fat loss while building muscle

[pipprovis]

Me and a lifting buddy of mine were debating this the other day. I am currently trying to lose body fat but I want to bulk up and get stronger at the same time. Is this possible? Hewas using simple logic saying that weight loss involves taking in less calories and bulking up requires taking in more calories. Has anyone had experience with losing body fat while gaining muscle and strength? I am currently ingesting about 2500 calories, 280 grams protein per day with 5-8 hours lifting a week and 5 hours of cardio (including two days of heavy mountain biking). Thanks.

[nondualism]

This question is asked at least once a day in just about every forum except 'misc'.

[PrezzinWH8]

It is very possible. Is it ideal? No. Can it be done? Yes. Most people on this site have A.d.d and dont have the patience to accomplish it. They will do it for week and quit when they look in the mirror and dont see arnold staring back.

[Wilioli]

I'm curious as well, what's the deal, its possible but how?

[Wilioli]

Also (i hope this is the right place to ask this) can this fat loss - muscle gain be accomplished if I was to be doin the Starting Strength program?

[Parajoe]

I'll try to answer your question. I'm a noob also, but it's been working for me.

If your maintenance cals are 2000, eat that. Try to obtain all of your macro's from real food if you can, if not, supplement. But stay at 2000 cals. Lift. Find a good program. I don't know anything about Starting Strength. I'm using All Pro's beginner routine and my lifts are going up. I'm getting stronger. I'm losing weight at the same time. Probably because I'm a beginner. The more muscle you have, the more fat you burn doing nothing.

[wowz]

Yes it is possible but it is less efficient than bulking and cutting separately.

When trying to do both at the same time, it is hardly possible to find the right balance that is effective. Your diet may allow you to gain muscle fast, but loose fat slow. Or loose weight fast, but gain muscle slow. As I said, it is hard to determine the right balance.

If you seperate the two into different phases, you will gain muscle (bulk) faster because there will be no "bottlenecking" from your diet. Then when you cut, you will loose fat more efficiently as well.

Either way, you will get to your goal if you work at it hard enough, but doing them separately, you will reach your goal quicker.

[kdbrown]

www . muscleandstrength . com/workouts/24-doug---s-5-day-high-definition-routine . html

I've lost 15 pounds on this routine and have gained mass as well. Alot has to do with your supplementation as well. protein is great. Too much can hurt your kidneys. make sure you drink AMPLE water. It's what you're body is made out of. Try to drink 100 ounces a day. or like 6 bottles. Creatine is great if you're using a creapure based creatine, for instance, my creatine of choice is Optimum Nutrition Micronized creatine powder. It's tasteless, mixes well, and works. I mix it right in with my pre-workout (jack3d) so I don't use more than 5g because jack3d has creatine as well.

here's the main point though. Patience. It's a learning game. I struggle just as much as anyone else. But when you see results, it should pump you up, even if it's not what you're expecting. Have fun with it. Sculpting your body shouldn't be a chore. Eat right, pump hard, supplement right and you're be there in no time.

[Mlupi319]

Yes, mainly has to do with diet. I would be in at least a 500 calorie deficit per day diet plan (1lb a week) for at least 1 week, then switch to a 500 calorie surplus per day for at least another week (1lb a week gained). Depending on your goals/body type, you can "cut"/"bulk" for 2 weeks and do the other for only 1 week. This plan requires you to be very strict with your diet as you are rotating 2 separate diets plans.

That would be for gaining muscle and losing fat. Personally i tried it and it was a little too complicated for me, i rather stick to a single diet for at least 2 months. With that said you can maintain and gain strength (not size) while losing fat. I gained strength in all lifts (very slowly) as i cut 60lbs. i went from 215 to 155 and my bench did almost the exact reverse of those numbers going from 155 to 210 over a period of ~10months. typically gaining strength and losing fat is much easier than gaining muscle and losing fat.

[dave213]

I am currently getting started trying to cut weight while bulking up, and from my experience it might take longer than first loosing weight and then focusing on bulking up, at least for me.

