End of Controversy...Starting Strength Reviews

[HunterMC6]

Ran SS once before my latest injury:

Don't remember dates exactly and my notebook is at my buddies house where I train but here is what I do remember.

Squats 115 --> 215
Bench 115 --> 190
Deadlift 115 --> 300
OHP 65 --> 125
Cleans 95 --> 135

These are all 3x5 yes the cleans I screwed up on, started out doing rows and then didnt realize the routine calls for 5x3 I believe on these.

Pros: Added a lot of strength and packed on some weight, was also playing a lot of basketball around this time and my vertical skyrocketed. I was able to get rim with one hand which was pretty cool. The program is easy to follow and I love how you can see the progress easily on the scale and by seeing yourself add weight to the bar every session.

Cons: Can get a little stale doing the same thing over and over. This one might just be me but part of my injury was probably due to my form breaking down on some of these lifts which is really no fault of the program but mentally I want to keep adding weight to the bar to prove I can do it and I think it took my focus away from doing the proper form. This is obviously a mental game I played with myself but some inexperienced lifters might have the same problem.


So I recently injured my back and had been out of the lifting game for 2 to 2.5 months. I am now back on SS hoping to catch up to where I was and surpass those lifts. This time more focused than previously and also going to work on getting my form correct right from the start. Filming myself on a weekly basis and posing videos to the exercise section as well as in my journal.

Come follow my progress if you need proof of this program working: http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showth...#post940371513

[shamsta]

(1)Dates - December '12 to April ' 13

(2)Beginning 3x5 Weights/Ending 3x5 Weights:
Squat - 185/305
Bench - 110/205
Dead - 115/335 (1x5)
OHP - 75/135
Cleans - 45/150 (5x3)

(3) Pros: I felt I've became more athletic, I can strangely run faster, and jump higher. Also I started seeing abs? idk and i feel stronger.

(4) Cons: dem hips, knee, and elbow pains :/

[Nexxus]

I did SS when I first started lifting in 2009. Forgot what weights I started and ended with but they definitely at least doubled and maybe even tripled as I could barely bench the bar when I started and I could bench over around 1.5 plates when I was done with it.

It's definitely a great program for novices that I would recommend to anyone wanting to start lifting and learn the basic movements. It is also great because it teaches people that more time spent in the gym does not necessarily mean more results. It gets you started in learning how to program a good program and will build a great base from which any novice can escalate to an intermediate and beyond.

[MS1SpiderMan]

I have a pretty solid neuro-muscular connection due to years of sports, martial arts training, and weight training experience, so this review doesn't represent a true newbie lifter's results. However, it has been one of the most successful programs I've ever run, and the most solid I've felt in years. For example, I ran the iBodybuilder program by T-Nation when I was 21, but after teaching for a month and a half in Kenya, most of those gains were gone. I then trained solely for kickboxing for one year. At 22, I started teaching and ended up in a Motorcycle accident in October 2012, which prohibited me from anything other than minimal fitness training. Following my cast removal, I spent a week in the hospital with a severe intestinal infection in December 2012. Finally, when I turned 23 in March of 2013, I was able to eat a full diet once again and began bodybuilding/strength training again. I started with 5/3/1, but switched to starting strength in late May of 2013, as I could feel I didn't have the foundation to make true gains from 5/3/1. Here are my results thus far:

Weight I used to start the program to current best:
Bench: 135x5 to 190x5
Squat: 135x5 to 225x5 (ass to grass)
Military Press: 95x5 to 140x5
Deadlift: 135x5 to 305x5
Clean: 95 to 125x5 (I don't always use this lift. Sometimes I just work on my DL form instead)

Pros: love the program, feel good on it, and I believe it has taught me the most about proper form, linear progression, and deloading.

Cons: would like to see more growth in my arms, but I'm pleased overall so far because after my accident, it has taken a long time to regain my back strength to support pull-ups, etc.

How to interpret the data: seeing the short amount of time I've been on the program and factoring in 2 weeks of pneumonia in mid-June, one can see that proper form focus is the basis of true gains. From the research I've done, proper form promotes maximum growth because it targets the maximum amt of muscles possible in the lift. This being the case, I'm excited to see how much further I can push/run the program. I'm currently on the advanced novice program. One may argue it is too soon to change the format, but I work full time and study for my LSAT's at night. When I'm sleeping an average of more than 5hrs/night, I will increase intensity/volume.

