Anabolic Window

[EjnarKolinkar]

Tell us more about yourself and your program. And what a great thread to bump :/






:x

[dcolumbus]

Tell us more about yourself and your program. And what a great thread to bump :/

:x

I'm assuming you're talking to me? :P

Sorry about bumping this particular post, I was just doing some research and happened upon it.

I've posted elsewhere about my body type, but here goes:

I'm 6'2", currently 195lbs, I'm a Web Developer (so I sit on my ass for a living) and I try to lift 5 days a week (M-F).

Right now I'm following the Bigger Leaner Stronger program by Mike Matthews.

I've been told I need to consume 2000 calories, 3500 calories, 2500 calories, 2352 calories ... Ugh. And the macro advise is ALL over the place!

I'm hovering between 18-22% BF, but probably closer to 22%. I've been told that I should cut before building muscle (bulking) and I've also been told "Just bulk dude. Muscle burns fat!"

ARG!

[hmmmm16417]

I'm assuming you're talking to me? :P

Sorry about bumping this particular post, I was just doing some research and happened upon it.

I've posted elsewhere about my body type, but here goes:

I'm 6'2", currently 195lbs, I'm a Web Developer (so I sit on my ass for a living) and I try to lift 5 days a week (M-F).

Right now I'm following the Bigger Leaner Stronger program by Mike Matthews.

I've been told I need to consume 2000 calories, 3500 calories, 2500 calories, 2352 calories ... Ugh. And the macro advise is ALL over the place!

I'm hovering between 18-22% BF, but probably closer to 22%. I've been told that I should cut before building muscle (bulking) and I've also been told "Just bulk dude. Muscle burns fat!"

ARG!

Everyone is different when it comes to calories and macros.

Go here to figure out you baseline (tdee) http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showth...hp?t=156380183
And check out the links here http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showth...hp?t=136691851

Use www.iifym.com to figure out a "ballpark" to start at.


Nutrition is a huge part and although it take some time to figure out exactly what YOUR body needs, but once you do it's SO much easier

Hope this helps

[gavinjenkins12]

when i get home post workout i normally have a protein blend shake(egg, casein, whey) and a banana , generally a handfull of mixed nuts and some cold meat.
this keeps me going till my main meal at dinner time.
( i general go to the gym around 13.00hrs )

[Mojoke]

I do, and here is why.

I been following the supplementation and nutrition schedule outlined in this thread for the last 15 months and I've had the best period of lean mass development in my life[/url]

I am tired as hell during my workout if I consume high glycemic carbs before my workout as the scheme suggests. I feel all lazy and wobly, so that's really not the way to go for me.
I do agree on high glycemic carbs right after workout though.

[pharmamarketer]

Entered thinking 2nd Chance was back.....nope

[2nd_chance]

Entered thinking 2nd Chance was back.....nope

Where'd I go?!

[baker]

Where'd I go?!

Sup bro.

[2nd_chance]

Sup bro.

Doing good... you're looking ripped

[LEZA1990LEZA]

OP...be fooling you and me if I said i knew the answer

As far as studies go showing one thing or another- unless its University type study...I'm not buying it.

My case...a study of n=1.....been using PWO shakes religiously for 3 years prior to this year.

This year none.

No protein powders either. Just good quality protein.

Proof will be in the pudding, so to speak, in 12 weeks when I finally "unwrap" what I've built

So far though...I'm definitely bigger and stronger than previous years but again that might be due to other factors, synergy and chance

One thing...it cant hurt.

[LEZA1990LEZA]

I have my shake as soon as i get home from the gym which takes about 15 minutes then follow up with a meal 60-90 minutes later.

[DuracellBunny]

My case...a study of n=1.....been using PWO shakes religiously for 3 years prior to this year.

This year none.

No protein powders either. Just good quality protein.

I have my shake as soon as i get home from the gym which takes about 15 minutes then follow up with a meal 60-90 minutes later.

Which is it?

Oh and btw, this is the O35.

[JOHN GARGANI]

Proof will be in the pudding, so to speak, in 12 weeks when I finally "unwrap" what I've built

based upon your avatar, and speaking for the group, I say "unwrap" right now!


lol......

[sytun]

I do, and here is why.

I been following the supplementation and nutrition schedule outlined in this thread for the last 15 months and I've had the best period of lean mass development in my life: http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=584191

I've referenced the thread many times. It is titled, "The perfect supplements before/following exercise"

Of particular interest is the actual supplementation schedules on post 34: http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showpo...5&postcount=34

And the references on post 35: http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showpo...9&postcount=35

rep'd - awesome link.

I've been doing CBL for about 6 weeks now and I feel like maybe i'm experiencing the holy grail (gaining mass while losing fat)

I was on 2000 cal cut for about 12 weeks prior to finding out about CBL, I moved back off a deficit back to maintenance over about 3 weeks with the intention of staying there for a month or so over the summer. During this time i've been continued to drop bodyfat despite getting almost 700 more cals a day whilst also doing away with some light cardio.

