To everyone complaining about the community center planned near the WTC: (srs thread)

[ketobrah]

First things first:

I am here to engage in a political discussion, I would prefer all trolls avoid this thread, anyone who is not interested in this discussion, or those who are sick of the discussion just kindly avoid the thread, and do not neg those in this thread or me for wishing to discuss the matters below.

I would also like to mention that I am not Muslim, and that by not fighting against the erection of the center, that I should not be associated with Muslims. There is nothing wrong with middle-eastern culture nor Islam it is just that I should not be associated with Islam since I am not Islamic. Do not take this to mean that I am biased.

Everything quoted will be sourced, and is not my own writing.

I ask in all seriousness:

Can you please give me one sensible and educated reason why a predominantly Muslim community center and mosque should not be erected two blocks away from the World Trade Center?

Facts:

The proposed center, called the Cordoba House, would rise as many as 15 stories two blocks north of where the twin towers stood. It would include a prayer space, as well as a 500-seat performing arts center, a culinary school, a swimming pool, a restaurant and other amenities.

The center is expected to create more than 150 full-time and 500 part-time jobs, and it would offer a range of cultural events, modeled on the 92nd Street Y.

Bin Laden used Islamic texts to exhort violent action against American military and citizenry until the stated grievances are reversed, noting "ulema have throughout Islamic history unanimously agreed that the jihad is an individual duty if the enemy destroys the Muslim countries."[95]

Al-Qaeda (pronounced /ælˈkaɪdə/ al-KYE-də or /ælˈkeɪdə/ al-KAY-də; Arabic: القاعدة*, al-qāʿidah, "the base"), alternatively spelled al-Qaida and sometimes al-Qa'ida, is a militant Islamist group founded sometime between August 1988[6] and late 1989.[7] It operates as a network comprising both a multinational, stateless army[8] and a fundamentalist Sunni movement calling for global Jihad. It is widely considered a terrorist organization.

Al-Qaeda is directly linked, and has claimed responsibility for these attacks, under leadership of Osama Bin laden and other military figures.

Islamic Society of North America, American Muslim Alliance, American Muslim Council, Council on American-Islamic Relations, Islamic Circle of North America, and the Shari'a Scholars Association of North America. Along with massive monetary donations, many Islamic organizations launched blood drives and provided medical assistance, food, and shelter for victims.

Top Muslim organizations in the United States were swift to condemn the attacks on 9/11[citation needed] and called "upon Muslim Americans to come forward with their skills and resources to help alleviate the sufferings of the affected people and their families".

Numerous incidents of harassment and hate crimes were reported against Middle Easterners and other "Middle Eastern-looking" people in the days following the 9/11 attacks.[177][178] Sikhs were also targeted because Sikh males usually wear turbans, which are stereotypically associated with Muslims. There were reports of verbal abuse, attacks on mosques and other religious buildings (including the firebombing of a Hindu temple and assaults on people, including one murder: Balbir Singh Sodhi was fatally shot on September 15, 2001. He, like others, was a Sikh who was mistaken for a Muslim.[177]
According to a study by Ball State University, people perceived to be Middle Eastern were as likely to be victims of hate crimes as followers of Islam during this time. The study also found a similar increase in hate crimes against people who may have been perceived as members of Islam, Arabs and others thought to be of Middle Eastern origin.[179]
A report by South Asian American advocacy group SAALT documented media coverage of 645 bias incidents against Americans of South Asian or Middle Eastern descent between September 11 and September 17, including vandalism, arson, assault, shootings, harassment, and threats

I understand that after traumatic events such as the 9/11 terrorist attacks, it can be expected and understood that citizens with family members who were killed, or just citizens deeply affected by the event would cause uproar. However, it is not justified, and it is ethically incorrect to commit hate crimes to innocents due to their religious beliefs and racial and religious stereotypes.

I can understand why one may find it insensitive to put a Muslim community center and mosque in an area already very sensitive to the middle east culture, but that still does not mean it should not happen.

