Protein shake DURING workout or AFTER workout?

[Juicy Sauce]

Question: What if someone is in a caloric deficit?

they will lose weight

[ThickAsABrick]

This one minute detail is most likely the secret to unlocking huge gains.

Thanks for taking the time to ask the hard-hitting, important questions that most people don't have the guts to ask. I like your style and wish you the best in both your training goals and your life outside of lifting.

Enjoy the rest of your day!

[Ironlife]

This one minute detail is most likely the secret to unlocking huge gains.

Thanks for taking the time to ask the hard-hitting, important questions that most people don't have the guts to ask. I like your style and wish you the best in both your training goals and your life outside of lifting.

Enjoy the rest of your day!

Lulz

[Devildowninga]

I take mine after the workout. Its better on the stomach and it tastes good so its like something to drink while I rest and chill.

^^^This

[Mr. Tripeps]

Didn't read all the replies so sorry in advance if I'm repeating something...

Nutrition during and after your workout isn't as important and the details don't matter as much as your pre-workout meal, IMO. Rarely will anyone blow through the nutrients from a good pre-workout meal. It will still be in the blood stream post-workout, so AFAIC the meal/shake can wait until after your workout, and doesn't need to be immediately after to get your muscles to recooperate. If you want to take it over and above and make maybe a 1% difference, you can do a shake during your workout, but to me it's just one more chore with minimal results. Save the bcaa's and protein shakes mid-workout for low or no-carb diets when your pre-workout meal doesn't give you enough to get you through a workout.

[That70sShowDude]

The thing they are drinking during their workout is meant to drink during a workout. (Intra-workout supp)
Drink it right after you do your last set.

[dwallner]

I would imagine if you can stomach, what amounts to a meal, during your workout. Your being a sally and need to push harder. Especially on legs.

[illriginalized]

A lot of people in my gym drink between lifts, BCAA's.

This for me. After the workout, chocolate protein shake blended with banana and two scoops of peanut butter

[ironwill2008]

The supp industry has done a great job of making people think that their gains hinge on how soon after training they must ingest "teh fast-acting proteinz and carbz."

So now we're supposed to eat during the workout?


What's next; carrying around a metal stand with an intravenous bag of teh proteinz while we train?

[Devildowninga]

This for me. After the workout, chocolate protein shake blended with banana and two scoops of peanut butter

So fructose and fat for you after a workout? Ooookay then.....

[chazzy1864]

they will lose weight

Holy sh*t! Good to know, I had no clue.



jdjprimer, your post states that bcaas are useless for a person in a caloric surplus, due to the already abundance of nutrients and aminos in our body. What if the person is in a caloric deficit? Are BCAAs still a useless supplement?

[jdjprimer19]

Question: What if someone is in a caloric deficit?

It is still not necessary. I'll explain more in detail when I get home from work tonight.

[jdjprimer19]

so fructose and fat for you after a workout? Ooookay then.....

Yep...

[chazzy1864]

It is still not necessary. I'll explain more in detail when I get home from work tonight.

Cool, interested to read.

[ironwill2008]

Yep...

(sigh)........we're fighting a losing battle.

[joelash302]

The supp industry has done a great job of making people think that their gains hinge on how soon after training they must ingest "teh fast-acting proteinz and carbz."

So now we're supposed to eat during the workout?


What's next; carrying around a metal stand with an intravenous bag of teh proteinz while we train?

I wear one of those beer helmets and try to swallow about a second before each lift. This way my insulin spikes each rep, re-filling my muscles with energy as the muscle relaxes. It's f-cking science, man.

[ironwill2008]

I wear one of those beer helmets and try to swallow about a second before each lift. This way my insulin spikes each rep, re-filling my muscles with energy as the muscle relaxes. It's f-cking science, man.

But you're still going through your digestive system; that takes too facking long.. Why not cut to the chase, and needle it directly to teh fibraz intravenously?



















not srs; don't anyone do this!


Geez; I can't believe I felt the need to put the 'not srs' tag on this.

[illriginalized]

So fructose and fat for you after a workout? Ooookay then.....

I train at 6AM, bro.

[jdjprimer19]

Cool, interested to read.

There is plenty of research on BCAA's & their role in muscle protein synthesis & prevention in muscle protein breakdown. The controversy stems from supplementing them (free form amino's) on top of a diet already rich in BCAA's (protein rich foods) at various phases of dieting.

Most of this argument stems from an idea called the 'protein-stat hypothesis.' This hypothesis explains that there is a membrane-bound sensor either intra or extracellular that is sensitive to relative changes in amino acid concentrations, not absolute changes. This hypothesis attempts to explain the refractory response seen in MPS when AA levels are kept elevated.

The popular recommendation you see is to take so many grams in between meals to elevate MPS. The research often cited to support this dosing strategy are based off these two studies:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11306673

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/en...ubmed_RVDocSum

The first study introduced AA's 6 hours intravenously & found that MPS maxed out after approx 2 hours & returned to basal values shortly after despite the constant infusion. This is where the 'stat hypothesis' came about & why the suggestion of BCAA spikes in between meal lapses of 4-5 hours will increase MPS.

The major confounder is an unrealistic testing protocol using IV administration (how many of us are going to infuse AA's into a peripheral IV or midline catheter?) & acute, short-term data.

The second study had a control group take 64g P per day while the experimental group consumed 109g P per day with the BCAA. We have a comparison of not BCAA vs whole food protein diet, but rather an example of adequate vs. inadequate intake. So of course the study favors BCAA supplementation.

