New? Read This: Eating Before Bed

[TBU720]

this ancient method is being widely practiced by american citizens. it's called eating like a goddamn pig.

timing is important, but the overall food value is crucial and is #1 when it comes to bulking\gaining.

Yeah like I said I'm not against pre-bed meals. I just think it is important to show that it is not just a "superstition" and the knowledge came from studies of people who ate most or all of their calories very late in the day.

Thats an enormous difference from eating a 6th/7th meal or snack pre-bed, which has probably more benefits than problems.

[Scooter4]

I wouldn't say that there is zero effect of eating before bed. Or at least, I wouldn't say that calories consumed per day is the only thing that matters.

Sumo wrestlers gain thier fat by following an ancient method of training fasted all day, eating, take a nap, then eat again, and sleep for the night.

So will a normal person have problems if they eat a small meal before bed? No. But I don't think it is correct to say that timing your meals has NOTHING to do with the way your body handles the food.

No. Its because...

this ancient method is being widely practiced by american citizens. it's called eating like a goddamn pig.

timing is important, but the overall food value is crucial and is #1 when it comes to bulking\gaining.

sumos arent fat because of meal timing
they eat 15,000-20,000 calories a day
I also train fasted and eat my biggest meal before sleeping (all calories in final 6hrs of the day)

Those things. ^^^

Yeah like I said I'm not against pre-bed meals. I just think it is important to show that it is not just a "superstition" and the knowledge came from studies of people who ate most or all of their calories very late in the day.

Thats an enormous difference from eating a 6th/7th meal or snack pre-bed, which has probably more benefits than problems.

I still don't think you understand. Sure they eat all their calories in the second half of the day. However, all their calories consists of WAY more than they need to maintain. THAT is what causes them to put on fat and gain weight.

[steelo79]

I still don't think you understand. Sure they eat all their calories in the second half of the day. However, all their calories consists of WAY more than they need to maintain. THAT is what causes them to put on fat and gain weight.

no...YOU don't understand. the question isn't WHY they're fat. it's why individuals whose chief dietary concern is to get as fat as possible, choose to consume their calories in the manner in which they do. it's because there IS something to nutrient timing. it matters. period.

[Scooter4]

no...YOU don't understand. the question isn't WHY they're fat. it's why individuals whose chief dietary concern is to get as fat as possible, choose to consume their calories in the manner in which they do. it's because there IS something to nutrient timing. it matters. period.

How do you know that those sumo wrestlers (whose goal is to get as fat as possible) aren't just listening to the same myths about eating before bed as the majority of the population? Just because they do it, that makes it correct? The way you are speaking makes it seem like you think sumo wrestlers are some sort of experts on nutrition.

[steelo79]

question: do you see the validity of pre-workout supplements that provide an energy boost? if you answered "yes", would you advise someone to take that supplement AFTER their workout, or before bed? if you answered "no", then why not? exactly. now do with it as you will. it's your body. thank you, and good bye.

[Scooter4]

question: do you see the validity of pre-workout supplements that provide an energy boost? if you answered "yes", would you advise someone to take that supplement AFTER their workout, or before bed? if you answered "no", then why not? thank you. good bye.

That is completely different. Food eaten after working out helps you recover from that workout as well as fuel tomorrows workout.

[steelo79]

That is completely different. Food eaten after working out helps you recover from that workout as well as fuel tomorrows workout.

but wait a minute...i thought it "doesn't matter"? lol...ignorance is bliss.

[j4ck3d_N_Y]

no...YOU don't understand. the question isn't WHY they're fat. it's why individuals whose chief dietary concern is to get as fat as possible, choose to consume their calories in the manner in which they do. it's because there IS something to nutrient timing. it matters. period.

have you ever tried serious training on a full stomach?...not pleasant

but wait a minute...i thought it "doesn't matter"? lol...ignorance is bliss.

you are also talking out of your ass

[steelo79]

have you ever tried serious training on a full stomach?...not pleasant

i do it every day. full meal 30mins before my workout. also used to eat a big bowl of pasta and chicken before basketball practice. never have/had any problems. don't make the mistake of assuming everyone's body is the same as yours.

you are also talking out of your ass

explain...'cause i'm thinking you don't know DI@K about this topic.

[Scooter4]

but wait a minute...i thought it "doesn't matter"? lol...ignorance is bliss.

What are you trying to say? I made this post to talk about weight gain, weight loss, and body composition. What I am saying is that stored glycogen isn't automatically turned to fat when you sleep. It can be used for energy for tomorrow's workout.