I would just like to say that any insensitivities towards an entire religion are ethically incorrect in assumption that leader's of the religion, or the religion has not collectively provoked the insensitivities. In the case of 9/11, Al-Qaeda acted on their own behalf, and their claim to Islam is their own. Looking at many of the Islamic organizations today, it is clear that Al-Qaeda's actions were not something that were given public approval within the Islamic community. If you look at quotes from Osama Bin-Laden, he claims that these acts were committed mostly in response to the US occupation and presence of multiple Middle Eastern Countries, and their direct support of Israel who was at the time in conflict.

I feel that any insensitivities are in fact insulting to Muslims in the area considering they have done nothing to provoke the attack, and that they are suffering because of it. I feel there is no reason why the Muslims should not be allowed to build this community center, in the desired location. Especially after the planners have mentioned it's being done to reconcile the bad relationship. It may cause uproar now, but I think there are only empty reasons to stop the muslims, and religious bias.

Sources

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Al-Qaeda
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/05/26/ny...slim.html?_r=1
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/9/11
http://online.worldmag.com/2010/08/0...clears-hurdle/
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_terrorism

[Moh7]

well.... would you build a frankfurter factory beside Auschwitz?

[ketobrah]

well.... would you build a frankfurter factory beside Auschwitz?

Okay so you didn't read my post, grats.

[Moh7]

just bumping for you brahhhh

[AcE831]

We are in the United States of America. This shouldn't be an issue, because it's not the 1950's. It's 2010, stop being a bunch of *******s and think logically people. This is what's wrong with our country. The backwards thinking has to go.

And fukk all the conservative *******s making a huge deal out of this.

[N4th4n]

It's only the ignorant who care.

[ketobrah]

just bumping for you brahhhh

Thanks bro. Just makes me rage at how so many are in disagreement with the building. I can't comprehend such logic, I want to understand it but I really can't :S.

[frasersteen]

Spot on. If it was on the site of ground zero that would be a different matter but the implication of not allowing it to be built is that there is at least a 2 block radius around ground zero which is a no go area for muslims.

The fact that there are people raging about this says a lot about America's attitude to Islam. In the UK they would be referred to as racist bigots.

[LP670SV]

well.... would you build a frankfurter factory beside Auschwitz?

Basically.

We are in the United States of America. This shouldn't be an issue, because it's not the 1950's. It's 2010, stop being a bunch of *******s and think logically people. This is what's wrong with our country. The backwards thinking has to go.

And fukk all the conservative *******s making a huge deal out of this.

LOL ****, if this is the way you guys really think America is really heading down the ****ter, not only will it be filled with illegal mexicans and other minorities who **** the place up but you will also have a sizable muslim majority and have yourselves a giant version of the problems UK is having.

Spot on. If it was on the site of ground zero that would be a different matter but the implication of not allowing it to be built is that there is at least a 2 block radius around ground zero which is a no go area for muslims.

The fact that there are people raging about this says a lot about America's attitude to Islam. In the UK they would be referred to as racist bigots.

BRB being forced to be tolerant to inferior cultures (muslim culture) like English people. BRB thinking a religion is a race. BRB being a ****ing moron like frasersteen. BRB thinking this politically correct attitude held by english people and media has created a harmonious peaceful place.

[Moh7]

lol @ this hate mongering.


i can tell your retarded because you agreed with my first post

[BeanieWells]

lol wtf dude what do u have against jews?

[Dan916]

Spot on. If it was on the site of ground zero that would be a different matter but the implication of not allowing it to be built is that there is at least a 2 block radius around ground zero which is a no go area for muslims.

The fact that there are people raging about this says a lot about America's attitude to Islam. In the UK they would be referred to as racist bigots.

thats because muslims are beginning to run your nation

[AcE831]

Basically.



LOL ****, if this is the way you guys really think America is really heading down the ****ter, not only will it be filled with illegal mexicans and other minorities who **** the place up but you will also have a sizable muslim majority and have yourselves a giant version of the problems UK is having.

What does this have to do with a Muslim mosque? Last I heard there was around 2.3 million Muslims in the US. You should be a lot more concerned with Mexicans than anything else. And who is to blame for illegal immigration? Our own government that doesn't give a fukk.

Explain how having a Muslim Mosque is a bad thing.

