hdrol

[adamv7010]

Thinking about trying a cycle of hdrol @ some point and thought of following tunedsports outline...is there any real benefit or need to preload for 2 weeks w cycle support or life support? or can it be taken the entire cycle like suggested without preloading?

Thanks in advanced guys

also, i will be using a serm

[Tattoomagoo]

Thinking about trying a cycle of hdrol @ some point and thought of following tunedsports outline...is there any real benefit or need to preload for 2 weeks w cycle support or life support? or can it be taken the entire cycle like suggested without preloading?

Thanks in advanced guys

also, i will be using a serm

You will get mixed opinions about this but here is mine...
H-Drol is considered a "mild" PH and people start their cycles with and without pre-loading.
I personally think that it's a good idea and it is recommended so you should probably do it... but there is also no research (that I have located) in regards to the effects of not pre-loading vs. pre-loading so it is not possible to give the perfect answer.
A good answer though is to always heir on the side of caution and Pre-load if you have the supplements. Good luck.

[AlphaTauMuscle]

Hdrol is by no means a mild PH, though I agree with everything above poster said. Myself I believe you can get away without preloading, but then again I believe in different supports then cycle support. If your going to run hdrol just make sure to get a serm

[cptdgraham]

yeah you should run a cycle support 2 weeks before...and it is considered a mild or beginner ph. you should also definitely run a serm after too.

edit: didnt see that you already said you were doing a serm. hope your diet is dialed in good!

[adamv7010]

im going w liquid nolva for pct stacked w some kinda booster...maybe tbol?

Agg has the best price that i've found on the liquid nolva...

instead of cycle support or life support you say you would suggest a different support supp? which would be what? and Why?

I appreciate your posts guys

both Repped

[adamv7010]

yeah you should run a cycle support 2 weeks before...and it is considered a mild or beginner ph. you should also definitely run a serm after too.

edit: didnt see that you already said you were doing a serm. hope your diet is dialed in good!

i've heard this a couple times now w hdrol...what could i expect or expect not to see with a diet not 100% on cue?

[AlphaTauMuscle]

im going w liquid nolva for pct stacked w some kinda booster...maybe tbol?

Agg has the best price that i've found on the liquid nolva...

instead of cycle support or life support you say you would suggest a different support supp? which would be what? and Why?

I appreciate your posts guys

both Repped

Cycle support is mainly NAC and Milk thistle, milk thistle can hinder gains by down grading androgen recpetors and IMO doesnt do as good of a job at liver support that most think it does. And the NAC isnt dosed high enough, my supports would go something like this. NAC, Taurine, Vit B-complex, mega dose fishoil, hawthorne berry, and Liv52

[cptdgraham]

i've heard this a couple times now w hdrol...what could i expect or expect not to see with a diet not 100% on cue?

well your results are going to be limited. whether you are on a bulk or cut your diet and training should reflect that, then the supps are just the extra kick that sends your results from good to really good. Pro BB'ers are a great example of this, their diet is precise down to the gram. If your trying to gain weight and strength then you need to be pounding the carbs. Experienced people will tell you that if your training and your diet is not in check then dont even bother with the ph or aas because you have bigger issues to get in line before the supps

[Dymethazine]

the biggest reason to preload is for the hb because it raises your bp before lowering it. i myself am just taking liv52, nac and hb throughout my next cycle along with other essentials.

[Tattoomagoo]

Cycle support is mainly NAC and Milk thistle, milk thistle can hinder gains by down grading androgen recpetors and IMO doesnt do as good of a job at liver support that most think it does. And the NAC isnt dosed high enough, my supports would go something like this. NAC, Taurine, Vit B-complex, mega dose fishoil, hawthorne berry, and Liv52

Just wondering what your recommended dosages would be for the: NAC, Taurine, Vit B-complex, mega dose fishoil, hawthorne berry, and Liv52?

[AlphaTauMuscle]

Just wondering what your recommended dosages would be for the: NAC, Taurine, Vit B-complex, mega dose fishoil, hawthorne berry, and Liv52?

NAC=roughly 2-3g's
Taurine=3-5g's
B-complex=whatever your taking
Fishoil=4-10g's of EFA
HB=2-3g's
Liv52=as directed

[BringnIt]

Cycle support is mainly NAC and Milk thistle, milk thistle can hinder gains by down grading androgen recpetors and IMO doesnt do as good of a job at liver support that most think it does. And the NAC isnt dosed high enough, my supports would go something like this. NAC, Taurine, Vit B-complex, mega dose fishoil, hawthorne berry, and Liv52

Two questions. Is there evidence that shows that milk thistle downgrades androgen receptors in any other tissue except the prostate? Secondly, why don't you think it's an effective liver aid?

[AlphaTauMuscle]

Two questions. Is there evidence that shows that milk thistle downgrades androgen receptors in any other tissue except the prostate? Secondly, why don't you think it's an effective liver aid?

http://carcin.oxfordjournals.org/content/22/9/1399.full
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11059749

Theres a pub med that showed milk thistle as less potent then originally though somewhere but I cant find it

[BringnIt]

http://carcin.oxfordjournals.org/content/22/9/1399.full
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11059749

Theres a pub med that showed milk thistle as less potent then originally though somewhere but I cant find it

Both those are in prostate tissue, and I just wonder how much that can be extrapolated to other tissues. Interested in seeing the milk thistle study if you find it, though, as studies on herbal preparations are easy to FUBAR.

