Need some help to GAIN MUSCLES!!!

[sabotte29]

Hi! I'm a 18 years old woman who is trying to gain muscle mass. I'm 157 cm tall, I weight 106 pounds and my BF% is 14.1%. I would like to have some kind of a carb cycling diet, because I heard it's good to gain muscle with a minimum of fat. I know if I want to bulk I have to gain fat, but I just want it to be as low as possible...I do cardio 3x per week on empty stomach for about 30 min of HIIT and weight train 4x per week. My BMR is 2080 cal/day. I just want some advices on what my carbs/protein/fat and calories intake would be on my High/Moderate/Low carb days. Also, should I do less cardio? Or maybe 20 min instead of 30?

Please help me because I'm very confused right now :S...

If you need more info on me don't be afraid to ask and I also want you to know that I'm very open to any suggestions.

[summertown74]

Mornin

I'm doing the same thing, attempting to gain muscle mass, and I've done a lot of research and gotten TONS of excellent advice on this forum, so I'll tell you what I've been told and hopefully that will help you!

First off, to gain muscle mass, you probably need to NOT eat in a deficit (I say probably because if you are a beginner, there is such a thing as "newbie" gains which can happen even if you are eating in a deficit).

Your macro ratio is less important than 1) your total calorie level and 2) what you're doing in the gym. But, that said, eat at least 1gram of protein per pound of bodyweight. A little more, like another 1/2 gram per pound, would be good too. Eat at least .3 grams of fat (preferably from healthy sources like nuts, avos, olive oil, coconut oil, things like that) per pound of bodyweight. I personally go all the way up to .7 grams per pound sometimes and it hasn't hurt my progress. Fill the rest in with carbs.

The most important things:

What you're doing in the gym....
How long have you been lifting? Are you confident that you have correct form, has an experienced professional shown you or have you done research on the form? Are you following a program written by a professional?
In order to gain strength and size, a muscle must be challenged. There is no way around this. Around here you'll hear the phrase "lifting heavy", and that's what we're talking about. The last rep, hopefully less than 15, should be barely able to be completed with decent form. Different rep ranges have different benefits, so it's okay to mix it up. A good program will set out your rep ranges for you. (I'm doing Max OT right now and it's hard as hell but I'm seeing great results). There is a great thread on the female training subforum that lists a bunch of great programs for you to check out, i think it's called Starting Training or something like that. It's a sticky, so it'll be towards the top. Kfisherx started it.

What you're eating.....
Like I already said, you probably don't want to be eating at a deficit. Eat at your maintenance and enjoy the feeling of not being hungry There is a concept of "bulking" where you eat over your maintenance, you can do your own research on that and decide if that's for you. Personally I decided that I was going to try to eat at maintenance first, then move to a TINY bit over maintenance after a while.

Outside of lifting is where your muscles recover and grow. So don't worry too much about cardio, I do it because running outside in the woods is my therapy; but I keep it short and make sure my calories cover it.

All of this is what I've learned from other people and my own research, I'm not a professional or an expert

Good luck and make sure you do a lot of reading of the "stickies" on this site....

[sabotte29]

Mornin

I'm doing the same thing, attempting to gain muscle mass, and I've done a lot of research and gotten TONS of excellent advice on this forum, so I'll tell you what I've been told and hopefully that will help you!

First off, to gain muscle mass, you probably need to NOT eat in a deficit (I say probably because if you are a beginner, there is such a thing as "newbie" gains which can happen even if you are eating in a deficit).

Your macro ratio is less important than 1) your total calorie level and 2) what you're doing in the gym. But, that said, eat at least 1gram of protein per pound of bodyweight. A little more, like another 1/2 gram per pound, would be good too. Eat at least .3 grams of fat (preferably from healthy sources like nuts, avos, olive oil, coconut oil, things like that) per pound of bodyweight. I personally go all the way up to .7 grams per pound sometimes and it hasn't hurt my progress. Fill the rest in with carbs.

