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  1. #1
    Registered User fellipe's Avatar
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    Are carbs kind of unnecessary?

    So the best, no matter if bulking or cutting, would be a high protein (from lean sorces), high fat (from good sources), low carb diet (generally around workout)?

    Makes any sense?

    I mean is it the best way to do a cutting, losing only fat or do a good and clean bulking?
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  2. #2
    Registered Registrant frank112's Avatar
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    Best for cutting imo. Not best for bulking. You use up carbs during your workouts, not fat so on a bulk, it's good to have those stores.
    Start (fat guy):May 31 2009 - 205lbs ~34%bf
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  3. #3
    Registered User Idgaf's Avatar
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    agreed. Go a couple days without carbs and workout. I guarantee you'll feel sluggish.
    "Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter, and those who matter don't mind."
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  4. #4
    Registered User fellipe's Avatar
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    I did not mean 0 carbs ^^ just more fat than carbs.
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  5. #5
    Registered User TimesRoman's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by fellipe View Post
    I did not mean 0 carbs ^^ just more fat than carbs.
    You shouldn't screw around too much with your fat intake. If you reduce carbs, increase protein. You can adjust your fat intake a little, but with fat, a little goes along ways.

    I violated a basic rule awhile back, and was running a cutting diet (very low carbs) on a bulking program and paid the price. Not so much tired all the time, but I was grouchy and stressed easily. And yeah, I was a little tired, like dragging asss. I was off a cutting program, switched to a bulking program, but forgot to change my diet. Anyways, once I added back in the carbs, I became a nice guy and started smiling again.
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  6. #6
    Registered User Annihilate's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by fellipe View Post
    I did not mean 0 carbs ^^ just more fat than carbs.
    nope, you need to keep carbs up, well in my opinion anyway... i know personally if I cut carbs i would go on a carb binge, just like if you lower fat you will go on a fat binge if you dont get enough.
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  7. #7
    Registered User Puppywhirl's Avatar
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    Carbohydrates are not needed. I have been going on 3 months without a single source of digestable carbohydrate (I supplement fiber) and have lost no muscle and have decreased my body fat significantly. You should check out the keto section.
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  8. #8
    Registered User shenmuefan's Avatar
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    It doesn't matter. When it comes down to it, it's all about calories in vs. calories out. You need to eat the food you like, just eat less of it (calorie deficit). Keto/low carb diets will work the EXACT SAME as a diet composed of twinkies, lard, skittles, and ho-ho's. 100% gaurenteed. Just because you eat low carbs does NOT mean you're going to lose weight any better than a guy who's eating a lot of carbs. Calories in...calories out. Take it from a guy who has lost 130 pounds. And I can tell you potatoes, bread, and pasta were totally part of that loss, and I still eat them DAILY.
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  9. #9
    OtterMaster csb5731's Avatar
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    Nobody really NEEDS any carbs as they arenít an essential macronutrient. But I for one function an order of magnitude better with them in my diet, physically and cognitively.

    Some people report the opposite. You wonít really know until you give it a shot.

    Iíll go low-carb for a spell when cutting (with refeeds), but do my best to keep it above the 50g/day level, to avoid the keto-onset type symptoms that really make me miserable.
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  10. #10
    Grumpy Old Dwarf MCrow's Avatar
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    I tried the low carb thing a few times. I got no better results doing that than just watching calories in vs calories out. Not only that, but after a few days I was tired and fealt miserable.

    You can achieve your goals going either way, just find what works for you.
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  11. #11
    Registered User Puppywhirl's Avatar
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    My personal preferece for Low/No carb is simply that I feel better this way. Like the others, either way works fine, this is just my personal preference.
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  12. #12
    Registered User Sith Emperor's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by shenmuefan View Post
    It doesn't matter. When it comes down to it, it's all about calories in vs. calories out. You need to eat the food you like, just eat less of it (calorie deficit). Keto/low carb diets will work the EXACT SAME as a diet composed of twinkies, lard, skittles, and ho-ho's. 100% gaurenteed. Just because you eat low carbs does NOT mean you're going to lose weight any better than a guy who's eating a lot of carbs. Calories in...calories out. Take it from a guy who has lost 130 pounds. And I can tell you potatoes, bread, and pasta were totally part of that loss, and I still eat them DAILY.
    This is as far from the truth as humanly possible.
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  13. #13
    Registered User raresolid's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Sith Emperor View Post
    This is as far from the truth as humanly possible.
    Agree with you. I don't know any body builder who eats twinkies and lard, where do these people come from?
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  14. #14
    Registered User FrosteaTT's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by shenmuefan View Post
    It doesn't matter. When it comes down to it, it's all about calories in vs. calories out. You need to eat the food you like, just eat less of it (calorie deficit). Keto/low carb diets will work the EXACT SAME as a diet composed of twinkies, lard, skittles, and ho-ho's. 100% gaurenteed. Just because you eat low carbs does NOT mean you're going to lose weight any better than a guy who's eating a lot of carbs. Calories in...calories out. Take it from a guy who has lost 130 pounds. And I can tell you potatoes, bread, and pasta were totally part of that loss, and I still eat them DAILY.
    This is only true when you're 500 lbs and 35%BF. I highly doubt you can run the bolded junk diet at 6 - 9% BF. Calorie in vs calorie out doesnt work there buddy.

