Clean Eating is a SCAM!

[JCDF]

Let me begin by challenging anyone to hit their macros on burgers, fries, shakes, & soft drinks. It won't happen. Hitting your macros is almost a self-regulating "diet cleaner", especially if you plan on getting enough fiber to crap with any comfortable level of regularity. I also think that making a conscious effort (not a neurotic one) to have a variety of foods hedges your bets in the direction of long-term health. In practice, roughly 10-15% of your total calories (daily or weekly - your choice) coming from whatever you damn well want does not significantly hamper progress, and in many cases actually helps. I'll write a long-winded article about it for WBB soon (bless those guys for their patience in waiting for articles from me).

word. and it seems that those who actually read the article understand this as my point - there is no reason NOT to incorporate some foods deemed unclean into your diet if you want to.

I never wrote one's diet should consist of nothing but junk.

[alan aragon]

word. and it seems that those who actually read the article understand this as my point - there is no reason NOT to incorporate some foods deemed unclean into your diet if you want to.

I never wrote one's diet should consist of nothing but junk.

Yup, truth. I think it's really easy for bros to blindly attack this subject without reading the actual content of your article because they're automatically wired to think in terms of black/white extremes. Shoot, even Captain Stabbin knows there's gonna be some occasional brown .

[Trillios]

That's why the "if it fits your macros" line is thrown out a lot. If you can fit something you love that satisfies you daily or weekly into your macros then you will more likely be more consistent with your diet long term without bumps on the road. Besides finding the right scheduling with my diet, what I said before has helped me a ton. If I can't fit some kind of peanut butter into my macros daily (or even a few days a week) then I'll be very upset .

[desslok]

word. and it seems that those who actually read the article understand this as my point - there is no reason NOT to incorporate some foods deemed unclean into your diet if you want to.

I never wrote one's diet should consist of nothing but junk.

Of course not, but some people like to take things to extremes. If you say that a little sugar isn't bad for you, at some point you will get "so I should eat 3000 calories of snickers and donuts?" question.

[seanb1979]

Yup, truth. I think it's really easy for bros to blindly attack this subject without reading the actual content of your article because they're automatically wired to think in terms of black/white extremes. Shoot, even Captain Stabbin knows there's gonna be some occasional brown .

Brown - it can do some amazing things.

[alan aragon]

Brown - it can do some amazing things.

Thread 100% saved

[seanb1979]

Of course not, but some people like to take things to extremes. If you say that a little sugar isn't bad for you, at some point you will get "so I should eat 3000 calories of snickers and donuts?" question.

3000 calories from snickers -


123 g fat (45 saturated)

56 g protein

414 g carbs

So to get 200g protein you need about 11,000 calories. Sweet.

[seanb1979]

Thread 100% saved

Pretty sure they were in the Cap'n Stabbin audition room the next day.

[desslok]

3000 calories from snickers -


123 g fat (45 saturated)

56 g protein

414 g carbs

So to get 200g protein you need about 11,000 calories. Sweet.

[eriram]

I still want to know how much money the OP got scammed out of by the clean eating scam.

Quite a lot of time wasted. Wasted 3 years of my life eating 'clean' only to be disappointed in more ways than one. Time spent worrying weather this meal was clean enough when eating out with the family. Time wasted not eating foods that I enjoy. And we all know time is money. I've made better gains with a relaxed approach.

and before you say I was doing it wrong, I signed up with two separate coaches. two well respected coaches and I struggled to gain mass. I won't say their namesso don't ask. I have nothing bad to say about them.

it wasn't until I consulted with Alan that my whole outlook changed, for the better. and I think he can vouch I work hard.

[Scooter4]

Strong rep to post ratio OP, lol.

[eriram]

That guy is ripped but he hardly has any mass on him. Not exactly the best example supporting that perspective imo.

Being ripped but only at roughly 150-160lbs isn't exactly a unique or special situation. Remember this is bodybuilding. You gotta have mass as well as the definition.

Being a monster with both mass and definition is a very hard thing to achieve, thus why you see very few people with that look at most of your gyms. You don't get that way by constantly eating poorly.

Wait so hes not big enough, always somethin. Well what about JC?

[trance__dreamer]

Ronald McDonald, is that you?

hahahahahahahahahaha.



^^ strong bulk.