[dravin77]

Yes, mainly has to do with diet. I would be in at least a 500 calorie deficit per day diet plan (1lb a week) for at least 1 week, then switch to a 500 calorie surplus per day for at least another week (1lb a week gained). Depending on your goals/body type, you can "cut"/"bulk" for 2 weeks and do the other for only 1 week. This plan requires you to be very strict with your diet as you are rotating 2 separate diets plans.

That would be for gaining muscle and losing fat. Personally i tried it and it was a little too complicated for me, i rather stick to a single diet for at least 2 months. With that said you can maintain and gain strength (not size) while losing fat. I gained strength in all lifts (very slowly) as i cut 60lbs. i went from 215 to 155 and my bench did almost the exact reverse of those numbers going from 155 to 210 over a period of ~10months. typically gaining strength and losing fat is much easier than gaining muscle and losing fat.

So i'm 5'11 i weigh 275 pounds, body fat 30 percent. I've been lifting for about 2 months. My starting weight was 330 pounds. My goal weight is 200, but my short term goal is 230. How much weight training and cardio would you suggest a week. I'm also having trouble with my diet. I get so much different advice, more carbs, more protein, less calories, more calories. I want to know what you did, cause you seem to make it work, drop weight and gain strength. I didn't lift weights when I dropped from 330 to 285. I've been at 265 to 275 the last two months while i've been lifting.

[Eleven4]

It is possible... I did it myself. I'm not talking ultimate performance hardcore building but gaining mass on an aesthetic level and loosing some unsightly podge too.

My aim was and still is bi+triceps, chest, shoulders and abs in terms of building and my annoying problem was I noticed that when I had no top on and sat in a chair, I had a roll of belly podge pushed up on the top of my trousers, that week after week, started hanging over. Not good. On holiday I found myself straining my abs to stop my belly from wobbling, when the rest of me was toned.

I have a pretty basic workout really, a standard 3 set 5-7 rep workout of incline dumbell press and flat bench press, dumb and barbell curls, hammer curls, military press then some push-ups and crunches if I'm in the mood. Followed by a whey protein shake, with a carb meal an hour before. This took about 2 weeks of 3 times a week workouts to notice the difference.

For loosing the belly wobble, I did the debatable and somewhat contraversial pre-breakfast cardio (4 or 5 times a week) and it did work for me. In the morning before eating anything, I'd just drink some water then go straight on the treadmill at slow jog pace (not enough to get me too out of breath) for about half hour. Then I just ate some toast for breakfast and maybe a small scoop of whey protein. This on top of the normal weight training, eating real food for meals and snacks and cutting out all sweets, crisps, chocolate, fizzy drinks etc. meant I lost a lot of the belly wobble within the 1st 2 weeks.

I used to get the same 'trimming' effect from a week of snowboarding in the alps, where I only ate a piece of bread now and then and just consumed loads of water, on top of really intense cardio from boarding. Its harder at home but with some dedication and discipline it is possible to loose fat and gain muscle at the same time, just not on a hardcore level as many pro's would probably have to sacrifice a few of their supplements in order to lose fat.

Remove the rubbish food and get a program going, maybe try the pre-breakfast cardio too. You'll only get anywhere if you stick at it!

[joeyp0805]

Me and a lifting buddy of mine were debating this the other day. I am currently trying to lose body fat but I want to bulk up and get stronger at the same time. Is this possible? Hewas using simple logic saying that weight loss involves taking in less calories and bulking up requires taking in more calories. Has anyone had experience with losing body fat while gaining muscle and strength? I am currently ingesting about 2500 calories, 280 grams protein per day with 5-8 hours lifting a week and 5 hours of cardio (including two days of heavy mountain biking). Thanks.