Over the last 3 weeks i've continued to creep up my cals, i'm now on 2850 which puts me 150cals over my maintenance, my BF% still seems to be dropping (abs becoming more defined)

For those of you who are unaware of CBL (Carb Back loading) it basically comes down to holding off on carb consumption until you work out (afternoon if possible) and then smashing your carbs afterwards.

Here is a link to a talk on it:




Before the "Cals in vs Cals out" brigade jump on their high horses and charge, I've been a strong believer in "cals in vs cals out" for years and sort of still am, I'm totally expecting to see some sort of BF% increase now i'm in a surplus, but as of yet it's like some sort of magical dream involving ice cream and bacon smeared over Nicole Scherzinger's naked body.

[OutOfStep]

rep'd - awesome link.

I've been doing CBL for about 6 weeks now and I feel like maybe i'm experiencing the holy grail (gaining mass while losing fat)

I was on 2000 cal cut for about 12 weeks prior to finding out about CBL, I moved back off a deficit back to maintenance over about 3 weeks with the intention of staying there for a month or so over the summer. During this time i've been continued to drop bodyfat despite getting almost 700 more cals a day whilst also doing away with some light cardio.

Over the last 3 weeks i've continued to creep up my cals, i'm now on 2850 which puts me 150cals over my maintenance, my BF% still seems to be dropping (abs becoming more defined)

For those of you who are unaware of CBL (Carb Back loading) it basically comes down to holding off on carb consumption until you work out (afternoon if possible) and then smashing your carbs afterwards.

Here is a link to a talk on it:




Before the "Cals in vs Cals out" brigade jump on their high horses and charge, I've been a strong believer in "cals in vs cals out" for years and sort of still am, I'm totally expecting to see some sort of BF% increase now i'm in a surplus, but as of yet it's like some sort of magical dream involving ice cream and bacon smeared over Nicole Scherzinger's naked body.

No such thing as a holy grail, nor is their anything new about a cyclical ketogenic diet. This one just happens to have a cool sounding name. You are probably looking a bit tighter due to the extra carb intake as your muscles are filling out with glycogen and pulling water from under the skin. I would not expect much fat gain eating only 150 kcal over maintenance for a few weeks. No magic here. Cals in vs. cals out still applies despite what Kiefer or any other guy recycling yesterday's diets as something new and revolutionary would have you believe.

[Benzels]

