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  1. #1
    Registered User IronmanWarrior's Avatar
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    Deadlift/bench press/overhead press/squat.

    Hi all Im a little puzzled to why I can only SQUAT 60kg/132pounds 4x8 when my BENCH PRESS is 70kg/174pounds 4x8???? My other lifts are SHOULDER PRESS 50kg/110pounds 4x8 and DEADLIFT 100kg/220ponds 4x8...

    Surely my squats should be higher than what I bench and close to what I deadlift.. Also can anybody put a % in to what you should be doing.. like if Deadlift is 100%(your heaviest lift) your Squat should be at like 70%??

    Many thanks.
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    Pale Sasquatch Pride Farley1324's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by IronmanWarrior View Post
    Hi all Im a little puzzled to why I can only SQUAT 60kg/132pounds 4x8 when my BENCH PRESS is 70kg/174pounds 4x8???? My other lifts are SHOULDER PRESS 50kg/110pounds 4x8 and DEADLIFT 100kg/220ponds 4x8...

    Surely my squats should be higher than what I bench and close to what I deadlift.. Also can anybody put a % in to what you should be doing.. like if Deadlift is 100%(your heaviest lift) your Squat should be at like 70%??

    Many thanks.
    How long have you been benching? Squatting?

    There are no hard and fast % for those, only general ballpark 'typical' ranges
    Motivation is what gets you started. Habit is what keeps you going.

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  3. #3
    Registered User IronmanWarrior's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by IronmanWarrior View Post
    Hi all Im a little puzzled to why I can only SQUAT 60kg/132pounds 4x8 when my BENCH PRESS is 70kg/174pounds 4x8???? My other lifts are SHOULDER PRESS 50kg/110pounds 4x8 and DEADLIFT 100kg/220ponds 4x8...

    Surely my squats should be higher than what I bench and close to what I deadlift.. Also can anybody put a % in to what you should be doing.. like if Deadlift is 100%(your heaviest lift) your Squat should be at like 70%??

    Many thanks.

    This is my routine by the way:

    MON Chest/Bis
    TUE Legs/Shoulders
    WED 15mins of pullups (not continouse of coarse)
    THU back/triceps
    FRI back mass
    SAT REST
    SUN REST

    My chest routine is:

    bench press(bar/free weight) 4x8
    flat dumbell press 4x8
    flies 4x8
    incline dumbell press 4x8
    pec dec 4x8

    Legs:

    squat 4x8
    leg press 4x8
    calf machine 4x8
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  4. #4
    Registered User IronmanWarrior's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Farley1324 View Post
    How long have you been benching? Squatting?

    There are no hard and fast % for those, only general ballpark 'typical' ranges

    Iv been training properly for about 18 months.

    Since then Ive gone from 10.7stone to 13.5stone and iv gained about 20% on most lifts....
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    Originally Posted by IronmanWarrior View Post
    Iv been training properly for about 18 months.
    With a 4x8 squat of 132 pounds?

    I don't think so
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  6. #6
    Registered User IronmanWarrior's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Farley1324 View Post
    With a 4x8 squat of 132 pounds?

    I don't think so

    Edit: read your post wrong.

    Well I was squatting 70kg at one point with not too bad form, but when i went to 80kg my form really dipped but i didnt wana go back to a lower weight... thought by overloading id get lifting heavier quicker!

    But in the last month or so Ive gone back down to 60KG, the highest weight i can do with perfect (ass to grass) form...
    Last edited by IronmanWarrior; 09-15-2010 at 09:15 AM.
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  7. #7
    Registered User IronmanWarrior's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Farley1324 View Post
    With a 4x8 squat of 132 pounds?

    I don't think so

    So do you think that is the right workout for my legs then?? And how long should I expect to get to 70kg or 80kg?? (4x8) with near perfect form ovcoarse
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    Registered User abg's Avatar
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    If your goal is strength, you probably want to change your program. I've been doing a strength program for just over 4 weeks and have the following gains:

    Squat -- 65.2%
    Bench -- 29.6%
    Deadlift -- 81.5%
    Press -- 50%

    That's in 4 weeks.

