New study on the E in ECA > mediocre approx. +40kcal in RMR

[Massa007]

Its August 2010, years after Ephedra has been banned from the supplement marked, the words "ephedrine" and "ECA" can still be heard, whenever people chat about weight loss supplements. A new study by Napolitano et al. (Napolitano. 2010) may explain why this is the case. Stated simply: Ephedrine works! But its effects on the basal metabolic rate is much less pronounced than some nostalgics would have it; at least according to the results of the following study:

Assessment of Acute and Chronic Pharmacological Effects on Energy Expenditure and Macronutrient Oxidation in Humans: Responses to Ephedrine

Antonella Napolitano,1 Peter R. Murgatroyd,2 Nick Finer,2 Elizabeth K. Hussey,3 Robert Dobbins,3 Steve O'Rahilly,2 and Derek J. R. Nunez3

Abstract

Evidence of active brown adipose tissue in human adults suggests that this may become a pharmacological target to induce negative energy balance. We have explored whole-body indirect calorimetry to detect the metabolic effects of thermogenic drugs through administration of ephedrine hydrochloride and have assessed ephedrine's merits as a comparator compound in the evaluation of novel thermogenic agents. Volunteers randomly given ephedrine hydrochloride 15 mg QID (n=8) or placebo (n=6) were studied at baseline and after 1-2 and 14-15 days of treatment. We demonstrate that overnight or 23-hour, 2% energy expenditure (EE) and 5% fat (FO) or CHO oxidation effects are detectable both acutely and over 14 days. Compared to placebo, ephedrine increased EE and FO rates overnight (EE 63 kJ day 2, EE 105 kJ, FO 190 kJ, day 14), but not over 23 h. We conclude that modest energy expenditure and fat oxidation responses to pharmacological interventions can be confidently detected by calorimetry in small groups. Ephedrine should provide reliable data against which to compare novel thermogenic compounds.

for further info + graphs either check the full text > http://www.hindawi.com/journals/jobes/2011/210484.html

or the new item on my blog > http://suppversity.blogspot.com/2010...metabolic.html

what could be of greater interest to dieters than the overall calorie expenditure is the shift in substrate metabolism they scientists report:

The energy expenditure increments were associated with increments in fat oxidation which reached significance when chronic treatment was compared to the untreated state.

before you buy the next best "ECA" product from your local retailer make sure it is not "Ephedra leave extract" = worthless, alkaloid-free bull****

[askem]

Ok.

[JW58]

Dude. If you EVER question the sheer awesomeness of ECA again. Askem will hunt you down and kill you in your sleep.


In before fish oil prescription

[MonkeyBusiiness]

Thanks for the tip, preciate it.

[Massa007]

Dude. If you EVER question the sheer awesomeness of ECA again. Askem will hunt you down and kill you in your sleep.


In before fish oil prescription

if you had had a look at what I wrote you would notice that neither I nor the scientists question the "sheer awesomeness of ECA"

a) the study is about E alone, C will certainly add to the effec
b) the "awesomeness" is the synergism of substrate metabolism, mediocre increase in metabolic rate, appetite suppresion and energy levels above normal even with reduced caloric intake

^that being said, ECA is still awesome, but those ECA products you can still buy OTC contain no E

[askem]

Dude. If you EVER question the sheer awesomeness of ECA again. Askem will hunt you down and kill you in your sleep.


In before fish oil prescription

Lolwut

[serjioc]

E combined with caffeine is what creates the fat burning effects.

[r1ddl3r]

if you had had a look at what I wrote you would notice that neither I nor the scientists question the "sheer awesomeness of ECA"

a) the study is about E alone, C will certainly add to the effec
b) the "awesomeness" is the synergism of substrate metabolism, mediocre increase in metabolic rate, appetite suppresion and energy levels above normal even with reduced caloric intake

^that being said, ECA is still awesome, but those ECA products you can still buy OTC contain no E

Sida cordifolia is a nice alternative. ECA works, and it's not the increase in the metabolic rate that is the point. Appetite suppression in far more valuable on a caloric deficit

[User6763672]

u guys mad I live in Canada and can get it for $5 at the local supp store

[Massa007]

Sida cordifolia is a nice alternative. ECA works, and it's not the increase in the metabolic rate that is the point. Appetite suppression in far more valuable on a caloric deficit

^what I said. More energy = more calories burnt in the gym; less appetite = less caloric intake over the day; overall: GR8T for fat loss

[mobikwa]

u guys mad I live in Canada and can get it for $5 at the local supp store

u mad anyone in the US can too? Except we get it at pharmacies, which if I'm not mistaken, are far more abundant and plentiful than supp stores.