(catholic here i guess)

[Painz]

Basically.



LOL ****, if this is the way you guys really think America is really heading down the ****ter, not only will it be filled with illegal mexicans and other minorities who **** the place up but you will also have a sizable muslim majority and have yourselves a giant version of the problems UK is having.




BRB being forced to be tolerant to inferior cultures (muslim culture) like English people. BRB thinking a religion is a race. BRB being a ****ing moron like frasersteen. BRB thinking this politically correct attitude held by english people and media has created a harmonious peaceful place.

Leona Lewis punched in the head. lol.

[frasersteen]

BRB being forced to be tolerant to inferior cultures (muslim culture) like English people. BRB thinking a religion is a race. BRB being a ****ing moron like frasersteen. BRB thinking this politically correct attitude held by english people and media has created a harmonious peaceful place.

Strong contradiction.


Like I said, racist bigots...........

[DJMctits]

Whats the difference between muslim and islam?

[pushupbro]

Personally, I have no problems with the Muslims building a community center at that location. Is it the most savvy of locations? No, I mean they had to realize that the conservative media and politicians would jump all over it. But I'm not sure how far away from Ground Zero would be far enough to satisfy the opponents. 5 blocks? 10? 30 minutes? They'll probably oppose the location anyways.

At the same time, Imam Feisal Abdul Rauf, the religious leader of the group, gave his opponents plenty of ammunition with this statement he made to 60 Minutes regarding 9/11: "I wouldn't say that the United States deserved what happened but United States policies were an accessory to the crime that happened."

The following is an interesting read as well. Surprisingly relevant to the current issue at hand: http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000...350430368.html

[misterhamper]

thats because muslims are beginning to run your nation

QFT. Why the fck would people actually WANT to be politically correct? It's a bullsh!t concept in the first place.

[LP670SV]

What does this have to do with a Muslim mosque? Last I heard there was around 2.3 million Muslims in the US. You should be a lot more concerned with Mexicans than anything else. And who is to blame for illegal immigration? Our own government that doesn't give a fukk.

Explain how having a Muslim Mosque is a bad thing.

(catholic here i guess)

Muslims in general are a bad thing, whether it be more immigrating or simply existing ones gaining more power and prominence with new buildings and ventures. It is bad enough having extremely conservative christian sects that lobby to force their views on the rest of the country but when you start having large populations of muslims (and invariably large extremist populations within) you end up with a situation where an unwanted, recently immigrated minority ends up having the numbers and power to pressure the country to adopt their own backwards culture and ways, kind of like what happens in the Netherlands or in the UK.

As for the location it is especially bad, whilst it is their lawfully purchased land and they can do what they want building a enormous and highly notable mosque a mere two blocks away from the site of the 911 attacks is much like going to Armenia and building a huge Turkish cultural center in the vicinity of the countries capital, it is lawful but highly inflammatory and insulting to the memories of everyone who died that day in the name of Islam.

[Iron_Prophet]

First things first:

I am here to engage in a political discussion, I would prefer all trolls avoid this thread, anyone who is not interested in this discussion, or those who are sick of the discussion just kindly avoid the thread, and do not neg those in this thread or me for wishing to discuss the matters below.

I would also like to mention that I am not Muslim, and that by not fighting against the erection of the center, that I should not be associated with Muslims. There is nothing wrong with middle-eastern culture nor Islam it is just that I should not be associated with Islam since I am not Islamic. Do not take this to mean that I am biased.

Everything quoted will be sourced, and is not my own writing.

I ask in all seriousness:

Can you please give me one sensible and educated reason why a predominantly Muslim community center and mosque should not be erected two blocks away from the World Trade Center?

Facts:









Al-Qaeda is directly linked, and has claimed responsibility for these attacks, under leadership of Osama Bin laden and other military figures.








I understand that after traumatic events such as the 9/11 terrorist attacks, it can be expected and understood that citizens with family members who were killed, or just citizens deeply affected by the event would cause uproar. However, it is not justified, and it is ethically incorrect to commit hate crimes to innocents due to their religious beliefs and racial and religious stereotypes.