The most important things:

What you're doing in the gym....
How long have you been lifting? Are you confident that you have correct form, has an experienced professional shown you or have you done research on the form? Are you following a program written by a professional?
In order to gain strength and size, a muscle must be challenged. There is no way around this. Around here you'll hear the phrase "lifting heavy", and that's what we're talking about. The last rep, hopefully less than 15, should be barely able to be completed with decent form. Different rep ranges have different benefits, so it's okay to mix it up. A good program will set out your rep ranges for you. (I'm doing Max OT right now and it's hard as hell but I'm seeing great results). There is a great thread on the female training subforum that lists a bunch of great programs for you to check out, i think it's called Starting Training or something like that. It's a sticky, so it'll be towards the top. Kfisherx started it.

What you're eating.....
Like I already said, you probably don't want to be eating at a deficit. Eat at your maintenance and enjoy the feeling of not being hungry There is a concept of "bulking" where you eat over your maintenance, you can do your own research on that and decide if that's for you. Personally I decided that I was going to try to eat at maintenance first, then move to a TINY bit over maintenance after a while.

Outside of lifting is where your muscles recover and grow. So don't worry too much about cardio, I do it because running outside in the woods is my therapy; but I keep it short and make sure my calories cover it.

All of this is what I've learned from other people and my own research, I'm not a professional or an expert

Good luck and make sure you do a lot of reading of the "stickies" on this site....

Thanks for taking the time to help me!

In the gym I do most of the time 10 to 12 reps. Some times 8. I'm going to have a new training program from a professional, probably this week. I don't think I have trouble with y training, but more with what I'm eating. I'm not eating enough for all the work I do. But as you said, if I eat 2500 cal/day, wich include 32g of fat, 160g of protein. The rest would be in carbs, wich is 393g. But isn't 160g of protein too much for me? Everyone in the gym says it is and that I should not eat more than 130g. But if I eat 130g of protein I would end up eating 423g of carbs!!! That's a lot for me!!! Don't you think? In that case should I eat more fat?

Please answer back !!

[KaraPhoto]

Thanks for taking the time to help me!

In the gym I do most of the time 10 to 12 reps. Some times 8.

Fewer reps, heavier weights. For maximum gains you need to be lifting HEAVY.

I eat 2500 cal/day, wich include 32g of fat, 160g of protein. The rest would be in carbs, wich is 393g. But isn't 160g of protein too much for me?

160g of protein is fine. I just raised mine to 150g ... 30g one way or anotehr isn't that big a deal really. Your fat is WAY too low, though. Aim for .3g to .5g of fat per pound of bodyweight. You need healthy fats. Don't be afraid of them.

[freebirdmac]

Thanks for taking the time to help me!

In the gym I do most of the time 10 to 12 reps. Some times 8. I'm going to have a new training program from a professional, probably this week. I don't think I have trouble with y training, but more with what I'm eating. I'm not eating enough for all the work I do. But as you said, if I eat 2500 cal/day, wich include 32g of fat, 160g of protein. The rest would be in carbs, wich is 393g. But isn't 160g of protein too much for me? Everyone in the gym says it is and that I should not eat more than 130g. But if I eat 130g of protein I would end up eating 423g of carbs!!! That's a lot for me!!! Don't you think? In that case should I eat more fat?

Please answer back !!

Yeesh. Fat is gained when eating excess calories. It doesn't matter what form it's in, carbs, protein, or fat.

You need carbs for energy and to build muscle. Just eat! If over weeks you think you're gaining weight too fast simply drop the cals a tad. Which macro it comes out of only matters if you undershoot protein or fats.

Carbs can cause bloating which freaks out some people as they assume it's fat. Then they fear carbs and unnecessarily restrict carbs. Don't be one of them.

[summertown74]

Where did u get 160 grams of protein? That's way too much for your weight.

Thanks for taking the time to help me!

