New study on the E in ECA > mediocre approx. +40kcal in RMR

[VEight]

Agreed.

Fish oil is a much better at controlling blood pressure, IMO, plus there are the other numerous health benefits to consider...

Wasn't talking about BP. Aspirin is supposed to reduce stimulant resistance, not sure if this has been proven though.

[Illadelphia]

Wasn't talking about BP. Aspirin is supposed to reduce stimulant resistance, not sure if this has been proven though.

Broscience

[VEight]

Glad to hear that. Do you suggest ECY then or just EC?

[Illadelphia]

Glad to hear that. Do you suggest ECY then or just EC?

yohimbe is horrible. I've never felt worse in my entire life.

EC (pure eph) and a basic caff pill (4everfit or prolab) works best imo.

I'd toss around the idea of ECRK but i've not seen anything significant enough in my research to prove synergy between the 3.

[Starkk]

Glad to hear that. Do you suggest ECY then or just EC?

Don't mix ephedrine and yohimbine

Just EC is fine. If you want to add something, Lean Xtreme compliments it quite effectively.

[whitesox23]

I take EC mainly because it aids in retaining lean mass when dieting via caloric deficit

EC was first medically used in aid of rapid fat loss on bedridden hospitalized fat asses. it was used so there wasn't a debilitating amount of muscle loss with such rapid weight loss.

Does anyone know exactly how EC aids in retaining muscle in a defecit? Also less muscle loss=more fat loss in the same defecit. We all know EC murders appetite, and the caffeine boosts metabolism slightly, but is there anymore fatloss pathways? I've heard one of the other (E or C) are beta-2 agonists, but I could be wrong...

sounds pretty crappy 2lbs per month? thats pretty much withing the margin of error you can easily lose 2lbs more a month just if you exercise slightly harder or ate a little less calories. also its says weightloss not fatloss so you wont lose two coffee-cup sized blobs of nasty yellow fat you will lose 2lbs of water,muscle,fat. i thought ECA stack results were supposed to be alot better then this.

^Has never used EC

yohimbe is horrible. I've never felt worse in my entire life.

EC (pure eph) and a basic caff pill (4everfit or prolab) works best imo.

I'd toss around the idea of ECRK but i've not seen anything significant enough in my research to prove synergy between the 3.

Yohimbe is awful. Sides>>>benefits for sure but Yohimbine HCL and Alpha Yohimbine are both much cleaner and basically side free...

[Romac]

to the people saying 2lbs per month isn't significant - i think you are missing the point - the point is that when you cut for a month you shed an extra 2.2lbs for free

when you get down to 8% bodyfat after cutting for 2 months come back here and tell me how insignificant an extra 4.4lbs of fat would be to you at that point - it's pretty huge considering how hard it is for most people to lose any fat at that point

2 months of ECwhatever = 4 times this (for free - well free as far as effort goes):

[Romac]

while we're on the subject - i just found a study that was performed on professional soccer players (super-fit sobs!) that showed an average additional body fat% drop of 3% vs a placebo group in 21 days purdy darned significant also

http://imbodybuilding.com/articles/yohimbe/?p=1 (page 2 mentions the study but does not give raw results which i found on another bb forum but i don't wish to break rules by linking here)

i think i might try that since i don't feel like paying $18 to ship $14 worth of ephedrine from canada - i've always purchased the vasopro stuff from bbing.com - god damned weaklings dying and ****ing everything up for the rest of us.

[whitesox23]

2 months of ECwhatever = 4 times this (for free - well free as far as effort goes)

Actually less effort as it makes eating in a defecit MUCH easier...

god damned weaklings dying and ****ing everything up for the rest of us.

Dyings for amateurs

[shadar]

sounds pretty crappy 2lbs per month? thats pretty much withing the margin of error you can easily lose 2lbs more a month just if you exercise slightly harder or ate a little less calories. also its says weightloss not fatloss so you wont lose two coffee-cup sized blobs of nasty yellow fat you will lose 2lbs of water,muscle,fat. i thought ECA stack results were supposed to be alot better then this.