[j4ck3d_N_Y]

i do it every day. full meal 30mins before my workout. also used to eat a big bowl of pasta and chicken before basketball practice. never have/had any problems. don't make the mistake of assuming everyone's body is the same as yours.

explain...'cause i'm thinking you don't know DI@K about this topic.

doubt your training is as intense as a sumo wrestlers lol...but anyway scooter is trying to prove a legitimate(and correct) point to you and youre dismissing him like a complete ass...and LMAO at u saying i dont know dick about this topic

[TheProgressiveOne]

This may be a little crazy...but i think this should be a sticky!!

[austinjt]

Personally, I am tired of the multiple threads that are posted every day asking about eating before bed. I am hoping either this (or another thread with more scientific facts) can be made into a sticky to help eliminate these threads.

There is nothing wrong with eating before bed. Weight gain/weight loss is determined by how many calories you eat during the day, not when you eat it. As long as you fit whatever you are eating before bed into your daily calorie/macro count, there is no harm done.

As for the best foods to eat before bed? The best foods to eat would be some form of casein protein (cottage cheese, milk, casein powder, etc) along with a fat source (olive oil, peanut butter, etc). The reasoning behind this is that casein protein is slow digesting and fat slows the digestion of protein. This results in your body receiving a slow release of nutrients throughout the night where your body is fasting and not receiving any food. However, as stated earlier, you can really eat whatever as long as you fit it in your macros. It doesn't have to be protein and fat... Carbs are just fine as well.

Mind pulling in any of those "scientific facts" to share...?

I'm not really taking a stance either way... I eat my pb & cot-cheese Late Night snack too... but I seem to remember reading journal references a while back about food before bed stunting HGH...

I also have read that insulin response is lowered in the evening as the body prepares to shut down for the night... therefore eating your carbs before bed (or even too big a helping of cottage cheese) may not be a smart idea.

There are a lot of in-shape ppl that eat before bed, but there are also a lot of out of shape ppl that do too...

Anybody have references on hand? The only way this type of thread should be made a sticky, is with some hard facts...

[Scooter4]

Mind pulling in any of those "scientific facts" to share...?

I'm not really taking a stance either way... I eat my pb & cot-cheese Late Night snack too... but I seem to remember reading journal references a while back about food before bed stunting HGH...

I also have read that insulin response is lowered in the evening as the body prepares to shut down for the night... therefore eating your carbs before bed (or even too big a helping of cottage cheese) may not be a smart idea.

There are a lot of in-shape ppl that eat before bed, but there are also a lot of out of shape ppl that do too...

Anybody have references on hand? The only way this type of thread should be made a sticky, is with some hard facts...

That's what I was saying someone could do if they wanted to... Create a new thread and post some scientific facts.

As for me, I am going by the hundreds of people on this website that monitor their diet closely. I am going by the hundreds of people on this site that eat whatever they want before bed as long as it fits their macros. I am going by the hundreds of people that are in awesome shape despite eating before bed. I am looking at the several people on these boards that IF and eat all their calories before bed. And most importantly, I am going by the zero claims I have seen about someone eating at maintenance calories or under maintenance before bed and gaining fat because of it. For me, that is all I personally need to believe that the food eaten before bed turns to fat myth is, indeed, a myth.

And this just adds to my beliefs: http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showth...hp?t=123915821

[austinjt]

That's what I was saying someone could do if they wanted to... Create a new thread and post some scientific facts.

As for me, I am going by the hundreds of people on this website that monitor their diet closely. I am going by the hundreds of people on this site that eat whatever they want before bed as long as it fits their macros. I am going by the hundreds of people that are in awesome shape despite eating before bed. I am looking at the several people on these boards that IF and eat all their calories before bed. And most importantly, I am going by the zero claims I have seen about someone eating at maintenance calories or under maintenance before bed and gaining fat because of it. For me, that is all I personally need to believe that the food eaten before bed turns to fat myth is, indeed, a myth.

And this just adds to my beliefs: http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showth...hp?t=123915821

The forum mob is fickle man.... From my experience ppl tend to often jump on an idea and pimp it til their blue... until some valid research comes out and everybody scratches their head for a sec and moves on.

It's easy to come to a convincing conclusion when everybody is validating each other... unfortunately with nobody's opinion being independent, it's hard to tell how real the words are.

That's why we call these discussions bro-science.... If you think the "eating before bed (even if it fits into your macros) is bad" notion is a "myth," how do you think those myths are created....

