Starting Stength Hack Squats instead of Squats

[itsjustpip87]

I'm doing Starting Strength but am doing it at home because I already have the barbell and weights but can't afford gym membership right now.

I know that it's recommended that we don't tweak with the Starting Strength routine until we've mastered it, but I am unable to squat more than I press (as I don't have a squat rack at home).

Recently someone mentioned that I should try Hack Squats. This seems to have solved the problem, but are Hack Squats as good as Squats or will I be missing out?

[chazzy1864]

Hack squats are good, but more quad focused, where as the low bar PL style squats SS will have you do, is glute/ham dominant.


If nothign else, you can look into sumo deadlifts. Or maybe buy a trap bar for trap bar deadlifts, which is more akin to squats than deadlifts.

[_Jordo]

Hack squats are good, but more quad focused, where as the low bar PL style squats SS will have you do, is glute/ham dominant.


If nothign else, you can look into sumo deadlifts. Or maybe buy a trap bar for trap bar deadlifts, which is more akin to squats than deadlifts.

Trap bar deads sprang to mind, although their similarities with a conventional deadlift are a bit close for my liking in a program that focuses so heavily on squatting.
I'd say stick with the hack squat, but make getting a squat rack or gym membership a priority

[matjusm]

Another option would be to clean the bar and do a front squat. In fact you could perhaps alternate between front and hack squats.

[TheKansan]

I'm doing Starting Strength but am doing it at home because I already have the barbell and weights but can't afford gym membership right now.

I know that it's recommended that we don't tweak with the Starting Strength routine until we've mastered it, but I am unable to squat more than I press (as I don't have a squat rack at home).

Recently someone mentioned that I should try Hack Squats. This seems to have solved the problem, but are Hack Squats as good as Squats or will I be missing out?

You will be missing out. You won't be able to go as heavy, still they are better than nothing. I'm assuming that you don't have a squat rack or a bench at home?

[_Jordo]

I'm doing Starting Strength but am doing it at home because I already have the barbell and weights but can't afford gym membership right now.

I know that it's recommended that we don't tweak with the Starting Strength routine until we've mastered it, but I am unable to squat more than I press (as I don't have a squat rack at home).

Recently someone mentioned that I should try Hack Squats. This seems to have solved the problem, but are Hack Squats as good as Squats or will I be missing out?

You will be missing out. You won't be able to go as heavy, still they are better than nothing. I'm assuming that you don't have a squat rack or a bench at home?

See bold

[doctapeppa]

Back squats are the basis of the Starting Strength program. If you replace them with anything you are not doing SS. If you bothered to read it you wouldn't be asking this question here. No you cannot replace squats with anything.

[matjusm]

Back squats are the basis of the Starting Strength program. If you replace them with anything you are not doing SS. If you bothered to read it you wouldn't be asking this question here. No you cannot replace squats with anything.

True but a hack or a front squat isn't that horrible of a replacement for the back squat.

[SuicideGripMe]

Back squats are the basis of the Starting Strength program. If you replace them with anything you are not doing SS. If you bothered to read it you wouldn't be asking this question here. No you cannot replace squats with anything.

This x2.

True but a hack or a front squat isn't that horrible of a replacement for the back squat.

Yes it is. A hack squat is not a squat at all IMO. As far as front squats go, I doubt the OP has the power clean ability/technique to progress into the +200 range for front squats.

As Doc said, the basis of the program is squats. Would you do Super Squats/20 rep squat method with hack squats or front squats? No. If you dont do back squats, youre not doing the program correctly.

[Muckle_Ewe]

Back squats are the basis of the Starting Strength program. If you replace them with anything you are not doing SS. If you bothered to read it you wouldn't be asking this question here. No you cannot replace squats with anything.

Kinda parrot like response there, 'you are not doing SS' is the most overused phrase on this board.

What exactly is the problem? OP has chosen a program that is based on workout to workout progression focusing on important compounds. If he can add weight each workout than it should be fine. He'll most likely plateau before he would have if using back squats but he's using his limited equipment the best he can.

What would you advise he do?

[matjusm]

As Doc said, the basis of the program is squats. Would you do Super Squats/20 rep squat method with hack squats or front squats? No. If you dont do back squats, youre not doing the program correctly.

Correct, you are not doing the SS program correctly if you're not doing back squats but if you really have no other option whatsoever as is the case with the poster here, then hack/front squats are as good as you can get with replacement exercises.

