NY judge orders quotas for FDNY!

[YUL]

what current situation? that more whites take and pass the same exact test that blacks and hispanics take?

the SAME EXACT TEST, a test comprised of questions with answers not exclusive to the white race.

more whites take the test, and more whites happen to do better. there is no EVIDENCE of racially skewed testing.



your conclusion is that "well there arent many minorities getting hired, so the test and hiring process must be racist."

my conclusion is "well there arent many minorities getting hired, so the minorities that take the test just dont do well enough to rank high enough to get hired."

see, i dont think as low of minorities as you do.

i guess you don't have any issues with the whole legacy thing then?

[JustAnotherUser]

what current situation? that more whites take and pass the same exact test that blacks and hispanics take?

the SAME EXACT TEST, a test comprised of questions with answers not exclusive to the white race.

more whites take the test, and more whites happen to do better. there is no EVIDENCE of racially skewed testing.



your conclusion is that "well there arent many minorities getting hired, so the test and hiring process must be racist."

my conclusion is "well there arent many minorities getting hired, so the minorities that take the test just dont do well enough to rank high enough to get hired."

see, i dont think as low of minorities as you do.

I think it has to do with the whole alumni thing. Think about it. Old school firehouses were, like most institutions at the time, probably racist. Meaning that there's only whites. Because they take this into consideration, it's racist. Only whites can get this benefit because only their forefathers were in the NYFD back in the day.

At least that's what I took away from my skim.

[otisthebat]

there are black and hispanic firefighters in FDNY. they can have legacies.

what really gets me is that you think black and hispanic people NEED those bonus points over whites that dont have them. white people manage to get hired without legacy points.

[markymark69]

ah ok. I'm assuming that the big thing is the whole alumni deal? That actually makes sense. Fire Departments in the past were probably racist and why should someone get a bonus because someone they were related to was in the department.

It long; I just skimmed.

The judge did not explicitly state it was the alumni...but the rank order system adds up to 15 bonus points to the average weighted score.

If the hiring was based only on the exam and CPAT..the standard deviation between whites hire and blacks hired would only be 5 points. From a statistical standpoint this is about average due to the greater number of whites taking the exam vs blacks taking the exam

When you factor in the bonus points, the standard deviation jumps up to almost 23 points. That is extraordinary high.

otis is trying to argue the bonus points are valid...they genuinely increase the potential of a candidate becoming a successful firefighter.

Perhaps he should have been the lead lawyer on the case...because the city specifically avoided defending that stance....

Prior to Exam 6019...the CPAT (physical fitness test) was included in the rank-ordering system. In that case the standard deviation between those that passed and those accepted into the academy were the same.


Think about that...a physical fitness test designed to replicate your duties executed as a firefighter was excluded from current rank-ordering system....in Otis's world...that is a good thing.

[otisthebat]

Think about that...a physical fitness test designed to replicate your duties executed as a firefighter was excluded from current rank-ordering system....in Otis's world...that is a good thing.

i have made no such comment on the fitness test.

[icery]

Incorrect...that was his ruling. That is what judges do...they listen to facts and issue rulings.



Dude...I know I bash you alot for being in the south...but I cannot help it...you do not bother to do a modicum of research, exercise critical thinking, objective analysis..etc.


Here is a link to the ruling...not a NYPost article:

http://www.nylj.com/nylawyer/adgifs/...10garaufis.pdf


The exam added 'bonus' points for veteran status, residency status, and legacy status (means you have a parent/grandparent who worked for the FDNY). You could 'fail' the exam...but with the bonus points...still pass.

So the exam was not based on who was most qualified.

legacy status isn't having a parent or grandparent in the FDNY, moron. its having one that DIED ON THE JOB.

[KRNEKIM]

great. so now they hire based on race instead of who is best for the job.......for a job that is extremely dangerous.

brilliant idea is brilliant!

Why do you comment without reading? The point of this law suit and why the lawsuit was won is that they were not hiring for who is best, but based on his whiteness.

understand?

[KRNEKIM]

legacy status isn't having a parent or grandparent in the FDNY, moron. its having one that DIED ON THE JOB.

Strong stupid


:::shakes head in disbelief:::

[KRNEKIM]

ITT: White guys skipping the rational of the judge's decision and the whole issue and going right to "activist judge" and "reverse racism."

[redliner9]

WTF! How can a test/exam be racialy skewed?

[SoggyDoughnut]

So why do they not just give a written test and a physical test and combine the scores and hire the top 'however many they need?'

I suppose legacy status and whatnot could be found 'wrong' but I fail to see how it would be considered racist unless you could track a meaningful percentage of legacy applicants legacy status back to a time when there was in fact racial profiling in hiring?

