt the same way about the original seat. However, after some use of the avenger leg press, I disagree. The two lower pads near the lumbar are slightly angled inward and do not provide the lumbar support of the advance seat design made by Regeneration. I think the most horizontal position of the Avenger leg press benefits tremendously from the new, advanced seat design of the Regeneration. The lumbar support is correctly shaped and very robust! Believe me, at first I thought I would actually prefer the original, but after some use, I am dropping $750.00 to get the retrofit new seat. I think that people who experience the new seat vs the original seat will clearly chose the new, Regeneration seat. The nice part about my machine is that I will have all original parts, and also the new Regeneration parts.

I am hoping we get some updates on the Avenger Leg press. Very much looking forward to the new boom design, new seat, and hopefully they can integrate band pegs as well.

Thats going to be awesome . I absolutely love the way these avenger machines were built. I was a rep for nebula for a short time in 07-09 the gym fitness incentive my wife and i work at in Babylon NY . We were in the process of making that Nebulas east coast show room. We got over 40 pieces of nebula designs and old. I did not think any equipment out there was built as heavy as Tom Eilermans that was until I got introduced to the original pendulum and the avenger line. Great stuff I am excited that Ken is bringing it back to life it's worth every penny.

[deadwoodgregg]

I was a rep for nebula for a short time in 07-09 the gym fitness incentive my wife and i work at in Babylon NY . We were in the process of making that Nebulas east coast show room. We got over 40 pieces of nebula designs and old.

What is the situation at that gym? I have noticed alot of equipment being sold on Ebay over the past few months from that gym. Mostly Nebula and Flex.

[OutKlast]

Looks as if Legend has no immediate plans of producing a Leveredge decline chest press. I will plan on getting the Atlantis at some point. Promaxima makes one but I think the Atlantis will be worth whatever price difference there might be.

Speaking of Promaxima, did anyone else notice that their new Leverage line (Plate loaded) and the UTS Series (Selectorized) appear to contain quite a few nearly identical pieces to what Hammer Strength offers. I couldn't find any information about that whether it is some sort of joint licensing or if Promaxima buys unbranded Hammer Strength from the same builder or what.

For Example:

ProMaxima PL-54 Unilateral Chest & Lat Pull




Hammer Strength Iso-Lateral Chest/Back



----------------------

I don't know what Promaxima's pricing is on these pieces. Perhaps it is less than Hammer Strength? Not sure though, it seems like Hammer Strength is already priced pretty reasonably.

[HealthNutMD]

healthnut, is this the one? http://www.csmfitness.com/Strive_11p...bAdductor.html

Yes. I know it is strange for a guy to pursue Abductor/adductor machines to the degree I have, but that is again because my vastus medialis is huge, so I try to work everything else around it.

To this point, the Strive Adductor/Adductor is significantly better than any other unit, combo or seperate, on the market. What amazes me is how many ABD/ADD machines have insufficient weight stacks. Further, many do not offer enough pre-stretch which requires the ability to have 180 degree opening for adductor. Strive offers the best weight stack/maximum difficulty on the market, 180 degree stretch (or very close), and also as an added bonus, allows you to vary the strength curve. What is even more amazing, and least important to me, is the footprint actually happens to be much smaller than the competition.

The Strive Abbductor/Adductor is truly the best of its kind. Those other two units in the runner up category truly are a distant second and also take up a lot more footprint as well.

[HealthNutMD]

Speaking of Promaxima, did anyone else notice that their new Leverage line (Plate loaded) and the UTS Series (Selectorized) appear to contain quite a few nearly identical pieces to what Hammer Strength offers. I couldn't find any information about that whether it is some sort of joint licensing or if Promaxima buys unbranded Hammer Strength from the same builder or what.

Everybody seems to copy Hammer designs, even 20+ years later. Just goes to show that the original designer was really doing some breakthru designs at that time. Atlantis, Legend, you name it... They all make knock offs of several of the Hammer pieces.

