Beginners shouldn't squat

[5431]

Just my opinion, but in today's sedentary society people are just way too out of shape and inflexible to do squats properly. Telling someone who sat for 10 hours a day for 5 years to go squat atg is just asking for trouble. Since people are inflexible, they will have horrendous form trying to achieve full depth and could hurt their back. And they can have postural problems they are unaware of, etc. I say this because i did rippetoes when i started out and did deep squats with some phucked up form, although still better than most people's in the gym, and i think i hurt my back this way; no matter what I did I couldn't squat properly, and when I looked for answers of course rippetoe's holy book tells you keep squatting and your form will magically improve. i think a better way for a beginner to start would be with some assistant exercises that would fix tight hip flexors, bad posture, chest inflexibility, etc. Of course if you are already athletic and active then this wouldn't apply to you.

[chazzy1864]

How about follow the mantra, squat as deeply as your flexibility will safely allow?

[anonymous]

How are they gonna get better if they dont try?

[44jt44]

I saw a guy at my gym yesterday squatting in jeans. Levis straight leg. Dropping about six inches with 225lbs on the bar. Entertainment!

[jmal2000]

when i was overweight it was very hard to squat, i did body squats for a long time and then i was finally able to do the bar, its not much but i went from barely doing the bar to 135 (i know its weak)

[Rain50]

Obviously someone who has never squatted or done similar exercises isn't going to be able to go down all the way. They'll need to start with lighter weight and just go down as far as their body allows them(without injury) until their body is use to going down deeper and deeper until they can achieve great form. As long as they have someone knowledgeable with squats helping them do it, there's no reason they should need to risk injury just because they've never done it before.
However, being sore the next day is probably gonna happen.

[anonymous]

I saw a guy at my gym yesterday squatting in jeans. Levis straight leg. Dropping about six inches with 225lbs on the bar. Entertainment!

I don't know why people would go to the gym in jeans. **** if I'm gonna try squats in my slim fit jeans.

[KyleAaron]

Just my opinion, but in today's sedentary society people are just way too out of shape and inflexible to do squats properly.

That's exactly why they should squat. There's no point doing something that's easy in the gym, that's the same as doing nothing. They should squat because they will find it difficult. This will effect a change in their physiques, make them stronger and fitter.

Telling someone who sat for 10 hours a day for 5 years to go squat atg is just asking for trouble. Since people are inflexible, they will have horrendous form trying to achieve full depth and could hurt their back.

This is why when someone squats, we watch their form. They should squat not arse-to-ground or any other arbitrary distance, but simply to the level where they can keep a braced back. Wherever their lower back rounds, that's the "bottom of the squat" for them. As the person goes through a programme of physical training, they'll become stronger and more flexible, and this point will drop, their range of motion will increase.

Of course the fullest benefit of an exercise is got from the fullest possible range of motion. However, that does not mean that a shorter range has no benefit. People's bodies change because they stress them. What is a stress? When you ask your body to do more than it was doing before. So, all we need to know is, is it more than they were doing before? If yes, then their bodies will adapt.

I say this because i did rippetoes when i started out and did deep squats with some phucked up form, although still better than most people's in the gym, and i think i hurt my back this way

So the issue is not with squats as such, but simply that you did them poorly. I think that with coaching, you would have done them better, and would have been much less likely to injure yourself.

If you went into squats without asking anyone to show you things in person and watch your form, I suspect that you probably put quite a lot of weight ("quite a lot" for you at that stage, that is) on the bar quite quickly, too. Poor form + heavy weights = likely injury. This is not a new revelation in coaching, I'm sorry to say.

It's like saying, "Tonight in the kitchen I burned my hand and cut my finger, people who've never cooked before shouldn't try, it's dangerous." Cooking can be dangerous, yes - there are sharp knives, heavy metal objects, boiling water and open flame. But that doesn't mean you can't start simple and careful and improve your skills from there. If you just jump in letting your ego decide how you do things then of course you'll hurt yourself.

Any exercise when performed poorly has a greater risk of causing injuries, and greater still when performed poorly with heavy weights. This does not mean the exercise itself is bad, it means that exercises should be performed properly.

Begin with just your bodyweight and no bar, squat as deeply as you can safely and without pain. When you can do 20 bodyweight squats with good form you are probably ready to put a bar on your back, again going as deeply as you can safely and without pain. The depth you can go will increase in time as you improve your strength and flexibility.

when i was overweight it was very hard to squat, i did body squats for a long time and then i was finally able to do the bar, its not much but i went from barely doing the bar to 135 (i know its weak)

You did more than you did before. You got stronger. Well done, keep going.