2lb isn't much???? Wtf??? That's huge! You clearly have been led astray reading way too many supp adds promoting 16lb muscle gain and loss etc per month. 2lb of additional loss from EC is crazy good.

2.2 extra pounds per month is pretty significant, especially because EC is muscle sparing. Also, this is just adding in EC. Over the typical 8-16 week cut, that is a 4.4-8.8 pound difference. That saves you 4-8 weeks alone. If that is pure fat, that is quite substantial. (assuming you started your cut around 15-18% bodyfat)

I thought EC was not muscle sparing?

Interesting, I thought I saw somthing NO HYPE said that contradicted that, but I may have misunderstood.

EC is not muscle sparing, this has been covered before. I do not have the thread it was brought up in but I believe in10city, pinch and nohype have all weighed in on it numerous times.

[BIGOGW90]

dude. If you ever question the sheer awesomeness of eca again. Askem will hunt you down and kill you in your sleep.


In before fish oil prescription

^this!

[32gOfNattyPB]

Why not use clen rather than ephedrine. They both hit the same receptors and clen is WAY cheaper and only has to be taken once a day.

[Romac]

Why not use clen rather than ephedrine. They both hit the same receptors and clen is WAY cheaper and only has to be taken once a day.

clen is cheaper than ephedrine? ephedrine is 4.99 a bottle, but now that's about double since we have to get it shipped from canuckica

i'd partake in clen in a heartbeat if i could figure out a reputable place to get it from - that stuff works miracles - maybe alberto contador can hook me up (TDF winner that got pinched for it recently)

[rhadam]

ITT: Things we already know about ephedrine.

Thanks.

[FunkymonkAW]

Why not use clen rather than ephedrine. They both hit the same receptors and clen is WAY cheaper and only has to be taken once a day.

Clen isn't legal for human consumption, and long term sides are potentially greater.

[Romac]

ITT: Things we already know about ephedrine.

Thanks.

lol sorry man - next time i have a question about anything bb related i'll just send you a pm

[LightForce]

lol sorry man - next time i have a question about anything bb related i'll just send you a pm

I appreciate you bumping this old thread, i learned something from reading it.

People will complain whether you bump an old thread or ask a question, so what exactly are the forums for then?

Q: I thought EphedRA was the one to get not EphedRINE. Am I missing something, I read somewhere EphedrINE isn't as good as EphedRA.

[rhadam]

lol sorry man - next time i have a question about anything bb related i'll just send you a pm

My post was directed at the original post/study and the forthcoming comments. I didn't see it was from last year, and in no way was i posting @ you.

[FunkymonkAW]

I appreciate you bumping this old thread, i learned something from reading it.

People will complain whether you bump an old thread or ask a question, so what exactly are the forums for then?

Q: I thought EphedRA was the one to get not EphedRINE. Am I missing something, I read somewhere EphedrINE isn't as good as EphedRA.

You want ephedrine

[Mr.Cooper69]

Don't feel like reading (on phone), can someone please clarify. They say an extra 2 pounds were lost a month when compared to placebo. But one thing is notably missing: did the test subjects track their calories, and were they all eating at the same caloric deficit? Point being I think the extra 2 lbs of fat loss is simply due to appetite suppression, and since most subjects don't track their calories, the results were evident. For serious bodybuilders who track their calories and eat at a set deficit on a cut, I see no such benefit as you will be hitting the same caloric deficit each day, with or without appetite suppression.

[Mr.Cooper69]

EC is not muscle sparing, this has been covered before. I do not have the thread it was brought up in but I believe in10city, pinch and nohype have all weighed in on it numerous times.

Eh? Please find it if you can, you've piqued my interest.

[rhadam]

Don't feel like reading (on phone), can someone please clarify. They say an extra 2 pounds were lost a month when compared to placebo. But one thing is notably missing: did the test subjects track their calories, and were they all eating at the same caloric deficit? Point being I think the extra 2 lbs of fat loss is simply due to appetite suppression, and since most subjects don't track their calories, the results were evident. For serious bodybuilders who track their calories and eat at a set deficit on a cut, I see no such benefit as you will be hitting the same caloric deficit each day, with or without appetite suppression.