I wrote an email to Life-Fitness at the request of the Life-fitness/Hammer National sales rep last year and specifically asked Life-Fitness why they have not come out with a 'HAMMER STRENGTH 2' line which adds adjustabilty and improvements that many competitors are doing with their designs. Life-Fitness has let the Hammer Strength line rot and stagnate. They even copied some of the designs into their own signature plate loaded line, which laughingly are not as good. Even the Signature mid row is not quite as good as the Hammer version (slightly less pre-stretch) and offers no adjustability in the chest pad. Life fitness proves to be a company that puts all of its enegy into the cardiac equipment, and has ignored the Strength equipment. They seem only interested in making cost effective generic Strength equipment. It is a shame they bought Hammer Strength because they haven't done a damn to develop it further.

[matrix563]

Yes. I know it is strange for a guy to pursue Abductor/adductor machines to the degree I have, but that is again because my vastus medialis is huge, so I try to work everything else around it.

To this point, the Strive Adductor/Adductor is significantly better than any other unit, combo or seperate, on the market. What amazes me is how many ABD/ADD machines have insufficient weight stacks. Further, many do not offer enough pre-stretch which requires the ability to have 180 degree opening for adductor. Strive offers the best weight stack/maximum difficulty on the market, 180 degree stretch (or very close), and also as an added bonus, allows you to vary the strength curve. What is even more amazing, and least important to me, is the footprint actually happens to be much smaller than the competition.

The Strive Abbductor/Adductor is truly the best of its kind. Those other two units in the runner up category truly are a distant second and also take up a lot more footprint as well.

i really don't think its weird. i'm getting by with my small parabody adductor/abductor. I can load plates on it (not too many, each thing is 7 inches only). i've always enjoyed adductor/abductor machines . how much does the strive go for and where can it be purchased? i didn't see many links online when i searched

[OutKlast]

Everybody seems to copy Hammer designs, even 20+ years later. Just goes to show that the original designer was really doing some breakthru designs at that time. Atlantis, Legend, you name it... They all make knock offs of several of the Hammer pieces.

I wrote an email to Life-Fitness at the request of the Life-fitness/Hammer National sales rep last year and specifically asked Life-Fitness why they have not come out with a 'HAMMER STRENGTH 2' line which adds adjustabilty and improvements that many competitors are doing with their designs. Life-Fitness has let the Hammer Strength line rot and stagnate. They even copied some of the designs into their own signature plate loaded line, which laughingly are not as good. Even the Signature mid row is not quite as good as the Hammer version (slightly less pre-stretch) and offers no adjustability in the chest pad. Life fitness proves to be a company that puts all of its enegy into the cardiac equipment, and has ignored the Strength equipment. They seem only interested in making cost effective generic Strength equipment. It is a shame they bought Hammer Strength because they haven't done a damn to develop it further.

I think the market for adjustable equipment is just so small compared to blah equipment for your planet fitness / apt. complex type gyms. I think it was Life Fitness or Cybex that even advertised the lack of pre-stretch as a feature to prevent injury to users. Overall highly adjustable pieces sound great but for many gyms with casual users those types of machines are to intimidating so they don't get used and consequently the gym does not order the same when its time for new equipment. You also have the issue of needing to sacrifice some functionality for idiot proofing. I mean hell look at what happened to Cybex ( http://www.nylawsuitreform.org/2012/...-reform-lrany/ ) initially they had a judgement of 66 million because some lady managed to tip a leg machine over onto herself resulting in paralysis. I think many equipment manufacturers took note and now design revolves around time tested ideas and ideas that are as idiot proof as possible and lastly they focus on being a good movement for muscle development.

Also, I'll be honest I find some of the Strive products to be a bit overwhelming. Initially it sounds great to be able to use different weight pegs to adjust the strength curve but then when you get down to keeping track of what weight is on what peg and where it works and how to add weight for sets it becomes a bit too much.

[HealthNutMD]

Also, I'll be honest I find some of the Strive products to be a bit overwhelming. Initially it sounds great to be able to use different weight pegs to adjust the strength curve but then when you get down to keeping track of what weight is on what peg and where it works and how to add weight for sets it becomes a bit too much.