[freshelfpie]

Started 8/5/2013
Still doing SS 9/18/2013 Phase 2 (w/ Power Cleans). Progress so far:

Squat 75/165
Press 75/110
BenchPress 110/150
PowerClean 110/130
Deadlift 145/260

50 year-old novice, bodyweight 240, approx 35% bodyfat, so though I am not running a cut/deficit, I am NOT doing GOMAD and 4000kcal a day. Diet as "clarified" by Rippetoe for bigger/fatter folks like me, is around 3500kcal, between 200 and 300 grams of protein a day. Part of that is whey shakes with aminos for recovery.

Pros: PRs on every workout (I don't shoot for 1RM PRs, just 5RM),
building lots of muscle in legs / shoulders / chest. Very happy with my squat and deadlift numbers.

Cons: have knee issues (ACL replacement / patellar tendon graft in 2010), so will soon be moving on to phase 3 where the deadlift is no longer every other workout. Ambivalent about this as I love seeing that number go up! This is an intense program, the increases are sometimes VERY hard.

Overall score: A-. Program designed to put mass/muscle on skinny teenagers, but works well for older novices as well.
Cheers all!

[dk240t]

(1) Started 1/28/12 at age 30 and ended novice programming (SS and variants with once/week deadlifting and light squat days) 8/28/13 at 31.
(2) Starting lifts: Squat 100x6x3, Bench 95x6x3, Deadlift 95x6x3, Press 55x5, 65x5, 55x5 (don't know why I did sets of 6 that day and jumped up and back down on Press), Power cleaned 65x3x5 (poorly). Dips for sets of 5 first time I did them and could do 5 chin-ups in a set initially.
Ending lifts: Squat 295x5x3 and 300x5, Bench 202.5x5x3 and 205x5, Deadlift 335x5 and 345x4, Power clean 160x3, Press 136.25x5x3 or 137.5x5. Dips for (BW+55)x8x3 and (BW+75)x8. Chin ups up to 9 reps bw, (bw+10)x5x4, and (bw+45)x1. Pull ups to 7 reps.
Starting weight: 163, end weight ~190.
(3) Pros: Taught me the lifts and form, got me the practice, built an awesome base of strength, added muscle, fixed a lot of mobility issues from sedentary life along the way, taught me how to train and program. Nice, simple programming with lots of practice on the most important lifts and regular progression driving strength and muscle goals. Also, SS programming is a great way to build back up strength from a layoff due to whatever reasons. Starting strength really is the fastest way to build generally useful strength, and you build muscle, too. Anyone claiming you will get stronger faster using some other programming is lying or trying to sell you something.
(4) Cons: As you get further along, workouts become really long, you can't recover from the squat workouts in time for the next ones (so you go to adding in light days), and the regular high intensity, moderate volume did wear down on me. I needed a lower volume, lower intensity program after the first time I completed it. Especially long and exhausting when I added in regular chins and dips. Also doesn't do a good job scratching most people's nervous itch to do different exercises and try different things. But for me, setting new PRs regularly was my way of "doing something different" each time, and I tried out a few other exercises at the end of workouts for various reasons and that was fine, as long as I didn't do too much and let it burn into my recovery and workout time for what was important.

Below is a graph of my progress on SS. I reviewed progress in my log, post 293. http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showth...hp?t=143963661 I have since increased my lifts substantially on subsequent rebuilding run of SS and then Texas Method - just squatted 340x5 and benched 235x5 on TM intensity day, and have deadlifted 375x5, 395x3, and 405x1

[dk240t]

Starting strength is a good workout program. But I do think it is a rip of because Mark Rippetoe neglects the biceps and the abs for some reason I don't know why. And he also neglects Calves. I'm just on his program and just started now. I can only bench 70 pounds and OHP is 40, squat is 50, Deadlift 90, I didn't even get through the PowerCleans because I was so worn out from the squats. Hopefully I will do more but I am still wondering why Rip only focuses on chest, Back, shoulders and thighs.

Ugh. You can't even press the bar and you are worried about separate work for biceps? You squat barely more than the bar but you think you need more calf work?

The program is not a chest, back, shoulder, thigh workout. It is a full body, full body, full body, and full body workout.