    Originally Posted by fellipe View Post
    Makes any sense?
    uhhhh.... not really

    Originally Posted by Idgaf View Post
    agreed. Go a couple days without carbs and workout. I guarantee you'll feel sluggish.
    Agree. Thats why carb cycling or carb timing around workouts is ideal (personally).

    Originally Posted by Puppywhirl View Post
    Carbohydrates are not needed. I have been going on 3 months without a single source of digestable carbohydrate (I supplement fiber) and have lost no muscle and have decreased my body fat significantly. You should check out the keto section.
    ... wait wat?? im trying to wrap my thoughts and understanding around this fallacy. =/
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  15. #15
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    Originally Posted by fellipe View Post
    So the best, no matter if bulking or cutting, would be a high protein (from lean sorces), high fat (from good sources), low carb diet (generally around workout)?

    Makes any sense?

    I mean is it the best way to do a cutting, losing only fat or do a good and clean bulking?
    Jesus Christ! I think we have every possible opinion imaginable here. What's OP supposed to think? yes... no.... maybe...

    maybe it's time to break out the oija board and get a straight answer?
    --------------------> Roman
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    i can function well on low carbs, and don't feel they are necessary for cutting. but it's vital to keep protein and healthy fat intake adequate. if you were going to go low carbs, it's important to have a refeed once a week, so you shouldn't cut out carbs completely. you could also look into carb cycling which is usually recommended when nearing single digit BF%, or keto.
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  17. #17
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    While calories in vs calories out works fine in theory the realities of dieting say otherwise. Sure technically I could eat almost all my calories in twinkies and then suppliment with protein powder. However, that leads to a few issues. First, low fat intake leads to lower test levels, hence lower energy and more fat storage (test levels DO effect body composition, high test means you'll burn more pure fat whereas higher estrogen will lead to muscle loss, if that wasn't true everyone woudl look the exact same if they dieted the same way). Secondly, you would be VERY hungry. I can't speak for everyone, but on high carbs I'm a bottomless pit. Yeah if I only eat low gi carbs in moderation I can get full, but on keto I can eat quite a bit of non starchy carbs and still stay in keto. Lettuce, broccoli, green beans are all usually ok if you watch your portions. Trying the old calorie is a calorie thing leads to ice cream being ok in very moderate amoutns and that leads to alot of tempation for me mentally. Keto is pretty clear on what's good and what's not and that mentally makes it an easier diet, IMO.

    Lastly, and most importantly, The high fat intake of keto keeps me full even when dieting on VERY low calories. Keto dieting supresses my appetite more than ECA does, easily. The two together, I literally have to force myself to eat, even near the end of a diet at very low BF levels. The first 3-4 weeks of keto I eat ANYTIME I'm hungry and eat until I'm full and still drop weight consistently, no drugs involved and usually just a 45 minute walk every day for cadio. Have fun trying that with twinkies and lard.
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    Originally Posted by fellipe View Post
    So the best, no matter if bulking or cutting, would be a high protein (from lean sorces), high fat (from good sources), low carb diet (generally around workout)?

    Makes any sense?

    I mean is it the best way to do a cutting, losing only fat or do a good and clean bulking?
    I tried keto about a year ago. I hated it and quit after 2 years.

    i follow the - get 1 gram of protien per pound of body weight, eat clean the rest, lift heavy and eat 500 cal below maint program

    low carb diet trials were hell for me personally.

    have had great success after 5 weeks and its sustainable. good luck
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  19. #19
    Run until it hurts belairdfence99's Avatar
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    They become less as important when you aren't doing strenuous amounts of exercise. Me, I run along with working out and if I don't eat enough carbs before I run, I have a ****ty run.
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    Originally Posted by fellipe View Post
    So the best, no matter if bulking or cutting, would be a high protein (from lean sorces), high fat (from good sources), low carb diet (generally around workout)?

    Makes any sense?

    I mean is it the best way to do a cutting, losing only fat or do a good and clean bulking?

