Using quads during deadlifts

[SionX]

Just wondering how many of you use your quad muscles during the initial phase of the deadlift the way Rippetoe preaches. Specifically the sumo deadlift. I was reading an article by Eric Cressey who reckons PC strength should only be used the whole movement. I find that doing the latter I can lift the weight easier of the floor but my back rounds a lot more. I am an aspiring powerlifter whose obvious goal is to lift more weight and although lifting with the quads at the start feels more correct and safer it is MUCH harder to move the weight of the ground. Just wondering your opinions on this?

[breathinglife]

To be honest, I don't particularly analyze which muscles are working. As long as your form looks correct, I wouldn't worry about quad involvement, especially if it's hampering your lift.

[SionX]

Is this form ok? This was when I was using quads in the way Rippetoe describes:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kvJ0R...layer_embedded

[G20C]

I think about grabbing the bar and then pushing my legs through the floor while holding the bar.

[breathinglife]

Is this form ok? This was when I was using quads in the way Rippetoe describes:

You don't look like you have any serious form issues, but since sumo is a more technical stance, I'm sure that there are a lot of sumo deadlifters here who could advise you. I've never done sumos seriously, so I'm not the best source.

[guest89]

Does Rippetoe even teach the sumo deadlift? I know he teaches the conventional pull for Starting Strength.




Do you have a link to where Rippetoe says to use the quads? I can't remember reading anything about it in SS (granted its been awhile). I always pull conventional with high hips, with minimal leg involvement. H/E I never bother to think about whether or not my quads are involved.

[Fluster]

I'm not sure where you're getting your information from, I think you've got the wrong end of the stick somewhere - Like guest89 said, Rip doesn't teach sumo for starters, from my limited experience with sumo, I'm not sure that they are involved to a great extent at all.

Conventional on the other hand, depending on your leverages and assuming you aren't a complete SLDL quadrospaz, can use loads of quad.

[TurtleApe]

Your form looks fine to me, kind of reminds me of myself. We both start with our hips pretty high. Heres the most recent video I have

Like others said it doesn't look like you have any huge flaw in your form, if everything feels comfortable I don't see a problem

[/JV/]

I'm not sure which article you read to but I recently watched Cressey's deadlift video and he didn't talk about quads on the sumo deadlift. One point he did make was to not drop your hips down and try to squat the weight up, but that doesn't sound like what you're referring to.

[Mike Zero]

You should never be using your quads as a primary mover in sumo deadlift.

But for conventional, go for it if they are strong enough. I use mine heaps.

[SionX]

You don't look like you have any serious form issues, but since sumo is a more technical stance, I'm sure that there are a lot of sumo deadlifters here who could advise you. I've never done sumos seriously, so I'm not the best source.

Cheers man I think I was leaning to far back at lockout but my main concern is getting the weight off the floor which is the usual limiting factor in the sumo version

Does Rippetoe even teach the sumo deadlift? I know he teaches the conventional pull for Starting Strength.


Do you have a link to where Rippetoe says to use the quads? I can't remember reading anything about it in SS (granted its been awhile). I always pull conventional with high hips, with minimal leg involvement. H/E I never bother to think about whether or not my quads are involved.

I think he talked about letting the quads "do their job" in his book "Strong Enough" where he essentially said when the knees straighten out they must actually have lifted the bar as a pose to letting the hips do all the work. I assume this is more conventional (which I don't do) and yeah Rip doesn't teach sumo for SS (something I personally disagree with). Some also disagree about not lifting with a rounded upper back.

http://www.elitefts.com/DOCUMENTS/DE...WITH_STYLE.HTM

This is the page that got me thinking - there are indeed 2 lifting styles. The style where you lift with your quads at the start - harder but "safer" and the style where you lift with your hips only - much easier but greater risk of rounding lower back.

I'm not sure where you're getting your information from, I think you've got the wrong end of the stick somewhere - Like guest89 said, Rip doesn't teach sumo for starters, from my limited experience with sumo, I'm not sure that they are involved to a great extent at all.

Conventional on the other hand, depending on your leverages and assuming you aren't a complete SLDL quadrospaz, can use loads of quad.

Yeah leverages is the reason I used sumo from the start. Short arms/long legs is no go for conventional.

Your form looks fine to me, kind of reminds me of myself. We both start with our hips pretty high. Heres the most recent video I have

Like others said it doesn't look like you have any huge flaw in your form, if everything feels comfortable I don't see a problem

I'll try and upload a video where I do the style of lifting only with my hips.