Why don't you try actually doing the program before complaining about what it doesn't work. If you do the program, especially if you add in chin-ups after a while, your arms will get bigger. I never do isolation work and my wife loves my new arms I built using SS and TM, with chin-ups, dips, and bench being my primary arm work.

[Jordoz]

How are there reviews in this thread that say they did SS and then stopped after three months when their squat was at 250lbs and it was great? I hope you kept going.

[Woody-5]

How are there reviews in this thread that say they did SS and then stopped after three months when their squat was at 250lbs and it was great? I hope you kept going.

Lots of legit reasons:

Not everyone's goal is to rep 3-4 plate squats and chase numbers, so they move to a different program that's more conductive to their goals

I've seen some people who run into form issues with heavier weights and pushing for new 5RM lifts every single session in those circumstances is asking for Injury. Something like the Texas method may work better since you can use more manageable weights for the volume day (and nail form) and just shoot for that 5RM once per week
Someone looking to cut some is going to have trouble maintaining progression for long while in a calorie deficit

[justroberson]

How are there reviews in this thread that say they did SS and then stopped after three months when their squat was at 250lbs and it was great? I hope you kept going.

Unpopular opinion around here but i agree.

Can't believe i never posted in this thread before. My original run of SS a few years ago (worksets):

Squat 135 > 310
Bench 135 > 240
Deadlift 225 > 365
Press 95? > 155
Power Clean 95 > 215

When I first did SS I ran it poorly, tried to add too much stuff, wasn't even squatting right (the bar was too far up my back to be true low bar)... and this is with the book. I had hip flexor issues from all the squatting, got golfers elbow from low bar. It was quite a ****show. And yet i still managed to finish with those numbers.

Recently after some cutting, 531 for many months, and a few injuries, I re-ran SS to regain lost strength. I finished with (worksets):

Squat 385
Bench 260
Deadlift 405
Press 175
Power Clean 225

Starting Strength can be pushed way further than a lot of people are willing to go. You don't have to fat-fuk yourself or dedicate your life to lifting. It just takes good nutrition, will power, attention to form and being able to be in the gym for ~2 hours every time. IMO there are no real flaws with the program. As long as your goal is to get very strong very quickly (not to be a bodybuilder), you are not too old (teens and twenties seem to be optimal), you actually read the book and DTP properly, and you're not a retard, you should be successful with it.

[Jordoz]

Unpopular opinion around here but i agree.

Can't believe i never posted in this thread before. My original run of SS a few years ago (worksets):

Squat 135 > 310
Bench 135 > 240
Deadlift 225 > 365
Press 95? > 155
Power Clean 95 > 215

When I first did SS I ran it poorly, tried to add too much stuff, wasn't even squatting right (the bar was too far up my back to be true low bar)... and this is with the book. I had hip flexor issues from all the squatting, got golfers elbow from low bar. It was quite a ****show. And yet i still managed to finish with those numbers.

Recently after some cutting, 531 for many months, and a few injuries, I re-ran SS to regain lost strength. I finished with (worksets):

Squat 385
Bench 260
Deadlift 405
Press 175
Power Clean 225

Starting Strength can be pushed way further than a lot of people are willing to go. You don't have to fat-fuk yourself or dedicate your life to lifting. It just takes good nutrition, will power, attention to form and being able to be in the gym for ~2 hours every time. IMO there are no real flaws with the program. As long as your goal is to get very strong very quickly (not to be a bodybuilder), you are not too old (teens and twenties seem to be optimal), you actually read the book and DTP properly, and you're not a retard, you should be successful with it.

I too didn't DTP my first go around. I realise now that I wasn't warming up properly, didn't find my starting weight properly, wasn't eating properly and then I complained when I started stalling. I still managed to get my squat up to 270, but I believe most people run into problems from NDTP. I am going back to SS in about 10 weeks. Hoping to reach a 350 squat, 250 bench, and 400 DL in about 8 months. I'll be starting light as.

