Hello, my name is Ray. I will be 60 on the 26 of next month.
I am new to this site and all that is represents. I have never really worked out but I have been told by my doctor that I must change my lifestyle if I want to see very many more years.
I have been reading on here for the past week or so and I am very confused as where to start. My doc referred me to this site for help as far as tips on working out and how to go about choosing a healthy diet not to mention a workout routine that I will be able to do.
I have very little knowledge about such things but I am a quick study so I am open to all suggestions.
I am or will be 60 soon but I do not intend to let my age hold me back. I have seen pictures of seniors on here that look very healthy and I know they did not come by that overnight and I am willing to put the time and work in to do what it takes to make a change in my life.
I will how ever need all the guidance that you fine people are willing to give me on diet and workout routines and what I can expect.
Thank you very much for taking the time to read this.
Ray
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Thread: New member here.
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07-28-2013, 11:13 PM #1
New member here.
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07-28-2013, 11:20 PM #2
Welcome Ray. You've come to the right place for advice and guidance. The site has a ton of articles/blogs and general tips, as well as very insightful members.
As you said, don't expect results overnight. It takes time. Don't overdo it at first. Make sure you establish a routine that is manageable, and just be persistent and let time take care of things.
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07-29-2013, 05:03 AM #3
Here are your best places to start:
Beginner bodybuilding program:
*Routine: http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=4195843
If you don't know how to perform any of the exercises in this program, look them up here to learn how to do them correctly:
http://exrx.net/Lists/Directory.html
No requirement for supplements at your level; learn how to eat first. This thread will explain all the steps to figure your baseline of required protein, fat, carbs, and calories:
*Emma-Leigh's calorie/macro thread: http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showth...hp?t=121703981
Buy an inexpensive digital food scale (~$30 at any big-box discount store), weigh your portions, and track them here: http://fitday.comNo brain, no gain.
"The fitness and nutrition world is a breeding ground for obsessive-compulsive behavior. The irony is that many of the things people worry about have no impact on results either way, and therefore aren't worth an ounce of concern."--Alan Aragon
Where the mind goes, the body follows.
Ironwill Gym:
https://forum.bodybuilding.com/showpost.php?p=629719403&postcount=3388
Ironwill2008 Journal:
https://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=157459343&p=1145168733
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07-29-2013, 02:30 PM #4
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07-29-2013, 02:33 PM #5
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07-29-2013, 02:47 PM #6
I tried to say thank you for your detailed responce but it did not post when I clicked post so sorry if it shows up twice here or somewhere else.
Anyways, thank you very much for the links you provided. I have read over some of it but I had to take a break because it got very confusing, especially in the diet link. I'm lost there for sure but I will read and re-read it until I get it or ask for help.
As for the exercises, I thought I knew how to do certain things but it seems I have no idea on how to exercise with proper form.
Again, thanks for the help and I hope I can pick your brain as well as others when needed.
By the way I had to remove the links you gave or the system would not let me post a responce to your post.
Ray
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07-29-2013, 02:49 PM #7
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07-29-2013, 02:54 PM #8
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07-29-2013, 03:00 PM #9
I agree that there's a lot of information in the 'nutrition' link, but that's what makes it so valuable; it's a "one-stop-shop" for figuring out all your nutrition requirements. Plus, there's no bs or broscience in there at all; it's just the facts, all supported by real science.
As for the exercises, I thought I knew how to do certain things but it seems I have no idea on how to exercise with proper form.
This sport is so cool that way; you can make good progress just by skimming the surface and picking up the bare basics. Or, if you so desire, you can dig miles deep, and never really reach the bottom. I for one, have found that the more I learn, the more I realize I don't know.
Again, thanks for the help and I hope I can pick your brain as well as others when needed.
No brain, no gain.
"The fitness and nutrition world is a breeding ground for obsessive-compulsive behavior. The irony is that many of the things people worry about have no impact on results either way, and therefore aren't worth an ounce of concern."--Alan Aragon
Where the mind goes, the body follows.
