Creatine Nitrate, any good?

[Hightower8]

This thread has delivered on so many levels.

Kudos: Neuron, NO HYPE and Bane. So much intelligence.

[KimJong-il]

This thread has delivered on so many levels.

Kudos: Neuron, NO HYPE and Bane. So much intelligence.

They are some of the best around! Wish Bane was still around more often though.

[Quadzilla99]

Det neuron guy has been over on phf lately

[Steve3892]

Creatine - track.moreniche.com/hit.php?w=168081&s=219&a=12903
I received the order and it was on time and the pills work great.

[Manubebe1]

1- Yes, it is safe to use however if you dose nitrates too high you will get headaches. You may get these at first before you build up more of a tolerance to it, if you do I suggest using some caffeine because in my experience it complely gets rid of the nitrate headaches.

2- It is by far the best form of creatine I have used. Pumps are insane and eliminates the need for any type of preworkout product for pumps. Strength gains were also nice.

Would u recommend it to a woman? I do NOT want to get buff I just want pure lean muscle and weight loss..
I'm asking cuz I remember at 1 point I was using C4 extreme pre-workout and was getting really defined muscles..
but was taking other stuff too but nothing that contains creatine... do u think that might b it?
Cuz if it is I'm going to buy it again asap lol thxx

[KimJong-il]

Would u recommend it to a woman? I do NOT want to get buff I just want pure lean muscle and weight loss..
I'm asking cuz I remember at 1 point I was using C4 extreme pre-workout and was getting really defined muscles..
but was taking other stuff too but nothing that contains creatine... do u think that might b it?
Cuz if it is I'm going to buy it again asap lol thxx

Woman are totally fine with creatine nitrate imo. Just may want to start lower dosed so you can assess your tolerance to nitrates (taking too much you may get lightheaded.)

[Mr.Cooper69]

Would u recommend it to a woman? I do NOT want to get buff I just want pure lean muscle and weight loss..
I'm asking cuz I remember at 1 point I was using C4 extreme pre-workout and was getting really defined muscles..
but was taking other stuff too but nothing that contains creatine... do u think that might b it?
Cuz if it is I'm going to buy it again asap lol thxx

You weren't getting defined muscles from using a preworkout

[KimJong-il]

You weren't getting defined muscles from using a preworkout

Maybe...the nitrates may have a mild diuretic effect, so if she already had low body fat it may make a bit of a difference. Dunno what do you think?

[Mr.Cooper69]

Maybe...the nitrates may have a mild diuretic effect, so if she already had low body fat it may make a bit of a difference. Dunno what do you think?

To be that significant, I don't know. If we were talking about something like alcohol, I'd believe the transient "lean" look

[p0fell0w]

Can you buy bulk creatine nitrate?

[harleyawkerman]

Hey I have a piggy back question. I've been taking Universal supploment brand monohydrate creatine for a nice while. I've been taking two serving of 5g e.c on lifting days and one scoop on off days. Now my problem is my water in take has to be so high I'm always using the bathroom. So with nitrate do you need to drink water at all for it to work?

[harleyawkerman]

[QUOTE=harleyawkerman;1286380911]Hey I have a piggy back question. I've been taking Universal supploment brand monohydrate creatine for a nice while. I've been taking two serving of 5g e.c on lifting days and one scoop on off days. Now my problem is my water in take has to be so high I'm always using the bathroom. So with nitrate do you need to drink water at all for it to work?

[KimJong-il]

Hey I have a piggy back question. I've been taking Universal supploment brand monohydrate creatine for a nice while. I've been taking two serving of 5g e.c on lifting days and one scoop on off days. Now my problem is my water in take has to be so high I'm always using the bathroom. So with nitrate do you need to drink water at all for it to work?

Why is your water intake so high? With creatine you dont need to over-drink water, you just need to be hydrated well as any athlete should. Hydration may help aid the pump, so for best effect with nitrate I would just be sure your hydrated.