In the gym I do most of the time 10 to 12 reps. Some times 8. I'm going to have a new training program from a professional, probably this week. I don't think I have trouble with y training, but more with what I'm eating. I'm not eating enough for all the work I do. But as you said, if I eat 2500 cal/day, wich include 32g of fat, 160g of protein. The rest would be in carbs, wich is 393g. But isn't 160g of protein too much for me? Everyone in the gym says it is and that I should not eat more than 130g. But if I eat 130g of protein I would end up eating 423g of carbs!!! That's a lot for me!!! Don't you think? In that case should I eat more fat?

Please answer back !!

[discdoggie]

Fewer reps, heavier weights. For maximum gains you need to be lifting HEAVY.

Okay, I'm far for an expert on training, but if OP is looking to gain mass, it seems that working in the hypertrophy range of 8-12 would be exactly what she wanted to do to achieve her goals, would it not? Some days of "strength range" of lower reps in there, too, but why not hypertrophy range if her goal is hypertrophy?

[KaraPhoto]

Okay, I'm far for an expert on training, but if OP is looking to gain mass, it seems that working in the hypertrophy range of 8-12 would be exactly what she wanted to do to achieve her goals, would it not? Some days of "strength range" of lower reps in there, too, but why not hypertrophy range if her goal is hypertrophy?

I've always followed what Lyle McDonald suggested, which is 5-8 reps per set for optimal growth.

http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/mus...al-growth.html

In contrast, imagine that you work in the 5-8 rep range with 80-85% of maximum. First and foremost you will get full muscle fiber recruitment from the first repetition. Secondly, you will maximize fatigue/metabolic work/volume within that range. Basically, that range of reps and intensities is the one that will give an optimal balance of tension/recruitment and fatigue/metabolic work.

And that’s the answer that repeatedly comes up among people in the field who aren’t clueless: 5-8 repetitions. If you had to pick a single rep range to work at to optimize the growth response, it would 5-8 reps per set.

[KaraPhoto]

Where did u get 160 grams of protein? That's way too much for your weight.

At 106 lbs x 1.5g, you get 159g. If you use just her LBM (and assuming her BF number is correct), that's 91 lbs x 1.5g, or 137g. I'd personally probably aim closer to the 137g number, but I don't think 160g is necessarily "way" too much. I think anywhere between 100g and 160g would be fine .. just depending on how she wants to skew her macros. I don't think she's going to harm herself by eating an extra 20g or so of protein per day.

[discdoggie]

I've always followed what Lyle McDonald suggested, which is 5-8 reps per set for optimal growth.

http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/mus...al-growth.html

Well, he would definitely know more than me. Thanks for posting that.

[KaraPhoto]

Well, he would definitely know more than me. Thanks for posting that.

Heheh. I'm by no means an expert - I just know who my "go to" sources are. Lyle, Alan, and a handful of others are the ones who I trust implicitly because I know they've researched everything to the nth degree before they put it out there.

[BarbieBoomer_OLD]

Well, he would definitely know more than me. Thanks for posting that.

I find that interesting too. Always thought 8-12 was for hypertrophy, higher reps for endurance and heavier lower reps more for strength. Thanks from me too!

[equestrian]

Me three!

In fact, where Lyle talks about rate coding - I just caught a part of a show Stan Lee created - Superheroes among us or something like that. But they found a strong man in Houston and took him to a university to be tested. The guy could bend a wrench, break horse shoes, all sorts of stuff.

When they hooked him up they had to recalibrate the machine because his rate coding was off the charts. They found out the electrical impulses his brain sent to his muscles was way more intense than anyone they have ever tested before. And this guy wasn't huge - or ripped - just an average joe. His strength came from his rate coding - the electrical impulses fired up all of the muscle fibers needed, more intensely and for a longer period of time than a regular person.

Anyways, I just thought it was really interesting Kara posted the link and I read the article and had just watched that show. lol!

Sorry for the hijack!

[juliacheh]

I find that interesting too. Always thought 8-12 was for hypertrophy, higher reps for endurance and heavier lower reps more for strength. Thanks from me too!