Ironwill Gym:
https://forum.bodybuilding.com/showpost.php?p=629719403&postcount=3388
Ironwill2008 Journal:
https://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=157459343&p=1145168733
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07-29-2013, 03:06 PM #10
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07-29-2013, 10:03 PM #11
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07-29-2013, 10:22 PM #12
I like the idea of things backed up by proven methods and not just what someone says. I'm going out on a limb here and assuming that bro-science is the opposite of that or I guess the = to opinion based upon one person's experience.
As for learning new things I am used to that from my line of work or at least what used to be my line of work. The one thing I learned early on my job is stay away from the person that says they know everything. That person will always bring trouble and lead you in the wrong direction.
I have always tried to be my on advocate when possible to a certain point. At that point I stop talking and start listening in hope of learning from the people that have been there done that.
I sure hope that there are at least some people here that can and will give solid advice when needed. I have high hopes with the site as it came highly recommended by my doctor and that is something he rarely does so that gives me piece of mind when it comes to reading and then asking questions based on what I have read. My doctor is not easily impressed so you people must be really good at what you do.
One thing you will find with me is I will do my homework before I ask anyone to give me answers. I may not come up with the right answers but I will at least have (or I hope so at least) an idea on the subject before asking about it.
Again, thanks for the very informative links you provided above. I have already learned things.
I will continue to read before I come back with any questions.
Ray
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07-29-2013, 10:27 PM #13
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07-30-2013, 06:42 AM #14
- Join Date: Oct 2010
- Location: Harrison Township, Michigan, United States
- Age: 83
- Posts: 124
- Rep Power: 520
What I did
Just my story of someone who started at age 68.
I was also confused so I just jumped in with an exercise routine that I gleaned from various sites and books. The below suggestion of a beginners program sounds good.
The first thing that I learned was to set goals. Mine was to lose about 30 pounds, get stronger and to look halfway toned.
I though about bulking but found it to be almost impossible at my age. The good news is that I have actually gained a small increase in some muscle measurements/growth and an amazing gain in strength, balance and endurance.
The second thing I learned is that nutrition is critical to my program. I stopped taking all of these touted supps and maintain a regime of healthy balanced foods which includes protein power, fish oil, vitamin d, smoothies, etc.
The third thing that I do regarding routines is;
Working out three days a week using weights. I also add resistance bands to change up routines. Sit ups, pushups, etc.
I also do Yoga at various time for balance. I also do some Yoga routines prior to working out for stretching. My Yoga is not what you usually see performed. It is DDP Yoga (Google it)..it good for strength training, cardio, etc.
I also do walking/biking. Done more for enjoyment than cardio. Living on a lake, I just bought a Kayak and will be working this in also.
The fourth thing is mental attitude.
The mental rewards of getting fit is unexplainable.
You must commit to this new life style and put it first. If I miss a day of training I make up for it immediately rather that just pass it off.
Anyway this works for me..
When I started I was overweight, beat up from alcohol, weak from inactivity, mentally depressed from aging with nothing to look forward to.
Today I weigh in at 169lbs, probably as strong as I was twenty years ago, fitter that many men half my age, surely at the top of my game in my life cycle of 70s.
I will be 73 in November, take no medications, no smoking, no alcohol, sexually active. I live one day at a time, this alone makes aging stand still. I work out to feel good today...don't know what may happen tomorrow.
Good has given me a new life......BUT I have to work for it.
You are very lucky to be making this choice.
Hope I didn't bore the thread.
Good luck, Jim B
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07-30-2013, 07:35 AM #15
That's a fair definition of the term.
One interesting thing about broscience is that it's not that most bro-related tenets don't work--many actually do. It's just that the majority of the stuff considered to be broscience just isn't necessary. And that's what often leads noobs astray--getting bogged-down in protocols and details that, in the big picture, contribule nothing but a bigger PITA as far as trying to train and eat well-enough to make consistent progress.