As for the actual topic at hand... here is something to think about... We have a major HGH surge during the first 30-70 minutes after falling asleep. One proven inhibitor of HGH is insulin. If you eat food right before bed, then you've just caused your pancreas to release insulin (unless you are eating only fructose or maybe just fat)....

This is not to say that the benefits of maybe higher protein synthesis outweighs the lower HGH... but it shows that there's always details playing out. It's very hard to make a hard and fast rule about nutrition. BS like that are sold in magazines bc it's easy to convince ppl of and it sells...

Here is the reference from wiki about the hgh, insulin. If somebody has a better journal reference, please post it.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Growth_hormone

Stimulators of GH secretion include:

peptide hormones
Growth hormone releasing hormone (GHRH) through binding to the growth hormone releasing hormone receptor (GHRHR)[5]
ghrelin through binding to growth hormone secretagogue receptors (GHSR)[6]
sex hormones[7]
increased androgen secretion during puberty (in males from testis and in females from adrenal cortex)
estrogen
clonidine and L-DOPA by stimulating GHRH release[8]
hypoglycaemia, arginine[9] and propranolol by inhibiting ****tostatin release[8]
deep sleep[10]
fasting[11]
vigorous exercise [12]

Inhibitors of GH secretion include:

****tostatin from the periventricular nucleus [13]
circulating concentrations of GH and IGF-1 (negative feedback on the pituitary and hypothalamus)[2]
hyperglycemia[8]
glucocorticoids[14]
dihydrotestosterone

[TBU720]

Do you even stop to think what it would mean if all that mattered was "cals in a day"?

It would mean your body has some kind of magic switch that says "Oh the day is over, time to start my new caloric intake"

I mean what if you ate 2500 cals right before bed, then 2500 the next morning, then nothing until the next night? Do you honestly think that there would be no difference in how the food is handled?

So then if you can do that, why cant you eat 5000 cals on monday, no food tuesday, 5000 cals wednesday? Cause that would be the same thing. 5000 cals in 24 hours, then 0 the next 24 hours.

[ChecksandGiggles]

I like steak before bed

[EmperorRyker]

Do you even stop to think what it would mean if all that mattered was "cals in a day"?

It would mean your body has some kind of magic switch that says "Oh the day is over, time to start my new caloric intake"

I mean what if you ate 2500 cals right before bed, then 2500 the next morning, then nothing until the next night? Do you honestly think that there would be no difference in how the food is handled?

So then if you can do that, why cant you eat 5000 cals on monday, no food tuesday, 5000 cals wednesday? Cause that would be the same thing. 5000 cals in 24 hours, then 0 the next 24 hours.

Well, "cals in a day" is only a generalization or an approximation, but one good enough for people to go by. In all actuality every moment (every damn nanosecond) matters, but not only are we not able to plan out such small fragments of time, even if we could we don't possess the necessary knowledge. And when you put forth examples such as you just did, you don't invalidate the "cals in a day" tenet, but go past it and move to extremes where such an approximation can no longer be made. Of course you can argue that you can't make an approximation like that in the first place, but the thing is studies have borne out that you can. There are still areas where details matter and stir the picture (such as around workout nutrition, etc.), but other than that paying attention to details is not only unnecessary, but can in some situations be even detrimental (for example, if you would to pay heed to a single detail that would in a short timeframe be more optimal than taking a "whatever" approach, but would in the longer run put you in a worse position).

[Murderfox]

So then if you can do that, why cant you eat 5000 cals on monday, no food tuesday, 5000 cals wednesday? Cause that would be the same thing. 5000 cals in 24 hours, then 0 the next 24 hours.

You can do that, it's called fasting. At the end of the week you'll be at the same amount of calories therefore your weight would have stayed the same.

[Scooter4]

Do you even stop to think what it would mean if all that mattered was "cals in a day"?

It would mean your body has some kind of magic switch that says "Oh the day is over, time to start my new caloric intake"

I mean what if you ate 2500 cals right before bed, then 2500 the next morning, then nothing until the next night? Do you honestly think that there would be no difference in how the food is handled?

So then if you can do that, why cant you eat 5000 cals on monday, no food tuesday, 5000 cals wednesday? Cause that would be the same thing. 5000 cals in 24 hours, then 0 the next 24 hours.

Well yeah... If ones maintenance is 2500 calories per day, then switching between eating 5000 calories one day, and fasting the next, would be the same thing. The individual would not gain weight. Would it be healthy though? I'm not sure. IF is a sticky subject in my opinion.