If you haven't seen it, here's one on milk thistle in rodents:

INTRODUCTION: The use and abuse of anabolic-androgenic steroids (AAS) commonly induces liver damage. MATERIAL AND METHODS: The study included 40 male Wistar rats, divided into 4 groups of 10 rats each. Animals in the first experimental group (M), were subjected to progressive systematic forced swimming test, 5 days a week, during 8 weeks. Animals in this group were treated with AAS methandienone, 2 mg/kg BW/day, per os, before swimming, 5 d/w for 8 weeks. After swimming, animals were given three times more food than the laboratory animals of the same age and kind. Animals in the second group (M+S), were subjected to progressive forced swimming test, 5 d/w 8 weeks. Animals in this group were treated with methandienone equally as the experimental group M and received the same amount of food. Apart from that, they received silymarin 20 mg/kg BW/day. Animals in the third group (K), represented the control group, which was neither subjected to swimming test, nor treated with methandienone or silymarin. Animals in this group received the same amount of food as animals in groups M and M+S. Animals in the fourth group ©, also represented a control. This group was not exercised nor treated, and animals received a standard amount of food for laboratory animals of this kind and age. Quantitative analysis of obtained hemataxylin-eosin, periodic acid shift and enzymohistochemical preparations was processed using Digital Image Analysis System: Microimage 3.0. RESULTS: It was established that processes in the nuclei of animals in groups M and K were significantly more intensive (p<0.001) in relation to groups M+S and C. The investigation of glycogen showed significantly higher density in the cells of groups M and M+S in comparison to groups K and C. Also, there was a significant difference between groups M+S and M. Density of enzyme activity of glutamate dehydrogenase in hepatocytes of animals in the group M+S was significantly higher in relation to the remaining three groups. A statistically significant difference was not found in enzyme activity of succinate dehydrogenase and lactate dehydrogenase. DISCUSSION: In cell nuclei of animals in the experimental group M, in the absence of silymarin effect, methandienone causes damages which induce regenerative processes and in this way increase high intensity activity. Silymarin significantly increases the glycogen density in hepatocytes. Increased activities of GDH are attributed to cell vitality. CONCLUSION: The present results show hepatoprotective effects of silymarin in androgenic-anabolic steroid induced liver damage.

PMID: 15510919

Anyway, just starting getting more into the prohormone/AAS research, so figured I'd pick your brain when I saw your post on the topic.

[AlphaTauMuscle]

Both those are in prostate tissue, and I just wonder how much that can be extrapolated to other tissues. Interested in seeing the milk thistle study if you find it, though, as studies on herbal preparations are easy to FUBAR.

If you haven't seen it, here's one on milk thistle in rodents:




Anyway, just starting getting more into the prohormone/AAS research, so figured I'd pick your brain when I saw your post on the topic.

alot of people quote that study and question if this concept carries over from rats to humans. Either way IMO rather safe then sorry, NAC is great at everything it does and I would take it over milk thistle either way

[De__eB]

Liver support?

UDCA or TUDCA.

You're welcome.

[RatherBeLifting]

You will get mixed opinions about this but here is mine...
H-Drol is considered a "mild" PH and people start their cycles with and without pre-loading.
I personally think that it's a good idea and it is recommended so you should probably do it... but there is also no research (that I have located) in regards to the effects of not pre-loading vs. pre-loading so it is not possible to give the perfect answer.
A good answer though is to always heir on the side of caution and Pre-load if you have the supplements. Good luck.

What is the point in pre loading besides wasting money? Also are support supps even needed for a 1 month cycle?

Hdrol is by no means a mild PH, though I agree with everything above poster said. Myself I believe you can get away without preloading, but then again I believe in different supports then cycle support. If your going to run hdrol just make sure to get a serm

How do you know if it is mild, how many cycles you got under your belt?

[MR_HESS]

Should be none, he's only 20 years old.

[AlphaTauMuscle]

What is the point in pre loading besides wasting money? Also are support supps even needed for a 1 month cycle?


How do you know if it is mild, how many cycles you got under your belt?

Of hdrol, none. Ive seen enough bloods of people being in the double digit post cycle to know that its not 'mild'

[bomb1977]

A) You won't be happy with the results of a 1 bottle, 1 month run at 2 pills (50mg) per day.

B) It might be a mild PH, but it's still methylated...don't underestimate it

C) Pre-loading is for your protection

[RatherBeLifting]

Of hdrol, none. Ive seen enough bloods of people being in the double digit post cycle to know that its not 'mild'

I'm sorry, I should have never challenged true knowledge.

[AlphaTauMuscle]

I'm sorry, I should have never challenged true knowledge.

its cool man, just dont let it happen again

[Fitzwell]

I think supports are over hyped and unnecessary besides maybe a couple of single substances.