[GruntFunk]

when i was overweight it was very hard to squat, i did body squats for a long time and then i was finally able to do the bar, its not much but i went from barely doing the bar to 135 (i know its weak)

Don't worry. I do partials even though I have a bad left knee. Gotta start somewhere!

[cestrada]

Beginners should start on the smith machine using good form and light weight... even if light weight is just the bar people should still squat.

Plenty of those levis cats at my gym too... what a joke!

[dizzay20]

if u cant squat to parallel atleast then u dont deserve to live.

[MLombardo]

yeah I agree, i see younger kids doing pretty ugly squats with absurd weight. I think dumbells are a good way to start for at least a few months.. before you go to the squats with a straight bar. What i see makes my back hurt, but then again... I did the same thing when i first started lifting, It took time for me to perfect my form.

[smitsky]

If at all possible, beginners should be taught to Squat properly.

[chazzy1864]

If at all possible, beginners should be taught to Squat properly.

^ That.

[smitsky]

^ That.

Alas, it is very often too much to ask that there be a good teacher nearby

[imasavage]

Most people can't squat "ATG" athletic or not.

[smitsky]

For those interested, here is a good article on learning to Squat from the Stickies in the Powerlifting section:

Article (link here)

[44jt44]

Beginners should start on the smith machine using good form and light weight... even if light weight is just the bar people should still squat.

Plenty of those levis cats at my gym too... what a joke!

This. Smith machine is good for starting out with squats.

[GuyJin]

OP,

Squatting, while not entirely a "natural" movement for some, should, IMHO, be taught at the beginning of everyone's training programme. And they should be taught to work on form first and foremost, and then add weight whenever possible. Granted, not all of us can squat ATG comfortably (me being one) but with practice and time, it should become much easier to get the form right, the form that will give results. Not necessarily the weight, but the form. Whether it's ATG or just below parallel, as long as results are forthcoming, then do it.

Squatting on a Smith isn't bad, but it, IMHO, is not for a beginner, as someone posted. The machine is doing all the balancing for you, and once you go to a free bar, your mechanics will not be the same, and not only will you have to drop the weight (in some cases, considerably) but there is also the possibility that since you weren't taught free-bar form, an injury could result. Not saying it would happen, but there is that possibility.

As Kyle Aaron wrote, you get to be good at doing something by doing it. And doing it properly. Smitsky wrote the same thing, and at the risk of parroting them, I have to agree.

The one codicil I'd add is that if after all the training on form and flexibility and foot positioning and whatnot has not paid off in a decent squatting movement, then go to another exercise i.e. leg presses, lunges, front squats, hip-belt squats, et. al. No one is saying that you MUST squat; what everyone seems to be saying is that if you squat, get your form straight first. JMO...

[Garyxxx]

OP - Id like to see research on your theory... Perhaps you meant beginners should not squat heavy weight.

Squatting is really one of the only legitment leg exercises, if you are not doing squats, deadlifts or RDL's, lunges or explosive leg movements, you really are not working your legs.

The best way to get someone started working their legs, do this: Give them a broom stick, have them hold it over their head and do it 15-20 times for sets. This will work on muscle balance, flexibility and core strength.. Eventually they can move to the bar while developing perfect form, its imposible to do an overhead squat without perfect form.

After they do this, work into overhead lunges, single leg squats and RDL's. Check out Michael Boyle's study with the boston bruins on single leg squats.

[59QUiCE]

i plan to put a rest to all non-squat talk. i cant prove anything as of yet but in 3 months time i will post a squat video

[Thuirwyne]

OP - Id like to see research on your theory... Perhaps you meant beginners should not squat heavy weight.

Squatting is really one of the only legitment leg exercises, if you are not doing squats, deadlifts or RDL's, lunges or explosive leg movements, you really are not working your legs.

The best way to get someone started working their legs, do this: Give them a broom stick, have them hold it over their head and do it 15-20 times for sets. This will work on muscle balance, flexibility and core strength.. Eventually they can move to the bar while developing perfect form, its imposible to do an overhead squat without perfect form.

After they do this, work into overhead lunges, single leg squats and RDL's. Check out Michael Boyle's study with the boston bruins on single leg squats.

This is great advice. The overhead squat test is something everyone should do before throwing a bunch of weight on a bar and teetering around like a crazy person.

[DanielBeauchamp]

OP - Id like to see research on your theory... Perhaps you meant beginners should not squat heavy weight.

Squatting is really one of the only legitment leg exercises, if you are not doing squats, deadlifts or RDL's, lunges or explosive leg movements, you really are not working your legs.

The best way to get someone started working their legs, do this: Give them a broom stick, have them hold it over their head and do it 15-20 times for sets. This will work on muscle balance, flexibility and core strength.. Eventually they can move to the bar while developing perfect form, its imposible to do an overhead squat without perfect form.