It's not that straightforward. One should use different rep ranges.
It is possible to gain quite a lot of mass on 5x5 programs, e.g.

[KaraPhoto]

It's not that straightforward. One should use different rep ranges.
It is possible to gain quite a lot of mass on 5x5 programs, e.g.

Right ... and if you read the full article, Lyle does say that his answer is based on the hypothetical question of "If you had to pick ONE rep range for max gains, what would it be." But he says clearly that there are ranges and variations.

[juliacheh]

Right ... and if you read the full article, Lyle does say that his answer is based on the hypothetical question of "If you had to pick ONE rep range for max gains, what would it be." But he says clearly that there are ranges and variations.

I wasn't trying to argue the contents of Lyle's article. I was responding more to this:

Always thought 8-12 was for hypertrophy, higher reps for endurance and heavier lower reps more for strength.

[KaraPhoto]

I wasn't trying to argue the contents of Lyle's article. I was responding more to this:

Always thought 8-12 was for hypertrophy, higher reps for endurance and heavier lower reps more for strength.

Right again ... sorry! I knew what you were responding to ... I was sort of expanding on your comment that it's not that simple by saying Lyle does emphasize that as well for those who read the whole article.

[StannaRad]

Hi! I'm a 18 years old woman who is trying to gain muscle mass. I'm 157 cm tall, I weight 106 pounds and my BF% is 14.1%. I would like to have some kind of a carb cycling diet, because I heard it's good to gain muscle with a minimum of fat. I know if I want to bulk I have to gain fat, but I just want it to be as low as possible...I do cardio 3x per week on empty stomach for about 30 min of HIIT and weight train 4x per week. My BMR is 2080 cal/day. I just want some advices on what my carbs/protein/fat and calories intake would be on my High/Moderate/Low carb days. Also, should I do less cardio? Or maybe 20 min instead of 30?

Please help me because I'm very confused right now :S...

If you need more info on me don't be afraid to ask and I also want you to know that I'm very open to any suggestions.

Have you read anything on the Keto forum? I just started this diet this past Sunday and really like it. There are different variations you can follow. I plan on doing a carb up/re-feed on Saturdays. I'm looking to shed a little weight so I can see all my heard earned effort in the gym :-). Seems most posters here follow a higher carb diet but i think this will work great for me long term.

[sabotte29]

Yeesh. Fat is gained when eating excess calories. It doesn't matter what form it's in, carbs, protein, or fat.

You need carbs for energy and to build muscle. Just eat! If over weeks you think you're gaining weight too fast simply drop the cals a tad. Which macro it comes out of only matters if you undershoot protein or fats.

Carbs can cause bloating which freaks out some people as they assume it's fat. Then they fear carbs and unnecessarily restrict carbs. Don't be one of them.

My personnal trainer suggested me to eat 2300 cal 3x/week with 312g carb, 150g prot and 50g fat and eat 2000 cal 4x/week with 255g carb, 132g prot and 50g fat. What do you think ?

[KaraPhoto]

My personnal trainer suggested me to eat 2300 cal 3x/week with 312g carb, 150g prot and 50g fat and eat 2000 cal 4x/week with 255g carb, 132g prot and 50g fat. What do you think ?

Sounds too complicated to me. Why not eat the same levels every day of the week rather than having to recalculate every day?

[sabotte29]

Sounds too complicated to me. Why not eat the same levels every day of the week rather than having to recalculate every day?

Well I kinda stay with the idea of carb cycling...

[KaraPhoto]

Well I kinda stay with the idea of carb cycling...

I'm by no means an expert on this, since I don't carb cycle ... but isn't the idea of carb cycling to eat LOW carb one day (or for a few days) and high carb the next?

255g of carb doesn't count as "low carb" by any stretch. And I don't see a significant difference between 255g and 316g ... certainly not enough to refer to it as "cycling". IMO of course ... maybe someone else can chime in.