    Now, to your question, yes, you should, if you were doing everything right, be squating more than you bench. Heck, your press is 22lbs less than your squat, and your press will be pretty much your weakest big lift.

    Why are your squats weak? You don't give them much attention. Heck, you give your chest 5 lifts vs 3 lifts of legs, one of which is calf raises, so pretty much 2 leg lifts.

    How do you get them up? Give them attention and increase the weight each session. At the weight you are doing, you can EASILY do squats twice a week (Mon/Thurs, Tues/Fri, etc...) if not 3 times. Put them FIRST in any workout for that day. Yes, you may need to drop the weight on those lifts, but not drastically and the benefit will be worth it.

    How do you know when you are ready to increase the weight? Did you do your predetermine rep range? Was form good? Increase the weight. All of the above is true, but you just don't think you can go higher? Suck it up and increase the weight. You will only get stronger on the squat by squating more weight, and at what you are lifting, more often will only get you there faster.
    My training journal: http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=127231913
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  9. #9
    Registered User IronmanWarrior's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by abg View Post
    If your goal is strength, you probably want to change your program. I've been doing a strength program for just over 4 weeks and have the following gains:

    Squat -- 65.2%
    Bench -- 29.6%
    Deadlift -- 81.5%
    Press -- 50%

    That's in 4 weeks.

    Now, to your question, yes, you should, if you were doing everything right, be squating more than you bench. Heck, your press is 22lbs less than your squat, and your press will be pretty much your weakest big lift.

    Why are your squats weak? You don't give them much attention. Heck, you give your chest 5 lifts vs 3 lifts of legs, one of which is calf raises, so pretty much 2 leg lifts.

    How do you get them up? Give them attention and increase the weight each session. At the weight you are doing, you can EASILY do squats twice a week (Mon/Thurs, Tues/Fri, etc...) if not 3 times. Put them FIRST in any workout for that day. Yes, you may need to drop the weight on those lifts, but not drastically and the benefit will be worth it.

    How do you know when you are ready to increase the weight? Did you do your predetermine rep range? Was form good? Increase the weight. All of the above is true, but you just don't think you can go higher? Suck it up and increase the weight. You will only get stronger on the squat by squating more weight, and at what you are lifting, more often will only get you there faster.

    Hi thanks for that.

    Yes well my overall goal at the moment is strength/mass, in the last 18months iv ganed almost 3 stone and am a good size and still quite lean, I just wish my lifts wud be higher!

    My overall goal is to bench 220punds 4x8, deadlift 308 4x8, overheadpress 154 4x8 and squat 265 4x8.. I hope to do that by the time im 27 (03/2012).


    I train for 90 minutes 4 times a week and eat between 4000-5000calories a day with about 150-230g protein.. Now im a good size and build, wud goin on a 'cut' stripping away fat help increase my lifts??

    And What was your strenght routine like, was it based around 5x5?
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    Originally Posted by IronmanWarrior View Post
    Edit: read your post wrong.

    Well I was squatting 70kg at one point with not too bad form, but when i went to 80kg my form really dipped but i didnt wana go back to a lower weight... thought by overloading id get lifting heavier quicker!

    But in the last month or so Ive gone back down to 60KG, the highest weight i can do with perfect (ass to grass) form...
    ATG is not perfect squat form. Depending on what your training goals are it is probably unnecessary to squat that deep. Squatting that deep is also why your form is breaking at higher weights, because you lose stability.
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    Registered User abg's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by IronmanWarrior View Post
    Hi thanks for that.

    Yes well my overall goal at the moment is strength/mass, in the last 18months iv ganed almost 3 stone and am a good size and still quite lean, I just wish my lifts wud be higher!

    My overall goal is to bench 220punds 4x8, deadlift 308 4x8, overheadpress 154 4x8 and squat 265 4x8.. I hope to do that by the time im 27 (03/2012).


    I train for 90 minutes 4 times a week and eat between 4000-5000calories a day with about 150-230g protein.. Now im a good size and build, wud goin on a 'cut' stripping away fat help increase my lifts??