[cumminslifter]

Why is your water intake so high? With creatine you dont need to over-drink water, you just need to be hydrated well as any athlete should. Hydration may help aid the pump, so for best effect with nitrate I would just be sure your hydrated.

this^ i love how people think you have to drowned yourself in water when using creatine

[manuelthebeast]

APS CREATINE NITRATE IS GLUTEN FREE? THE ALLERGENs?
aps creatine nitrate+250 mg vit c(for a total 500 mg)+ NAC with agmatine and citrulline.

[cybex84]

Nitrate its a no go for health, read this article. Its a cancer related stuff.

ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1310926/

[KimJong-il]

Nitrate its a no go for health, read this article. Its a cancer related stuff.

ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1310926/

Its all good bud...no need to worry about that. Your G2G!

The carcinogenic potential of N-nitrosamines primarily pertains to well-done meats cooked at temperatures at and/or above 392 degrees fahrenheit.

Argonne National Laboratory, EVS Human Health Fact Sheet, August 2005
Nitrate and Nitrite

What Happens to It in the Body? Nitrate is a normal component of the human diet, with the average daily intake from all sources estimated at 75 milligrams (mg), or about 0.0026 ounce. Upon ingestion, about 5% of the nitrate taken in by healthy adults is converted (reduced) to nitrite by bacteria in saliva. Further nitrate is converted by bacteria inside the alimentary tract. Certain conditions in the stomach can increase the conversion of nitrate to nitrite, specifically when the pH of the gastric fluid is high enough (above 5) to favor the growth of nitrate-reducing bacteria. This process is of major concern for infants, whose gastrointestinal systems normally have a higher pH than those of adults. Nitrites in the stomach can react with food proteins to form N-nitroso compounds; these compounds can also be produced when meat containing nitrites or nitrates is cooked, particularly using high heat. [While these compounds are carcinogenic in test animals, evidence is inconclusive regarding their potential to cause cancer (such as stomach cancer) in humans].

What Are Current Limits for Environmental Releases and Human Exposure?

The EPA requires that sodium nitrite releases of more than 100 lb (45.4 kg) and nitrate releases of more than 10,000 lb (4,540 kg) be reported immediately and that normal releases be reported annually for inclusion in the nationwide Toxics Release Inventory. The limits for nitrosamines range from 1 to 10 pounds. The EPA primary drinking water standards for nitrate and nitrite are 10 and 1 parts per million (ppm), respectively. The Food and Drug Administration allows these compounds to be used as food additives as long as they are of food grade and are added only in the amount needed. The maximum amount of nitrite allowed in smoked and cured fish and meat is 200 ppm. http://www.ead.anl.gov/pub/doc/nitrate-ite.pdf

ISHS Acta Horticulturae 563: International Conference on Environmental Problems Associated with Nitrogen Fertilisation of Field Grown Vegetable Crops
HEALTH EFFECTS OF NITRATES AND NITRITES, A REVIEW
Authors: A. boink, G. Speijers
Keywords: methaemoglobinaemia, hypotension, hypertrophy, adrenal zona glomerulosa, toxicology, carcinogenesis

In this presentation the acceptable daily intake (ADI) of nitrate is discussed together with the effects of nitrate and nitrite as found in toxicological studies. The toxicity of nitrate per se is low but in humans 5-10 % of nitrate is converted into the more toxic nitrite by salivary or gastrointestinal reduction. The toxic effects of nitrite are methaemoglobinaemia and fall of blood pressure. Nitrite - induced hypertrophy of the adrenal zona glomerulosa is considered as a physiological adaptation to repeated episodes of low blood pressure and not as a toxic effect. There is no evidence that nitrite is carcinogenic. It is concluded that the current recommendations for nitrate intake pose no threat for human health. Incidental intake exceeding the ADI causes negligible risk. However, high nitrate intake for a prolonged period should be avoided. http://www.actahort.org/members/show...oknrarnr=563_2

[KimJong-il]

Just a little more here couldnt fit it in one post....