As for the OP: try to look around your house/garden/garage or wherever it is you work out to see if you can construct a set up where you can place the barbell high enough for you to go and get under it. I'm sure you can do it with a bit of imagination.

[doctapeppa]

Kinda parrot like response there, 'you are not doing SS' is the most overused phrase on this board.

What exactly is the problem? OP has chosen a program that is based on workout to workout progression focusing on important compounds. If he can add weight each workout than it should be fine. He'll most likely plateau before he would have if using back squats but he's using his limited equipment the best he can.

What would you advise he do?

I advise he finds a different program. If you read the book it is very clear that you cannot substitute the squat.

[musicianman]

Just drop the damn bar if you fail. You're not squatting heavy yet, and you're not going to injure yourself unless you do something incredibly stupid.

[Tyciol]

I wonder why we just don't call the hack squat a 'rear deadlift' or something.

But it is more analagous to squatting due to the greater quad dominance.

[chazzy1864]

I advise he finds a different program. If you read the book it is very clear that you cannot substitute the squat.

ZoMG!!!11!1! You can't replace the squats! Why not? In actuality, it might be a far better exercise for a balanced workout program. Deadlifts are more ham dominant than quad dominant. Rip's squat style is definitely far more ham and glute dominant. The entire program is destined to leave the quads lagging. With a front or hack squat, this can definitely solve that issue right from the get go.

[musicianman]

ZoMG!!!11!1! You can't replace the squats! Why not? In actuality, it might be a far better exercise for a balanced workout program. Deadlifts are more ham dominant than quad dominant. Rip's squat style is definitely far more ham and glute dominant. The entire program is destined to leave the quads lagging. With a front or hack squat, this can definitely solve that issue right from the get go.

I agree. It also bothers me that there is no core work recommended, and that calves also end up lagging.

I think he set up the program the way he did and wrote what he did so that beginners wouldn't mess with it and say "ohh, I'll just do that and add in a few curls, drop the squats since I don't want to do those, and bench 3x a week."

[doctapeppa]

ZoMG!!!11!1! You can't replace the squats! Why not? In actuality, it might be a far better exercise for a balanced workout program. Deadlifts are more ham dominant than quad dominant. Rip's squat style is definitely far more ham and glute dominant. The entire program is destined to leave the quads lagging. With a front or hack squat, this can definitely solve that issue right from the get go.

Well, then you should go talk to Mr. Rippetoe about changing his program but you can't say "I'm doing Starting Strength" if you are replacing squats with hack squats.

[chazzy1864]

Well, then you should go talk to Mr. Rippetoe about changing his program but you can't say "I'm doing Starting Strength" if you are replacing squats with hack squats.

Nope, but he can say, 'i'm doing starting strength, but had to replace back squats with front squats."

Or

"I'm doing a starting strength-esque program. Due to lack of equipment, I can't do back squats, so I had ot make a substitute."

[Beachman]

Well, then you should go talk to Mr. Rippetoe about changing his program but you can't say "I'm doing Starting Strength" if you are replacing squats with hack squats.

What does this have to do with the OPs question? I'm pretty sure ole Rip isn't reading these boards looking for people that are doing SS and going to their house to see if they are doing it exactly as he said to.

OP- you could always build a squat rack out of 2X4s. But I think hack squats are a great strength builder.

Good luck!

[doctapeppa]

Nope, but he can say, 'i'm doing starting strength, but had to replace back squats with front squats."

Or

"I'm doing a starting strength-esque program. Due to lack of equipment, I can't do back squats, so I had ot make a substitute."

Brb.. I'm going to go play a baseball-esque game but do to lack of equipment I'll be using a bowling ball and some pins.

If you believe that hack squats are a fine replacement for squats on starting strength you either didn't read the book or are intentionally trying to be difficult

Here is a post about hack squats by Mark, himself:

http://startingstrength.com/resource...ead.php?t=7989

[chazzy1864]

Brb.. I'm going to go play a baseball-esque game but do to lack of equipment I'll be using a bowling ball and some pins.

If you believe that hack squats are a fine replacement for squats on starting strength you either didn't read the book or are intentionally trying to be difficult

Here is a post about hack squats by Mark, himself:

http://startingstrength.com/resource...ead.php?t=7989

They are an interesting old exercise that I have had no personal experience with performing correctly.

^ Yep, strong quote to put the kabosh on that.


Yeah, because starting strength is just like playing a game that requires two teams totaling about 60 players, coaching staff, and umpires.