I'm not following you on the Strive. Its really simple stuff.

[deadwoodgregg]

Speaking of Promaxima, did anyone else notice that their new Leverage line (Plate loaded) and the UTS Series (Selectorized) appear to contain quite a few nearly identical pieces to what Hammer Strength offers. I couldn't find any information about that whether it is some sort of joint licensing or if Promaxima buys unbranded Hammer Strength from the same builder or

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I don't know what Promaxima's pricing is on these pieces. Perhaps it is less than Hammer Strength? Not sure though, it seems like Hammer Strength is already priced pretty reasonably.

Square footage wise, Promaxima is a huge company. Four times bigger than Legend and even bigger than the Cybex main plant. However they do produce both cardio and strength machines as well as having the Healthline remanufacturing division. They do build quite a few different designs. Quality is pretty good but like many other companies, you have to hunt for the pieces that are winners. Healthine has some of the pricing for alot of the pieces (new) on their site. Raptor series machines are about $3000 each if I remember. I have interest in 4 Promaxima pieces currently.

[TLYNCH777]

What is the situation at that gym? I have noticed alot of equipment being sold on Ebay over the past few months from that gym. Mostly Nebula and Flex.

The black wrinkle with the china green pads are from the gym. We sell them and put that money towards the new pendulum . The gym just recently got the power squat pro and next on the list is the shoulder incline . To be able to buy that i have to sell a hammer incline and a massive bodymasters donkey calf raise that has been completly restored with add ons. At Fitness incentive we don't have anymore room so somthing has to go for anything new to come in.

I am in the same situation For my personal equipment . We are maxed out for space. I got out of control the past few years buying different pieces many been put to good use and sold . Some are equipment that I have had multiples of others just time for a change. I would keep them all but I have to compromise with my wife who is also my buesness partner. If i want to buy somthing new somthing has to be sold. At one time i had every version of the leg press that nebula ever made. It was out of contol. I was called a Nebulaholic. I held on to many but since I have had knee surgery the 45 degree leg press and hack squats are no longer best for me. I have a mint condition nebula hack and leg press from 2006 that I will most likely be listing soon I would like to find a good home for them .

I seen pic of your pullover restoration Great work man. For me that original plate loaded spider cam pullover is the best. I would take that over anything made today I even like that better than the power pluss. I can only emagin how smooth it is now with out the chains. I have restored over 20 pieces the past few years I know how long it takes but it is a great feeling when its finnaly complete an you get to use it in your training.

I got the flex one on eBay that is a great piece but I just restored an original flex kneeling leg curl but the selectorized version with a cable instead of Kevlar. For that particular piece I like the feel of the cable better.

[matrix563]

speaking of pullover machines, how similar is this motion compared to a nautilius pullover? it will be awhile till i have the space for one

[HealthNutMD]

speaking of pullover machines, how similar is this motion compared to a nautilius pullover? it will be awhile till i have the space for one

I'd rather do dumbbell pullovers than what is shown there. That being said, no, is not comparable to a pullover machine im my opinion.

TLYNCH, Tyler is working on a new design Pendulum plate loaded pullover. I am hoping it will combine the best features of the various Nautilus pullovers. Maybe you should give him a call and give him feedback as well. I have been sending him my input on pullovers and also for the piece he is working on next after the pullover, the variable degree pec fly which I am also excited about. Lets hope tyler cam combine all the best features of the Nautilus pullovers, and also the Nautilus pec fly machines.

I have to say his new leg extension is not very inspiring.

Congrats on the Power Squat Pro! That is one unique bad-ass machine.

So you are getting the Shoulder/Chest/Incline pendulum as well?

[deadwoodgregg]

speaking of pullover machines, how similar is this motion compared to a nautilius pullover? it will be awhile till i have the space for one

That is a version of a substtute. I think using a dunbbell or a barbell might be more common. I am far from being an expert but I try not to pull with my hands on an actual pullover machine. I would push with my elbows.