7.2 Toxicity

7.2.1 Human data

7.2.1.1 Adults

The lethal oral dose of potassium nitrate for an adult has been estimated to be between 4 and 30 g (about 40 to 300 mg NO3- kg). It has been reported that adults have tolerated large doses of nitrate as sodium and ammonium salt (> 100 mg NO3-/kg) in some cases repeated for several days for medical or experimental purposes with only minor effects in some subjects (light methaemoglobinemia, diarrhoea, vomiting). Death and severe effects of nitrate ingestion are generally associated with doses above 10 g NO3-.http://www.inchem.org/documents/pims...ionTitle:7.2.1

Human data

Severe methaemoglobinemia exceeding 70% may be associated with fatal outcome.

Methaemoglobin levels correlate well with symptoms in most cases (Hall et al., 1986):

0-3% Normal level
3-10% No clinical symptoms
10-15% None or slate grey cutaneous coloration "chocolate brown" blood
15-20% Generalized blue-grey cyanosis, usually asymptomatic
20-45% Headache, fatigue, dizziness, exercise intolerance, syncope
45-55% Increasing CNS depression
55-65% Coma, seizures, cardiac failure, cardiac arrhythmias, metabolic acidosis
> 65% High incidence of mortality

2.1 Main risks and target organs
The major acute toxic effect of nitrate and nitrite [poisoning] is methaemoglobinaemia. Blood is the target organ. Methaemoglobin reduces the oxygen-carrying capacity of the blood and in addition, it shifts the oxyhaemoglobin dissociation curve to the left interfering with the unloading of oxygen. Hypotension and collapse may also occur. The principal concern with exposure to nitrate is its biological reduction to reactive and toxic nitrite. Nitrate itself is rather harmless.

4.2 High risk circumstances of poisoning
Accidental exposure: Accidental addition of nitrates/nitrites to food in mistake for common salt has resulted in poisoning.

Intentional exposure: Employees with access to nitrites at work, e.g. laboratory personnel, have occasionally attempted suicide through ingestion of nitrite.

Medical exposure: Mashed carrot widely used to treat infant diarrhoea has occasionally resulted in intake of toxic amounts of nitrate (ECETOC, 1988).

Sodium nitrite given intravenously is traditionally used as an antidote in cyanide poisoning (see Section 5.5).

Other types of exposure: The major concern of nitrate and nitrite is associated with intake of food and water. Drinking water contains variable amounts of nitrate. The statutory limits vary slightly from country to country, but is usually either maximum 10 mg NO3--N/L(= 44.3 mg NO3-/L) in the USA or maximum 50 mg NO3-/L in the EU.

Plants contain nitrate as a normal cell constituent and vegetables are usually the main dietary source of nitrate. Normal daily intake varies with dietary customs, 50 to 150 mg NO3-/day seems typical for a western diet. Vegetarians can exceed this, with daily intakes of over 300 mg NO3- (Walker, 1990).

Dietary exposure to nitrites is normally very low, commonly <2 mg NO2-/day and usually <5 mg/day per capita (<0.1 mg/kg/day) (Walker, 1990). Exceptionally, higher levels may result from microbial reduction of nitrates in hygienically poor quality well water or in foods rich in nitrates stored under inappropriate conditions. Bacterial reduction of nitrate secreted in the saliva and gastric juice is usually the source of nitrite (Eisenbrand et al., 1980; Mueller et al., 1986). NAS (1981) estimated that approximately 3.5 mg NO2- is formed per day in an average adult in the USA. This process is dependent upon several factors (e.g. nitrate intake) and varies substantially between individuals.

6.2 Distribution by route of exposure
Regardless of route of exposure, nitrate and nitrite are rapidly transferred into the blood. Nitrite is gradually oxidized to nitrate which is readily distributed into mostly body fluids (urine, saliva, gastric juice, sweat, ileostomy fluid). Distribution of nitrate into plasma, erythrocytes, saliva and urine following an oral dose of sodium nitrate has been demonstrated by Cortas & Wakid (1991).

6.3 Biological half-life by route of exposure
Wagner et al. (1983) showed the half-life in the body for an oral dose of nitrate to be approximately 5 hours. As blood absorption depends on food matrix (see Section 6.1) and route of exposure, and as larger doses may increase the urinary excretion rate, the biological half-life for both nitrate and nitrite should be expected to be 3 to 8 hours. Nitrate does not accumulate in the body.