After they do this, work into overhead lunges, single leg squats and RDL's. Check out Michael Boyle's study with the boston bruins on single leg squats.

This ^ x2

[Bobooshka]

Just my opinion, but in today's sedentary society people are just way too out of shape and inflexible to do squats properly. Telling someone who sat for 10 hours a day for 5 years to go squat atg is just asking for trouble. Since people are inflexible, they will have horrendous form trying to achieve full depth and could hurt their back. And they can have postural problems they are unaware of, etc. I say this because i did rippetoes when i started out and did deep squats with some phucked up form, although still better than most people's in the gym, and i think i hurt my back this way; no matter what I did I couldn't squat properly, and when I looked for answers of course rippetoe's holy book tells you keep squatting and your form will magically improve. i think a better way for a beginner to start would be with some assistant exercises that would fix tight hip flexors, bad posture, chest inflexibility, etc. Of course if you are already athletic and active then this wouldn't apply to you.

Your an idiot.

[Ironlife]

OP,

Squatting, while not entirely a "natural" movement for some, should, IMHO, be taught at the beginning of everyone's training programme. And they should be taught to work on form first and foremost, and then add weight whenever possible. Granted, not all of us can squat ATG comfortably (me being one) but with practice and time, it should become much easier to get the form right, the form that will give results. Not necessarily the weight, but the form. Whether it's ATG or just below parallel, as long as results are forthcoming, then do it.

Squatting on a Smith isn't bad, but it, IMHO, is not for a beginner, as someone posted. The machine is doing all the balancing for you, and once you go to a free bar, your mechanics will not be the same, and not only will you have to drop the weight (in some cases, considerably) but there is also the possibility that since you weren't taught free-bar form, an injury could result. Not saying it would happen, but there is that possibility.

As Kyle Aaron wrote, you get to be good at doing something by doing it. And doing it properly. Smitsky wrote the same thing, and at the risk of parroting them, I have to agree.

The one codicil I'd add is that if after all the training on form and flexibility and foot positioning and whatnot has not paid off in a decent squatting movement, then go to another exercise i.e. leg presses, lunges, front squats, hip-belt squats, et. al. No one is saying that you MUST squat; what everyone seems to be saying is that if you squat, get your form straight first. JMO...

This^^

First off to OP:

Alot of men, work 8-10 hr days and still force themselves to go to the gym and squat heavy, are you implying that just because someone doesnt have the flexibility to squat deep they shouldnt be squatting at all?
Imagine if everyone on earth had that mindset, we wouldnt go to the gym in the future because some exericses are too hard to do due to our flexibility.. we would all become a fat and lazy society..

Im not having a go at you, i just think there are better avenues to get people squatting safely than putting it in the too hard basket./

[smitsky]

...
i think a better way for a beginner to start would be with some assistant exercises that would fix tight hip flexors, bad posture, chest inflexibility, etc.
...

Mobility Drills / Dynamic Stretching Pre Workout to warm up and loosen up tight hip flexors (and other key areas).

Arch your back / stay tight throughout the lift.
Take a deep breath and stick your chest out.
...

[Inagren]

Your an idiot.

Says the guy that uses the wrong you're.

Just repeating everyone, but beginners SHOULD squat; just not with heavy weights.

[Tyciol]

Maybe beginners shouldn't BACK squat, and start with a front squat with something easy to hold since it's a little easier to maintain your posture with a front squat?

[ironwill2008]

So, OP's position is that since he started squatting "with some phucked up form," and then, " i think i hurt my back this way," he's stating that all beginners should avoid Squats.

Actually what all beginners should avoid is OP's "advice."

If you're a noob, and want to learn how to Squat, either find someone at your gym to teach you proper form, or use any of the many on-line resources to learn the exercise properly. Start out with nothing more than the bar, and only add as much weight as you can lift with good form. If your form is in question, make a vid and post it in this forum for critique. You only get good at something by doing the 'something,' not by doing something else.

Speaking of online resources, here's a very good one:
http://www.youtube.com/results?searc...=squat+rx&aq=f

This is an entire series of vids that will solve anyone's Squat form problems.

[DJAuto]

If you're a noob, and want to learn how to Squat, either find someone at your gym to teach you proper form, or use any of the many on-line resources to learn the exercise properly. Start out with nothing more than the bar, and only add as much weight as you can lift with good form. If your form is in question, make a vid and post it in this forum for critique. You only get good at something by doing the 'something,' not by doing something else.

Speaking of online resources, here's a very good one:
http://www.youtube.com/results?searc...=squat+rx&aq=f

This is an entire series of vids that will solve anyone's Squat form problems.

^^^

The earlier you learn, the better off you will be in the long run.