Do fruits restore glycogen?

[Lezgetitdone]

Do fruits such as strawberrys and grapefruits restore muscle glycogen? I'm having them about 1-2 hours post workout and wondering if they will restore that.

thanks

[ebongo91]

yes they do.

[kusok]

Apparently (contrary to the deeply imbedded bro science) they do.


*reaches for a banana without guilt for the first time*

[lildave]

Apparently (contrary to the deeply imbedded bro science) they do.


*reaches for a banana without guilt for the first time*

Where did you hear that fruit restores muscle glycogen?

[seanb1979]

[kusok]

Where did you hear that fruit restores muscle glycogen?

A few places, most recently in yesterday's thread about this same topic:

http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showpo...1&postcount=62

[lildave]

A few places, most recently in yesterday's thread about this same topic:

http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showpo...1&postcount=62

Not to be an ass... but one person says it does and that makes them right even though 50 people who are as qualified and some even more qualified then this guy say it doesnt?

[raantok]

Anything that contains sugars/carbs will refill glycogen.

sugar/carbs -> glucose -> glycogen

[desslok]

I'm not really suire what you mean by that question. Are you asking if fruit directly restores muscle glycogen, bypassing your body's glycogen resynthesis processes?

[asto_86]

It was my understanding that fructose replaces liver glycogen, while the rest is to the muscle glycogen and too much is stored as fat. Keep in mind that fruit is not 100% fructose, so yes fruit can restore muscle glycogen.

also..
"All three dietary monosaccharides are transported into the liver by the GLUT 2 transporter [32]. Fructose and galactose are phosphorylated in the liver by fructokinase (Km= 0.5 mM) and galactokinase (Km = 0.8 mM). By contrast, glucose tends to pass through the liver (Km of hepatic glucokinase = 10 mM) and can be metabolised anywhere in the body. Uptake of fructose by the liver is not regulated by insulin." -wiki

[kusok]

Not to be an ass... but one person says it does and that makes them right even though 50 people who are as qualified and some even more qualified then this guy say it doesnt?

You should probably google the credentials of that guy I quoted, as well as what people say about him, scientists and athletes alike.

[asto_86]

A few places, most recently in yesterday's thread about this same topic:

http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showpo...1&postcount=62

ahh, i missed this post. Alan is right on and said what I meant in a more clear manner. That is why he is a writer, and why I post on here.. lol

[rhizome]

Not to be an ass... but one person says it does and that makes them right even though 50 people who are as qualified and some even more qualified then this guy say it doesnt?

Hey moron. Educate yourself before I neg the **** out of you.

READ this.

Fruit is primarily a mix of glucose and fructose. The glucose from fruit or starch hydrolysis will more readily replenish muscle glycogen and the fructose will more readily replenish liver glycogen but that generalization does not to imply exclusivity.

Fructose can replenish muscle glycogen, it's just not great at doing so even at a large intake. It is metabolized in the liver first, but up to 30-50% can appear in systemic circulation as glucose while the rest is stored as liver glycogen among other fates.
http://jap.physiology.org/cgi/content/full/81/4/1495

[lildave]

You should probably google the credentials of that guy I quoted, as well as what people say about him, scientists and athletes alike.

If you wanna base everything on what one person says then for my point I'm gonna use what John Berardi says. He says minimize fruit especially after a workout. I'm not saying its not possible to use fruit to replenish glycogen. Its just really not ideal at all.
For me personally when I finish training there is ONE thing on my mind and that is feeding my muscles. The liver stores shouldnt even be that depleted after your typical training session since the primary fuel source during weight training is the muscle glycogen... not the liver.. lets say you use fruit to replenish muscle stores. You will have to take in a ton of fruit. What happens when your liver stores are full. It starts storing the extra. I dont know about you but when I'm trying to put on muscle I try to minimize fat storage. I can guarantee that if you take two people... they train exactly the same and eat the same foods at all times EXCEPT after training. One eats a bunch of fruit with some protein and the other has protein with dextrose and maltodextrin.. The one that eats fruit will most likely put on less muscle and be putting on more fat then the person who feeds the muscles first...

Hey moron. Educate yourself before I neg the **** out of you.

READ this.

NO DONT NEG ME!! PLEASE DONT!
Here's a tip douchebag. Dont call someone a moron and then threaten to "neg the ****" out of them (what the **** does that even mean?) and then think they will actually read anything that you say after that.

edit..
so I actually read what you posted and even your quote says that its not ideal.. why the hell would you do something if their are better and cheaper ways of accomplishing it..

