DOMS, Two a days, old guys like me...

[Dw33z1L]

So…DOMS, routines, intensity, age, etc. I’m 45, have been working out for about 18 months. I have a four day on, one day off routine that –to date- has worked well for me. But, I’ve found that I don’t experience DOMS very much anymore, regardless of intensity, exercise (barbell v. cable v. dumbbells, etc.). I am very well toned, I just can’t seem to grow like I once did. I take creatine and White Flood before my workouts, and protein post workout. I eat well, and am…well, very fit. So, that’s a good thing.

However, I want to grow more…but not in the midsection. I am considering a 2x per day approach (on the same muscle group) for a month or so to see if that yields any results or if it becomes counter-productive. I sort of came upon this thought by accident…although, I know it’s not a new concept. I worked out during lunch last week, then a friend of mine –who I’ve been trying to get into the gym for years- finally decided he wanted to give it a go that evening…so I went to the gym again that evening and worked the same muscle group I worked earlier that day. I worked at the same (or slightly less) intensity, and experienced DOMS the following day(s). That got me to thinking that perhaps my body needed that extra “push” later in the day to really tear down the muscle for a more extensive recovery and (hopefully) subsequent growth.

For an older guy like me, is that asking for trouble? Or, is this something I should give a try and see how it goes? I realize that it’s more of a commitment to the gym, but if it yields results, I’m willing to give it a shot for a finite period of time (say 4-6 weeks). It’s just so frustrating when you feel as though you’re doing all the right things, and yet there is little in terms of results. I’ve never taken steroids, but man, I can see how some people could get frustrated enough to start taking them.

Your thoughts/opinions/suggestions are appreciated. Am I nuts? Sorry if this sounds like a n00by type question, but I was always told that the only dumb question is the one you don’t ask. Man, I sound like someone's dad...oh...wait, I am... Anyway, thanks for your help.

[Brackneyc]

So…DOMS, routines, intensity, age, etc. I’m 45, have been working out for about 18 months. I have a four day on, one day off routine that –to date- has worked well for me. But, I’ve found that I don’t experience DOMS very much anymore, regardless of intensity, exercise (barbell v. cable v. dumbbells, etc.). I am very well toned, I just can’t seem to grow like I once did. I take creatine and White Flood before my workouts, and protein post workout. I eat well, and am…well, very fit. So, that’s a good thing.

However, I want to grow more…but not in the midsection. I am considering a 2x per day approach (on the same muscle group) for a month or so to see if that yields any results or if it becomes counter-productive. I sort of came upon this thought by accident…although, I know it’s not a new concept. I worked out during lunch last week, then a friend of mine –who I’ve been trying to get into the gym for years- finally decided he wanted to give it a go that evening…so I went to the gym again that evening and worked the same muscle group I worked earlier that day. I worked at the same (or slightly less) intensity, and experienced DOMS the following day(s). That got me to thinking that perhaps my body needed that extra “push” later in the day to really tear down the muscle for a more extensive recovery and (hopefully) subsequent growth.

For an older guy like me, is that asking for trouble? Or, is this something I should give a try and see how it goes? I realize that it’s more of a commitment to the gym, but if it yields results, I’m willing to give it a shot for a finite period of time (say 4-6 weeks). It’s just so frustrating when you feel as though you’re doing all the right things, and yet there is little in terms of results. I’ve never taken steroids, but man, I can see how some people could get frustrated enough to start taking them.

Your thoughts/opinions/suggestions are appreciated. Am I nuts? Sorry if this sounds like a n00by type question, but I was always told that the only dumb question is the one you don’t ask. Man, I sound like someone's dad...oh...wait, I am... Anyway, thanks for your help.

A. You are not old.

B. I would not do 2x a day on the same group. If you do it right the first time, (at least for me anyway), you won't feel like doing it again that day.

If you want to grow, eat more and lift heavier. If you are going to add anything extra to your day (in the form of exercise), add some cardio later in the day.

JMO, but I would not do the same muscle group 2x in one day. I suppose you could split your routine into an AM/PM, and work two separate groups.

[x-trainer ben]

So…DOMS, routines, intensity, age, etc. I’m 45, have been working out for about 18 months. I have a four day on, one day off routine that –to date- has worked well for me. But, I’ve found that I don’t experience DOMS very much anymore, regardless of intensity, exercise (barbell v. cable v. dumbbells, etc.). I am very well toned, I just can’t seem to grow like I once did. I take creatine and White Flood before my workouts, and protein post workout. I eat well, and am…well, very fit. So, that’s a good thing.

However, I want to grow more…but not in the midsection. I am considering a 2x per day approach (on the same muscle group) for a month or so to see if that yields any results or if it becomes counter-productive. I sort of came upon this thought by accident…although, I know it’s not a new concept. I worked out during lunch last week, then a friend of mine –who I’ve been trying to get into the gym for years- finally decided he wanted to give it a go that evening…so I went to the gym again that evening and worked the same muscle group I worked earlier that day. I worked at the same (or slightly less) intensity, and experienced DOMS the following day(s). That got me to thinking that perhaps my body needed that extra “push” later in the day to really tear down the muscle for a more extensive recovery and (hopefully) subsequent growth.