This is one of the best forum debates ever!! Im commenting to put in my 2 cents- but mostly to bump this thread and see if anyone still wants to debate it. A few years have passed and maybe new "groundbreaking " studies have been done. Lmao!! Ive been training on and off half seriously for 8 years now. Id do between 4 and 6 months of serious training and get some good gains then go out and party my ass off for up to 6 months and forget about diet and training-and lose all my gains. Ive always been skinny lean and tonned from lots of sport and not being a grazer type eater, id usually skip brekkie and just have a coffee or at best a banana smoothie-no protein and a single ham sandwich for lunch and then eat a huge dinner- a 2 lb steak was not that uncommon. I averaged 135 pounds with under 10% bf. At first i tried all the gimmick diets and training plans looking for the magic formula to gain size. 3 or 4 pounds of lean gains in my 4-6 months of training periods was common despite trying low carb, high protien diets, then id lose it all when i was out partying and not eating. 9 months ago i got serious after a 11 month binge of not training, and got all the supps like creatine and bcaa and protein powder. I got a PT and set out a training plan and meal plan. And i trained full body twice a week for 2 months then each body part twice a week. Oats and a protein shake for brekkie, 90 mins to digest then 45mins to an hr of hard wrk in the gym. Then two slices of toast and another shake when i got home. I make sure i get a meal in every 3 hrs thats about 60% protein and 30 % carbs and 10% fat. Then another shake before bed. And doing that has worked for me better then anything else ive tried. I read ALOT online about training and nutrition. I talk to my PT alot and even though he has a college degree in fitness and nutrition i can hold my own with him with what i know- even the finer details of why certain cellular activities happen ect. When i think about changing something up i run it past him first to see what he says. 9/10 times my plan has merit. The other times it makes him laugh his ass off. Im traing for the army,and have very specific goals of trying to build as much muscle as i can before basic training but also to make sure that muscle is as strong as it can be for long periods of time, not just 8-12 reps but for 4-5 sets of up to 20 reps. My nutrition has been key to me making staggering gains in a very short amout of time. I have gone from struggling with an empty olympic bar bench press (44lbs) for 10 reps to 90lbs for 15 reps in only 6 months. Sure its not a heavy weight by anyones standards but to DOUBLE your bench when your not a total noob (only a partial noob) even with muscle memory (my previous bench before getting serious was only 64lbs) and at 34 years old has surprised alot of people. Now does any of this make me an expert or my opinion worth listening to?? Well MAYBE. Maybe because i have tried MOST things ive read in the past with minimal results. Ive learnt what DOESNT work. Ive watched the same guys in the gym that were the same size as me when i started *(no idea how long they had been there before i started) and now im morw than a bit bigger then them-they look the same despite putting in the hard wrk just like i am. What i have noticed about these guys that train often and for their size-pretty hard, is at first i couldnt do the same volume of training per gym sesh as them as id be totally fried. Then 3 months later im matching them rep for rep and set for set even if my weights were lighter. Now my weights are heavier then theirs and im doing more reps per set and more sets per sesh. And i can see them looking at me wondering WTF im doing they are not. The only thing im doing diff this time to all the other times is EATING!! I dont count macros, i do worry about my protien intake and prob consume more then i really need. My total cals per day are def more then i need as ive gained about 4% bodyfat and now sit at about 20%. I dont eat alot of carbs and am no where near the grams per pound of bodyweight everyone says is needed. I do notice if i cut my carbs that my energy levels go through the floor. If i dont eat about 50grms of carbs before training i feel like **** by the time i finish. And if i do feel like **** then even a big hit of carbs after training only mildly revives me. If i get my carbs in before training and train hard then after training i need about 40-50grms to perk me back up. If i skip after training carbs i feel flat and tired- not like **** like if i skipped the before training carbs just tired. I have recently tried BCAA and creatine in my water during training-as i read that BCAA and creatine will be used for fuel during a hard workout. So to push out the volume of reps and sets my PT puts me thru i use em. Do they help much? Hard to say- the meal before training makes a TON more difference then anything i take during a workout. The only diff ive noticed is AFTER my wrkout. I dont feel as flat or tired and dont have the desire to eat anything that might be some kind of food on the way home from the gym. In the past ive tried every kind of fruit on any tree i found on the walk home as i was starving!! Now i can walk past peaches without having to climb the tree!! That HAS to mean something right people? For someone that is far from any kind of "REAL STATUS" that having alot of size brings, and despite being quite an experienced lifter- is still quite small, the VOLUME of weight i lift each time in the gym for my size is impressive spesh when you look at what i did 6 months ago. 6 months ago i did 1320 lbs in volume for a bench workout. (44lbs x 10 x 3) now its 5400lbs. (90 x 15 x 4) You big guys gotta admit for someone who started at next to nothing- in SIX MONTHS thats not bad, by any standard. So my two cents here- to any NOOBS - there is no "magic window". I eat before and after training because if i dont i feel like **** or at best really flat. I eat when i wake up because im so hungry from 8-9 hrs of not eating my body DEMANDS food. So i give it the best quality food i can- why fill the tank with crap, 30 grms of protein and about 40-50 grms of slow acting carbs like oats. That is also my fuel to train. As i got bigger but mostly as the volume of my training went up -i slowly upped the amout of carbs. And i will keep doing so. I also have a shake after training as im hungry so again- if your going to refuel put in the good stuff. And i have a shake before bed so my body has all the stuff it needs to repair the damage i did. And i have grown in size and strength as fast as my body can. I really dont think adding anymore food or supps or a "magic" compound besides steroids could possibly make my body grow,repair the damage or adapt to my training any faster. But in saying that as far as size gains go-ive had medical electric frequecy resistance tests done to measure the EXACT amount of muscle ive been building. And for the huge gains ive made in my training ive only gained a bit over 5 POUNDS of muscle in 6 months of serious training. When i say only - if i could gain 10 pounds in a year then im doing pretty bloody good!! So again to the noobs- dont expect to gain 20 pounds of muscle a year no matter how hard you train or what supps you take. Or when you take em. There is no magic supp or magic window to take em in my opinion. Maybe when you get to ANIMAL/BEAST size it changes, but i doubt it. So eat the right things-eat them often and as you grow up the size of each meal SLIGHTLY!! Your better off keeping them smaller and adding another meal. Its only when your huge can your body take up a really large portion all in one hit if you only ate a few hrs ago. Right guys? Once you fill the tank in the morning your only trying to top it off during the day. Correct me if im wrong but more small meals = better use of those cals and protein then trying to force alot of cals and aminos into a SMALL noobs frame? Anyways thats my experience- my opinion and my advice based on alot of trial, alot of error and only reccently finding something that has produced results above the normal. Hope my long winded story has added something to this debate...i doubt it but maybe it might help someone thats new to the game and has got lost in the forums so far. Peace out.

[drudixon]

Holy long post dude...

Science is, protein uptake is highest 4 hours post exercise. Synthesis 48 hours post that. What people miss is most protein take 4 hours to digest, so a post workout burger isn't going to be particularly anabolic. So, it goes to say, in general, meet your protein requirements all day long, and enough should be circulating post workout for muscle uptake. Sure, carbs pwo can help more uptake due to insulin response, but, again, if you have a balanced diet, even if you're fasted, your liver should have plenty of glycogen to spare for your brain, AND your muscles.

[Jtbny]

long ass post w/ no paragraphs...

[wesleysh21]

Where'd I go?!

The surgery was an absolute success, but you didn't make it. Sorry.