[EmperorRyker]

Believe it or not, that's not how most people think. We read what alan has to say, then we read his explanation, then we see if his explanation makes sense, and then we actually GO AND LOOK UP THE F*CKING RESEARCH, and then we try it in our own daily lives. This keeps us far removed from the usual "my guru's dick is bigger than your guru's dick" mentality that you seem to be entrenched in right now. I recommend you do the same.

Where do you get the feeling it's not how most people think? Maybe the thinking you gave applies to YOU and I fully agree that's how it's supposed to be done, but all I see here is either "bros" or avid "anti-bros", which I find equally as annoying, because they parrot Alan Aragon, Lyle McDonald just as bad as "bros" do T-nation and other crap, without really thinking about why things are supposed to be as they say they are. Now, mind you, I again agree that parroting Alan or Lyle might lead one more successfully to the "truth", but they, as well, CAN be wrong (blasphemy, I know).

The way you described, however, is the one I think all of us should do, but then again, perhaps not everyone has the time or knowledge to indulge into research. And then you have a situation where one is either supposed to be quiet for his lack of knowledge or risk saying something and merely uncritically parroting others.

[kusok]

If you wanna base everything on what one person says then for my point I'm gonna use what John Berardi says. He says minimize fruit especially after a workout. I'm not saying its not possible to use fruit to replenish glycogen. Its just really not ideal at all.
For me personally when I finish training there is ONE thing on my mind and that is feeding my muscles. The liver stores shouldnt even be that depleted after your typical training session since the primary fuel source during weight training is the muscle glycogen... not the liver.. lets say you use fruit to replenish muscle stores. You will have to take in a ton of fruit. What happens when your liver stores are full. It starts storing the extra. I dont know about you but when I'm trying to put on muscle I try to minimize fat storage. I can guarantee that if you take two people... they train exactly the same and eat the same foods at all times EXCEPT after training. One eats a bunch of fruit with some protein and the other has protein with dextrose and maltodextrin.. The one that eats fruit will most likely put on less muscle and be putting on more fat then the person who feeds the muscles first...

YOU can "guarantee" it? Based on what? Can you link me to such research please?
Seems like you may be believing a bro science myth... idk...


By the way bro, you asked a question, I answered. I didn't say I base my opinion off one man's word. I just answered your question.

[Deviance5]

I think the answer is: yes it can but there are better choices if glycogen replen is the only objective

[Jeclavad]

As already stated:
most fruits: 1/2 glucose, 1/2 fructose
Glucose resplendishes muscle glycogen
Fructose can but is not very efficient at doing it.

So yes, fruits resplendish muscle glycogen and liver glycogen (= perfect food, don't know why people are afraid of them)

[mminguela]

I havent Lol'd that much in a while....

[seanb1979]

I havent Lol'd that much in a while....

i was starting to think richard wouldn't get any recognition, lol

[Lezgetitdone]

Didn't mean to start a fued here.

So what foods primarily would contain glucose that you guys like using?

Does whole wheat bread or white bread contain mainly glucose, or oatmeal?

Thanks for the replies!

And what's the whole deal with liver glycogen, does the liver use it as it's energy source? And it get's it primarily from fructose sources?

[kusok]

Since fruit does replenish muscle glycogen I have a question: Why nobody asks instead "Can grains restore liver glycogen?"

...because doesn't your liver glycogen drop when you lift weights? And isn't it important to replenish that? Why only muscle glycogen??? Does liver not play an important role in recovery?

[IntraVol]

It was my understanding that fructose replaces liver glycogen, while the rest is to the muscle glycogen and too much is stored as fat. Keep in mind that fruit is not 100% fructose, so yes fruit can restore muscle glycogen.

also..
"All three dietary monosaccharides are transported into the liver by the GLUT 2 transporter [32]. Fructose and galactose are phosphorylated in the liver by fructokinase (Km= 0.5 mM) and galactokinase (Km = 0.8 mM). By contrast, glucose tends to pass through the liver (Km of hepatic glucokinase = 10 mM) and can be metabolised anywhere in the body. Uptake of fructose by the liver is not regulated by insulin." -wiki

You are correct my friend.

Enjoy.

[RealMenDeadLift]

Fructose can replenish muscle glycogen, just not to the extent of glucose.

Fruit contains both glucose and fructose.

Therefore fruit can replenish muscle glycogen.

[in10city]

Since fruit does replenish muscle glycogen I have a question: Why nobody asks instead "Can grains restore liver glycogen?"

...because doesn't your liver glycogen drop when you lift weights? And isn't it important to replenish that? Why only muscle glycogen??? Does liver not play an important role in recovery?