6.4 Metabolism
Where bacteria are present and the environment can be anaerobic, nitrate can be reduced to nitrite. The main site for this reaction is mouth and stomach, but nitrite formation in the lower intestine and in the bladder (urinary infection) may also be of some toxicological importance.

Nitrite may be further reduced to nitrogen by bacteria under some conditions. In blood, nitrite transforms haemoglobin to methaemoglobin and is simultaneously oxidized to nitrate. Normally methaemoglobin gradually reverts to haemoglobin through enzymatic reactions.

Nitrite has vasodilating properties, probably through transformation into nitric oxide (NO) or a NO-containing molecule acting as a signal factor for smooth muscle relaxation.

Nitrite easily transforms into a nitrosating agent in an acidic environment and can react with a variety of compounds, e.g. ascorbic acid, amines, amides.

Nitrosation can also be mediated by bacteria, e.g. in the stomach. Some reaction products are carcinogenic (e.g. most nitrosoamines and amides.

7.2 Toxicity
7.2.1 Human data
7.2.1.1 Adults
The lethal oral dose of potassium nitrate for an adult has been estimated to be between 4 and 30 [GRAMS] (about 40 to 300 mg NO3- kg).

It has been reported that adults have tolerated large doses of nitrate as sodium and ammonium salt (> 100 mg NO3-/kg) in some cases repeated for several days for medical or experimental purposes with only minor effects in some subjects (light methaemoglobinemia, diarrhoea, vomiting). Death and severe effects of nitrate ingestion are generally associated with doses above 10 g NO3-.

7.3 Carcinogenicity
There is no evidence that nitrate or nitrite as such cause cancer in animals (ECETOC, 1988). However, a causative connection between nitrate/nitrite and cancer through the formation of N-nitroso compounds is suspected.

The role of nitrate and nitrite in the etiology of cancer in humans, especially gastric cancer, is addressed in numerous studies which are reviewed and discussed by Walker (1990), Forman et al. (1989), ECETOC (1988), IARC (1987) and WHO (1985). Included are also epidemiological studies seeking to find correlation between frequency of cancer and nitrate intake with food and water. Evidence from these sources does not support the hypothesis of a straightforward cause and effect association between nitrate exposure and cancer risk (Forman, 1989).

7.6 Interactions
Methaemoglobinemia can also result from several other chemical compounds; e.g. Acetanilide, o-Aminophenol, p-Aminophenol, Aniline, Dimethylaniline, Hydroxylamine, p-Nitroaniline, Nitrobenzene, Nitro-glycerine and Amylnitrite (Clayton & Clayton, 1981). Cases have also been reported due to the use and overdose of some medicines, e.g. benzocaine, dapsone. There should thus be potential for synergism between methaemoglobin-forming substances and nitrite, but we are not aware of any studies on this topic.

9.1.1 Ingestion
Ingestion is the major route of exposure. The first symptoms may appear within 10 to 45 minutes. Methaemoglobinaemia is the principal and constant feature of nitrate/nitrite poisoning.

Clinical symptoms may include: nausea, vomiting, abdominal pain, headache, dizziness, fall in blood pressure, tachycardia, collapse, bluish-grey cyanosis, hyperventilation, stupor, convulsions, coma and death.

9.3 Course, prognosis, cause of death
In mild cases, gastrointestinal symptoms and asymptomatic cyanosis dominate the clinical presentation. In severe cases coma and death can occur in the first hour due to hypoxia (severe methaemoglobinaemia) and circulatory collapse. In case of parenteral administration the onset of methaemoglobinaemia is immediate. Prognosis is usually good if adequate treatment is provided.

Death due to nitrates and nitrites have resulted from large suicidal ingestions, ingestion of contaminated food, industrial accidents and ingestion of contaminated well water in neonates (Harris et al., 1979; Gosselin et al., 1984; Johnson et al., 1987; Donovan, 1990).