I understand it "won't be starting strength" if he makes changes. Why is there no reason he can adjust the program to fit him, and still make progress with his strength, whether it be with hack squats or squats?

[matjusm]

Brb.. I'm going to go play a baseball-esque game but do to lack of equipment I'll be using a bowling ball and some pins.

If you believe that hack squats are a fine replacement for squats on starting strength you either didn't read the book or are intentionally trying to be difficult

Here is a post about hack squats by Mark, himself:

http://startingstrength.com/resource...ead.php?t=7989

I understand the whole "stick to the program" thing but in the case of the OP, it is physically impossible for him to do back squats. Are you saying he should stop working out altogether just because he can't do a specific variation of one of the exercises stipulated in the program?

If he were to do hack, front or perhaps even zercher squats then yes by definition he would not be doing the Starting Strength program. Nobody is arguing with that. But I really think some other squat variation is still an ok (though perhaps not ideal) substitute As it really isn't that different from the back squat. I mean we aren't comparing curls or dips to squats here, we're just comparing one kind of squat to another. A black hole won't suddenly appear and swallow up the world if this one guy do to lack of equipment does a different type of squat within the general framework of the Rippetoe program.

[chazzy1864]

I understand the whole "stick to the program" thing but in the case of the OP, it is physically impossible for him to do back squats. Are you saying he should stop working out altogether just because he can't do a specific variation of one of the exercises stipulated in the program?

If he were to do hack, front or perhaps even zercher squats then yes by definition he would not be doing the Starting Strength program. Nobody is arguing with that. But I really think some other squat variation is still an ok (though perhaps not ideal) substitute As it really isn't that different from the back squat. I mean we aren't comparing curls or dips to squats here, we're just comparing one kind of squat to another. A black hole won't suddenly appear and swallow up the world if this one guy do to lack of equipment does a different type of squat within the general framework of the Rippetoe program.

...but my momma said hack squats are the devil!






If I weren't on recharge, I'd rep that post matjusm.

[matjusm]

...but my momma said hack squats are the devil!

If I weren't on recharge, I'd rep that post matjusm.

Finally we found something we agree on. I think this calls for celebration.

[ZoranM]

[BigAppetite]

I tried this for two months but didn't had a proper bench for chest either so i went hack squats and DB bench press. Truthfully i found it very hard to progress as supposed, and don't think it's an ideal programme with these limitations. You definetly can do it but another programme, say All Pro's might be more fitting, as it's less focused on pure strenght.

You'll just stall a lot earlier than otherwise. But you can still make gains naturally and hack/front squats are probably the best substitutes

[OrbitalBurn]

Well, then you should go talk to Mr. Rippetoe about changing his program but you can't say "I'm doing Starting Strength" if you are replacing squats with hack squats.

Looks like Rip has had to answer this question before:
startingstrength.com/resources/forum/showthread.php?t=9385

JayNizzle: I have been on the ss program for about 5 months. The college I currently attend does not have any squat racks only the squat machine (I know it is a damn shame). I have email the president and told him it would be wise to add some squat racks into the gym. So far I have been doing front squats with my power cleans. I have heard hack squats might be useful. My friend who is also only the ss program recommended I do deadlifts three times a week. I would like to know what would you recommend?

Mark Rippetoe: I recommend that you change colleges.

[Zanderini]

this type of sh**t pissesme off. The SS nazi's need to stop sucking rips cock and making the book the bible. In all honestly another squating type exercise will yield good gains and is better than doing nothing at for a squat.All your gains dont magically go down the drain if you decide to use a different squat people need to realize you can change programs to your liking and still make gains.

[grumble1]

The squat is somewhat quad-dominant to start out with, and using a low-bar style squat just increases the load on the posterior chain to allow you to lift more weight and recruit more muscle. It doesn't magically make the quads lag. If you have done the program, you know that your quads develop very rapidly on it, so it's definitely not 'unbalanced' in that way.

In an emergency, do hack squats and use linear progression. You'll get bigger and stronger. You may however not get the results that SS is known for. Who knows? Try and see. Personally I don't like hack squats as an exercise due to their short ROM and awkward execution and definitely don't think they're an equal substitute for a back squat, but if they work for you that's great.

[Skwidward]

this type of sh**t pissesme off. The SS nazi's need to stop sucking rips cock.

Here here.......I mean, I'm sure he has a giant cock and all but have u seen him?

Best thread I've read in a while. Hacks FTW