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  1. #1
    Registered User bigckelly123's Avatar
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    Pro-hormone question

    When taking a prohormone with the compound 17beta-hydroxy 2 alpha, 17 beta-demethyl 5alphy-androstan 3-on azine should the liver support be taken during the same meal or should it be spaced out during the day, and any guidelines on what time of the day to take and what to eat on cycle would also be appreciated
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  2. #2
    Registered User maggotspawn's Avatar
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    Liver support should be taken 4 hours apart from when you take your prohormone. For example: if you take your PH at 7:00 AM, take your liver support at 11:00. Take your second dose of prohormone at 3:00 PM., liver support again at 7:00 PM
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  3. #3
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    Originally Posted by maggotspawn View Post
    Liver support should be taken 4 hours apart from when you take your prohormone. For example: if you take your PH at 7:00 AM, take your liver support at 11:00. Take your second dose of prohormone at 3:00 PM., liver support again at 7:00 PM
    broscience bro?
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  4. #4
    Registered User maggotspawn's Avatar
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    Might be, but I don't think so. This is straight from a CEL rep and others concerning Cycle Assist dosage, due to the milk thistle in. Something to do with the milk thistle interfering with absorption of the PH.
    Last edited by maggotspawn; 09-14-2010 at 12:26 PM.
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  5. #5
    onigami!@#!$@ mer-der-ah's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by maggotspawn View Post
    Might be, but I don't think so. This is straight from a CEL rep and others concerning Cycle Assist dosage, due to the milk thistle in. Something to do with the milk thistle interfering with absorption of the PH.
    makes no difference. but if it makes you feel better, dose it how you like.
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  6. #6
    Registered User maggotspawn's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by mer-der-ah View Post
    makes no difference. but if it makes you feel better, dose it how you like.
    Yeah, it's kind of a PITA to dose that way, but I'll keep doing it that way until I see some scientific proof one way or another.
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    Originally Posted by maggotspawn View Post
    Yeah, it's kind of a PITA to dose that way, but I'll keep doing it that way until I see some scientific proof one way or another.
    So wait, you do things on a whim until they're scientifically DISproven?

    I've got this new pump product In beta testing that I'll sell you if you wanna meet up at my oceanfront brooklyn bridge in Idaho.

    4.20g arginine
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    There's also a pro version, that has an extra 2mg of sheer stupidity if you want to throw more money at me.
    Last edited by De__eB; 09-14-2010 at 02:14 PM.
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  8. #8
    Registered User maggotspawn's Avatar
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    Go **** yourself tool. If I take milk thistle 4 hours apart from prohormones, who cares? It's recommended to take it that way on several other message boards.
    Edit: My apologies, I see you're 5' 6", that explains it.
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  9. #9
    Registered User De__eB's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by maggotspawn View Post
    Go **** yourself tool. If I take milk thistle 4 hours apart from prohormones, who cares? It's recommended to take it that way on several other message boards.
    Edit: My apologies, I see you're 5' 6", that explains it.
    wait wait....lol...you go after the stat thats OUTSIDE of ones control?

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  10. #10
    Registered User maggotspawn's Avatar
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    I realize it's out of your control, but it seems like you have a chip on your shoulder. Whatever. It's not like you added anything informative to this thread. You probably haven't run prohormones, but there you are mouthing off like you know what's up. Like I said before you can go **** yourself.
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  11. #11
    Registered User De__eB's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by maggotspawn View Post
    I realize it's out of your control, but it seems like you have a chip on your shoulder. Whatever. It's not like you added anything informative to this thread. You probably haven't run prohormones, but there you are mouthing off like you know what's up. Like I said before you can go **** yourself.
    No chip on the shoulder at all, I actually find my height beneficial in the weight lifting world.

    There's no need to space out your cycle assit product or standalone milk thistle with your prohormone.

    Further silibinin is poorly bioavailable, and I wouldn't particularly buy into it doing a huge amount to support your liver on cycle.

    I'd recommend UDCA or TUDCA as a far better supplement for prevention of choleostasis induced by methylated prohormone use.

    But like I said before, broscience bro?
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  12. #12
    Registered User maggotspawn's Avatar
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    Like I said it might be bro-science. I'm a member of several different message boards. Anabolic Minds, Lean Bulk, the old Discount Anabolics board, and it was always suggested to space out the dosage of liver support from prohormones. So how many cycles have you run at 21 years old?
    And what the **** ever, I don't give a **** how many cycles you've run. Your a little d!ck with severe Napolean Syndrome. Done with this thread.
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  13. #13
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    Originally Posted by maggotspawn View Post
    Like I said it might be bro-science. I'm a member of several different message boards. Anabolic Minds, Lean Bulk, the old Discount Anabolics board, and it was always suggested to space out the dosage of liver support from prohormones. So how many cycles have you run at 21 years old?
    And what the **** ever, I don't give a **** how many cycles you've run. Your a little d!ck with severe Napolean Syndrome. Done with this thread.
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  14. #14
    Registered User maggotspawn's Avatar
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    Sure thing midget. Please don't bite my kneecaps.
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  15. #15
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    Originally Posted by maggotspawn View Post
    Sure thing midget. Please don't bite my kneecaps.
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  16. #16
    Registered User maggotspawn's Avatar
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    I might be short, but my internet reputation sure is taller than yours, and thats important @$%# right there.

    All i see is red

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  18. #18
    Registered User maggotspawn's Avatar
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    LOL. Your internet reputation? Neato.
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  19. #19
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    Originally Posted by De__eB View Post
    No chip on the shoulder at all, I actually find my height beneficial in the weight lifting world.

    There's no need to space out your cycle assit product or standalone milk thistle with your prohormone.