Yes glucose from starch hydrolysis can be taken up by the liver and used for glycogen synthesis. The Michaelis constant for liver glucokinase is high [5-10 mM] compared to other hexokinases [0.02-0.13 mM] which means its activity for phosphorylating and sequestering glucose in the liver is most active when glucose becomes elevated after a meal. The majority of glucose is still disposed of peripherally. There is also an indirect pathway to hepatic glycogen synthesis termed as the 'glucose paradox' fueled by gluconeogenic precursors. So people who think that the assload of dextrose they take is only going to replenish muscle glycogen are mistaken too.

And of course liver glycogen is reduced even during resistance training given it's intense enough. On top of its job of blood glucose regulation, hepatic glucose output during exercise behaves like a feed-forward controlled system, as opposed to a feedback controlled system, under the influence of neuroendocrine and other mechanisms. So once you start going at it, the glycogenolysis and gluconeogenesis wheels are set in motion.

[lildave]

There are plenty of times that I disagree with lyle and alan. Sometimes they disagree with each other. They're just tools to help you learn.



LOL, that's not just a situation, that's reality. If we're in here discussing the biochemical pathways that fructose and glucose take within the body, and your only response is "yeah well John Berardi says xxxx," you should be learning instead of talking. It isn't always a game of who can get heir voice to be heard too.

It's ridiculous that we're in here discussing simple and basic facts (fruit CONTAINS GLUCOSE, and that glucose will go to replenishing muscle glycogen) and the response we're getting is "yeah well just because alan says it doesn't mean it's true. john berardi says xxxx"

Then when we even get the benefit of a guy doing the work and finding research to post on the subject, we still get "yeah but john berardi says xxxx." Should be telling about who's really hung up on the guru wars around here.

The reason I brought up John Berardi is cuz you said "look up Alan's credentials".. Well ONE of the "GURUS" that I get my information from has far better credentials then Alan. Berardi actually has the credentials to do full studies that Alan would use as references in his articles. Also after doing some research on this Alan guy I came across an article he did on pwo nutrition and he says himself the same thing that Berardi says as far as pwo nutrition goes but he gives a second option of using fruit.
We can argue about this forever. You arent gonna change my mind since I have actually done both and I have seen that I got better results without the fruit.

[On Fire]

Just making friends one thread at a time eh Dave?

[alan aragon]

The reason I brought up John Berardi is cuz you said "look up Alan's credentials".. Well ONE of the "GURUS" that I get my information from has far better credentials then Alan. [...] You arent gonna change my mind since I have actually done both and I have seen that I got better results without the fruit.

An appeal to paper credentials is one of the weakest appeals you can make. Oh wait, there's a weaker argument than that - an appeal to personal testimony. Looks like you covered that one too. Good job, Dave man.

[dejan_85]

The reason I brought up John Berardi is cuz you said "look up Alan's credentials".. Well ONE of the "GURUS" that I get my information from has far better credentials then Alan. Berardi actually has the credentials to do full studies that Alan would use as references in his articles. Also after doing some research on this Alan guy I came across an article he did on pwo nutrition and he says himself the same thing that Berardi says as far as pwo nutrition goes but he gives a second option of using fruit.
We can argue about this forever. You arent gonna change my mind since I have actually done both and I have seen that I got better results without the fruit.

Noone is trying to change your mind, they are trying to educate you about science and researched facts. I am not sure why you are so resistant to admit where you are wrong. I also quite doubt it that you actually took the time to try both methods, measuring and charting your progress and than coming up with a better way.

[freak111]

What do you take post-workout?

Yes glucose from starch hydrolysis can be taken up by the liver and used for glycogen synthesis. The Michaelis constant for liver glucokinase is high [5-10 mM] compared to other hexokinases [0.02-0.13 mM] which means its activity for phosphorylating and sequestering glucose in the liver is most active when glucose becomes elevated after a meal. The majority of glucose is still disposed of peripherally. There is also an indirect pathway to hepatic glycogen synthesis termed as the 'glucose paradox' fueled by gluconeogenic precursors. So people who think that the assload of dextrose they take is only going to replenish muscle glycogen are mistaken too.

And of course liver glycogen is reduced even during resistance training given it's intense enough. On top of its job of blood glucose regulation, hepatic glucose output during exercise behaves like a feed-forward controlled system, as opposed to a feedback controlled system, under the influence of neuroendocrine and other mechanisms. So once you start going at it, the glycogenolysis and gluconeogenesis wheels are set in motion.