9.4 Systematic description of clinical effects
9.4.1 Cardiovascular
Acute: Nitrite produces relaxation of smooth muscle, especially in veins, but also in coronary and peripheral arteries. Venous pooling in the lower extremities leads to a decreased cardiac preload and output inducing hypotension and thus ischemia of vital organs. Hypotension and syncope induced by large doses of nitrite is due initially to the pooling of blood in dilated post-arteriolar vessels, notably venules and even large veins. This vasodilation is not blocked by atropine or by any recognized drug. Reflex tachycardia is the rule but a vasovagal reflex may induce transient bradycardia just before complete collapse (Gosselin et al., 1984; Donovan, 1990). This collapse can occur from marked vasodilation, decreased cardiac output and vital organ anoxia. Arythmias have been reported (Gowans, 1990) Electrographic changes of hyperkalemia (peaked T waves) have been reported by Sporer and Mayer (1991) in a 37-year-old man who had ingested saltpeter (potassium nitrate).

9.4.3 Neurological
9.4.3.1 Central Nervous System (CNS)
Headache, dizziness, restlessness, agitation and confusion are common in moderate poisoning. In severe cases, stupor, convulsions and coma can occur as a result of cerebral anoxia.

9.4.10 Haematological
Acute: Methaemoglobinaemia is the principal and constant feature of acute nitrate and nitrite [poisoning]. Methaemoglobin is haemoglobin in which the iron has been oxidized to the ferric state, Fe3+, rendering it incapable of oxygen transport. Methaemoglobin exerts its toxicity in two ways: (a) it reduces the oxygen-carrying capacity of the blood; (b) in addition, it shifts the oxyhaemoglobin dissociation curve to the left, interfering with the unloading of oxygen (Donovan, 1990; Goldfrank, 1990).

In mild cases, slate grey cyanosis may be visible only in the lips and mucous membranes.

The appearance of cyanosis also depends on the total haemoglobin, oxygen saturation, skin pigmentation, and ******t lighting.

9.4.15 Special risks
Human red cells deficient in glucose-6-phosphate dehydrogenase are more sensitive to the methaemoglobin-generating activities of nitrite than normal red cells (Gosselin et al., 1984). Patients with congenital NADPH Methb Reductase deficiency are also particularly susceptible to nitrates/nitrites.

http://www.inchem.org/documents/pims...ionTitle:7.2.1

[cybex84]

Just a little more here couldnt fit it in one post....

This theme on nitrates are controversial, because there's some studies like yours that states that there's no cancer relation but in the one i posted there is!!!!.

ARTICLE: ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1310926/

Don't take it the wrong way on this but my viewpoint on this related to your articles is that we already know that overcooked meat are already a potencial carcinogenic because of the nitrites. In you article i saw an average daily intake of nitrates per person of 75mg. Also there was an area in your article that i saw that the toxicity levels are an ingestion of 4-30g. So if we have an average daily intake of 75mg of nitrates, we add creatine nitrate 1g per serving and there's ppl that over use the supplements!!!!

Also there's already nitrites on uncooked red meat that has been used as a fungus and bacteria prevention. There's nitrates in water and plants!!!. We have a lot of this stuff around, why do we want more to reach those dangerous levels. I've read some people having headaches using the creatine nitrate and that symptom according to your article gets to the 20-45% of Methaemoglobin levels.

*nitrates convert certain % to nitrites that are the carcinogenic stuff, that also leads the production of methemoglobin instead of oxyhemoglobin. Methemoglobin cannot bind oxygen to be transported to the body areas that need it. It might harm your workout by falling into a fatigue state, leading to a poor coordination and contraction, even if you might unnoticed it you could be doing better by having more oxygen flowing. If there's no good contraction there's not going to be a good fiber tearing, if there's no fiber tearing there's not going to be a good amount of fiber to be repaired by the ingested proteins and that equals to no good gains!!!.

I still prefer the creatine monohydrate as it have a lot of clinical studies and no dangerous substance. hehe!!!

[ReligiousMuscle]

Just a little more here couldnt fit it in one post....

Dude what happed with C-Bol? I loved that stuff and can't find it anywhere

[manuelthebeast]

APS CREATINE NITRATE IS GLUTEN FREE? THE ALLERGENs?