Speaking of which, I remember something like this happening in Chicago I think. The judge ruled the entrance exam was racist because minorities typically did poorly on timed tests as oppossed to whites. So Chicago had to hire a disproportionate amount of black applicants who scored significantly lower on the tests. Did this have to do with legacy and all that too?

[icery]

they combined scores for past exams, 6019 was changed to P/F. they still whined and tried taking the tests to court.

my dad was hired by FDNY in 1973 and with his test for every 3 whites a minority was hired.

[icery]

FDNY are murderers.

http://www.blackpressusa.com/news/Ar...s&NewsID=17942

the stuff the black vulcans try and pull. laff

[icery]

Prior to Exam 6019...the CPAT (physical fitness test) was included in the rank-ordering system. In that case the standard deviation between those that passed and those accepted into the academy were the same.

again, you have no clue. CPAT WAS NOT USED PRIOR TO 6019.

[icery]

GARAUFIS to be removed shortly
http://www.nypost.com/p/news/opinion...2pFD1jpYKdBdrL

how racist the asians think the fdny is
http://www.qchron.com/news/queenswid...88d2ff64e.html

how racist the hispanic society thinks the fdny is
http://www.qchron.com/news/queenswid...1f0c159cf.html

[icery]

barred from attending vulcan test prep
http://www.nypost.com/p/news/local/q...content=Queens

[flairon]

oh, so now we shouldn't listen to impartial judges to rectify cases of discrimination?

as long as the boys in charge say there's no discrimination, it's all good?


man dude, take a step back sometime and put yourself in someones else's shoes for a change

It's not discrimination if you're just too stupid to do the job.

[Nagalfar]

There is a big point here that gets missed, what about the minority that do it right and get the job because they are one of the best qualified.. how many people will look at them with contempt because the assertion will be "you probably got the job because of your skin color"... HUGE insult to every man and woman who had the guts and integrity to do it RIGHT...

..and what about the other guys who did it straight up, and are now being backed up by someone not qualified to back them up because he/she has the right skin color..

Racism.. such bullsh*t.. its a insult to every single man and woman who did it right..

[flairon]

There is a big point here that gets missed, what about the minority that do it right and get the job because they are one of the best qualified.. how many people will look at them with contempt because the assertion will be "you probably got the job because of your skin color"... HUGE insult to every man and woman who had the guts and integrity to do it RIGHT...

..and what about the other guys who did it straight up, and are now being backed up by someone not qualified to back them up because he/she has the right skin color..

Racism.. such bullsh*t.. its a insult to every single man and woman who did it right..

I don't know if you can put this all on racism, but rather political correctness.

All men are not created equal, even the guys that wrote that line did so with a quill brought to them by a slave.

[r0gue6]

It's not discrimination if you're just too stupid to do the job.

Considering that had nothing to do with the case, I'm not sure why you even brought it up.

[flairon]

Considering that had nothing to do with the case, I'm not sure why you even brought it up.

if you need a quota to get a job, it most definitely is the case.

[watertoy]

Some of the good minority candidates are probably joining different police and military units. Instead of waiting with the white candidates 4 years just to take a test. People who got a 50/50 shot of getting in would just join a police unit instead and advance while they wait years.

The pool of minority FDNY candidates gets weaker.

NYPD
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Yor...t#Demographics

As of 2009, the NYPD was 47.5% Caucasian, 28.9% Hispanic, 17.9% African American and 5.5% Asian compared to a city that was 33.7% Caucasian, 29.6% Hispanic (of any race), 23.9% African American, and 13.3% Asian.[24]

http://www.nj.com/jjournal-news/inde...son_regio.html

North Hudson Regional Fire and Rescue’s residents-only hiring policy discriminates against blacks applying to be on the force, a federal appeals court ruled Monday.

“The judge’s decision covered every issue . . . the argument that a broader hiring process would discriminate against Hispanics (in North Hudson) is thoroughly incorrect,” said David Rose, one of the NAACP’s attorneys in the matter. “Obviously, we’re pleased.”

[icery]

http://www.metro.us/newyork/local/ar...-entrance-exam

farcking lal. 'dem kids can't even read.

[smokeater]

I'm fortunate in that every firefighter I've ever worked with who was white, black, asian, hispanic, a woman or gay was wearing the uniform because they demonstrated themselves to be the best qualified for the job. I've never had to wonder if somebody was riding beside me because a politician somewhere filled some sort of quota. If I was a resident of New York I'd be protesting this big time. When your house is on fire, your baby stops breathing or you're trapped inside your car with toxic fumes leaking that is no time to have a "quota filler" try and help you. Police services have been hiring like this for a while and as a result many unqualified people carry guns and badges.

[Streetbull]

Everyone knows that white males are evil! We should be out strafing a village somewhere or burning down a rainforest! (Had a extreme leftist college female prof say that to me once. She was serious.)