[sabotte29]

255g of carb doesn't count as "low carb" by any stretch. And I don't see a significant difference between 255g and 316g ... certainly not enough to refer to it as "cycling". IMO of course ... maybe someone else can chime in.

I know but it's because I'm very active and I do not want to lose more weight because right now it's just going down and down...So a 60g carb on a ''low day'' would maybe not be enough for me...

I just want to know the aproximative amount of protein, fat and carbs I should be eating, considering my BMR is 2080 cal and that I want to gain muscle slowly, and less fat as possible.

[freebirdmac]

My personnal trainer suggested me to eat 2300 cal 3x/week with 312g carb, 150g prot and 50g fat and eat 2000 cal 4x/week with 255g carb, 132g prot and 50g fat. What do you think ?

Once you're cals are up at that level you have a lot of leeway in where your cals come from. For some odd reason your trainer is restricting your fats and just varying protein and carbs. Honestly, bulking is a time to relax and stop worrying about macros. Aside from getting sufficient protein and good fats. Don't over think this. Fat comes from excess calories. Give yourself a break from being anal about diet. Eat, lift, and have a life. Several weeks in and periodically during the bulk make small adjustments based on how you feel, look, and your progress.

[freebirdmac]

Right ... and if you read the full article, Lyle does say that his answer is based on the hypothetical question of "If you had to pick ONE rep range for max gains, what would it be." But he says clearly that there are ranges and variations.

It's more than just rep range. Volume is a partner to rep range. It also depends on the muscle you're trying to grow and the individual. Many of the guys in the OV35 forum who have been lifting a long time will tell you that they could not grow their legs until they used higher rep ranges (around 15). In general, 5-12 is the band for hypertrophy. Periodization should also be used.

This article goes into the role of volume http://www.t-nation.com/readArticle.do?id=651322

Bottom line is everyone has their own idea on what is best, usually based on their own results. Some people will grow no matter what as they put the effort in, eat right, and regularly increase weights. Not to mention certain assistance.

[andrerox80]

My personnal trainer suggested me to eat 2300 cal 3x/week with 312g carb, 150g prot and 50g fat and eat 2000 cal 4x/week with 255g carb, 132g prot and 50g fat. What do you think ?

agree w/ what freebirdmac said, but just one more thing - from what you said, 2000 isn't above maintenance for you, so why would you do that 4 x / week? shouldn't do it at all. if you want to bulk, you want to be above maintenance. stick to the 2300.

[Shana5309]

Ok, please don't make fun of me but I'm curious. I'm doing a "bulk" for the first time ever, but I'm super freaked out about gaining fat. I just know it has to be done. Anyway... my maintenance for calories is, I believe around 1800 (I've read all the forums...I seem to get around that number typically)... I've been lifting heavy...as heavy as possible even if I can only squeeze out 5 or 6 reps. I'm taking in around 2200 calories most days and my energy level has been incredible. If I were to take a fat burner, but keep my calories up and lift heavy...would that help to offset any fat I would gain in the bulking process, or would I just be wasting my money?

[freebirdmac]

Ok, please don't make fun of me but I'm curious. I'm doing a "bulk" for the first time ever, but I'm super freaked out about gaining fat. I just know it has to be done. Anyway... my maintenance for calories is, I believe around 1800 (I've read all the forums...I seem to get around that number typically)... I've been lifting heavy...as heavy as possible even if I can only squeeze out 5 or 6 reps. I'm taking in around 2200 calories most days and my energy level has been incredible. If I were to take a fat burner, but keep my calories up and lift heavy...would that help to offset any fat I would gain in the bulking process, or would I just be wasting my money?

A complete waste and counter to your efforts. Look, fat doesn't appear overnight. You have plenty of time to make adjustments in your diet if you need to.

[KyleAaron]

Strength is built in the gym, size is built at the dinner table. Most women athletes undereat. Every woman I speak to insists she eats heaps. It must be all those other women not eating enough to support their physical activity

Go by results. If you lift heavy and after a month are not overall bigger, then you obviously need to eat more. If you're growing, okay that's enough food then.