[moneymango]

I've eaten a hamburger and pizza everyday on this bulk. Also had some ice cream. Hit my macros everday too.

[seanb1979]

Wait so hes not big enough, always somethin. Well what about JC?

JC is pretty ripped, IMO

[eriram]

This forum has jumped the shark in almost every way imaginable.

Speaking of jumping the shark. The Fonz was on Jim Rome yesterday...classic

[yoyoyoimdave]

10$ says MrMcCarthy is fat irl.

[MrMcCarthy]

10$ says MrMcCarthy is fat irl.

$1000 says I don't give a **** what you think.

[Trillios]

10$ says MrMcCarthy is fat irl.

And if he is? Who cares? He knows his ****. It's like saying a dietitian doesn't know anything because he's fat. And as odd/common a scenario that may be it still isn't true.

[RobocopIsBack]

I wrote my term paper using the arguments presented in this lengthy, but well appreciated thread.

[adydanger]

For me, eating clean means hitting my macros (and making sure there's enough fibre/not too much salt, saturates etc).

Pretty much every Friday I have seafood nachos with a load of tortilla chips, cheddar cheese, king prawns, jalpenos, spring onions etc. Always manage to fit it into my macros plus it keeps me sane.

[yoyoyoimdave]

fat people shouldn't mutter on these types of diets unless they have self sufficient proof. This thread is too far along for repair.
cals in cals out.

night.

[ErickStevens]

As an Aragon acolyte, I felt obliged to drop this AA quote all up in here:

"I often reminisce about having a pint of Hagen Daaz (discontinued flavor: honey vanilla or New York Superfudge Chunk) every single night right before bed. This of course was after I biked to school, then biked to work, then biked my ass back home. I would make a stop at 7-11 and get the beloved pint of ice cream. I was leaner than I ever was in my life."

[ZenBrah]

JC is pretty ripped, IMO

dem aesthetics.

[energenetic]

Again, I'll extend standing invitation to anyone to explain why pizza isn't 'clean.'

FIRST:
what constitutes 'clean', and for whom is this constituted? what is this persons goals?

you're posting this on a bodybuilding forum, so considerations will be different depending whether your audience is sculpting, powerlifting, training for a triathalon or sports, trying to lose weight, or trying to ensure a prolonged, healthy life. also, does this person have any health conditions? should 'clean' take into account a family history of heart disease, or high blood pressure?

clean, seems like a subjective term that, when used so vaguely, will certainly elicit a vast array of emotional responses from such a broad audience.

SECOND:
what's on the pizza? what's the portion? how often is it eaten during the week (srs, not throwing out the twinkie for B-L-D extreme argument)? are you arguing they just need to meet their macros? if so, i revert back to the 'FIRST' section, who this is for, as macros don't take excess sodium, sugars, or preservatives* into account (correct me if i'm wrong here - i could be). also, while i'm thinking about it, terms like 'moderation' should be avoided on this forum.

*yes, i left out transfat

THIRD:
just curious, but what are you hoping to accomplish here? i apologize if i missed it, but throughout this thread, i've failed to find a solid, well thought-out argument; one that took the aforementioned things into consideration so as to avoid these snarky and frustrated remarks you take issue with.

[katosan]

FIRST:
what constitutes 'clean', and for whom is this constituted? what is this persons goals?

you're posting this on a bodybuilding forum, so considerations will be different depending whether your audience is sculpting, powerlifting, training for a triathalon or sports, trying to lose weight, or trying to ensure a prolonged, healthy life. also, does this person have any health conditions? should 'clean' take into account a family history of heart disease, or high blood pressure?

clean, seems like a subjective term that, when used so vaguely, will certainly elicit a vast array of emotional responses from such a broad audience.

SECOND:
what's on the pizza? what's the portion? how often is it eaten during the week (srs, not throwing out the twinkie for B-L-D extreme argument)? are you arguing they just need to meet their macros? if so, i revert back to the 'FIRST' section, who this is for, as macros don't take excess sodium, sugars, or preservatives* into account (correct me if i'm wrong here - i could be). also, while i'm thinking about it, terms like 'moderation' should be avoided on this forum.

*yes, i left out transfat

THIRD:
just curious, but what are you hoping to accomplish here? i apologize if i missed it, but throughout this thread, i've failed to find a solid, well thought-out argument; one that took the aforementioned things into consideration so as to avoid these snarky and frustrated remarks you take issue with.