[Massa007]

being from the EU I must now pose the (stupid?) question: do you need a script for broncaid?

[Bluerex]

being from the EU I must now pose the (stupid?) question: do you need a script for broncaid?

negative, you just have to ask for it, similar to Claritin D

[2Burnt]

nice info, but not really pertinent to the stack that is used. apples and oranges. but still good to see real posts every once in awhile.

[Massa007]

nice info, but not really pertinent to the stack that is used. apples and oranges. but still good to see real posts every once in awhile.

thanks for the compliment. if you are interested in E+C you may refer to one of the older studies, e.g.

Int J Obes Relat Metab Disord. 2002 May;26(5):593-604.
Herbal ephedra/caffeine for weight loss: a 6-month randomized safety and efficacy trial.

Boozer CN, Daly PA, Homel P, Solomon JL, Blanchard D, Nasser JA, Strauss R, Meredith T.

New York Obesity Research Center, St Luke's-Roosevelt Hospital and Columbia University, New York 10025, USA.
Abstract

OBJECTIVE: To examine long-term safety and efficacy for weight loss of an herbal Ma Huang and Kola nut supplement (90/192 mg/day ephedrine alkaloids/caffeine).

DESIGN: Six-month randomized, double-blind placebo controlled trial.

SUBJECTS: A total of 167 subjects (body mass index (BMI) 31.8+/-4.1 kg/m(2)) randomized to placebo (n=84) or herbal treatment (n=83) at two outpatient weight control research units.

MEASUREMENTS: Primary outcome measurements were changes in blood pressure, heart function and body weight. Secondary variables included body composition and metabolic changes.

RESULTS: By last observation carried forward analysis, herbal vs placebo treatment decreased body weight (-5.3+/-5.0 vs. -2.6+/-3.2 kg, P<0.001), body fat (-4.3+/-3.3 vs. -2.7+/-2.8 kg, P=0.020) and LDL-cholesterol (-8+/-20 vs. 0+/-17 mg/dl, P=0.013), and increased HDL-cholesterol (+2.7+/-5.7 vs. -0.3+/-6.7 mg/dl, P=0.004). Herbal treatment produced small changes in blood pressure variables (+3 to -5 mm Hg, P< or =0.05), and increased heart rate (4+/-9 vs. -3+/-9 bpm, P<0.001), but cardiac arrhythmias were not increased (P>0.05). By self-report, dry mouth (P<0.01), heartburn (P<0.05), and insomnia (P<0.01) were increased and diarrhea decreased (P<0.05). Irritability, nausea, chest pain and palpitations did not differ, nor did numbers of subjects who withdrew.

CONCLUSIONS: In this 6-month placebo-controlled trial, herbal ephedra/caffeine (90/192 mg/day) promoted body weight and body fat reduction and improved blood lipids without significant adverse events.

PMID: 12032741 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]Free Article

the reason I liked the new study was that it did a) exclude the effects of caffeine and b) measured the effect on energy expenditure (and not weight loss) < that was "new"

[Romac]

sorry to resurrect this oldish thread, but it's probably the most informed one i've seen, and i've been unable to find what i'm looking for

i'm trying to find a study that compares an average fat and/or weight loss of a placebo group and a group on eca

what i want to know is how much more weight and/or fat is lost on eca

i've gobbled at least 6 bottles of ephedrine in the past 15 years while i've been in various "cut" modes in the form of an eca stack but am wondering if it's really been much of a help before i go an order a bunch more

if being on the stack all day everyday for a month means i'll lose just an extra pound of fat, i might pass - 2 pounds of pure fat would probably motivate me to place another order

so anyone have an actual figure from a study? me rep you long time!

[Romac]

Doh! found it...and man did i ever have to dig DEEP!! (j/k)

"A meta-analysis combining results from all available studies estimated average weight loss of 1 kg/month more than placebo." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ECA_stack

1kg = 2.2lbs which volume-wise equates to about two coffee-cup sized blobs of nasty yellow fat

i'll stfu and go order some now...

[VEight]

E combined with caffeine is what creates the fat burning effects.

^That. And the A is what elicits further effects.