Surprisingly, once you get thorugh the basics, you'll come to realize that the nutrition part of bodybuilding is actually pretty easy to nail down; barring some particular medical issue, the same "rules" apply to everyone equally. Get adequate protein and fat, and enough carbs to provide you the energy you need to train and function all day IRL, and with a slant towards also getting enough micronutrients, and you're good to go. It's really as simple as that despite what some people will try to tell you.
And it shouldn't come as any surprise that those who would try to make all this out to be so complicted and mystical are the people who will also be trying to get their hands in your pocket. Online "Build Muscle Fast," and "Get Six Pack Abs in Three days!" programs for sale abound. As do the hollow promises of fast muscle gain/quick fat loss from many supplement companies.
If it sounds too good to be true, or it touts a shortcut around hard work and discipline, it's bogus.
Training, at least for a beginner, is also a fairly simple endeavor as far as finding a routine/program that's optimal and apprropriate. There are several well-laid-out beginner programs available. And there's a difference between a routine and a program. The former is just a schedule; the latter is a comprehensive plan that includes all the details, and all of them being already thought-out and accounted for.
And it's these 'details' that make training more difficult to sort out once the trainee gets past beginner level, and reaches a point where his 'noob' gains (relatively easily-made progress in mass/strength) begin to plateau. Exercise choice, set/rep plans, progression schemes, rest-day scheduling, deloading, etc., etc., all become much more significant if the trainee is to continue to move forward. At this 'intermediate' level, it's still a good idea to simply choose a pre-written program put together by a more-knowledgable person, and then follow it fairly closely. It's during the next several months at this level that the trainee will start to see some of the fog lift, and will begin to realize what specifically works well for him and what doesn't. At this point, routine customization will start to make sense.
From this time forward, it will be all about figuring out ways around plateaus and stall points, while at the same time adjusting training to address weak areas, which will have become apparent by now. Tht's when the real experimenting comes into play as well as the value of what the trainee has been posting in his training log. The real journey has begun.
I sure hope that there are at least some people here that can and will give solid advice when needed.No brain, no gain.
"The fitness and nutrition world is a breeding ground for obsessive-compulsive behavior. The irony is that many of the things people worry about have no impact on results either way, and therefore aren't worth an ounce of concern."--Alan Aragon
Where the mind goes, the body follows.
Ironwill Gym:
https://forum.bodybuilding.com/showpost.php?p=629719403&postcount=3388
Ironwill2008 Journal:
https://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=157459343&p=1145168733
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07-30-2013, 07:44 AM #16
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07-30-2013, 07:57 AM #17
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07-30-2013, 08:02 AM #18
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07-31-2013, 10:41 PM #19
I'm glad my assumption was at least partly correct. I figured that like anything else in life there are pros at whatever because they have something passed on to them (parents....i.e. genetics), their science based knowledge and desire to endure. I guess there is a fine line between the three depending on whom you are talking to.
As for supplements I will stay with food as I have read on here (a lot of your post) that food is what matters most to anyone from the bottom to the top level and supplements should only be taken when needed and I believe that I can get everything I need from food for now.
When I do get to the point of needing supplementation I will for sure start a thread and I hope you will be the first to comment.
As for programs to use I can understand now that any program will work for me for a while as it will be more than I was doing before hand.
I spent three hours last night thumbing through your old post and the tons of advice you have given over the last few years to countless people like myself that have no clue.
You said "you will find out who does and whom does not know their stuff".
Well, I can already tell you are one of those that know their stuff and I will be hanging on to every word you type so by all means please comment anytime you see a thread by me.
BTW, someone told me today that I should put a picture of myself on here. Is that really necessary? If so, I will put one up even though I am to say the least embarrassed as to how I have let myself go over the years.
Fat and bad health in general creeps up on us all if we allow it and I for one have allowed it. I knew I was out of shape in general but did not know just how bad until I started looking around on here. I have seen people my age and older that look very well for their age or any age for that matter (you being one of them).
On behalf of all the newbs (as everyone calls them on here) like myself I say thank you for taking the time to go into such detail.
