Too much protein - interesting argument...

[corpfan]

Over the last month or so, I upped my protein from 170g per day to 210g or so...

My muscle:fat loss ratio has taken a turn for the worse over this time...


I was discussing this with a nutritionist at the gym and he gave an interesting argument...

His suggestion was to LOWER protein. He said, you have convinced your body you are going to keep giving it excess protein, so it is deciding to use more muscle as a fuel because it knows it will keep getting more every day. Therefore, instead of burning mostly fat, it is also burning muscle.

I mentioned this to my trainer and he suggested doing some "staggering" of my macros to confuse the body, but he did not agree that raising the protein amount was the cause of the problem.

Any ideas?

[edai]

I recommend Orange Traid OP, just keep lifting heavy and you'll be there in no time.

[PBateman2]

His suggestion was to LOWER protein. He said, you have convinced your body you are going to keep giving it excess protein, so it is deciding to use more muscle as a fuel because it knows it will keep getting more every day. Therefore, instead of burning mostly fat, it is also burning muscle.

LOL. Just my initial response. Especially "so it is deciding to use more muscle as a fuel because it knows it will keep getting more every day."


His second suggestion I do agree. Essentially staggering macros but more specifically calorie/carb cycling.

[corpfan]

Huh?

What does it have to do with a multivitamin?

I recommend Orange Traid OP, just keep lifting heavy and you'll be there in no time.

[corpfan]

Ya - from everything I have read and learned, the staggering idea from the trainer makes more sense than the cut protein from the nutritionist.

But, I thought the argument was interesting because it is something I have never heard before...

LOL. Just my initial response. Especially "so it is deciding to use more muscle as a fuel because it knows it will keep getting more every day."


His second suggestion I do agree. Essentially staggering macros but more specifically calorie/carb cycling.

[FemmeFatale28]

Ya - from everything I have read and learned, the staggering idea from the trainer makes more sense than the cut protein from the nutritionist.

But, I thought the argument was interesting because it is something I have never heard before...

You and me both, thats (almost) the most absurd thing Ive heard yet. Soo if thats the case I should eat 50f/25c/25p so my body will burn fat because it knows that it will get more everyday Sounds great. Nobel Peace Prize here I come, Ive just found the "magic trick" to losing fat

[kusok]

wat


taking into account your stats you should UP your protein if your results have slowed, not decrease it...

Your results have slowed for obvious reasons, results ALWAYS slow after you started something, it worked for about 6 weeks, then started to slow down as you made progress and your body made adjustments.
Results slowing due to eating "high" protein is really LOL especially considering we're talking about a 269lbs guy on 200 grams protein. If I was you I'd UP that to 270 grams at the very least.

[scump]

his protein intake is fine... your problem is this, nutritionist that, trainer this... think less man.

shut up, eat, lift, rest...gain.

that arguement is BS think about what femme said... its a total spewing of bro logic (hey it sounds like it makes sense, it has to be right huh)

how about this though, since you increased your protein intake your body is oxidising less fat as its oxidising more amino acids?

dude i read your profile, 210 is too high for you anyway, do some staggering as i love that strat, but decrease your protein intake from 210 anyway, think about your goal... massive protein wont assist that, calories are calories bro.

[corpfan]

Well...I will fill in some blanks and maybe can give me some direction...

I started a new lifestyle at the end of November.

I was 310 lbs - 41.6% BF.

In 3 months, I lost 30 lbs - according to my calculations, 21lbs fat, 9 lbs lbm. Not a great ratio - 7:3. I imagine some was water loss, some was connective tissue, etc... so I wasn't too worried, so I wanted to improve the ratio and keep things going.

Over the last 2.5 months, I upped my protein from 170g to 210g and lowered my caloric intake from 2400 to 2100. So, I changed my Macro percentages around. I lost 15 lbs - but according to my calculations, 8lbs fat, 7lbs lbm - about a 5:5 ratio...per 10 lbs. Not great at all.

I am lifting with my trainer 3 days a week followed by 20 mins on the stationary bike 2/3 of those days right after weights. I also "try" to do 1 day per week of HIIT on the bike for 55 mins.


Right now, I am at 265 lbs (98fat, 167lbm) - 37% BF. I have lost 45 lbs.

My goal is to get down to 200 lbs with 20% BF. So, I would like to lose 58lbs of fat to reach my goal. Hopefully, I lose as little lbm as possible over that trek.


Suggestions?


I have been aiming at 40% protein (210g), 40% carbs (210g), 20% fat (46g). Before I was at 30% protein (170-180g), 50% carbs and 20% fat.

Thanks!

[svillasenor]

What is your routine looking like? Cardio? How much. Ect.

Well...I will fill in some blanks and maybe can give me some direction...

I started a new lifestyle at the end of November.

I was 310 lbs - 41.6% BF.

In 3 months, I lost 30 lbs - according to my calculations, 21lbs fat, 9 lbs lbm. Not a great ratio - 7:3. I imagine some was water loss, some was connective tissue, etc... so I wasn't too worried, so I wanted to improve the ratio and keep things going.

Over the last 2.5 months, I upped my protein from 170g to 210g and lowered my caloric intake from 2400 to 2100. So, I changed my Macro percentages around. I lost 15 lbs - but according to my calculations, 8lbs fat, 7lbs lbm - about a 5:5 ratio...per 10 lbs. Not great at all.

I am lifting with my trainer 3 days a week followed by 20 mins on the stationary bike 2/3 of those days right after weights. I also "try" to do 1 day per week of HIIT on the bike for 55 mins.


Right now, I am at 265 lbs (98fat, 167lbm) - 37% BF. I have lost 45 lbs.