    And What was your strenght routine like, was it based around 5x5?
    I am doing Starting Strength. You can find someone's write-up on this board or you can google it and get the book. The book is the best bet for all of the details. The lifts are:

    Day A: Squat 3x5, Bench 3x5, Deadlift 1x5
    Day B: Squat 3x5, Press 3x5, Power Clean 5x3
    Week 1: A, B, A
    Week 2: B, A, B
    Repeat.
    Increase the weight EVERY session until you can't while maintaning form.

    Even though you have been training for 18 months, don't let the name "Starting Strength" or the reference to "novice" throw you off. Novice in this case refers to where your body is relative to the ability to adapt to the stress place upon it. For the most part you probably fall in this category, though some of your lifts are closer to intermediate than others.

    You will, however, need to get past the "need" to do work outside of what is on the program for the maximum benefit.

    Do it right, eat right, and you will hit your goals, ideally a lot sooner than you plan. Do expect, though, that the lifts you are already decently high on will hit their limits sooner.

    As to going on a cut: generally that will decrease your lifts.
    My training journal: http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=127231913
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  12. #12
    Registered User IronmanWarrior's Avatar
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    Thumbs up

    Originally Posted by abg View Post
    I am doing Starting Strength. You can find someone's write-up on this board or you can google it and get the book. The book is the best bet for all of the details. The lifts are:

    Day A: Squat 3x5, Bench 3x5, Deadlift 1x5
    Day B: Squat 3x5, Press 3x5, Power Clean 5x3
    Week 1: A, B, A
    Week 2: B, A, B
    Repeat.
    Increase the weight EVERY session until you can't while maintaning form.

    Even though you have been training for 18 months, don't let the name "Starting Strength" or the reference to "novice" throw you off. Novice in this case refers to where your body is relative to the ability to adapt to the stress place upon it. For the most part you probably fall in this category, though some of your lifts are closer to intermediate than others.

    You will, however, need to get past the "need" to do work outside of what is on the program for the maximum benefit.

    Do it right, eat right, and you will hit your goals, ideally a lot sooner than you plan. Do expect, though, that the lifts you are already decently high on will hit their limits sooner.

    As to going on a cut: generally that will decrease your lifts.


    Ok mate il av a look into 'starting strength' have heard that name mentioned quite a bit, so it must be the buissiness... repped ya fo ya sound advice.
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    I see the problem. You're squatting ONCE a week.
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    Originally Posted by otiskii View Post
    I see the problem. You're squatting ONCE a week.

    So how many times a week should I squat then 2/3? and should i do the leg press 2/3week aswell?
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    Pale Sasquatch Pride Farley1324's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by IronmanWarrior View Post
    So how many times a week should I squat then 2/3? and should i do the leg press 2/3week aswell?
    Read the stickies and pick one of the novice programs contained within
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    Originally Posted by Farley1324 View Post
    Read the stickies and pick one of the novice programs contained within

    Ive read them all thanks.

    Il stick to 8x4 on most excersices to be honest as it promotes muscle growth as well as strength gains.. Iv made great gains in mass and muscle size, decent strength gains allround except legs, so dont want to make dramatic changes to my workout


    I think the other guys have hit the nail on the head. I need to work my legs more than once a week then hopefully my squat should be where it shud be....



    And if you think, 'well your routine cant be working cos your only lifting light weights' 18 months ago when i only got a proper routine together, i could barely bench 50kg, dealift, 70kg... I was skinny with no muscle at all...
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    Thumbs up

    Originally Posted by IronmanWarrior View Post
    Hi all Im a little puzzled to why I can only SQUAT 60kg/132pounds 4x8 when my BENCH PRESS is 70kg/174pounds 4x8???? My other lifts are SHOULDER PRESS 50kg/110pounds 4x8 and DEADLIFT 100kg/220ponds 4x8...

    Surely my squats should be higher than what I bench and close to what I deadlift.. Also can anybody put a % in to what you should be doing.. like if Deadlift is 100%(your heaviest lift) your Squat should be at like 70%??