Ray
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07-31-2013, 10:44 PM #20
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07-31-2013, 10:46 PM #21
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07-31-2013, 10:48 PM #22
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07-31-2013, 11:25 PM #23
As a fellow n00b and middle-aged fatso, here is my simplified take on the key stuff. If it's wrong it will be good for me to be corrected, so...
To get the nutrition side of things underway, you are going to need to get some digital kitchen scales, and you are going to need to start weighing everything you eat (unless it's got a label on it with the weight already there for you.) You will be tracking two main things: (1) total calories and (2) protein. Total calories are to be kept under a certain level, say 1900 cal/day. For protein you will need to aim for a minimum amount that's approx. 1g per lb of your lean body weight, ie about 150g. You will probably track your fat and carb intake as well but it is not as important since you are, in real life, going to get a bit of both every day. I do all this tracking with myfitnesspal but there are other options too. Eat vegetables every day.
For exercise, you need to first work out what your genuine possible schedule is. At a minimum, an hour at a time three days a week. More is better but be realistic. Pick a weights program that will work with that schedule. Do a wee bit of cardio to warm up, eg just 2-3 minutes on an exercise bike. If you have time to exercise on an "off" day, don't be tempted to do an extra weights day just do some light cardio that day. Your sense of the right program will get MUCH stronger after just a couple of weeks as you will be getting to know your body like you haven't known it for years if ever.
If you are honestly counting calories and protein, and exercising consistently, then you will quickly know whether you are losing weight. If you aren't, you need to knock another 100cal off your daily calorie limit. Same again next week. That is all you need to do to lose your excess weight. Don't go overboard with calorie deficit as there is just no point; slow and steady wins this race.
This is my basic understanding distilled from my reading and my experience over the last couple of months, starting pretty much where you are starting. I know it is a simplistic version of things but I think it is good enough to get you started while you learn more of the complexities. I've lost about 5kg so far, so I am by no means a proven success but I am feeling pretty hopeful I can keep it up.
As I said at the start if any of the lifers in here want to correct the above, no need to flame me as I will appreciate being set straight for my own benefit too.
As for the photo... I HATE the photo I have on here. I hate it every time I see it, but I find it motivates me a bit. I will only feel okay about this photo when there's an "after" shot next to it. What you should do is at least make sure you get a few shots now so you can put them up in six months next to the lean, muscular ones
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07-31-2013, 11:25 PM #24
Thanks to everyone that took the time to comment.
Here is what I have gathered so far from my research on here in just three hours last night. I know it is common knowledge to all of you but it was a real eye opener for me:
Food is the one thing that will make or break you meeting a goal no matter which program you use, the supplements you take or how hard you work out. Without the right foods in the correct amounts working out will produce little to no results.
I'm going to use the sample routine that ironwill suggested.
I also read that very, very long read about diet by emma.
I weigh 219 lbs @30ish % body fat maybe even higher. The body fat was just a guess made by my doctor so it could very well be 35% or so and most likely is as I have skinny legs, arms etc..etc... but have a large belly.
What do you people think of this for a starting point for my diet?
150 grams of protein = 600 calories
130 grams of fat = 1170 calories
150 grams of carbs = 600 calories
total calories = 2370 or as close as I can get on a daily basis and then evaluate after a few weeks and then add or take away as needed in 200 to 300 increments.
All protein will be baked, boiled or grilled chicken, fish and eggs (not counting what protein I will get in veggies).
All fat will come in the meat/eggs I eat and then add olive oil, fish oils and flax to make up the difference.
All carbs will come from green beans, leafy salads, sweet potatoes and the like.
I have always drank a lot of soda and coffee but starting this morning I am only drinking two cups of coffee (black) in and the rest of my fluids will be tap water. I'm going to try to consume a gallon of water every day. That will be more water than I use to drink in a week. I use to drink 2 to 3 cases of mountain dew a week and at least two pots of coffee every morning with cream and sugar so that should make a difference by it self.
If what I have planned is off I'm open to any and all advice.
Ray
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07-31-2013, 11:51 PM #25
We are similar other than I think you are more proportional than I and your a bit younger.