I can understand why one may find it insensitive to put a Muslim community center and mosque in an area already very sensitive to the middle east culture, but that still does not mean it should not happen.

I would just like to say that any insensitivities towards an entire religion are ethically incorrect in assumption that leader's of the religion, or the religion has not collectively provoked the insensitivities. In the case of 9/11, Al-Qaeda acted on their own behalf, and their claim to Islam is their own. Looking at many of the Islamic organizations today, it is clear that Al-Qaeda's actions were not something that were given public approval within the Islamic community. If you look at quotes from Osama Bin-Laden, he claims that these acts were committed mostly in response to the US occupation and presence of multiple Middle Eastern Countries, and their direct support of Israel who was at the time in conflict.

I feel that any insensitivities are in fact insulting to Muslims in the area considering they have done nothing to provoke the attack, and that they are suffering because of it. I feel there is no reason why the Muslims should not be allowed to build this community center, in the desired location. Especially after the planners have mentioned it's being done to reconcile the bad relationship. It may cause uproar now, but I think there are only empty reasons to stop the muslims, and religious bias.

Sources

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Al-Qaeda
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/05/26/ny...slim.html?_r=1
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/9/11
http://online.worldmag.com/2010/08/0...clears-hurdle/
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_terrorism

Americans dont owe Arabs ****. There is no reason for that mosque to be built there. Your in America now if you cant see the problem with building a mosque next to the site of a disaster caused by a Muslim extremist group then your a ****ing dumb ass.

[Moh7]

Muslims in general are a bad thing, whether it be more immigrating or simply existing ones gaining more power and prominence with new buildings and ventures. It is bad enough having extremely conservative christian sects that lobby to force their views on the rest of the country but when you start having large populations of muslims (and invariably large extremist populations within) you end up with a situation where an unwanted, recently immigrated minority ends up having the numbers and power to pressure the country to adopt their own backwards culture and ways, kind of like what happens in the Netherlands or in the UK.

As for the location it is especially bad, whilst it is their lawfully purchased land and they can do what they want building a enormous and highly notable mosque a mere two blocks away from the site of the 911 attacks is much like going to Armenia and building a huge Turkish cultural center in the vicinity of the countries capital, it is lawful but highly inflammatory and insulting to the memories of everyone who died that day in the name of Islam.

rofl.

you are a sheep, and a fear mongering ****ot.

[frasersteen]

QFT. Why the fck would people actually WANT to be politically correct? It's a bullsh!t concept in the first place.

Why would you want to avoid insulting people for no good reason?

notsureifsrs.jpg

It can go too far but as a concept it is sound and sensible. It should not be legislated as it can infringe on freedom of expression but most sensible people would say that it should be observed.

[LP670SV]

Strong contradiction.


Like I said, racist bigots...........

Nothing in my post is a contradiction you moron. Islam is a religion and people who practice Islam all have in common certain traits and customs hence people who practice Islam share cultural similarities. Of course not every muslim is the same because their original country also shapes their cultural identity but every muslim who actually practices their religion is similar in ways.

However make no mistake about it, Islam is not a race and unlike what you think disliking Muslims doesn't make you racist. It doesn't make you racist at all it just shows you have the intelligence to look beyond what English media and politically correct nerds would have you believe and realise that Islam is a brutal and barbaric religion and totally incompatible with the western world.

Americans dont owe Arabs ****. There is no reason for that mosque to be built there. Your in America now if you cant see the problem with building a mosque next to the site of a disaster caused by a Muslim extremist group then your a ****ing dumb ass.

Repped my friend. LOL at any Amerian who supports an action that simply creates further division in the USA and increases the prominence and legitimacy of a bunch of people following an evil fairy tale.

rofl.

you are a sheep, and a fear mongering ****ot.

No I'm not at it's core it is a brutal and barbaric religion and the majority of muslim nations are accordingly also brutal and barbaric. Anyone who practices islam as it is written will be as barbaric as the worst of them.

edit: you are the one following a fairy tale not because you assessed and determined on the balance of probability the bull**** stories in the Koran are true but because your family and country all mindlessly follow the same story and you are calling me a sheep lol! LMAO.