    No, they are not "unnecessary" but it all depends on how you use that term. Carbs are good for both bulking and cutting. I need my carb energy, otherwise I feel like sh' t. < Thats the reason I find them necessary and also because fruits and veggies have many nutrients that are good for you.

    And realistically, who the hell wants to live without carbs. They taste amazing and make you feel full and energetic.

    So much of good food from everywhere in the world is composed of carbs. I'm not going to deny myself the simple pleasures of life cuz some phaggot on bb doesn't understand the human body (not directed at you op).
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    Originally Posted by Idgaf View Post
    agreed. Go a couple days without carbs and workout. I guarantee you'll feel sluggish.
    And I guarantee you that after your body gets used to using fats as an energy source instead of carbs, you will feel as good and as active (if not more) as you would if you ate carbs.

    OP, carbs are not a necessity when cutting. Many people (including myself) cut on low carb diets, such as keto. 65% fat, 30% protein, and 5% or less of carbs (mostly fibrous carbs). Your body uses fats as an energy source instead of carbs. The nice thing about it compared to using carbs, is you have a constant source of energy, stored fat. Unlike when eating carbs, you don't have to worry about not having enough of your energy source and the possibility of sacrificing muscle or protein.

    EDIT: When doing keto, it is important to have refeeds every several days to keep your workouts steady.
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    Originally Posted by PoGo86 View Post
    And I guarantee you that after your body gets used to using fats as an energy source instead of carbs, you will feel as good and as active (if not more) as you would if you ate carbs.

    OP, carbs are not a necessity when cutting. Many people (including myself) cut on low carb diets, such as keto. 65% fat, 30% protein, and 5% or less of carbs (mostly fibrous carbs). Your body uses fats as an energy source instead of carbs. The nice thing about it compared to using carbs, is you have a constant source of energy, stored fat. Unlike when eating carbs, you don't have to worry about not having enough of your energy source and the possibility of sacrificing muscle or protein.

    EDIT: When doing keto, it is important to have refeeds every several days to keep your workouts steady.
    Lol oh please....when you are on a deficit, even with carbs your body will still use fat. Thats not how the human body works. A caloric deficit will ensure it happens...the same way it will on a deficit keto diet. There is no difference. Energy is energy. If carbs are used as a source of energy, on a deficit you will eventually get to the fat and the carbs won't be stored as fat. On keto, you may "directly" go to the fats but the end result will be the same.

    Its basic physiology.
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    Originally Posted by clash101 View Post
    Lol oh please....when you are on a deficit, even with carbs your body will still use fat. Thats not how the human body works. A caloric deficit will ensure it happens...the same way it will on a deficit keto diet. There is no difference. Energy is energy. If carbs are used as a source of energy, on a deficit you will eventually get to the fat and the carbs won't be stored as fat. On keto, you may "directly" go to the fats but the end result will be the same.

    Its basic physiology.
    No $hit. Did I ever say that you will not lose fat by eating carbs? No I did not state that. I was just making a point to the OP that carbs are not NECESSARY, that cutting can be accomplished with little carbs.
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    Originally Posted by PoGo86 View Post
    No $hit. Did I ever say that you will not lose fat by eating carbs? No I did not state that. I was just making a point to the OP that carbs are not NECESSARY, that cutting can be accomplished with little carbs.
    I assumed when you said that fats will be used as energy instead of carbs, you were saying that without carbs, fatloss will be greater because it is being directly used. Its a common broscience comment thrown around here but I misinterpreted it.
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    Originally Posted by clash101 View Post
    I assumed when you said that fats will be used as energy instead of carbs, you were saying that without carbs, fatloss will be greater because it is being directly used. Its a common broscience comment thrown around here but I misinterpreted it.
    Indeed. A lot of people on keto/low carb think that it is a superior way to shred some fat, when in actuality it isn't any better of a way than a 40/40/20 cut. As you stated earlier, a deficit is a deficit.
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    Originally Posted by PoGo86 View Post
    Indeed. A lot of people on keto/low carb think that it is a superior way to shred some fat, when in actuality it isn't any better of a way than a 40/40/20 cut. As you stated earlier, a deficit is a deficit.
    Except those who think it's a superior diet also happen to be extremely carb sensitive and therefore, go on keto.
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    ..

    Its all about calories in versus calories out.. however, once you get to 10-12 percent bodyfat, your body resists fat mobilization and you have to resort to glycogen depletion in order to burn fat.. Thats when you carb cycle..

    so carbs are needed to perform well in the gym. but to get to sub 10 percent you might (differes from person to person) have to limit them.
    ///thread
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