    Many thanks.
    As people have told you already, your only doing 1 simple problem which is under estimating your legs. Not a big deal, lots of people actually do it(one of them being myself). If you think about it your legs are what carry you around all, your leg muscles consist of white (oxygenated) muscle fibers so it takes ALOT to actually start breaking down muscle tissue, in hoping for positive recovery for growth.

    Instead of squatting "ass to grass" set up some platforms or bench to stop you once your squat angle hits 90 degrees. Hitting legs twice a week would def. be helpful, also I would try biking for 5-10 minutes before hitting legs. Getting more oxygen into your muscle tissue before performing your lifts will warm up your muscle fibers and enable you to perform the exercise crisper.

    The stronger your legs get the more you'll increase your core strength, and your overall strength will go up then.
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    Originally Posted by otiskii View Post
    I see the problem. You're squatting ONCE a week.
    And that would be a problem because...
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    Originally Posted by btbarry View Post
    As people have told you already, your only doing 1 simple problem which is under estimating your legs. Not a big deal, lots of people actually do it(one of them being myself). If you think about it your legs are what carry you around all, your leg muscles consist of white (oxygenated) muscle fibers so it takes ALOT to actually start breaking down muscle tissue, in hoping for positive recovery for growth.

    Instead of squatting "ass to grass" set up some platforms or bench to stop you once your squat angle hits 90 degrees. Hitting legs twice a week would def. be helpful, also I would try biking for 5-10 minutes before hitting legs. Getting more oxygen into your muscle tissue before performing your lifts will warm up your muscle fibers and enable you to perform the exercise crisper.

    The stronger your legs get the more you'll increase your core strength, and your overall strength will go up then.

    Ye cud try a bit of cycling first. The funny thing is i struggle like hell to do them, just about failing on the last rep. Yet after the session my legs dont feel too bad/saw...??


    OOOO another thing i forgot to mention is im a postman and i walk like 7-10km a day often hilly rounds with large bags on me shoulder. cud that affect my performance?
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    Originally Posted by CookAndrewB View Post
    And that would be a problem because...
    Squats can be done 3x a week w/o risk of over-training while someone is a novice. Once someone starts exiting the novice stage they'll probably squat heavy 2 days a week and medium/light on the middle day.


    Unless you are a more advanced lifter squatting in the 350lb++ range most people can recover/see results from squatting 2-3x a week. The whole hit a bodypart 1 time per week thing is for advanced lifters.


    Quads/muscles involved the squat can get stronger/larger from squatting 3x per week, so why not do it?
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    You think it is working well because in 18 months your benching went from 50 to 70 kilos?
    Motivation is what gets you started. Habit is what keeps you going.

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    Originally Posted by Farley1324 View Post
    You think it is working well because in 18 months your benching went from 50 to 70 kilos?
    Going from 50kg 4 sets of 8 reps to 70kg 4 sets of 8 reps certainly aint bad!

    Especially when Iv not just been looking to gain strength, iv gained about 35pounds whilst maintaining a good defined shape.. all my muscles have gained significantly in size (once i do a cut il look great) and i do lots of isolation exersizes as well as the big ones.. so im lookin for steady gradual gains allround, from head to toe...


    Sorry mate, but I aint guna have huge gains when gaining strength aint my ONLY goal...

    If I only benched my bench wud probably be 85/90kg 4x8 bye now, but everything else wud brobably suck! lol
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    Originally Posted by IronmanWarrior View Post
    Going from 50kg 4 sets of 8 reps to 70kg 4 sets of 8 reps certainly aint bad!
    No it's actually horribly slow progress.
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    Yeah, I think mine went from 50-70kg in 18 days. I think anyway. I always get confused when KGs are involved.
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    Originally Posted by IronmanWarrior View Post
    Going from 50kg 4 sets of 8 reps to 70kg 4 sets of 8 reps certainly aint bad!
    In 18 months? For a healthy 25 year old male, novice?