    Further silibinin is poorly bioavailable, and I wouldn't particularly buy into it doing a huge amount to support your liver on cycle.

    I'd recommend UDCA or TUDCA as a far better supplement for prevention of choleostasis induced by methylated prohormone use.

    But like I said before, broscience bro?
    UDCA is great for teh livar

    i hear they farm it from the bile of bears in china... how bout them apples?
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  20. #20
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    Originally Posted by mer-der-ah View Post
    UDCA is great for teh livar

    i hear they farm it from the bile of bears in china... how bout them apples?
    That's an urban legend that is...actually true.

    However U.S. production is not based off of animals (for obvious legal reasons...), so I guess I should add that if you're getting some UDCA, to make sure you're buying it from a U.S. based supplier :P
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  21. #21
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    Pro-hormone question 09-15-2010 09:13 AM maggotspawn Why are you looking for a fight?
    I'm not, you're just mad. Stop taking things quite so seriously.
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  22. #22
    Registered User maggotspawn's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by De__eB View Post
    I'm not, you're just mad. Stop taking things quite so seriously.
    I thought the following post was a little provocative:

    "So wait, you do things on a whim until they're scientifically DISproven?

    I've got this new pump product In beta testing that I'll sell you if you wanna meet up at my oceanfront brooklyn bridge in Idaho.

    4.20g arginine
    .01mg turkesterone
    100mg plutonium

    There's also a pro version, that has an extra 2mg of sheer stupidity if you want to throw more money at me."


    But whatever, I don't need the drama. I did a little research and there's not much out there for milk thistle in regards to it's effect on uptake of other chemicals. Didn't bother looking for SAMe or anything else. Asked around at some other message boards, right now it's kind split, though it was mentioned since there is so little research people tend to side either way. Like mer-der-ah said, if I want to dose in this way it's not hurting anything.
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  23. #23
    Registered User De__eB's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by maggotspawn View Post
    I thought the following post was a little provocative:

    "So wait, you do things on a whim until they're scientifically DISproven?

    I've got this new pump product In beta testing that I'll sell you if you wanna meet up at my oceanfront brooklyn bridge in Idaho.

    4.20g arginine
    .01mg turkesterone
    100mg plutonium

    There's also a pro version, that has an extra 2mg of sheer stupidity if you want to throw more money at me."


    But whatever, I don't need the drama. I did a little research and there's not much out there for milk thistle in regards to it's effect on uptake of other chemicals. Didn't bother looking for SAMe or anything else. Asked around at some other message boards, right now it's kind split, though it was mentioned since there is so little research people tend to side either way. Like mer-der-ah said, if I want to dose in this way it's not hurting anything.
    Heh, that was a dig at several companies who embody broscience, not you

    Way to be caught up on forum drama broseidon.
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    Registered User maggotspawn's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by De__eB View Post
    Heh, that was a dig at several companies who embody broscience, not you

    Way to be caught up on forum drama broseidon.
    I give up on your dumb a$$. Now where did that ignore function go?
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    Originally Posted by maggotspawn View Post
    I give up on your dumb a$$. Now where did that ignore function go?
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    Registered User maggotspawn's Avatar
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    Regarding Milk Thistle: "Other actions include interruption of enterohepatic recirculation of toxins and regeneration of damaged hepatocytes (2). Quote is from the from the first link.

    http://www.mskcc.org/mskcc/html/69303.cfm

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enterohepatic_circulation



    Is it possible that interruption of enterohepatic recirculation could affect absorption of prohormones?
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    There was a study in the early 90s showing very minimal recirculation of various androgens (single digit % I believe it was).

    However, I would imagine that varies somewhat significantly depending on the compound in question...

    Further, at 2 servings a day of cycle support, the standard all-in-one cycle product people seem to use, you'd be consuming 2g of silymarin a day, which due to silymarin's own heavy recirculation is enough to maintain high concentrations of it pretty constantly, so I'm still pretty confident that the time difference would matter too much.

    Also...wouldnt recirculation be a bad thing? as you would have some amount of the steroid being excreted through feces instead of metabolised by the liver? So blocking its recirculation should HELP, right?
    Last edited by De__eB; 09-15-2010 at 11:14 AM.
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    From the first link:

    "Pharmacokinetics
    Following oral administration, milk thistle is poorly absorbed from the gastrointestinal tract with a bioavailability of approximately 23-47%. Peak plasma concentrations occur within 2-4 hours (3). Milk thistle inhibits cytochrome p450 isoenzyme 3A4 and has an elimination half-life of approximately 4 hours. 30-40% of administered dose is recoverable from the bile as both glucuronide or sulfate conjugates and 2-5% is excreted in the urine (4)."

    It appears that milk thistle has a half life of 4 hours.

    First-Pass Effect
    "the metabolism of orally administered drugs by gastrointestinal and hepatic enzymes, resulting in a significant reduction of the amount of unmetabolized drug reaching the systemic circulation."

    http://medical-dictionary.thefreedic...st-pass+effect

    This first pass is where I believe the methyl bond of a methyl prohormone is broken. Still researching the relationship between the liver and small intestine in digestion/absorption, but I think do to enterohepatic recirculation, is why you get more then one pass through the liver.
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    Originally Posted by maggotspawn View Post
    This first pass is where I believe the methyl bond of a methyl prohormone is broken.
    Then you need to do more research on sterics, intermolecular forces, and the pharmacology of 17aa oral steroids.
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    Originally Posted by PinchTheBear View Post
    Then you need to do more research on sterics, intermolecular forces, and the pharmacology of 17aa oral steroids.
    Yeah, maybe. Up until this point I've just been taking them. Do I need to know what they're doing on a molecular level? Maybe, maybe not. What are your views on the topic at hand?
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