[Iron_Prophet]

rofl.

you are a sheep,

Same could be said for you.

[ketobrah]

Americans dont owe Arabs ****. There is no reason for that mosque to be built there. Your in America now if you cant see the problem with building a mosque next to the site of a disaster caused by a Muslim extremist group then your a ****ing dumb ass.

Yeah... Because there aren't millions of other extremists in the USA. Yo what's good KKK?

Honestly? You know how I know your arguement is complete bull****? Because we're talking about Muslims.

Muslims are followers of Islam (the religion). You don't need to be arab to be a muslim. Stop being racist, and stop being biased. If you read my post you'd see that Muslims were one of the first to help, and setup aid stations across New York for victims of 9/11.

[custom981]

I wish there was a section where religious and political issues could be discussed. We should get a petition going and send it to the mods.

[ziggy5121]

POSTED THIS IN OTHER THREAD:

The location where they chose to build it is in bad taste, and all the commotion this has caused proves it. There's already talk of how long it will take some people with nothing to loose to burn the entire place down. It means a lot more to the people who were affected by 9/11 than it does to the muslims who will visit the mosque to build it at a different location.

Yes it's their right to build it, but it defiantly isn't a smart decision and may lead to some very bad results. It would be much better to just avoid the situation all together and build it someplace else.

EDIT: It's the equivalent of trying to open a brand new gun store in Columbine Colorado a week after the shooting's happened. It may be your right, and legally ok, but it's not a very nice thing to do, and it's not very smart either.

EDIT2: After the shooting, people began to point fingers at every possible thing connected to the two boys, their clothing, school, other kids, parents, computer games, and even the music that they listened to.

Lead singer Manson [Marilyn Manson] stated on a VH1 interview that the band had cancelled three concerts in memoriam of the tragedy

Legally not forced to do anything, but was still done out of respect. Muslims could try to show the same kind of respect, understand that there are strong ties in the minds of most Americans between the terrorists and Islam, and build it someplace else.

[frasersteen]

Americans dont owe Arabs ****. There is no reason for that mosque to be built there. Your in America now if you cant see the problem with building a mosque next to the site of a disaster caused by a Muslim extremist group then your a ****ing dumb ass.

So they shouldn't build any catholic churches near to where the Oaklahoma City bombing took place?

[AcE831]

Muslims in general are a bad thing, whether it be more immigrating or simply existing ones gaining more power and prominence with new buildings and ventures. It is bad enough having extremely conservative christian sects that lobby to force their views on the rest of the country but when you start having large populations of muslims (and invariably large extremist populations within) you end up with a situation where an unwanted, recently immigrated minority ends up having the numbers and power to pressure the country to adopt their own backwards culture and ways, kind of like what happens in the Netherlands or in the UK.

As for the location it is especially bad, whilst it is their lawfully purchased land and they can do what they want building a enormous and highly notable mosque a mere two blocks away from the site of the 911 attacks is much like going to Armenia and building a huge Turkish cultural center in the vicinity of the countries capital, it is lawful but highly inflammatory and insulting to the memories of everyone who died that day in the name of Islam.

You DO know the US is a melting pot right? Which means it includes pretty much EVERY culture in the world.

All you have done is proven you use the same logic typical conservative *******s use. Segregation is dead buddy. This is the land of the free. Your fear mongering tactics wont work.

[Iron_Prophet]

Yeah... Because there aren't millions of other extremists in the USA. Yo what's good KKK?

Honestly? You know how I know your arguement is complete bull****? Because we're talking about Muslims.

Muslims are followers of Islam (the religion). You don't need to be arab to be a muslim. Stop being racist, and stop being biased. If you read my post you'd see that Muslims were one of the first to help, and setup aid stations across New York for victims of 9/11.

Your a dumb-ass im sick of your bull**** I know not all muslims are extremists ***got stop using that argument everyone ****ing knows that.

My point is it is offensive to Americans to build a ****ing mosque next to the site of 9/11.

Also how is it being racist when the majority of muslims are arabs ****wit? So what it is racist to assume an Arab is a Muslim? Your obviously stupid because that has nothing to do with racism.