There is alot involved with building muscle with losing fat mostly it the right supplements
You need a post work out drink, Beta alanine and Creatine AND MOST IMPORTANT IS BCAA
follow me on Infinitelabs.com Face book I post every day and you can always ask a questions

[Acevedo85]

carb cycling

[Mastodon471]

Me and a lifting buddy of mine were debating this the other day. I am currently trying to lose body fat but I want to bulk up and get stronger at the same time. Is this possible? Hewas using simple logic saying that weight loss involves taking in less calories and bulking up requires taking in more calories. Has anyone had experience with losing body fat while gaining muscle and strength? I am currently ingesting about 2500 calories, 280 grams protein per day with 5-8 hours lifting a week and 5 hours of cardio (including two days of heavy mountain biking). Thanks.

Im gonna have to agree with what most people will say. You would be better off jus bulking then eventually cutting. but if u are looking for both at the same time... the only advise i can give u is to take less time between reps. keep ur heart rate up and stick to a high protien diet. try and cut back on the carbs.

[TheWunNOnly]

its possible but it would be way easier to just do one at a time. one thing i might suggest though is supersetting even though you dont really gain strength from it but it can pack on some pretty good quality muscle and melt fat away pretty darn good. i wouldnt suggest doing it too much though. theres too much too explain about it that i dont feel like getting into right now, so if you dont know what it is i suggest you do a little research on it to get the general idea.

i would leave a link but i dont have enough posts to do so. but yea i hope this helped a little bit.

[iOneup]

I was 17 stone of fat when I started out and spent 70% of my time doing cardio somewhat 6 days a week then I got a kettlebell which helped to do both causing me to become leaner I am now 12 stone in my current picture.. but now I wish to tone my abs and put on some more weight it. It does work but it's a hard balance

[Chuck2600]

Did anyone see the movie "I want to look like that guy"? If I remember correctly the guy started with a bulking phase that lasted 5 months, at the end of it his bf% went down by 8%. His progress which was measured by doctors showed that he lost 8lbs of fat and gained 8lbs of muscle during his bulk. (Also he was over the age of 40)
I started getting back into the gym just over 7 months ago, my weight has gone up by 2lbs since I've started. My bf% on the other hand has gone down significantly. While I can't say exactly what it was it was definitely over 20% and while I can't say for sure what it is now it is definitely between 14-16%. I had a large tire around my stomach when I started to get back into lifting now I can barely grab a handful of fat. My measurement at the naval was just over 40", now it's 35".
From my experience it is very possible. If you look at the scivation studies they did on XTEND it showed the people gained 8lbs of muscle and lost 4lbs of fat over a 2 month period. While I'm sure this probably had more to due with proper diet and training my point is they still made muscle gains while losing fat.

[jamanga]

yea search button

[gluteusmax]

There is alot involved with building muscle with losing fat mostly it the right supplements
You need a post work out drink, Beta alanine and Creatine AND MOST IMPORTANT IS BCAA
follow me on Infinitelabs.com Face book I post every day and you can always ask a questions

The leading German consumer safety group tested several protein shakes and came to the conclusion that BCAA don't have any effect.

My protein shake also has BCAAs, but is there any scientific proof that they are working?

[everblue]

I'm curious as well, what's the deal, its possible but how?

It's possible due to our different metabolic pathways. If you are on a high protein low/no carb diet, your body has a low blood glucose level in your system. Your body compensates for this mainly by fat burning (beta oxidation). Your body also uses a little bit of the protein in muscles that you are not using for energy as well (remember the phrase: you lose what you don't lose). Your body will burn the fat for the energy it needs. If you go to the gym and lift weights, you are tearing up the muscle cells. When you sleep, the protein digested to amino acids will travel to the muscle cell and is used for the repairing of the muscle cells (this is how muscle is "built"). As you can see, these pathways are "kind of" independent of each other. I only say kind of because when you consume carbohydrates and stimulate an insulin response, the insulin transports the glucose to muscle cells which causes the muscle cell to become more permeable to amino acids. This is why people tend to do "bulks" it's easier for people who have a more catabolic metabolism dogma.