My goal is to get down to 200 lbs with 20% BF. So, I would like to lose 58lbs of fat to reach my goal. Hopefully, I lose as little lbm as possible over that trek.


Suggestions?



I have been aiming at 40% protein (210g), 40% carbs (210g), 20% fat (46g). Before I was at 30% protein (170-180g), 50% carbs and 20% fat.

Thanks!

[corpfan]

Mon/Tues/Thurs - 1 hr strength training and circuit training with Personal Trainer, followed by about 20 minutes on stationary bike 2/3 of those days

One other day - usually Fri or Sat - 55 mins Cardio (HIIT on stationary bike)

[taffer]

I'd say your losing more muscle because you are eating less in total, not because of the macro's. That protein story just sounds stupid.... especially because protein isnt muscle (not directly anyway) If your carbs were low.... and you made them lower when you raised your protein that would make your body burn some muscle as energy, so maybe trying going back to 2400cal with more carbs (why you changed something that was working, i dont understand)
The second statement about "confusing" your body made me laugh
Also I doubt you can do 55mins of HIIT if you do it properly

[jorgerod]

Well...I will fill in some blanks and maybe can give me some direction...

I started a new lifestyle at the end of November.

I was 310 lbs - 41.6% BF.

In 3 months, I lost 30 lbs - according to my calculations, 21lbs fat, 9 lbs lbm. Not a great ratio - 7:3. I imagine some was water loss, some was connective tissue, etc... so I wasn't too worried, so I wanted to improve the ratio and keep things going.

Over the last 2.5 months, I upped my protein from 170g to 210g and lowered my caloric intake from 2400 to 2100. So, I changed my Macro percentages around. I lost 15 lbs - but according to my calculations, 8lbs fat, 7lbs lbm - about a 5:5 ratio...per 10 lbs. Not great at all.

I am lifting with my trainer 3 days a week followed by 20 mins on the stationary bike 2/3 of those days right after weights. I also "try" to do 1 day per week of HIIT on the bike for 55 mins.


Right now, I am at 265 lbs (98fat, 167lbm) - 37% BF. I have lost 45 lbs.

My goal is to get down to 200 lbs with 20% BF. So, I would like to lose 58lbs of fat to reach my goal. Hopefully, I lose as little lbm as possible over that trek.


Suggestions?


I have been aiming at 40% protein (210g), 40% carbs (210g), 20% fat (46g). Before I was at 30% protein (170-180g), 50% carbs and 20% fat.

Thanks!

Been there, gone through that.(was 370, now I'm at 248 and coming down) I'ts not about the body knowing you will give him more. It's abut the body balancing itself in terms what you consume and what you expend. Call it a Plateau effect but in weight loss instead of mass gain. You need to up your intensity or lower your intake or maybe both which is what your trainer is taking about.

Jorge

[SwiftyX]

How are you even sure over the course of a month what your muscle:fatloss ratio is? There is no testing method you can be using regularly with enough precision for you to even be worrying about this.

Most BF% measuring techniques (especially anything easily doable at home or the such) are fraught with inaccuracy and potential for human error.

[snorkelman]

Interesting arguments are the foundation for bro-science.

[jaklcrow]

i dont know what the deal with nutritionists and protein is. I have take 2 different nutrition classes in college and both teachers swore that even a serious bodybuilder needs a "MAX" of 20g of protein a day, and any more is just overkill..... up the intake OP, you should def be getting more not less

[MasonMatlock]

The burning on muscles to create energy is really a last resort for the body... I would do your research before taking what was said to you to heart.

[corpfan]

Although the handheld BF monitor may not be 100% accurate is pretty consistent.

I have the Omron HBF-306 - it has very good reviews and is the one used at the gym for fitness testing.

http://www.amazon.com/Omron-HBF-306-.../dp/B00006WNPU

I think it is pretty good at identifying change that occurs. For example, if I use it and then drink a glass of water and then test again, it usually adjusts the reading by about .1 or .2%...which makes sense.

If I try it 10 times in a row at any given time, it is rarely off by more than .1%.

How are you even sure over the course of a month what your muscle:fatloss ratio is? There is no testing method you can be using regularly with enough precision for you to even be worrying about this.

Most BF% measuring techniques (especially anything easily doable at home or the such) are fraught with inaccuracy and potential for human error.

[corpfan]

The reason I made some changes is that, although I was losing weight, the ratio was not great...

7lbs fat : 3lbs LBM


I wanted to get the ratio better. So, I took the advice of many on the forum and also my trainer, who suggested to lower the calories, and up the protein.

Was on 50%C/30%P/20%F to start.

Wanted to get to 40/40/20 or so.


The change (lowering calories by 300) and increasing total protein has seemed to make the ratio even worse.

So, I am going to try to keep the protein up, but go back to 2400 calories.

I really don't care "how fast" I lose the weight, would just like to maintain muscle to avoid plateaus and increase gains in improving body fat%. Also, cause I heard it is VERY difficult to add muscle later on...much easier to maintain it now.

I'd say your losing more muscle because you are eating less in total, not because of the macro's. That protein story just sounds stupid.... especially because protein isnt muscle (not directly anyway) If your carbs were low.... and you made them lower when you raised your protein that would make your body burn some muscle as energy, so maybe trying going back to 2400cal with more carbs (why you changed something that was working, i dont understand)
The second statement about "confusing" your body made me laugh
Also I doubt you can do 55mins of HIIT if you do it properly

[On Fire]

Also, cause I heard it is VERY difficult to add muscle later on...much easier to maintain it now.

Not really the truth. The guys who have trouble gaining muscle have trouble gaining weight because they can't seem to figure out that they need to eat to do so. You clearly don't have this problem.

If I were you, I'd put all emphasis on getting the weight off right now. You'll find the biggest benefit once you're down another 100 pounds or so.