No need to clarify, you nailed it. Appetite suppression will only have an effect on those that don't track calories.

[Mr.Cooper69]

No need to clarify, you nailed it. Appetite suppression will only have an effect on those that don't track calories.

Yes I understand that, just wondering, in the full study, do they mention anything about maintaining a constant deficit among all subjects? I'm trying to see if the extra 2.2 lbs is from appetite suppression or EC's effects on metabolism and fatloss pathways.

[rhadam]

Yes I understand that, just wondering, in the full study, do they mention anything about maintaining a constant deficit among all subjects? I'm trying to see if the extra 2.2 lbs is from appetite suppression or EC's effects on metabolism and fatloss pathways.

Ah, rgr. Here's copy/paste regarding diet.

2.5. Diet
Prior to attendance for the study, each participant’s daily energy expenditure within the calorimeter was predicted using an estimate of BMR from the regression equations of Schofield [19] scaled to account for sedentary activity, and with an addition for the cost of programmed exercise. Diets were prescribed to match these individual predictions. Diets were presented as three meals of equal energy content and composition, with 35% of energy as fat, 13% as protein, and 52% as carbohydrate. Decaffeinated drinks were provided ad libitum, but the associated energy was fixed by the provision of a standardised milk allowance and low-energy sweeteners.

BUT, it also says this at the beginning:

2.3. Study Design
Participants attended on two occasions separated by 2 weeks. The days of the study visits are identified as follows: Day 1, Day 1, Day 2, Day 14, and Day 15. Two participants were studied at each visit. Alcohol, caffeine, and strenuous exercise were prohibited 48 hours prior to the first visit and throughout the study.

Participants arrived fasting at 08:00 on Day 1. Breakfast was given at 09:45 and lunch at 13:30. Following lunch, body composition was measured by dual-energy X-ray absorptiometry (DXA; GE Lunar Prodigy, GE Healthcare, Madison, WI, USA) and by BOD POD (Life Measurement Inc., Concord, CA). Dinner was served at 19:00. After dinner, participants were fitted with an ActiHeart combined activity and heart rate monitor (CamNtech Ltd., Cambridge, UK). The ActiHeart monitors were worn until the end of the visit. At 20:00, each participant entered a room calorimeter, where he remained until 09:00 on Day 2.


Which leads me to believe the only times their diets were mandated were the few days they went in to be studied/tested. If i'm reading this right.

[xlb57]

Don't mix ephedrine and yohimbine

Just EC is fine. If you want to add something, Lean Xtreme compliments it quite effectively.

Agreed. LX + EC = Good things.

[itzDodge]

I thought EC was not muscle sparing?

Yes I understand that, just wondering, in the full study, do they mention anything about maintaining a constant deficit among all subjects? I'm trying to see if the extra 2.2 lbs is from appetite suppression or EC's effects on metabolism and fatloss pathways.

From my knowledge a large benefit of EC is it's impact on cAMP, obviously appetite suppression being right up there too. It's boost in calories burned throughout the day would be no more then 100 at best.

Edit: Although I could be going full retard and confusing something else I heard.

[halberstram]

I though anything that was beta agonist atomically makes it muscle sparing?

[whitesox23]

I though anything that was beta agonist atomically makes it muscle sparing?

That makes sense as more % fat burned = less % muscle burned, in the same caloric defecit correct? Also, my above question wasn't answered. EC is NOT muscle sparing? Also, are the only pathways it hits the slight metabolism boost and appatite supression? Sorry if this is an old question...

[Nailbomb9]

u guys mad I live in Canada and can get it for $5 at the local supp store

Where do you think I order mine from?

[Cryptic]

most of the ECA crap i see says Ephedra Extract (leaves)


what brand/lab can I get that isint this?