Go back a page, Alan pretty much summed this thread up.

[energenetic]

Let me begin by challenging anyone to hit their macros on burgers, fries, shakes, & soft drinks. It won't happen. Hitting your macros is almost a self-regulating "diet cleaner". Getting some variety across the food groups helps, especially if you plan on getting enough fiber to crap with any comfortable level of regularity. I also think that making a conscious effort (not a neurotic one) to have a variety of foods hedges your bets in the direction of long-term health. In practice, roughly 10-15% of your total calories (daily or weekly - your choice) coming from whatever you damn well want does not significantly hamper progress, and in many cases actually helps. I'll write a long-winded article about it for WBB soon. Bless those guys for their patience in waiting for articles from me.

Go back a page, Alan pretty much summed this thread up.

thanks, but i was actually addressing hooked4life and his statements as he's lead what might be considered the opposition here, or at least what everyone might agree as the unpopular argument within the context of bodybuilding.

also, no disrespect to alan, but i think the statement above is what many would consider common sense with regards to nutrition, particularly for the masses (ie. not bodybuilders) and does little to support or refute the 'eat clean' argument that myself and many are trying to make sense of here - but i could be wrong. in my opinion, the absent axiom of what constitues 'clean' and who the target audience is, is a bad foundation for this debate and what i think needs clarification. i think once this is done, you'll have a lot more contibutors here agreeing. in fact, most of the 'clean' eaters here mention cheat meals (there's your hedge-betting), so the agreement may already be implicit.

[hooked4life]

FIRST:
what constitutes 'clean', and for whom is this constituted? what is this persons goals?

No idea, and that's the point. I asked for a list of dirty food, and I got the standard bro list of dirty food. I picked on pizza - nobody can say why it's dirty because it's not. But, you can be guaranteed that it's on every bro list of dirty food. You're making exactly my point here.

you're posting this on a bodybuilding forum, so considerations will be different depending whether your audience is sculpting, powerlifting, training for a triathalon or sports, trying to lose weight, or trying to ensure a prolonged, healthy life. also, does this person have any health conditions? should 'clean' take into account a family history of heart disease, or high blood pressure?

Would it matter on any of those? If so why.

clean, seems like a subjective term that, when used so vaguely, will certainly elicit a vast array of emotional responses from such a broad audience.

Yup!

SECOND:
what's on the pizza? what's the portion? how often is it eaten during the week (srs, not throwing out the twinkie for B-L-D extreme argument)? are you arguing they just need to meet their macros? if so, i revert back to the 'FIRST' section, who this is for, as macros don't take excess sodium, sugars, or preservatives* into account (correct me if i'm wrong here - i could be). also, while i'm thinking about it, terms like 'moderation' should be avoided on this forum.

Two pieces of medium sized pizza with nothing nuts on them. Every day. Trainee is a decent muscled male who works out regularly. I detailed this in the question.

*yes, i left out transfat

Thank you.

THIRD:
just curious, but what are you hoping to accomplish here? i apologize if i missed it, but throughout this thread, i've failed to find a solid, well thought-out argument; one that took the aforementioned things into consideration so as to avoid these snarky and frustrated remarks you take issue with.

Look around the threads of on this forum and I think you'll be able to figure out why I would want people to not be insane about food.

Also, I'd add you've not even attempted to explain why the pizza would be bad.

[hooked4life]

in fact, most of the 'clean' eaters here mention cheat meals (there's your hedge-betting), so the agreement may already be implicit.

cheat would be going past/under the calories/macros you need for the day.

[energenetic]

Also, I'd add you've not even attempted to explain why the pizza would be bad.

Once 'clean' is defined, and for whom, then i will provide a clear argument why it is bad.. OR i'll provide one why it isn't. I'm indifferent on the issue. In fact, I hate either/or's and may argue neither, but I'm unable to do that at this point.

Providing I understand your intent ITT, which I've tried to make clear is considerably difficult, i'm not challenging your point. I'm merely stating that i cannot answer your question until it is clearly defined.

I have taken into consideration that you are trying to make a subtle point using vagueness as a tool, but given the last 15 pages, and your consistancy, i've since rule that out.