You can do that, it's called fasting. At the end of the week you'll be at the same amount of calories therefore your weight would have stayed the same.

This.

[Flyin Ryan]

Scoot, its a valiant effort, but some people refuse to believe anything different than what they're "taught" to be "right".

Keep doing what you do... I'll keep doing what I do... and let them keep doing what they do. Hopefully everyone achieves their desired results and that's all I can say. As for the "can I eat ________ before bed" threads... yeah... they're never going anywhere. Fml. =[

BTW, I eat a ton right before bed every night.

[Scooter4]

Scoot, its a valiant effort, but some people refuse to believe anything different than what they're "taught" to be "right".

Keep doing what you do... I'll keep doing what I do... and let them keep doing what they do. Hopefully everyone achieves their desired results and that's all I can say. As for the "can I eat ________ before bed" threads... yeah... they're never going anywhere. Fml. =[

BTW, I eat a ton right before bed every night.

Well the main reason I made this thread was to stop the several posts every day about eating before bed. Speaking of which, I haven't seen any in a while.

However, striking up some conflict and debate and debate is never a bad thing.

[steelo79]

you guys are missing the point, completely. it's actually quite comical. i'll try one more time, and then i'm out of this thread. if this debate were to be compared to...let's say...growing apples, NO ONE is saying that the "as long as it fits in your macros" crowd, can't grow apples with their method. we're just saying that you can grow much better and healthier apples if you pay more attention to what, when, where, why, and how, you grow those apples.

[Flyin Ryan]

No no I completely agree. Personally, I have pretty much the exact same outlook as you do on meal timing. It's BASICALLY irrelevant.

The only meal I'll admit I "fret" over is my meal directly after lifting.
Load it with protein, a good amount of carbs, and minimal fat.

**Edit - This message was directed at Scooter lol

[Scooter4]

you guys are missing the point, completely. it's actually quite comical. i'll try one more time, and then i'm out of this thread. if this debate were to be compared to...let's say...growing apples, NO ONE is saying that the "as long as it fits in your macros" crowd, can't grow apples with their method. we're just saying that you can grow much better and healthier apples if you pay more attention to what, when, where, why, and how, you grow those apples.

I understand your point dude and have this whole time. Sure there are things that are better to eat at certain times than others. For example, in my original post, I clearly state the the best option for something to eat before bed would be some casein protein along with some type of fat. That is the BEST option. Can you eat other things that fit your macros without it affecting your goals? Absolutely. Body composition will not suffer. Eating for top athletic performance is an entirely different subject.

Most of the people that post questions about eating before bed are people who are quite new to fitness and nutrition. If they get so hung up on meal timing, what to eat, when to eat it, they will most likely burn out. They can still get excellent results by "just fitting things in their macros" rather than worrying about the precise details that can be involved in nutrition.

[Sick96stang]

No less than sitting on your ass watching TV or on the computer.

I don't know clicking that remote/mouse is burning off some extra calories
I'm gonna go ahead and assume that nobody here has seen any studies done to prove that carbs before bed makes no difference. Before somebody jumps all over my ass I'm not saying carbs before bed is or isn't bad I was just wondering if anybody had seen proof of it in a study or something.

[dustinh6719]

I don't know clicking that remote/mouse is burning off some extra calories
I'm gonna go ahead and assume that nobody here has seen any studies done to prove that carbs before bed makes no difference. Before somebody jumps all over my ass I'm not saying carbs before bed is or isn't bad I was just wondering if anybody had seen proof of it in a study or something.

Honestly, I think a study would be Irrelevant too, Studies that show that eating before bed was bad or carbs before bed are bad, were most likely done on individuals who have already met there maintence and THEN ate more calories before bed, and pretty sedentary, It could also go the other way around. Say someone is 500 under maintence for the day and they eat 300 cals before bed, they are under maintence and therefore the study will show that eating before bed does not have bad effects.

[Sick96stang]

Honestly, I think a study would be Irrelevant too, Studies that show that eating before bed was bad or carbs before bed are bad, were most likely done on individuals who have already met there maintence and THEN ate more calories before bed, and pretty sedentary, It could also go the other way around. Say someone is 500 under maintence for the day and they eat 300 cals before bed, they are under maintence and therefore the study will show that eating before bed does not have bad effects.

Well that's why you would have a study with people eating at their maintenance just 1 group eats some of their carb cals directly before going to bed while the other doesn't.