[wayprotein]

Doh! found it...and man did i ever have to dig DEEP!! (j/k)

"A meta-analysis combining results from all available studies estimated average weight loss of 1 kg/month more than placebo." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ECA_stack

1kg = 2.2lbs which volume-wise equates to about two coffee-cup sized blobs of nasty yellow fat

i'll stfu and go order some now...

sounds pretty crappy 2lbs per month? thats pretty much withing the margin of error you can easily lose 2lbs more a month just if you exercise slightly harder or ate a little less calories. also its says weightloss not fatloss so you wont lose two coffee-cup sized blobs of nasty yellow fat you will lose 2lbs of water,muscle,fat. i thought ECA stack results were supposed to be alot better then this.

[slimwealthy1]

sounds pretty crappy 2lbs per month? thats pretty much withing the margin of error you can easily lose 2lbs more a month just if you exercise slightly harder or ate a little less calories. also its says weightloss not fatloss so you wont lose two coffee-cup sized blobs of nasty yellow fat you will lose 2lbs of water,muscle,fat. i thought ECA stack results were supposed to be alot better then this.

2.2 extra pounds per month is pretty significant, especially because EC is muscle sparing. Also, this is just adding in EC. Over the typical 8-16 week cut, that is a 4.4-8.8 pound difference. That saves you 4-8 weeks alone. If that is pure fat, that is quite substantial. (assuming you started your cut around 15-18% bodyfat)

[halberstram]

2.2 extra pounds per month is pretty significant, especially because EC is muscle sparing. Also, this is just adding in EC. Over the typical 8-16 week cut, that is a 4.4-8.8 pound difference. That saves you 4-8 weeks alone. If that is pure fat, that is quite substantial. (assuming you started your cut around 15-18% bodyfat)

Exactly, 2.2lbs of pure fat makes a massive visual difference especially if already have relatively low fat.

[cjwav34]

2.2 extra pounds per month is pretty significant, especially because EC is muscle sparing. Also, this is just adding in EC. Over the typical 8-16 week cut, that is a 4.4-8.8 pound difference. That saves you 4-8 weeks alone. If that is pure fat, that is quite substantial. (assuming you started your cut around 15-18% bodyfat)

I thought EC was not muscle sparing?

[Starkk]

I thought EC was not muscle sparing?

I take EC mainly because it aids in retaining lean mass when dieting via caloric deficit

[slimwealthy1]

I thought EC was not muscle sparing?

EC was first medically used in aid of rapid fat loss on bedridden hospitalized fat asses. it was used so there wasn't a debilitating amount of muscle loss with such rapid weight loss.

[cjwav34]

I take EC mainly because it aids in retaining lean mass when dieting via caloric deficit

EC was first medically used in aid of rapid fat loss on bedridden hospitalize fat asses. it was used so there wasn't a debilitating amount of muscle loss with such rapid weight loss.

Interesting, I thought I saw somthing NO HYPE said that contradicted that, but I may have misunderstood.

[Illadelphia]

^That. And the A is what elicits further effects.

Wrong.

[slimwealthy1]

Interesting, I thought I saw somthing NO HYPE said that contradicted that, but I may have misunderstood.

If you can find that be sure to post it so I can know that I am misinformed

[Starkk]

Wrong.

Agreed.

Fish oil is a much better at controlling blood pressure, IMO, plus there are the other numerous health benefits to consider...

[wayprotein]

2.2 extra pounds per month is pretty significant, especially because EC is muscle sparing. Also, this is just adding in EC. Over the typical 8-16 week cut, that is a 4.4-8.8 pound difference. That saves you 4-8 weeks alone. If that is pure fat, that is quite substantial. (assuming you started your cut around 15-18% bodyfat)

thats assuming you are losing exactly 2lbs a week you can easily lose more then that just from regular diet and exercise. what im saying is that study said only 2lbs more then control group theres enough difference between people where 2 people can do the same exact diet and exercise and still wind up with a 2lb difference between people. heck my weight varies by like 2-5lb's just throughout the day. the only real benefits i see from EC stack is if its is actually muscle sparing i could see that being helpful or if your bf% is already very low and your having alot of trouble getting it lower.

[JJ22]

thats assuming you are losing exactly 2lbs a week you can easily lose more then that just from regular diet and exercise. what im saying is that study said only 2lbs more then control group theres enough difference between people where 2 people can do the same exact diet and exercise and still wind up with a 2lb difference between people. heck my weight varies by like 2-5lb's just throughout the day. the only real benefits i see from EC stack is if its is actually muscle sparing i could see that being helpful or if your bf% is already very low and your having alot of trouble getting it lower.

It's a supplement to a sound diet and exercise plan. Fatloss in greater proportions than muscle is worth it. Consider the price, effects and relative safety of EC, it's a no brainer for a fatloss phase.