    For me, personally, I would be extremely, extremely disappointed in that. You should be able to do a LOT better.
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    Originally Posted by Farley1324 View Post
    In 18 months? For a healthy 25 year old male, novice?

    For me, personally, I would be extremely, extremely disappointed in that. You should be able to do a LOT better.
    Lets put Op's gains into perspective.

    roughly adding 1.1 kilo per month, or .25 kilo's per week that's about a half pound, actually a touch more or about the weight of the hamburger I ate for lunch.

    Sound sad enough yet OP?

    How about you gained in 18 months what you could have gained in 2 weeks of Starting Strength the fastest strength. Or to put it differently as much as 3 months of All Pros, a solid hypertrophy program though a little on the slow side as far as strength gains.

    Are you sure you want to stick with your current program?
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    Hey man I am pretty much the same.

    I do drop sets of bench starting on 90-95kg, but I can only do 4 sets x 8 90kg squat. I started squat sets on 70kg though, so just keep working your legs first, and try and do them twice a week
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    Originally Posted by Wildtim View Post
    Lets put Op's gains into perspective.

    roughly adding 1.1 kilo per month, or .25 kilo's per week that's about a half pound, actually a touch more or about the weight of the hamburger I ate for lunch.

    Sound sad enough yet OP?

    How about you gained in 18 months what you could have gained in 2 weeks of Starting Strength the fastest strength. Or to put it differently as much as 3 months of All Pros, a solid hypertrophy program though a little on the slow side as far as strength gains.

    Are you sure you want to stick with your current program?

    Hi mate thanx for that.

    So you think i shud try starting strength or something. And how quickly would you expect me to go go from 4x8 (70kg) to 4x8 (90kg)??

    Also we need to bear in mind that strength has never been my strong point and 18 months ago i had barely any muscle or size..

    Like 18 months ago I only weighed 70kg,, so as a new guy lifting about 70%(50kg 4x8) of my body weight is surely to be expected?... then about 6 months ago i was only like 76kg in body weight.. how is a newb guna lift more than his body weight 4x8, as sum say i shud hav dramatically incresed my bench by then?? now im about 85kg in body weight my bench has gone from like 60kg to 70kg in the last few months..
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    Going back to your original post, you asked 2 pretty simple questions (though one in the form of a statement).

    1) Surely my squats should be higher than what I bench and close to what I deadlift

    Answer: Yup, you should be squatting more than you bench. It should be your 2nd highest lift, though where it is at relative to your deadlift will vary.

    2) Also can anybody put a % in to what you should be doing.. like if Deadlift is 100%(your heaviest lift) your Squat should be at like 70%??

    Answer: Specific %'s, no. Generally it should be Deadlifts > Squats > Bench > Cleans > Press.

    People have offered suggestions on how to get your squat up, since that is obviously a concern for you and the purpose of this post. SS is a great program for gaining strength. If you do it and eat accordingly you WILL see your squat go up relatively fast.

    If you want to do your current program but get stronger squats, then do squats more than once a week. 3x is great, but you'd ideally want to move your legs day to Wednesday in that case. Do them first in the workout and on the non-leg days, go for 3x5 or 5x5. Something a bit more oriented for strength gains.
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    Originally Posted by IronmanWarrior View Post
    Hi mate thanx for that.

    So you think i shud try starting strength or something. And how quickly would you expect me to go go from 4x8 (70kg) to 4x8 (90kg)??

    Also we need to bear in mind that strength has never been my strong point and 18 months ago i had barely any muscle or size..

    Like 18 months ago I only weighed 70kg,, so as a new guy lifting about 70%(50kg 4x8) of my body weight is surely to be expected?... then about 6 months ago i was only like 76kg in body weight.. how is a newb guna lift more than his body weight 4x8, as sum say i shud hav dramatically incresed my bench by then?? now im about 85kg in body weight my bench has gone from like 60kg to 70kg in the last few months..
    Why are you stuck on 4x8?

    You could and probably should have improved all of your lifts a great deal more given 18 months of continuous training.

    You should also be gaining weight while training to gain strength. 70-76 kg bodyweight over 18 months is well below what you should probably be going for.
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