In yet another study, BCAA + high protein diet performed better, however not without significant confounders. The experimental group receiving the BCAA's received 3x protein overall than the control group. So to say that the BCAA group performed better was simply a matter of adequate vs. inadequate intake considering the control group didn't even receive the RDA recommendation. Therefore, this was another faulty trial in BCAA's favor.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1...ubmed_RVDocSum

For athlete's on an aggressive cut, BCAA's are commonly supplemented to help save calories. One can consume as many BCAA's from whey as free form amino's by consuming 80g whey. While this may seem in favor of supplementation due to caloric restriction, this is only an extra 240 cals beyond what one would consume with BCAA powder, liquid, or gel tabs. If you assume 4 training days per week, this is 960 cals extra per week & in a month's time, 3840 cals. This comes out to roughly 3 lbs per month. The best suggestion would be to start cutting 2-3 weeks earlier & to stick with the whey.

Intact proteins & whey cause greater satiety than amino's, which have been shown in clinical studies to potentially stimulate appetite. This is not good for one in strict dieting conditions. Not to mention whey has beneficial compounds that are missing from BCAA's (lactoferrin, immunoglobins, etc). See following study:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15253675

The greater appetite control of whey will carryover better to a strict cut rather than supplementing with BCAA's which has been used as an anticachexic agent. Plus, you will get just as many BCAA's from whey & the other EAA's.

In a BCAA roundtable, Dan Moore states this:

"Even if cutting, most bodybuilders still eat sufficient protein. Therefore, he would still be consuming sufficient BCAA. I think somehow people started to believe that BCAAs are magical where lean mass retention is concerned.

I think most believe that during exercise our bodies are utilizing huge amounts of BCAAs for energy. While we do use some, the increase is far smaller than other macronutrients. In fact, the increased turnover in protein from exercise is only about two- to three-fold versus 20- to 30-fold for carbohydrate and fats. Now, of course, this protein should be replaced. However, I don’t believe it’s necessary to increase BCAA ingestion above what is already consumed in whole protein."

[BB4239]

Great post, Thank you.^

[Ironlife]

What's next; carrying around a metal stand with an intravenous bag of teh proteinz while we train?

mmm, im liking the way you think..

[F1eld]

uhm drink the protein/bannana/2scoopsofpeanutbutter/BCAA's afterwards duhhhh

[xyz23]

So fructose and fat for you after a workout? Ooookay then.....

Yeah

good time for an excuse to eat sugary and fatty things

[jdjprimer19]

Yeah

good time for an excuse to eat sugary and fatty things

Indeed it is!

[illriginalized]

uhm drink the protein/bannana/2scoopsofpeanutbutter/BCAA's afterwards duhhhh

If you're talking to me I drink my BCAA's from start to finish of my training and my training only lasts between 30-50 minutes tops. I don't chug it and I drink it in between sets and also I drink water.

[cgh]

Is your workout like 4 hours long? Why the hell do you need to drink during?

[brudman]

Info

Not challenging your post, but isn't there also some debate around whether free form BCAAs have completely different affects than BCAAs from peptide bound proteins in the diet? Isn't Leucine shown to trigger protein synthesis in its free form when consumed with peptide bound proteins? That would show the independent function of at least one of the free form BCAAs.

This link opens up plenty of discussion. http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=594912

Take creatine for instance. Through protein comsumption, one should consume enough L-Arginine, Glycine, and L-Methionine, but still reap the benefits of creatine supplementation.

[chazzy1864]

Interested to read more back and forth.

[jdjprimer19]

Not challenging your post, but isn't there also some debate around whether free form BCAAs have completely different affects than BCAAs from peptide bound proteins in the diet? Isn't Leucine shown to trigger protein synthesis in its free form when consumed with peptide bound proteins? That would show the independent function of at least one of the free form BCAAs.

This link opens up plenty of discussion. http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=594912

Take creatine for instance. Through protein comsumption, one should consume enough L-Arginine, Glycine, and L-Methionine, but still reap the benefits of creatine supplementation.

As I mentioned in my previous post, this is based off of a HYPOTHESIS. This is pure SPECULATION. The study contained short-term data (infusion status) & there is currently no long-term research that examines the effects of BCAA supplementation on body composition & athletic performance.

Layne Norton at a ISSN conference presented that 3-4g Leucine may be optimal for providing maximum protein synthesis. Here is a direct quote (2010) concerning the supplementation of leucine powder:

"There is some evidence that long-term leucine availability is sufficient to improve muscle mass or performance during exercise training. However, it needs to be associated with other amino acids to be efficient (for example leucine rich proteins)."

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20110810

You can obtain this magical leucine from whole foods such as whey, soy, cottage cheese, 6-8 oz animal protein, parmesan cheese, etc & still receive other EAA's. Hence another reason for consuming a regular, protein rich diet.

3-4g of Leucine can be obtained through:

6-8 oz most animal proteins
1.5-2 scoops cottage cheese
3 oz parmesan cheese
2-2.5 scoops soy protein powder
1.5-2 scoops of whey

(AARR 2010)

Here is an excellent debate to consider as well which is much more recent:

http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showth...1279921&page=2


Here is an excellent article about the skepticism of BCAA supplementation:

http://www.pponline.co.uk/encyc/nutr...formance-40852

[joelash302]

You have to appreciate a nutrition based thread having better direction and civility over time in the exercise forum compared to the nutrition forum.