Hope this answered your question

[Wilioli]

It's possible due to our different metabolic pathways. If you are on a high protein low/no carb diet, your body has a low blood glucose level in your system. Your body compensates for this mainly by fat burning (beta oxidation). Your body also uses a little bit of the protein in muscles that you are not using for energy as well (remember the phrase: you lose what you don't lose). Your body will burn the fat for the energy it needs. If you go to the gym and lift weights, you are tearing up the muscle cells. When you sleep, the protein digested to amino acids will travel to the muscle cell and is used for the repairing of the muscle cells (this is how muscle is "built"). As you can see, these pathways are "kind of" independent of each other. I only say kind of because when you consume carbohydrates and stimulate an insulin response, the insulin transports the glucose to muscle cells which causes the muscle cell to become more permeable to amino acids. This is why people tend to do "bulks" it's easier for people who have a more catabolic metabolism dogma.

Hope this answered your question

appreciate the reply/answer.

[kusok]

It's possible due to our different metabolic pathways. If you are on a high protein low/no carb diet, your body has a low blood glucose level in your system. Your body compensates for this mainly by fat burning (beta oxidation). Your body also uses a little bit of the protein in muscles that you are not using for energy as well (remember the phrase: you lose what you don't lose). Your body will burn the fat for the energy it needs. If you go to the gym and lift weights, you are tearing up the muscle cells. When you sleep, the protein digested to amino acids will travel to the muscle cell and is used for the repairing of the muscle cells (this is how muscle is "built"). As you can see, these pathways are "kind of" independent of each other. I only say kind of because when you consume carbohydrates and stimulate an insulin response, the insulin transports the glucose to muscle cells which causes the muscle cell to become more permeable to amino acids. This is why people tend to do "bulks" it's easier for people who have a more catabolic metabolism dogma.

Hope this answered your question

Bro science ^^^

You're defying thermodynamics. They are called LAWS of thermodynamics for a reason. And by the way, the body uses DIETARY FAT, not YOUR BODY fat when you eat less carbs.

[Wilioli]

Bro science ^^^

You're defying thermodynamics. They are called LAWS of thermodynamics for a reason. And by the way, the body uses DIETARY FAT, not YOUR BODY fat when you eat less carbs.

i'm pretty sure when you eat less carbs, the body needs to release stores of energy FROM BODY FAT, to use as dietary fat when in state of high demand activity (working out). Otherwise body fat would be a permanent addition. right?

[kusok]

i'm pretty sure when you eat less carbs, the body needs to release stores of energy FROM BODY FAT, to use as dietary fat when in state of high demand activity (working out). Otherwise body fat would be a permanent addition. right?

No.

Calories in, calories out.

Even if you eat more carbs and less fat the body will release energy from your fat cells all the same. A calorie is a calorie is a calorie. You will not trick your body into doing anything differently by swapping 200 calories from fat for 200 calories from carbs or vise versa.

In fact (unless one has poor insulin sensitivity or some other problem) fat is a worse energy source than carbs, so your work-out will be less productive, and thus you will burn less fat and build less muscle.

[Wilioli]

No.

Calories in, calories out.

Even if you eat more carbs and less fat the body will release energy from your fat cells all the same. A calorie is a calorie is a calorie. You will not trick your body into doing anything differently by swapping 200 calories from fat for 200 calories from carbs or vise versa.

In fact (unless one has poor insulin sensitivity or some other problem) fat is a worse energy source than carbs, so your work-out will be less productive, and thus you will burn less fat and build less muscle.

a side note first -- i'm not tryin to argue you at all, or tryin to pick a fight, just tryin to clarify things here so things aren't as you stated -- "broscience".

If you eat more carbs and less fat the body will release energy from your fat cells the same. How? You're eating more carbs -- it takes more energy to release energy from fat cells -- which is why u get more energy from fat cells -- IF THEY ARE RELEASED. So the body favours the 'easier reaction' -- carbs. Is this not why we stay away from carbs?

you're right, the body won't be tricked by swapping 200 calories from fat for carbs (vice versa) but the body will be tricked -- if there are not enuff calories from an immediate source (carbs) -- to go into the so called reserve stash and start breakin that down. Hence production of ketones.

[kusok]

a side note first -- i'm not tryin to argue you at all, or tryin to pick a fight, just tryin to clarify things here so things aren't as you stated -- "broscience".

