Is casein useless?

[OhioStateBucki]

Everything I read hear that has any credibility points toward digestion times dont matter, as in you can eat as much protein in one sitting as you want and it will digest. Backed up by things such as intermittent fasting etc.

So why does it matter if you get fast or slow release? Whey would be important to get the fast release after workouts, but why do you need the slow releasing protein? According to meal times not mattering etc, what is bad about drinking a whey shake before bed versus casein?

[determined4000]

I find it more filling for a longer period of time
But you can use whey + fat and digestion will be slowed

[FunkMasterPhil]

For obvious reasons. Whey digests faster, hence you'll feel hungry again sooner. Casein digest slower so you can sleep through the night feeling full and wake up in the morning not feeling starving to death.

[OhioStateBucki]

I cant recall the last time I woke up because I was so hungry, I drink whey+fat free milk before bed and im on a big deficit. Maybe I am just lucky.

But aside from the fullness, there is no nutritional difference correct? So if waking up hungry is not a problem then theres no point in continuing to buy it?

[PoGo86]

Many people take whey after working out with a simple carb to spike insulin and supposedly gets the protein to the muscles faster, therefore getting the full benefit of the protein. Casein taken before bed is so a person will have constant protein flowing through their system, being digested and utilized 24 hours a day. Me personally, I just try and get my 180 grams in a day, if at the end of the day I am kind of hungry and need some more protein, I will take 1 or 2 scoops of casein. If I have had a bunch of chicken and eggs and other protein filled food, and get to my 180 grams from whole food, then I skip all shakes.

[Ncsketch]

I cant recall the last time I woke up because I was so hungry, I drink whey+fat free milk before bed and im on a big deficit. Maybe I am just lucky.

But aside from the fullness, there is no nutritional difference correct? So if waking up hungry is not a problem then theres no point in continuing to buy it?

the protein in cottage cheese is casein FYI

[OhioStateBucki]

I am well aware of which foods contain casein vs whey vs soy etc, and that casein is slower while whey is faster. My argument is not that casein is 100% useless, dont drink milk/eat cottage cheese etc. Just dont force yourself to do those when you dont even have to.

According to all the science people seem to believe in here:MEAL TIMING DOES NOT MATTER. So, there is no difference between 50g whey and 50g casein, other than one acts faster. You dont need casein "Flowing constantly through sleep," look at people who do intermittent fasting, they have great results with only one small window of any food being eaten.

The one time of the day that you truly need protein is after a workout, in which case whey is the obvious choice. Other than that, you could wait until right before bed and eat the rest of your protein requirements and it all be used. So I will ask again, what is the point in buying casein when you can just get whey?

[MarkVI]

what is the point in buying casein when you can just get whey?

Casein from ON tastes awesome and is really really thick. That's one reason, another is that I feel a sense of fullness longer, though with whey I've noticed an initial satisfaction that casein doesn't provide.

In oats, the casein mixes really thick.

[Dexter3000]

I eat 500 gr. of cottage cheese EVERY day as my last meal, fine source of protein to get me trough the night.

[snorkelman]

Slow and fast dietary proteins differently modulate postprandial protein accretion. Boirie Y, et al. Proc Natl Acad Sci U S A. 1997 Dec 23;94(26):14930-5.Full text at: http://www.pnas.org/content/94/26/14930.full.pdf+html

Here is Lyle’s summary: The researchers found the following: whey spiked blood amino acid levels faster than casein, but blood amino acid levels dropped more quickly as well. Casein, in contrast, took much longer to digest, actually providing amino acids for around 8 hours to the body (you might consider that data point the next time you hear that you have to eat every three hours or your muscles will fall off.

Both casein and whey hit the bloodstream at about the same time (about an hour in), that is, whey didn’t actually get into the system faster. However, whey spiked blood amino acid levels higher at that one hour point.

See,


I think the real issue that OP needs to hear is that whey is better at promoting protein synthesis, whereas casein is better at preventing protein breakdown. As you can see, both of these are important.

[Mr-Paradox]

Slow and fast dietary proteins differently modulate postprandial protein accretion. Boirie Y, et al. Proc Natl Acad Sci U S A. 1997 Dec 23;94(26):14930-5.Full text at: http://www.pnas.org/content/94/26/14930.full.pdf+html

Here is Lyle’s summary: The researchers found the following: whey spiked blood amino acid levels faster than casein, but blood amino acid levels dropped more quickly as well. Casein, in contrast, took much longer to digest, actually providing amino acids for around 8 hours to the body (you might consider that data point the next time you hear that you have to eat every three hours or your muscles will fall off.

Both casein and whey hit the bloodstream at about the same time (about an hour in), that is, whey didn’t actually get into the system faster. However, whey spiked blood amino acid levels higher at that one hour point.

See, [img]http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/12/proteingraphic.jpg[img]


I think the real issue that OP needs to hear is that whey is better at promoting protein synthesis, whereas casein is better at preventing protein breakdown. As you can see, both of these are important.

You beat me to it every time

[Dexter3000]

"You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to snorkelman again"

[JOSEF RAKICH]

Casein protein before bed = win.

[thegymbum]

THere is limited evidence that, the more time you keep your blood amino acid levels elevated, the more beneficial it is to muscle development, as it provides a steady flow of substrate for muscle protein synthesis to occur. Thus, if you take casein at night, it's going to provide a steady release of amino acids into the blood stream so muscles can have a more consistent, prolonged uptake and maximally stimulate muscle protein synthesis. The difference probably isn't huge, but I'll take it.

[MikeK46]

Thus, if you take casein at night, it's going to provide a steady release of amino acids into the blood stream so muscles can have a more consistent, prolonged uptake and maximally stimulate muscle protein synthesis. The difference probably isn't huge, but I'll take it.

The main benefit of a slow and steady release of amino acids is not for anabolic effects. Casein's benefit is that it is anti-catabolic. It prevents muscle breakdown, rather than stimulating muscle protein synthesis. Amino acid spikes (i.e. from whey) are the ones that are anabolic. Slightly elevated amino acid levels (i.e. from casein) are anti-catabolic.

[Cronos1247]

I just take 2 scoops of whey and a spoon of peanut butter, seems to do the trick for me. If you have the extra cash go for it.