Thanks for sharing your personal experience and from what I have read I believe you are right or at least close but as you stated if not someone will come along and correct both of us. That's a good thing and one of the reason I am here.
I'm here to learn how to better myself for me and my family as I have worked far to hard only to die off early and not be able to enjoy the good times and things in life we earn.
Ray
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08-01-2013, 07:18 AM #26
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08-01-2013, 07:20 AM #27
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08-01-2013, 07:21 AM #28
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08-01-2013, 08:06 AM #29
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08-01-2013, 01:37 PM #30
Hi Ray,
I'll just add a little advice from personal experience of the mistakes I made(started serious training age 50):
1. Before you load certain exercises like squat with a barbell, have decent form unloaded.
Thus be able to do flatfooted squats sitting right down on your calves while inhaling, power back up while exhaling. You develop the necessary flexibility by squatting to a chair(years of practice), coffee table etc.
Get good at that for reps, say 20-40 in perfect form without effort.
Then you can load the exercise using a barbell.
2. Start addressing postural issues like head forward/protracted shoulder blades right now. That prevents you getting good thoracic extension when you press overhead. And causes all kind of shoulder problems.
Same with anterior pelvic tilt, common in those of us who work seated. That makes our lumbar spine become too arched during squats and deadlifts etc. And makes our tight lumbars take much of the load that should be handled by the very powerful glutes and hamstrings.
3. Remember that joint tissues like cartilage and ligaments, and also tendons, are white tissue for a reason: much less vascular vs muscles. So low rep sets, while great for strength, don't pump enough blood into them worth a damn. So whether you do low reps or not(I do all the time on 5 3 1), do plenty of high rep work.
I trashed my joints, in the first year serious training, by doing a ton of progressively heavier low rep work while neglecting high rep work assistance work for balance and joint conditioning etc.
4. Single joint exercises should be done for high reps anyway.
5. A good program is simple, based on big exercises like squat, dead, bench/incline, press, row, clean, curl. And has built in progression so you get MUCH stronger for reps over a long time.
And it should have added high rep assistance work for balance, like the very underrated facepulls. My feet and ankles don't give me anything like as much trouble now that I do plenty of high rep calf raises.
Think in terms of getting progressively stronger for reps for big exercises over the next few years. I'm still thinking like that, the quest goes on.
6. Many of the problems of age are due to sedentary lifestyle, and somewhat reversible by weight training.
I missed my prime in my forties(illness, went down to 130lbs). Feel like I'm in my prime now, since am way more muscular, vastly stronger, and fitter(heart rate in the mid fifties) in spite of all the training mistakes(that you don't have to make).
7. Never train to real failure. Literally millions of Powerlifters build lots of muscle and great strength while avoiding failure like the plague. They save all-out failure for the lifting platform. Same for literally millions of Weightlifters the World over. Training to failure is a great way to injure yourself/burn out/regress.
8. Most of the popular beginner routines are designed for young, skinny, teenagers who have tremendous resilience and recovery. So they might be asked to squat three times a week, which is actually unnecessary even for young guys.
This program is designed for the same demographic, but it is vastly better for a much wider age range, say up to age seventy, if sixty is anything to go by:
http://articles.elitefts.com/trainin...-and-strength/
It will give you an idea of what a good program will look like, with everything needed to become much stronger. And none of the fluff that distracts most guys from becoming more awesome.
9. Muscle pain is no big deal. I get lots of DOMS(delayed onset of muscle soreness) from some movements.
Joint pain is telling you that you are doing something wrong. Always get your reps in decent form. If the next rep ain't going up in decent form, terminate the set.
If a particular exercise hurts your shoulders, elbows, knees, fixing form often cures the problem. If that doesn't work, adjusting to a different variation of the exercise to suit your structure usually does the business.
Lift well and prosper.Last edited by jgreystoke; 08-01-2013 at 01:43 PM.
Beginners:
FIERCE 5:
http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=159678631
Beyond novice, 5 3 1 or see above:)
Unless it is obvious to anyone who isn't blind that you lift weights, you might still benefit from a little more attention to big basic barbell exercises for enough reps:).
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