[Mooeda]

First time post; hope I don't get into trouble for "reviving" a year-old thread. I have been lifting on and off for years but decided to go with SS after about 3 years of inactivity (currently 29yrs old). I had never done squats or deadlifts prior to starting the program so I spent a good deal of time trying to work on the lifts. Had some hip flexor issues due to poor form on the squat which prevented me from squatting for 3 weeks. Afterwards I decided to start the squat almost from scratch again in order to ensure proper form. I never recorded my starting numbers so I'll just put my SS starting stats:

Duration: 3.5 months and going...
BW: 170-189lbs
Height: 5'11"-5'11"
Squat: 45-215lbs 5x3
Deadlift: 135-270lbs 5x1
Bench: 45-185lbs 5x3
O/H Press: 45-115lbs 5x3
Pull/Chin-ups: Bodyweight 5x3- Bodyweight+25lbs 7x3 (total of ~45lb increase if you factor in increased BW)

I have yet to incorporate cleans into the program but am seriously considering adding them in a couple of weeks or so, especially once the DL starts to plateau. Also, although the program calls for sets of 15 for Pull-ups/Chins, I like to keep them in the low rep range and add weight. So two "deviations" to the program but otherwise pretty much a SS routine. I also added some light ab work on non-deadlift days.

Diet was on point and rest averaged around 7hrs per night. 3,500-4k calories per day split between 6 meals. I increased almost 20lbs, of which I estimate about 10lbs came from muscle 5-6lbs from fat and another 4-5lbs from water weight (creatine). Overall my definition has improved as the muscles have grown and fat percentage has only slightly edged up higher.

PROS: I can seriously say that the linear gains are impressive. I can easily see myself breaking, in a matter of months, previous PRs that took years to reach. If you're primarily interested in strength, this is definitely the way to go. Also, the online community is excellent; you can find tons of information either in the book or online. Gains seem to be in the form of dense muscle which makes you look strong without looking "bulky". The new muscle gain is pretty well distributed and your core definitely toughens up big time. The simplicity of the program allows you to focus on a few exercises which, in turn, allows you to better fine tune your form (which is a MUST). Also, setting new PR week after week serves as great motivation.

CONS: You need to find a barbell friendly gym, or make your own home gym, which allows for extended rest periods (up to 7m between some challenging sets); be ready for ugly stares from some people waiting to use the equipment. You will put on some fat running the program as cardio is all but non-existent (other than that produced by the lifts). If you want to look ripped, you will have to definitely factor in a cutting phase at some point. Finally, and most importantly, you have to, HAVE TO, ensure you're eating right and getting enough sleep. I included this as a con since the inability to get this part of the program right will prevent you from keeping the linear progression and, as such, will greatly reduce the effectiveness of the program (although this can be said about most other programs as well).

All in all, I most definitely recommend this program to novices as well as people looking to add strength or to change things up from a split type routine. Continued gains from the program come from striving to achieve proper form, training consistently, eating properly and getting enough rest. If you follow the program with that in mind, you're guaranteed to see results.

[ivan619]

is this starting strnjth for real? i been lfing bodybuilding normal spilt 2 muscle a day fo a year
this is my numbers.. its been almsot 12 month
squat satrted as 65 kilo for 8 reps now i do 95 reps for 3 reps
bench started as 65 for 6 reps now 85 kilo for 5 reps
row using dumbell started 25 kilo for 10 now i use the 50 kilo for 10 reps
pull up started 0 now 6
dips 0 now almsot 15
now iw anna know could i do better using ur ss
started 225 blbs fat now 190 lbs kinda healthy
help

[WolfRose7]

Yes you'll probably get better results on starting strength or the other novice routines in this forum.
My bench has gone from 45-60kg in two months on one such routine, that's with a two week deload in the middle.

[grouchyjarhead]

is this starting strnjth for real? i been lfing bodybuilding normal spilt 2 muscle a day fo a year
this is my numbers.. its been almsot 12 month
squat satrted as 65 kilo for 8 reps now i do 95 reps for 3 reps
bench started as 65 for 6 reps now 85 kilo for 5 reps
row using dumbell started 25 kilo for 10 now i use the 50 kilo for 10 reps
pull up started 0 now 6
dips 0 now almsot 15
now iw anna know could i do better using ur ss
started 225 blbs fat now 190 lbs kinda healthy
help

Most likely. Of course you could still run SS right now and make progress too if you tried.

[BG5150]

Here's Mark's attempt to deflect some criticism of the program. It's pretty much a "my way or the highway" approach, but he makes some good points.

startingstrength.com/articles/clarification_rippetoe.pdf