For an older guy like me, is that asking for trouble? Or, is this something I should give a try and see how it goes? I realize that it’s more of a commitment to the gym, but if it yields results, I’m willing to give it a shot for a finite period of time (say 4-6 weeks). It’s just so frustrating when you feel as though you’re doing all the right things, and yet there is little in terms of results. I’ve never taken steroids, but man, I can see how some people could get frustrated enough to start taking them.

Your thoughts/opinions/suggestions are appreciated. Am I nuts? Sorry if this sounds like a n00by type question, but I was always told that the only dumb question is the one you don’t ask. Man, I sound like someone's dad...oh...wait, I am... Anyway, thanks for your help.

No your not crazy at all since many lunch time "speed" workouts are "less than satisfying" because of time or sweat issues. Many times that 30 min feels like you left some on the table so the natural thing to do would be to "finish" it later that evening. I have done them and have found no negatives other than extra tiredness the following day. It is easy for 12 sets to turn into 24 sets because it is split between 2 workouts. Just make sure that your nutrition and rest is up to par. Good luck

[ironwill2008]

Don't base any training assumptions on whether or not you get "sore;" it's not an indicator of anything more than you did some work.

As far as Two-A-Days go, leave them for those who train with 'assistance.' You should be training hard enough in your one daily session that you don't want to train again that day.

[ob205]

Don't base any training assumptions on whether or not you get "sore;" it's not an indicator of anything more than you did some work.

As far as Two-A-Days go, leave them for those who train with 'assistance.' You should be training hard enough in your one daily session that you don't want to train again that day.

^^^^^^^Solid advice here, and I would go farther to say you shouldn't train more than 4x a week at MOST.

Also, if all you want is soreness (which hasn't been proven as a sign of muscle stimulation), then you could do eccentric only workouts and be plenty sore, not saying that is most productive way to train, but if you live and die by DOMS then it is a surefire way to induce it.

[Maluket]

I don't think you need to work harder. I think you just need to work differently. It sounds kind of like you do the same routine, over and over, same weekly schedule, same everything. And you keep getting the same results because your body knows just what to expect and has adapted well to your exact routine, so sees no need to adapt further. Bodies are funny that way, often disagreeing with us about what they should do.

Standard disclaimers about me being a total newb and not knowing what I'm talking about apply.

[hochspeyer]

Everyone has given good advice. DOMS is not something I look forward to (I guess thats a bit weird around here). Its okay to say older- never say old.

Under no circumstance is it okay to say "toned."

[TheResistance]

4 on 1 off sounds too much already & your thinking of a change and doing more?

Why not do less?

[*STEVE*]

Under no circumstance is it okay to say "toned."

This ^

4 on 1 off sounds too much already & your thinking of a change and doing more?

Why not do less?

Please explain why is it to much ???

I workout with weights 6 times a week in the pm and do cardio daily in the am .... am I overtraining , no way no how , is my diet spot on and am I making gains ... damn rite !!!

No such thing as overtraining , only undereating and/or not having your diet in check.

lol @ why not do less ....

[Skidmarx]

I'm in the same camp....no DOMS and I'm totally bummed.

I'd try mixing up the workouts instead of twice a day. Your body can get used to a routine pretty quickly.

I've been cycling my rep/weight ranges on a 3 week cycle. So I have a medium weight/high rep week(10-15), med-heavy weight/normal reps(8-10), heavy weight/low reps(4-6).

I also mix up the exercises except for heavy week, which is pretty much all barbell exercises.

Works for me. Try it.

[chass]

Keep a Workout Log. If you lift more weight or do more reps each week, your doing something right. When you stop making gains switch routines and/or exercises. Simple as that.

[TheResistance]

This ^



Please explain why is it to much ???

I workout with weights 6 times a week in the pm and do cardio daily in the am .... am I overtraining , no way no how , is my diet spot on and am I making gains ... damn rite !!!

No such thing as overtraining , only undereating and/or not having your diet in check.

lol @ why not do less ....

I guess he could take your advice - oh, you didn't bother to give him any.

lol @ you coming in just to knock me - again.

PS its 'too' not 'to'.

[tonni]

Don't base any training assumptions on whether or not you get "sore;" it's not an indicator of anything more than you did some work.

As far as Two-A-Days go, leave them for those who train with 'assistance.' You should be training hard enough in your one daily session that you don't want to train again that day.

x 2 ( over training will have a negative affect ) training 4 days in a row with little rest between sessions is not a good idea . should take a look at your routine as well . a good 3 day a week with compound lifts ( rows , squats , deads and pressing ) is a good start . more is not always better..adding weight to the bar and a rep or two is going to be more productive . a good diet is a major plus

[ntrllftr]

4 on 1 off sounds too much already & your thinking of a change and doing more?

Why not do less?