I'm not sure which article you read to but I recently watched Cressey's deadlift video and he didn't talk about quads on the sumo deadlift. One point he did make was to not drop your hips down and try to squat the weight up, but that doesn't sound like what you're referring to.

Makes sense to me. Heres the article and bit he mentioned:

http://www.t-nation.com/free_online_...lift_diagnosis

The hips can be too low. This might seem contrary to the last point, but I have to admit, I'm glad that this problem exists. Why? Well, for starters, it's hilarious to watch someone try to "squat up" a deadlift with their quads! Plus, it gives me an opportunity to once again reiterate how much stronger — yet unappreciated — the posterior chain is than the all-show-and-no-go quadriceps.

When you push your hips way back to get more knee flexion, you move the fulcrum (the point about which a lever rotates — in this case, it's the hip joint) away from the bar, therefore increasing the lever arm of the resistance. Minus the biomechanics lingo, this simply means that the bar becomes a lot heavier for your posterior chain to handle as you move it further away from your hip joint.

Solutions: Start your pull with the hips higher and hammer on the posterior chain. Then you'll have no reason to want to use the quads when pulling. Oh yeah, don't pull in front of mirrors, either. You'll be too tempted to check out your quads, you narcissistic pansy.

You should never be using your quads as a primary mover in sumo deadlift.

But for conventional, go for it if they are strong enough. I use mine heaps.

[Mike Zero]

Wow, you're such a good deadlifter and you just pwnd me with a fag-nation article. It's impossible to use your quads more and not sit back any further eh? /obv sarcasm is obv

[SionX]

I wasn't attacking you mate I just posted links because people wanted links. No need to be so immature

[Mike Zero]

Wait, you're the OP? You ask for advice and when you hear what it seemed like you wanted to hear you rebutal with a link?

[Mike Zero]

I wasn't attacking you mate I just posted links because people wanted links. No need to be so immature

Sorry, my team losing + foruming = snarky posts. I don't understand why you quoted me though.

[SionX]

What exactly did I want to hear? Like I said people wanted links so I gave them links. I also never claimed to be a good deadlifter (my crappy numbers speak for themselves)

[Mike Zero]

Ok,

I think the idea of quads being "all-show-no-go" comes from the fact that they aren't used much in so called "functional" circumstances i.e. running, jumping etc. The quads are very strong you shouldn't be afraid to use them in the conventional deadlift by setting up a bit further away from the bar and pushing your knees forward to reach starting position (making the first movement similar to a leg press). Note that the quads come into play significantly when the knee tracks forward, when the knee stays over the heel even though there still might be a fair bit of knee extension most of the force will go through the hips and hammies.

In a perfect world we could use our quads in the sumo deadlift, but it is much more advantageous to push your knees outwards as far as possible to get your hips closer to the bar. Incidentally, this is gunna take your quads out of the momevement and put the stess on the hips, hammies and adductors. So if you feel your quads moving in the sumo deadlift, you're probably not doing it right.

P.S. Don't take anything Rippetoe writes too seriously, IMO

[SionX]

Ok,

I think the idea of quads being "all-show-no-go" comes from the fact that they aren't used much in so called "functional" circumstances i.e. running, jumping etc. The quads are very strong you shouldn't be afraid to use them in the conventional deadlift by setting up a bit further away from the bar and pushing your knees forward to reach starting position (making the first movement similar to a leg press). Note that the quads come into play significantly when the knee tracks forward, when the knee stays over the heel even though there still might be a fair bit of knee extension most of the force will go through the hips and hammies.

In a perfect world we could use our quads in the sumo deadlift, but it is much more advantageous to push your knees outwards as far as possible to get your hips closer to the bar. Incidentally, this is gunna take your quads out of the momevement and put the stess on the hips, hammies and adductors. So if you feel your quads moving in the sumo deadlift, you're probably not doing it right.

P.S. Don't take anything Rippetoe writes too seriously, IMO

Sounds good to me :thumbsup I kind of suspected that all along. Cuz obviously the quads are in a more mechanically advantageous position in the starting position of the conv deadlift whereas they aren't activated as much in the sumo simply because they are so far apart. The way i did it before I basically did a massive hip entension but ended up with the hitching effect when I went heavy and although I was lucky enough not to hurt myself it didn't feel healthy at all!