Okay, I'm far for an expert on training, but if OP is looking to gain mass, it seems that working in the hypertrophy range of 8-12 would be exactly what she wanted to do to achieve her goals, would it not? Some days of "strength range" of lower reps in there, too, but why not hypertrophy range if her goal is hypertrophy?

To be honest, there have not been a heap of studies which show much difference. One thing rarely measured is effort. Doing 3 reps which you can do easily is obviously not going to stimulate growth in the same way to 10 reps which you can only just manage will do.

So the key is just to do more. In every session, try to do more weight. If you can't do more weight, do more reps of the same weight. If you can't do more reps, do more sets. 3 or less reps is probably not good for beginners, since at the limits of your strength form will suffer - save it for a lifting competition. More than 15 reps is pointless, 22 do no more than would 21. Anywhere between 3 and 15 will be fine, so long as the person in each session does more than they did before.

I favour the lower rep range for those wanting to gain strength and size. This is because form breaks down with fatigue, and the exercises we do to gain strength - squat, deadlift, etc - are exercises which are pretty sensitive to good form. I mean, you can be sloppy with a bicep curl or leg extension and you're very unlikely to hurt yourself. But a deadlift's another matter. So 4-8 will work well, being enough to stimulate the body to change, but not so many that things start getting rough towards the end of the set, as they would with for example 12-15 reps.

I find that interesting too. Always thought 8-12 was for hypertrophy, higher reps for endurance and heavier lower reps more for strength. Thanks from me too!

That is the usual thinking in the industry, yes. There's surprisingly little evidence for this, mainly because it seems to be the case that with low reps you're training endurance but mostly strength, and with high mostly endurance but also strength. It's never 100% one thing, they're always mixed.

As I said above, the key thing is effort. I was working with a woman the other day, she was squatting - she got to 5 reps, I could see she could do 3-5 more, she stopped. "I can't do any more."
"Yes, you can, keep going."
"No, I can't because -"
"Are you injured?"'
"No."
"Then keep going."
So she finished the set, another 5 reps, plus 1 more to hammer it home.

Training on her own, she would have stopped at 5 reps. And not increased the weight in the next session. At my gyms, looking at people's programme cards I'll see entries like,

"May 5, lunges 20kg 3x15.... August 5, lunges 20kg 3x15." Surprise surprise, they have zero physique change over the three months.

So the key thing really is not rep range, but effort. If you always do more than you did before, more weight, reps or sets, well then your body will be stimulated to grow. Whether it has the materials to grow depends on your diet. Eat more.

You're doing well if half your weight gain comes in lean mass, and half in fat. You can always do a cutting cycle later, it will not kill you to step away from lean and approach healthy bodyfat for a few months.

My personnal trainer suggested me to eat 2300 cal 3x/week with 312g carb, 150g prot and 50g fat and eat 2000 cal 4x/week with 255g carb, 132g prot and 50g fat. What do you think ?

I think you ought to enquire as to whether your personal trainer has the qualifications to prescribe diets. Most of us don't. We can say, "it's good to eat more vegies," or "drinking milk during your workout will help power it and help you grow afterwards," but that's about it.

If I were to take a fat burner, but keep my calories up and lift heavy...would that help to offset any fat I would gain in the bulking process, or would I just be wasting my money?

You would lose strength and muscle mass as well as fat, waste your money, and worst of all, might risk your health. Most fat burners don't work at all, pump everything up, it's like having 20 cups of coffee a day. This is bad for you, and you should not do it.

You want muscle, you have to have some fat with it. You can cut later.

[Shana5309]

Thanks. I guess I already knew that, but the thought of gaining weight just freaks me out. My weight has always been an obsession and this whole process is just proving to me how insecure I really am. I'll keep trying. I appreciate the input. I think I just need to keep hearing that I should be cutting cardio, uping calories and lifting like a mother****er.