How could you say that without knowing his split?

[BlowTorch]

No such thing as overtraining , only undereating and/or not having your diet in check.

Amen. Remember Lee Priest saying this over and over.

[tonni]

Amen. Remember Lee Priest saying this over and over.

he is not Lee Priest..and I don't think he is on "gear" either..

[Dw33z1L]

OK, I'm seeing some interesting advice here. So far, what makes the most sense to me is that I'm not switching things up enough. It is true that I "sort of" do the same routine over and over.

Day 1: Chest
Day 2: Bi's Tri's Lats
Day 3: Shoulders/traps
Day 4: legs
Day 5: off

Throw in some core and aerobic here and there, and that's pretty much my schedule. I try to switch up the SORT of exercise I do for each body part every 4 to 6 weeks. Perhaps, I'm not making a large enough switch. I'm also not varying the weight/reps too much. So, I think I need to look at two things:

1: Vary weight/reps
2: Vary exercise per body part

I will sideline the two-a-day idea for now, and focus on simply changing my routine up a bit. As for doing LESS, that's not gonna happen. I thoroughly enjoy my time at the gym, I don't feel as though I'm overtraining as I'm hitting each body part (primarily) every 5th day. I realize I'm working the same muscle (secondarily) throughout my routine though...so there may be some room for improvement there as well. At any rate, I feel great, have loads of energy, and am toned...I mean...um...in tune...nope...uh...hard bodied. Yeah, that's it, I'm a well-defined hard bodied 45 yr old...with most of his hair and all of his teeth. Yeah...that's the ticket.

Thanks everyone for your advice. It will be applied as appropriate.

[joenj07087]

he is not Lee Priest..and I don't think he is on "gear" either..

excellent point!


I get the feeling that people assume that training and recovering on gear is the same as without, not everyone here is on gear and to even suggest that if it is alright for someone like Lee Priest it should be alright with everyone is down right scary!


and for people not doing Gear, "overtraining" is a very horrific possibility that can hold you back big time!

[*STEVE*]

I guess he could take your advice - oh, you didn't bother to give him any.

lol @ you coming in just to knock me - again.

PS its 'too' not 'to'.

*facepalm*


was tryin to play nice but seein as your gonna act like an ass , heres some overdue negs

[KAbjorn]

So…DOMS, routines, intensity, age, etc. I’m 45, have been working out for about 18 months. I have a four day on, one day off routine that –to date- has worked well for me. But, I’ve found that I don’t experience DOMS very much anymore, regardless of intensity, exercise (barbell v. cable v. dumbbells, etc.). I am very well toned, I just can’t seem to grow like I once did. I take creatine and White Flood before my workouts, and protein post workout. I eat well, and am…well, very fit. So, that’s a good thing.

However, I want to grow more…but not in the midsection. I am considering a 2x per day approach (on the same muscle group) for a month or so to see if that yields any results or if it becomes counter-productive. I sort of came upon this thought by accident…although, I know it’s not a new concept. I worked out during lunch last week, then a friend of mine –who I’ve been trying to get into the gym for years- finally decided he wanted to give it a go that evening…so I went to the gym again that evening and worked the same muscle group I worked earlier that day. I worked at the same (or slightly less) intensity, and experienced DOMS the following day(s). That got me to thinking that perhaps my body needed that extra “push” later in the day to really tear down the muscle for a more extensive recovery and (hopefully) subsequent growth.

For an older guy like me, is that asking for trouble? Or, is this something I should give a try and see how it goes? I realize that it’s more of a commitment to the gym, but if it yields results, I’m willing to give it a shot for a finite period of time (say 4-6 weeks). It’s just so frustrating when you feel as though you’re doing all the right things, and yet there is little in terms of results. I’ve never taken steroids, but man, I can see how some people could get frustrated enough to start taking them.

Your thoughts/opinions/suggestions are appreciated. Am I nuts? Sorry if this sounds like a n00by type question, but I was always told that the only dumb question is the one you don’t ask. Man, I sound like someone's dad...oh...wait, I am... Anyway, thanks for your help.

Doms does not mean growth at all. DOMS means your muscles are going Oh shi*t wtf was that?

I had to read some studies for my Anatomical Kinesiology class in which generally speaking, DOMS ignited less muscle growth then a regular well planned workout. DOMS is your body's way of saying "don't ever do that to me again".

Oh and by the way, if you want soreness, just do eccentric contractions. The process of bringing the weight "down" actually causes more soreness and stress then bringing it up, but not the gains. There was one study done in which a person was assisted in bringing 120% of their max dumbbell curl up, and then they lowered it themselves. Caused intense muscle damage, and extreme muscle stress.

[Marius_Ursus]

No such thing as overtraining , only undereating and/or not having your diet in check.

CNS fatigue, brother.

[BlowTorch]

he is not Lee Priest..and I don't think he is on "gear" either..

Really?

[*STEVE*]

CNS fatigue, brother.

Ya I get what your sayin but theres ways to improve that and your recovery time too.