If you eat more carbs and less fat the body will release energy from your fat cells the same. How? You're eating more carbs -- it takes more energy to release energy from fat cells -- which is why u get more energy from fat cells -- IF THEY ARE RELEASED. So the body favours the 'easier reaction' -- carbs. Is this not why we stay away from carbs?

you're right, the body won't be tricked by swapping 200 calories from fat for carbs (vice versa) but the body will be tricked -- if there are not enuff calories from an immediate source (carbs) -- to go into the so called reserve stash and start breakin that down. Hence production of ketones.

A calorie is a unit of energy, carbs and fat are not. Your body doesn't care if the calorie came from fat or carbs or protein, it's just a calorie.

Eat more calories than you burn and you will gain weight, eat less calories and you will lose weight, 2nd law of thermodynamics. No way around it by lowering or upping your carb/fat intakes or changing the ratios.

The only change you might experience is your work-out intensity, which will be based on your individual tolerance to carbs.

Some of the reasons people reduce carbs are:
- idiocy
- 10 lbs loss of water weight, which makes people THINK they lost fat
- increased protein consumption without realizing it, which keeps people more full, so they eat even less calories thus losing more weight etc.
- helps control cravings
- because they heard it on Larry King or some other bro science retard source
- poor tolerance to carbs


With shortage of carbs your body will NOT more likely use your bodyfat. Your body will use more DIETARY fat and protein. NOT YOUR BODYFAT. Your body will use more bodyfat when there is shortage of CALORIES regardless of wether they are from carbs OR fat or protein.

[theGuy045]

I'm curious as well, what's the deal, its possible but how?

magic

[Wilioli]

A calorie is a unit of energy, carbs and fat are not. Your body doesn't care if the calorie came from fat or carbs or protein, it's just a calorie.

Eat more calories than you burn and you will gain weight, eat less calories and you will lose weight, 2nd law of thermodynamics. No way around it by lowering or upping your carb/fat intakes or changing the ratios.

The only change you might experience is your work-out intensity, which will be based on your individual tolerance to carbs.

Some of the reasons people reduce carbs are:
- idiocy
- 10 lbs loss of water weight, which makes people THINK they lost fat
- increased protein consumption without realizing it, which keeps people more full, so they eat even less calories thus losing more weight etc.
- helps control cravings
- because they heard it on Larry King or some other bro science retard source
- poor tolerance to carbs


With shortage of carbs your body will NOT more likely use your bodyfat. Your body will use more DIETARY fat and protein. NOT YOUR BODYFAT. Your body will use more bodyfat when there is shortage of CALORIES regardless of wether they are from carbs OR fat or protein.

arite, i totally understand everything you are saying. naturally if you give up carbs for another source of energy, u are just giving up energy for.. .energy... calories for calories are you are saying. Thats fine, we can totally agree on that. But this 1:1 ratio is not the same if we're talking about energy consumption rates, break down rates, whatevever you want to call it -- RATE. This is where there is a difference. 1 gram of carb is the same as 1 gram of protein -- but its not really at all the same. You cannot just substitute the word energy for each of the three (fat, protein, carb) and refer to them all to be the same.

[kusok]

arite, i totally understand everything you are saying. naturally if you give up carbs for another source of energy, u are just giving up energy for.. .energy... calories for calories are you are saying. Thats fine, we can totally agree on that. But this 1:1 ratio is not the same if we're talking about energy consumption rates, break down rates, whatevever you want to call it -- RATE. This is where there is a difference. 1 gram of carb is the same as 1 gram of protein -- but its not really at all the same. You cannot just substitute the word energy for each of the three (fat, protein, carb) and refer to them all to be the same.

For sure ^^^ . Each macro has it's own distinct way in which it effects out body. Protein keeps us more full and repairs muscle, carbs are better for energy, fat balances hormones etc. But basically what I'm getting at is that I can't believe that many people really think that cutting out something like fruit and putting in olive oil instead will suddenly cause our bodies to burn bodyfat for fuel... I mean come on...